"mini"-50

[Dustin Fireblade]

April 20, 2004: While 6.8mm is the hot new rifle round being promoted for next-generation American assault rifles, two companies are quietly promoting a "mini-50" .50 caliber (12.7mm) round as a supplement to currently rifle calibers. The mini-.50 would be used by special forces and law enforcement officers against re-enforced structures, vehicles, and advanced body armor. The U.S. Coast Guard has already bought a quantity of these weapons for use against "Go-fast" boats and some have reportedly appeared in Afghanistan.

To create the mini-.50, a .50 caliber bullet is put into a smaller casing (than the standard .50 round used in machine gun and long-range sniper rifles). The smaller casing trades off less propellant for softer recoil, less accuracy over longer distances, but less stress on the barrel and user. The recoil for the mini-.50 is described as being similar to a 12-gauge shotgun. It also makes for a weapon that is easier to carry and faster to employ than the full-sized .50 caliber rifle designs. The Barrett Light .50 M82A1 rifle employed by the U.S. Army and Marines weighs in at 28 lbs unloaded and is 57 inches long while a mini-50 weighs in at around 8-12 lbs loaded and a little over 36 inches long.

Like various 6.8mm projects, gun designers built a hybrid rifle using AR-15/M-16 designs to provide some compatibility with existing hardware. For example, a 30 round M-16 magazine will hold 12 of the fat mini-50 rounds. Conversion kits are available, for around $1600.
each, to convert an M-16 type rifle into one firing the mini-.50.

Portability and round penetration of the mini-50 family are the key traits to this weapons family. Armored glass that resists 7.62mm fire, yields to the mini-.50, as do doors, locks, and cinder blocks, and engine blocks. Since the rifle is only slightly longer and heavier than a 5.56mm design, it can be used in close range combat and other rapid fire encounters. Two Virginia companies are currently making mini-.50s, the Leitner-Wise Rifle Company in Alexandria (a stone's throw away from the Pentagon) and Alexander Arms, on space leased from Radford Arsenal. – Doug Mohney


This was posted at strategypage.com

[Jefffar]

I was reading up not long ago on the Coast Guard looking at a version of the M-16 chambered to fire a .50 Beowulf submachinegun round for short range anti-materiel purposes.

[Jefffar]

Yeah, the 5.7 pistol is publically available, but the P90 is still being carefully controlled by FN, making it nearly impossible to see in civilian hands.

[tsh77769]

That first article is poorly written and shows some inaccurate information.

The term "mini- fifty" seems to imply some relationship or similiarity between to standard .50 BMG and the Coast Guards either .499 Leitner Wise or .50 Beowulf, by Alexander Arms (I forget whcih, I think the later). In point of fact they are completely unrelated to the .50 BMG.

The comment regarding accuracy is assinine because it displays a lack of understanding of what accuracy entails and again seems to operate on an assumed relationship to the .50 BMG which they compare it to.

In regards to the 5.7x28mm, the HP ammunition and the pistol are both currently available, and 20rd mags should be soon. AP ammo however remains restricted as it is an AP pistol round (AP rifle ammunition is not restricted). The P90 is restricted due to the fact that it is select fire and no new civillian transferable guns can be made after May of 1986. Even were it semi only, it would still be a "Short Barrelled Rifle", having a barrell less than 16" or overall lenght less than 26", and this would require a $200 tax and paper work, finger prints, photos, registration, etc. Thus limiting the number of willing customes. So, this is NOT realted to an FN policy but issues of law. However, even were it able to reach a cvillian market according to law, FN would likely restrict it from civillian sales by company policy (often as encouraged by the government and is generally an effort by a given company at sucking up in order to increase the likelyhood of scoring government contracts).

For example, their aren't any lawas saying a US citizen can't have night vision, or thermal vision but, mostly with the later now days, many companies will not sell to civillians. This is the same with "Law Enforcement Only Ammo" in the case of non-AP pistol rounds. It is just company policy, there is no law against you having it and many people do.

BTW, I am highly trained in firearms combat and my friends include licensed arms dealers (machine guns and the works), including a regional FN distributor.

