Would anyone like to see a new Mecha line?

[The Artist Formerly]

Yeah Palladium has been kicking around the idea for a while.

[Pro Munchy]

Immediately after they dropped the Robotech license, a few of us started voicing a desire for Palladium to look into a Gundam RPG for their MDC system. Although we didn't get a direct reply as such, it wasn't too long thereafter that Maryann (who was then still employed at Palladium) complained that Bandai wanted WAY too much money for that license.

That's a shame!

Although which Gundam series were they going to base it off?

[Pro Munchy]

Yeah, I remember those conversations. I also remember people, I was one of them, trying to say that PB shouldn't be going for a liscensed RPG but do something original. I even remember there were a few ideas for settings (I know I did one, probably still have it on one of my computers somewhere), including one where mecha were powered by singularities (not mine). Anyway, I would like to see a new original mecha game from PB and I hope that that personal weapons, power armor and mecha weapons do radically different amounts of damage, possibly on some sort of scale (for example: personal weapons do no more than 20 MD, PAs do no more than 75, and mecha average at about 100, with the odd and rare exceptions) instead of some of the nonsense weapon damage I've seen in Rifts.

I would second that on the damage thing and would hope they work out a better MDC for the larger you are the more MDC and strength comparble for size and weight too.

[Cyclone]

I was anti-Gundam (though that was because everybody was plugging for then goldern boy Wing) and favored a generic Palladium original mecha game to avoid the licensing issues. Still do, to the point I hope against hope that announced new games are it ("Void Runners? Mecha in space! yeh!")

[Pro Munchy]

How about FULL METAL PANIC

Mecha, anime...chicks with legs up to their necks...it's awesome. And it is a virtual unknown so the liscense cant cost that much...I hope.

Is that what the series is called, I have never heard of it .......hmmm

[Janus]

I would like to see a customizable giant robot RPG, akin to Armored Core. It would be easy to do and fun to boot. Easily adaptable to any of the existing games out now in the Palladium Megaverse. Well maybe not fantasy, but one can dream.

[Mike Taylor]

I'm not so much for customization in the face of the rampant munchkinism that Rifts seems to attract (sure, we stamp it out, but it keeps coming back). I'm more fond of generic battloid frames that can then carry different gun pods, armor packs, back packs, external boosters, etc etc..... which really is what we've been dealing already within Palladium's games as far as robots go, just not quite to the extent that I'd like it to be..

Ask me about the Soldier Power Armor I've been tweaking, Z.

[Shawn Merrow]

Did ADV release Eva? XD Wait, Eva would be a bad thing because every munchkin would want one and an AT-field.

Guardians of Order has Eva and will be releasing two books for it near future.

[Janus]

I would like to see a customizable giant robot RPG, akin to Armored Core. It would be easy to do and fun to boot. Easily adaptable to any of the existing games out now in the Palladium Megaverse. Well maybe not fantasy, but one can dream.

I'm not so much for customization in the face of the rampant munchkinism that Rifts seems to attract (sure, we stamp it out, but it keeps coming back). I'm more fond of generic battloid frames that can then carry different gun pods, armor packs, back packs, external boosters, etc etc..... which really is what we've been dealing already within Palladium's games as far as robots go, just not quite to the extent that I'd like it to be..

well you can only munchkin so far with this system as weight allowance has to be taken into consideration. So you can have a mech with the most powerful guns but he is basically a sitting duck. likewise a fast mech is not as heavily armed and armored. I always liked the comp game and often thought it would be fun for a RPG.

[Janus]

Then the GM needs to give a boot to the head to the munchkin. nO I am aware of rules lawyers being able to munchkin these things, but with weights and everything set in stone and other balancers, they would be a little hard pressed to muchkin their vehicle. Especially if you take away the rule sthat allow for the "benefits of Death" cheat that is in the game.

[Janus]

Well, munchkins tend to ignore some laws of physics. Munchkins also tend to ignore anything they said in the past that may effect them negatively in a current situation.

Well, smart munchkins tend to be rules lawyer munchkins, in which case they'll see your mecha weight limit and raise you a contragravity generator....

Now that would be a cool game element to have to deal with. I wonder which of the games Corporations would have come up with that. of course if there is no such device then rules munchkin or power munchkin it is not going to happen. Then boot to the head.

