how would one consecrate a graveyard/cemetary for safe cauldron spilling?
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how would one consecrate a graveyard/cemetary for safe cauldron spilling?
PF2pg 106 (right column) "The Enchanted Cauldron" of a wizard can only be safely spilled in a graveyard (top of column) or cemetary (bottom of column) or else you get ghosts (haunting entities) released as a nuisance. This happens if there's accidental spillage of only three of the six pints of blood (half of it)
That begs the question of how we go about defining what a graveyard or cemetary is. Is it anywhere there's a corpse buried? How close does the blood need to fall to a corpse? Does a priest need to lay them to rest with prayer? What's the radius?
This lead me to look for other uses of the term in the book:
pg 28 (phobia) "Graveyards/Tombs/Burial Mounds"
pg 66 (exorcism) "A successful exorcism performed in an area such as a graveyard, tomb, etc., will destroy all animated skeletons, corpses, and mummies which inhabit the area"
pg 212 (create zombie) "must be done secretly in a graveyard, burial place or battlefield littered with bodies"
There's various blessings/prayers on page 65 so I'm wondering if we could just borrow something there in terms of defining what creates a graveyard/cemetary assuming there's some level of supernatural component of it which creates that whole "cauldron-safe" status.
Blessings take 15 seconds to do and last 2D4 weeks for example and one of the uses is "blessings of a home" which keeps ghosts/fairies out. There isn't exactly a radius/range listed. If we want a longer effect, Exorcism takes 1D6 hours to perform but the effects last 6 months, but this is still lacking stuff like "area effect" or "range".
I notice this happens a lot for priests, like Turn Dead doesn't have a range either, just an activation time of 30 seconds. The spell Turn Dead is 60ft so I figure just use that... and similarly the Exorcism spell is 30ft so maybe use that for the priest ability too?
Priests aside I figure any mage who knows spells like these (Exorcism or Turn Dead) or even a non-mage with a scroll allowing these spells, could also use them to effectively consegrate a grave site after burying a corpse, and we can handwaive that as "hey you created a temporary cemetary"
I feel like we do need time limits and area limits and PPE costs though because otherwise you eventually encounter problems like "literally everywhere is a cemetary" because 10,000 years ago a rat died and became part of the mineral composition of the soil your cornfield is planted on.
That begs the question of how we go about defining what a graveyard or cemetary is. Is it anywhere there's a corpse buried? How close does the blood need to fall to a corpse? Does a priest need to lay them to rest with prayer? What's the radius?
This lead me to look for other uses of the term in the book:
pg 28 (phobia) "Graveyards/Tombs/Burial Mounds"
pg 66 (exorcism) "A successful exorcism performed in an area such as a graveyard, tomb, etc., will destroy all animated skeletons, corpses, and mummies which inhabit the area"
pg 212 (create zombie) "must be done secretly in a graveyard, burial place or battlefield littered with bodies"
There's various blessings/prayers on page 65 so I'm wondering if we could just borrow something there in terms of defining what creates a graveyard/cemetary assuming there's some level of supernatural component of it which creates that whole "cauldron-safe" status.
Blessings take 15 seconds to do and last 2D4 weeks for example and one of the uses is "blessings of a home" which keeps ghosts/fairies out. There isn't exactly a radius/range listed. If we want a longer effect, Exorcism takes 1D6 hours to perform but the effects last 6 months, but this is still lacking stuff like "area effect" or "range".
I notice this happens a lot for priests, like Turn Dead doesn't have a range either, just an activation time of 30 seconds. The spell Turn Dead is 60ft so I figure just use that... and similarly the Exorcism spell is 30ft so maybe use that for the priest ability too?
Priests aside I figure any mage who knows spells like these (Exorcism or Turn Dead) or even a non-mage with a scroll allowing these spells, could also use them to effectively consegrate a grave site after burying a corpse, and we can handwaive that as "hey you created a temporary cemetary"
I feel like we do need time limits and area limits and PPE costs though because otherwise you eventually encounter problems like "literally everywhere is a cemetary" because 10,000 years ago a rat died and became part of the mineral composition of the soil your cornfield is planted on.
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Re: how would one consecrate a graveyard/cemetary for safe cauldron spilling?
The Megaverse runs on vibes.
That said, I would classify a graveyard as a place where multiple people are buried on purpose, with a degree of respect, often with religious ritual. A rat died 10,000 years ago, no. A crossroads where someone is buried as a punishment? No. A place where a bandit died a month ago? No. A place where people bury their dead pets? Yeah (though it pushes "people" a bit).
