Physical Skill bonuses and Martial Art Forms

[thorr-kan]

In general, the bonuses from Physical Skills stack with the bonuses from Martial Art Forms. But MAFs are pretty specific about what combat skills they grant. Take Pao Chih (Mystic China): it only grants Dodge and Roll with punch/fall/impact.

But if a Physical Skill grants a Combat Ability, doesn't a MAF get that? For example, some versions of Gymnastics and Acrobatics give a kick. I just can't find the citation for it.

But more interestingly, if a Physical Skill grants a bonus to a Combat Ability an MAF does not have, does that MAF now have the Combat Ability? For example, some versions of Athletics (General) give a bonus to strike with a body block/tackle or a bonus to kicking damage. In the example above, does this user of Pao Chih now have body block/tackle and kick as Combat Abilities?

[green.nova343]

Remember to check the MAF descriptions. A lot of them will list actions that don't necessarily get a bonus, or don't get bonuses until a higher level...but they can still perform them.

Aikido might be one of the few that actually would have a limitation like that. Note that while its sole hand attack (Knife Hand KO) does no damage & can only be used on a target that you already have in a Joint Lock, it uses a Strike roll...even though the form itself has no bonuses to strike. But your natural PP bonuses would apply...so someone who took Boxing would still get the strike bonus.

[Soldier of Od]

My take on this is that, just like if you have more than one martial art forms, all attack moves are separate.
If you get a kick attack from having gymnastics, you can kick, but your bonuses to strike from your martial art form(s) will not count towards this kick attack (P.P. bonuses would).
If you get a body-block attack from having athletics, and that provides a bonus of +1 to strike with said body block attack, if your martial art form does not include a body-block, then you just get the strike bonus from athletics. But, if you already get a body-block move as part of your martial art form, then I would add the +1 bonus from athletics to that.

[thorr-kan]

My take on this is that, just like if you have more than one martial art forms, all attack moves are separate.

Except Physical skills specifically stack with MAFs.

[Soldier of Od]

My take on this is that, just like if you have more than one martial art forms, all attack moves are separate.

Except Physical skills specifically stack with MAFs.

Sorry, I am confused - if you are already sure of that, then what is your original question?

[green.nova343]

I think that he's not talking about a situation involving the bonuses for the specific attack move, but rather whether the specific move is even available.

Granted, he specifically mentioned Acrobatics and Gymnastics. Personally, I can't find a version of either skill that automatically provides a Kick attack with that skill (& even the mention of using the leap distance in Gymnastics heavily implies that they can only use it to attack if they already have a Leap Attack option available).

However...Wrestling does provide some additional attack moves that do damage or have a specific effect (Pin/Incapacitate, Crush/Squeeze, & Body Block/Tackle). Since bonuses from physical skills stack with MA form bonuses (just like PP bonuses), there's nothing wrong with using those moves in conjunction with any MA form your character knows. And I would say that, barring specific bonuses, generic bonuses would also apply (i.e. a strike bonus would apply to Body Block/Tackle).

[thorr-kan]

I think that he's not talking about a situation involving the bonuses for the specific attack move, but rather whether the specific move is even available.

HU2E,R:
Acrobatics: Automatic kick attack at first level; 2D4 damage.
Gymnastics: Automatic kick attack at first level; 2D4 damage.
BTS2:
Acrobatics: Automatic kick attack at first level; 1D8 damage.
Gymnastics: Automatic kick attack at first level; 2D4 damage.
DR:
Acrobatics: Automatic kick attack at first level; 1D8 damage.
Gymnastics: Automatic kick attack at first level; 2D4 damage.
NB:
Acrobatics: Automatic kick attack at first level; 1D8 damage.
Gymnastics: Automatic kick attack at first level; 2D4 damage.

And then there's all the kicks granted by the Kickboxing skill.

[green.nova343]

So...basically, all that does is allow someone without any HTH training to get a Kick attack or someone with a generic HTH skill to get the Kick (2D4 or 1D8 SDC) attack at 1st level instead of a higher level, assuming it's even an issue:

• HU2: Basic & Martial Arts get it @ 3rd level, Expert gets it @ 5th level, Assassin gets it @ 9th level
• DR, BTS2, RUE, TSC: all 5 (Basic, Expert, Martial Arts, Assassin, & Commando) already get Kick (1D8 SDC) @ 1st level
• NB: untrained automatically get Kick (1D4), Basic gets Kick (1d6) @ 3rd, Expert gets Kick (1D6) @ 5th, Martial Arts gets Karate Kick (1d8) @ 3rd, Assassin has Kick (1d6) @ 1st

So the "automatic kick" you gain from those skills is actually a non-issue for anyone in DR or BTS2 that has HTH training (since they already get that same attack). And while in other settings there might be some benefit, I would imagine that if you're going to combine settings it would probably be best to use the most up-to-date descriptions for the skills (not to mention the available skill lists)...which means that the "free" Kick (1d8/2d4) @ 1st level really only helps those without any kind of HTH training...or possibly if you're adapting certain martial arts from N&SS (Tsien-Hsueh Touch Mastery, for example, does not teach any Foot/Kick attacks at all), but even in those cases the addition of a simple Kick (1d8/2d4) option to their existing options isn't going to overly unbalance it (particularly since so many of those martial art forms have so many other Kick attacks to utilize as well).