[Janus]

I really thought the contragravity device was your own creation to illustrate what a munchkin can think of. i would probably in that case ask the player where he got it from since, if you go by the games, he is working for a mercenary unit and they supply him with all the parts (of course he could have found it, but then the GM is just asking for it) he will use. Also even if made available I would say something like that is an expensive piece of tech and as the player is only getting some much credit to build, maintain, upggrade, repair, and rearm his core that he might not be able to afford it. However, if the game allowed for the advantages of death rule then there are always ways around the plain old human character type deal. I would say a game like this in the megaverse fi you follow how its storyline goes would take place after teh Choas Earth but before Rifts when man is really starting to rebuild and the Corporations start to take over as the government. It would explain how Narunii and Splugorth came to be in such power on a planet paranoid of outerspace invasion. it was just a thought. I liked the idea of having hundreds of parts that can be bought to upgrade a mech into any configuration necessary.

[Janus]

Yeah that is pretty much how it is designed. You get a core to which you can afix a set of legs a set of arms (either with hands to carry weapons or are weapons them selves) a head unit and then two places on the "shoulders" for additional weapons. Later games allowed for the actual shoulders to have auxillary devices ( I do not haver the books and notes I have in front of me to say what options they allow) The core itself depending on its size allowed for optional items to be used as internal enhancers. Generally they can have a weapon in the right hand and then a blade or shield (both energy) for the left. So really the game itself makes for keeping things simple and very defined this goes here that goes there and never shall the two mix that sort of thing. however if someone did want to munchkin themselves then that is certainly allowable. IN the first 5 games you went into debt like 10 times and you gained certain abilities that aided you in the game. With AC3 you hade to find these but only AFTER you beat the game in its entirety.

[Janus]

I like Palladiums KISS system as much as the next guy, but you have to admit being able to design any type of Mecha you want would rule. Thousands of fans for AC cannot be wrong.

[glitterboy2098]

before you start thinking of the mecha designs, you'd need to answer some setting question.

1) where is this set? is it earth, an earth like planet, or something else entirely?

2) what groups are involved, what are their politics and compositions?

3) what is the over-all tech like, per faction?

4) why are the groups fighting, or why are they preparing for a fight?


personally, i would go with an earth like planet, it allows freedom in that you can pick and choose what kinds of goverments and groups are involved, and avoids the issue of having to create a beleivable alternate timeline to explain how earth got that way. (still need a beleivable timeline, but you don't have to worry about allying the wrong nations or offending people by having their political and/or ethnic groups destroyed.)

as for the rest? would depend.

do the major powers have off world colonies? if yes, how do the colonies veiw the mother planet? are the nations at different technological levels, or merely different tech focuses? did they develop the tech themselves, or was it found and reverse enginnered? if found, who made it originally and are they still around? if they are, how do they feel about how the humans are using their tech?



and so on and so forth.


answer those, and you can start to figure out the feel of the mecha.

[The Artist Formerly]

So, we're all in agreement about a new Mecha game of some sort then?

Personally, I think that given the scope of such a game and levels of fire power invovled, a game that is only set on earth would kind of be limited (alright, who wants to trash Detroit again?). However, a Mecha game that spans lightyears apon lightyears seems to be, well someone else's intelectual property. But one that took place in Sol, with Earth, Mars, Luna, Phobos and Demios, as well as assorted satelites of the gas giants further out would be plausable for these kinds of combats, give a built in reason for this kind of combat, and a varity of nation states to fuel the fires of war with. For this kind of combat, significant resources (to build these giant death machines) and factionalism is the key for a good story.

[Sabre 1]

Definitly need a Palladium mecha game. I think going the way of BESM and Mekton would be good with a basic book detailing character & mecha design (and all related rules) and then having seperate setting books.

Sort of like what Heros Unlimited use to be in the old days.

[glitterboy2098]

GB: Those questions are indeed a good place to start. However, you seem to be making assumptions that should be questions to be answered as they have just as big of an impact on the game and its setting as your other questions. To me, the most important questions should be:

1. What's the role of the player group?

2. Are the part of an organization of some kind?

3. If they're not part of an organization then how did they get and maintain they're mecha? Alternatively, how does the organization they're apart of acquire and maintain their mecha?

SkyStreak: It sounds like you got plans for doing your own setting. If that's the case have fun, I've tried doing it myself and it ain't easy keeping things rolling.

those are questions you ask when creating the campaign. mine where for creating the SETTING.

and the questins later in my post where examples of how when you answer one question, a dozen more pop up, most of which need at least basic coverage.


and right now no actual plans, but being a fan of Mecha Anime i have a few different ideas.