That said, I would classify a graveyard as a place where multiple people are buried on purpose, with a degree of respect, often with religious ritual. A rat died 10,000 years ago, no. A crossroads where someone is buried as a punishment? No. A place where a bandit died a month ago? No. A place where people bury their dead pets? Yeah (though it pushes "people" a bit).
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Re: how would one consecrate a graveyard/cemetary for safe cauldron spilling?
It takes more than just a buried corpse or three to make a graveyard. Graveyards are more than just a place where the dead are buried. They are essentially considered an extension of a church, both from a real estate point of view as well as a spiritual one, specifically constructed for the purpose of properly interring the dead of the faithful.
Of course graveyards aren't just fenced in fields of headstones and actually come in a variety of styles from classic walled fields to miles of underground vaults to huge, monolithic structures ( the Pyramids of Giza are burial sites, ie 'graveyards').
So how does one 'consecrate' a graveyard? I imagine it would be much like the consecration of a church once construction of the site is complete. Priest in charge with a few lackey priests behind him making speeches and spouting nonsense about pride in the people and honoring the gods and remembering the fallen and faithful. Then, once somebody of the church dies.... Plant them in it.
Of course graveyards aren't just fenced in fields of headstones and actually come in a variety of styles from classic walled fields to miles of underground vaults to huge, monolithic structures ( the Pyramids of Giza are burial sites, ie 'graveyards').
So how does one 'consecrate' a graveyard? I imagine it would be much like the consecration of a church once construction of the site is complete. Priest in charge with a few lackey priests behind him making speeches and spouting nonsense about pride in the people and honoring the gods and remembering the fallen and faithful. Then, once somebody of the church dies.... Plant them in it.
Sure, lions and tigers are stronger...
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Re: how would one consecrate a graveyard/cemetary for safe cauldron spilling?
Priests of the Church of light get access to a miracle of consecration which consecrates the temple.
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Re: how would one consecrate a graveyard/cemetary for safe cauldron spilling?
From what I've found online, graveyards are generally found in conjunction with a church (tend to be the smaller, local types, but you could also have a larger church or even a cathedral be part of one), while cemeteries are stand-alone entities (despite many times having a chapel or similar building on site, said chapel is reserved for use with graveside burial ceremonies as opposed to regular religious services). Of course, then you get into the nitpicking debates like, "What happens if a church gets bought by someone & turned into their personal residence, does the graveyard become a cemetery?"
Merriam-Webster page
Another word you may find is "necropolis", which basically straddle the line between cemetery & graveyard. They weren't part of a church, but they held religious significance & many times were the sites of annual rituals for the deceased. The Catacombs of Rome or the pyramids of Egypt would be examples of them.
As for whether they need to be consecrated...probably not. And I don't see anything about it having to be spilled onto an actual corpse, just that the blood has to be dumped within the graveyard/cemetery. But that could be a good hook for an adventure, where the mage tries this but the closest graveyard/cemetery has been abandoned for so long that no one is completely sure of where the graves are actually at...or where the actual boundaries are...
Merriam-Webster page
Another word you may find is "necropolis", which basically straddle the line between cemetery & graveyard. They weren't part of a church, but they held religious significance & many times were the sites of annual rituals for the deceased. The Catacombs of Rome or the pyramids of Egypt would be examples of them.
As for whether they need to be consecrated...probably not. And I don't see anything about it having to be spilled onto an actual corpse, just that the blood has to be dumped within the graveyard/cemetery. But that could be a good hook for an adventure, where the mage tries this but the closest graveyard/cemetery has been abandoned for so long that no one is completely sure of where the graves are actually at...or where the actual boundaries are...
Re: how would one consecrate a graveyard/cemetary for safe cauldron spilling?
Either way both terms get used so there would need to be some kind of common element, though if cemeteries are standalones then it'd beg the question if we had some non-PPE means of general acknowledgement of the dead (or even their presence en-masse) of somehow influencing how spilled entity-juice dissipates.green.nova343 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 11:46 pm From what I've found online, graveyards are generally found in conjunction with a church (tend to be the smaller, local types, but you could also have a larger church or even a cathedral be part of one), while cemeteries are stand-alone entities (despite many times having a chapel or similar building on site, said chapel is reserved for use with graveside burial ceremonies as opposed to regular religious services).
Necropolis is another term in D+G too that I didn't think to associate here...130 uses it w/ Tolmet but that's the only place I could find it.green.nova343 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 11:46 pm Another word you may find is "necropolis", which basically straddle the line between cemetery & graveyard. They weren't part of a church, but they held religious significance & many times were the sites of annual rituals for the deceased. The Catacombs of Rome or the pyramids of Egypt would be examples of them.