TSH77769

[tsh77769]

Nope very rarely. Only in gun related post and even then not always. In these two most recnt threads it was a palladium style cut and paste created repetition as this was actually the first post and the 5.7x28mm thread the second and I cut and pasted this into that.

Tsh77769

[tsh77769]

Actually neither. But my friends include both. I have done private surveilance work for an ex-cop friend of mine though. I have also done prototype testing for a gun maker once in the past (I have prototype #6 at home). Lastly I am investigating getting patents for some of my inventions, at least one of which has had interest expressed in it on the part of a major defense contractor.

My Aunt is with the Sheriff's Department in Pendleton Oregon. My Step Brother is a retired state cop in Arizona. My friends/associates include two Class III arms dealers including the regional FN distributor. My instructors include one of the aforementioned friends who is a full time professional firearms combat instructor. My other instructor is a full staff instructor for Gunsite of Arizona of fame, and is also in charge of training for APD's SWAT team. So I get lots of cool training opportunities. For example I shot 147 out of 150 on APD's MP5 SMG quall-course. I also have friends in related fields over-seas, including one foremer SWAT cop turned state department diplomat who encourages me to apply for the DSS (Diplomatic Security Service), and three friends who are Officers in the Finnish Defense Forces. I got to go on a base in Finnland with the Russian border in sight and shoot old captured Soviet guns. It rocked.

I was in college USAF ROTC but had to abort early after a murder attempt that I narrowly survived, and which resulted in 3 plates and 12 screws in my head and face.

I also am a strong self defense advocate and have helped teach self defense classes, including those geared toward women and people with physical disabilities. I am particualry proud of two specific cases in which I helped make a system (which worked very well) for and train two people with very challenging physical disabilites.

I've travelled to 22 countries on 4 continents.

Other than that I am just an English teacher.

[Svartalf]

I was reading up not long ago on the Coast Guard looking at a version of the M-16 chambered to fire a .50 Beowulf submachinegun round for short range anti-materiel purposes.

Yep, an ingenious idea too. They basically have taken the casing for 50. Action Express and stretched it. I am surprised none has done this before.

Although it delievers alot of Energy, F.P.E. I am wondering with it being a flat walled casing and not a bottle neck casing. What kind of trajectory it has, and what is its drop off in velocity.

Damn bad reference... could anybody tell me what's the main differences between .50 BMG, AE and Beowulf ammo? or maybe have a link to somewhere with decent comparison between the three?

[tsh77769]

.50 BMG is the biggest of the 3. It is used in heavy machine guns, ususally mounted on vehicles, and some heavy sniper rifles which are primarily anti-material rifles but sometimes get used on people.

.50 AE started life a pisto round specifically for the DE pistol.

.50 Beowulf is a rifle round based on a lengthened .50 AE round.

The BMG and the latter two cartridges use different bullets.

BTW, the latest development off of the .50 AE is the .502 Thunder Sabre. A .50 AE has a rebated rim with the same head size as the .44 Mag. On an AR15 bolt this leads to the bolt having to be opened up to far for comfort and leads to fragile breakage prone bolts. The .502 TS further rebates the rim to the same case head size as the 7.62x39mm thus alleviationg the aforementioned problem and also allowing it to be use dwith pre-exisiting off the shelf AR15 (athe AR15 is also available in 7.62x39mm) bolts.

Tromix is testing an M1 Carbine converted to .502 TS. If it goes to market, I plan to get one for wild animal defens while hiking and camping. It looks more PC than a converted hevy caliber AR or AK, and so you get maybe a little less crap from the freaking Granola crowd.

Tsh777769@hotmail.com

[GhostKnight]

How would a 300/338/375 ultra mag compare to this "Mini-50"?

[Jefffar]

How would a 300/338/375 ultra mag compare to this "Mini-50"?

Considering this is a heavy bullet in a (relatively) short case, I'd expect that those rounds would all be much more accurate at long range than this mini-50, which probably has a trajectory resembling a rainbow.

Recoil forces and punch are probably pretty similar. Should make a good close range weapon . . . if over penetration isn't a concern.