(i actually developed a post invid war setting i could alter, made it when i heard of the new RT show HG was planning. it was a response to a thread on the RDF communicationcenter Messege board, but my comp crashed before i could post it. a grand setting with the space colonies in charge of rebuilding earth, only politics got the some of the worst people incharge, who play political games at the expense of the people of earth. the old resistance fighters turn "robinhood" on the reconstruction groups, stealing supplies to get them where needed. off world the colonies have no knowledge of how bad things are, and beleive the old resistance fighters to be terrorists, since thats what the media has pegged them as. the resistance groups need sopport, so they go to the sentinals races, and work at unveiling earths plight to the colonies. in the end the result is a Civil war as people find the truth and turn on there goverment. it ends with the war being stopped by an alien group moving to conquer human controlled space. with a few changes the basic setting could be used, and the Meta-plot can be hinted at. )



like i said, setting it on a earth like planet rather than earth itself would be easier as it would be less hassle.

all the terrain, goverments, people, ect. would be created entirely by you.

no need to explain how and why the various earth goverments are like they are. (for example, in a future/alternate earth, if you create an arabic aliance in the middile east, you'd have to explain why all those nations, who in reality hate each others guts, decided to work togeather. or if you bring back a nation along the Nazi germany lines, you'd have to explain why, ect. and the explanations would need at least the semblance of sense.)

[Tinker Dragoon]

The appropriate word in this case is "vacillate."

Personally I'd love somebody, anybody, to publish a Super Robot Wars-based RPG (paper or electronic). Alas, the series is virtually unknown in America, so I am left to convert all my favorite mecha to Mekton Z and Palladium rules.

*skulks away to resume translating the Hückebein's stats*

[Cyclone]

So, we're all in agreement about a new Mecha game of some sort then?

Personally, I think that given the scope of such a game and levels of fire power invovled, a game that is only set on earth would kind of be limited (alright, who wants to trash Detroit again?). However, a Mecha game that spans lightyears apon lightyears seems to be, well someone else's intelectual property. But one that took place in Sol, with Earth, Mars, Luna, Phobos and Demios, as well as assorted satelites of the gas giants further out would be plausable for these kinds of combats, give a built in reason for this kind of combat, and a varity of nation states to fuel the fires of war with. For this kind of combat, significant resources (to build these giant death machines) and factionalism is the key for a good story.

Except the above describes both big licenses (Gundam) and numbers filed off versions of big licenses (Jovian Chronicles).

But I prefer that kind of low level. Or even more low level, ground based stuff only.

[glitterboy2098]

Uh-huh. Remind me again, WHO orginally stated that they'd like to see a "Super Robot" game (take a look at the first page and look for the post from a guy with a pic of Char in his signature)? And don't Super Robots tend to be highly individualized machines going up against waves of mass produced models followed by one highly individualized machine? Not that what you just described would be bad, for a "real robot" game. However, I was thinking super robots and when I think Super Robots I either think combiners or mecha as unique as their pilots.

personally, the "Super robot" show i think would be a good to use as an insperation would be Gundam 8th MS team. rather than the custom tricked out Deus-Ex-Machina of the other gundam shows, its just a group of pilots running mass-produced gundam models in the asian theater. while the story revolves around the development of a Uber-mecha by their enemy, the main characters themselves merely piloted slightly better than front line machines. bringing the reality of most of the Gundam-esqe settings to light, While the "Heros" run around in nigh-unstopable uber-mecha, the average grunt still exists, and if you look close enough, they too are heros. (a decent portrayal of real war actually. the media hypes up one or two people, but the thousands others fighting are just as much heros.)

in an RPG, you need the ability to run both kinds of campaigns. the Uber-meta-plot ones where the characters every decision effects the balance of power, and those down and gritty war stories where the characters scrape by on the skin of theit teeth and a bit of unauthorized tactics.

[Cyclone]

Case in point, DP9 refuses any submissions for HG or JC that include super prototypes because even they have driven the stereotype into the ground, not to mention not everybody in a ground can have the uber-mecha...

IMO RT style officer/grunt differences are the most that should be included, possibly with 08th MS Team style kitbashing, low level like GM Head not Ez0.

[Shin Kenshiro]

Here's a basic idea for someone to run with...