Yeah but players could inevitably think "wait, we're murder hobos, let's just toss that pair of vagrants we looted last week in this new nearby latrine and then dump the cauldron in there" which made me wonder how the term could metaphysically be defined.green.nova343 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 11:46 pm As for whether they need to be consecrated...probably not. And I don't see anything about it having to be spilled onto an actual corpse, just that the blood has to be dumped within the graveyard/cemetery. But that could be a good hook for an adventure, where the mage tries this but the closest graveyard/cemetery has been abandoned for so long that no one is completely sure of where the graves are actually at...or where the actual boundaries are...
found on page 136 of Dragons and Gods, only lasting 1 day per level doesn't seem to match the duration one would expect a graveyard unless a priest is coming out every week (funeral or otherwise) to top up the enchantment?
Reading how that works brings up a whole other inquiry of a similar nature - there 1day/level becomes permanent if "done in a temple" or "if a temple is built on consecrated ground" though... but what counts as building a temple? Can I just pitch a tent? Does it need to be made out of something sturdy? Can I just dig a bunker? Bury a possum in a pothole?
Re: how would one consecrate a graveyard/cemetary for safe cauldron spilling?
One of my house rules
Consecration/Desecration requires a minimum number of priests doing a minimum of a 6 hr ceremony.
The strength of the consecration is related to the number of priests and the length of time done, and what is sacrificed during the ceremony and at what time the ceremony finishes.
for example
12 Priests of RA Pray for 6 hours = 72 Consecration points
A bull is sacrificed + 6 consecration points
12 Sheaves of wheat are sacrificed for 3 consecration points.
Finishes at MIdday for +4 Consecration points
That consecrated ground now has a maximum pool of 85 consecration points
1 Consecration point is used per day to keep the consecration active
Needs at 85 hrs of prayer done upon the ground by the faithful per month to not use a consecration point
Note this will not restore consecration points, normally a new ceremony would need to be done which also isnt additive, but the new ceremony becomes the new pool, however if much larger amount of prayers are done per month it can slowly increase the pool.
Sacrifices however can restore the Consecration pool, but the larger the pool, the higher the cost of the sacrifice.
The maximum pool effects the effort needed to desecrate the consecrated ground.
The pool can also be used by the Clergy to do various prayer type effects, depending on the god.
Consecration/Desecration requires a minimum number of priests doing a minimum of a 6 hr ceremony.
The strength of the consecration is related to the number of priests and the length of time done, and what is sacrificed during the ceremony and at what time the ceremony finishes.
for example
12 Priests of RA Pray for 6 hours = 72 Consecration points
A bull is sacrificed + 6 consecration points
12 Sheaves of wheat are sacrificed for 3 consecration points.
Finishes at MIdday for +4 Consecration points
That consecrated ground now has a maximum pool of 85 consecration points
1 Consecration point is used per day to keep the consecration active
Needs at 85 hrs of prayer done upon the ground by the faithful per month to not use a consecration point
Note this will not restore consecration points, normally a new ceremony would need to be done which also isnt additive, but the new ceremony becomes the new pool, however if much larger amount of prayers are done per month it can slowly increase the pool.
Sacrifices however can restore the Consecration pool, but the larger the pool, the higher the cost of the sacrifice.
The maximum pool effects the effort needed to desecrate the consecrated ground.
The pool can also be used by the Clergy to do various prayer type effects, depending on the god.
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Re: how would one consecrate a graveyard/cemetary for safe cauldron spilling?
historically IRL it tended to run along the lines of:
clearly delineate the boundaries of the graveyard (this can be a fence, wall, a rope tied to stakes, just rows of of stakes or rocks, etc.. in more ancient times a ditch and/or berm was quite common.)
the erection of some clear marker of the special nature of the site (a church/shrine, a barrow, a carved stone or log marker, a grove of trees in a special shape, a specially shaped dirt mound, excarnation structures, or whatever fits the local traditions)
then purify the site by way of a religious/spiritual ritual conducted by the leader of the local faith. obviously the details and complexity of this would vary with the faith in question.
clearly delineate the boundaries of the graveyard (this can be a fence, wall, a rope tied to stakes, just rows of of stakes or rocks, etc.. in more ancient times a ditch and/or berm was quite common.)
the erection of some clear marker of the special nature of the site (a church/shrine, a barrow, a carved stone or log marker, a grove of trees in a special shape, a specially shaped dirt mound, excarnation structures, or whatever fits the local traditions)
then purify the site by way of a religious/spiritual ritual conducted by the leader of the local faith. obviously the details and complexity of this would vary with the faith in question.
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