Don't make the mecha Gundam sized. Max them at 20 feet.

First off, use a standard frame concept. No mega-sized, super lights, or heavies. Have the basis of it be that a group of scientists devised a way create a nimble, mid-sized robotic skeleton that can be modified in a variety of ways, but DON'T make it a world-wide thing. Use the old anime concept of above average mecha vs. conventional weapons. They don't have to transform or anything, just make them insanely customizable.

Also, make them run on fuel...like a hyped up version of a helicopter's gas turbine engine. This keeps the idea of flight down, and by stating that the system cannot run on anything but a chemical reaction, the munchies who want to chuck all their nuke reactors and other stuff get nipped in the bud. Make it so the thing runs on damn near anything, but still needs fuel. Real fun for those "Behind Enemy Lines" missions.

How do you keep the opposing side from wanting to use mecha? Easy, their government doesn't see the need for them. Why bother when you can keep increasing the abilities of your own conventional weapons? Think along the lines of PatLabor as well....mecha exist, they're powerful, but they sure ain't the end-all be-all of weaponry.

[Tinker Dragoon]

Don't make the mecha Gundam sized. Max them at 20 feet.

Bah, there are too many robots like that in Palladium already. I want to see more 160', 400 ton models

[glitterboy2098]

so far the common threads seem to be:

1) large setting, to maximise playability options

2) potential for super powered truely unique designs. (i say potential because to make an RPG set entirely around that would not sell well, or require some form of design system, which kinda goes against palladium style. )

3) beleivable (if streaching the edge of it) technology.


we have heard support of settings on earth, settings off earth, alien technology, space travel, high tech mecha, lowtech mecha.



now here is a question, can we combine the majority of these into one setting?

[Cyclone]

Another vote for 20ft's.

Or even better, smaller than that. Bulky chest not because it has to fit the engine or has armor out the warzoo, but because it needs to be that big to fit the pilot

[Shin Kenshiro]

The reason I said max it at 20ft is that if you make them absolutely huge (80-90 ft) you are now in Jovian Chronicles/Battletech scale....by keeping them small you also keep them in the more semi-realistic setting without having to rely on a nuclear reactor or a technician crew of 50...a technician group of 10 can keep a squad of those things in front-line status. Plus it makes for cooler adventures if you let them work with equipment that you can jury rig from a beat up truck to get that mecha back online or syphon off a wrecked car's gas as the battle rages on to get your mecha up to save an infantry group pinned down.

[Cyclone]

No

At the small end of my scale we're talking Heavy Gear/Votoms at the large scale Assault Suit Valken. I'd favor more speed instead of armor, probably because it's technically impossible (in said game universe) to have it any other way.

Also be an amusing hand break to crossovers if the most insanely overpowered mecha of that type wouldn't even plink Rifts Earth stuff ^_^

[Janus]

Yeah send some of that my way as well. Super plink. nOw I have heard everything. That must be the damage they use in SD Gundam.

[Janus]

EDIT:
DISCLAIMER: Drugs are bad, mm'kay?[/quote]

That is right kiddies just say no!

All this talk of a new Mecha game made me bring all of my notes on a game I was developing out of my basement. Arrgh! Why will the beast not rest.

[Sabre 1]

EDIT:
DISCLAIMER: Drugs are bad, mm'kay?

That is right kiddies just say no!

All this talk of a new Mecha game made me bring all of my notes on a game I was developing out of my basement. Arrgh! Why will the beast not rest.[/quote]

Because the beast must feed!

On a serious not I still think we should go for a "Mecha Unlimited" which would allow the game to be customized to any type of setting, from Appleseed style power suits to Getter Robo super robots.

But I'm still liking what I'm hearing from you guys.

[Warmaster40k]

The reason I said max it at 20ft is that if you make them absolutely huge (80-90 ft) you are now in Jovian Chronicles/Battletech scale.....

in battletech the michs were 33 feet tall some 50.

any instead of waiting for palladium to make it, why dont we get together and free lance the damn thing plus id like to see a mech game were the mechs arent uber advance but actaully first or second gen mechs inother words they look like a tank on legs using tech thats 10-20 years more advance than ours

[Warmaster40k]

hmmm well to let every one know i wouldnt mind working on the project myself so if any one would like to join in we could set up some sort of thing on AIM to prevent theft of the idea plus i dont care if id make money it just be awesome to see my name on it so what do u think of that