Thought Experiment: Gene Splicers/Gene Tech + Bio-Wizardry

[Nekira Sudacne]

there two different things entirely, though the end result is somewhat simmilat.

gene splicing alters genes to make them more like genes of others.

Bio-wizardy forces genes that are normally incompatable to funtion togeather.

not even close, knowing one would do absolutly nothing to help the other.

[Pox]

Gotta go with Nekira on this one.

Splicers/Tech and Bio-Wizards' experimentations generally produce similar results...just by different methods.

Additionally, the character takes their own life in their hands by going to either (if the augmentors are played correctly and NOT by how people want them to be played...something that seems to not be going on alot these days)

[BigLEE]

there two different things entirely, though the end result is somewhat simmilat.

gene splicing alters genes to make them more like genes of others.

Bio-wizardy forces genes that are normally incompatable to funtion togeather.

not even close, knowing one would do absolutly nothing to help the other.

I disagree. Why couldn't one enhance the other? (.i.e. take a human, splice his genes to mimic another creatures abilities, then use biowizardry to kick them up a notch.) It's just a game, anything is possible after all.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Gotta go with Nekira on this one.

Splicers/Tech and Bio-Wizards' experimentations generally produce similar results...just by different methods.

Additionally, the character takes their own life in their hands by going to either (if the augmentors are played correctly and NOT by how people want them to be played...something that seems to not be going on alot these days)

same here. one borg I was GMing was afraid to go to a cyber doc if he rolled anything but one a natural 1 on his streetwise roll to find a "skilled, honest" cyber doc

[Nekira Sudacne]

Yes, in actual practice, there probably would be a sploog manhunt.

This is a hypothetical, 'what if' type thought experiment.

the two skills have nothing to do with each-otehr.

gene splicing is a science.

bio wizardry is an incantation.

how is knowing one going to help another?

[R Ditto]

Interesting subject.
I would say it would have far reaching effects.
First, the genesplicer could take some sort of successfully altered being that has already been made far superior through genetic engineering, and then using the bio-wizardry to push the already superior being's capabilities even farther.

A good comparison would be a techno wizard, who uses several different things (skill/knowledge, psionics and magic) to augment/improve machines in ways that physical upgrading alone can't achieve.

Psychic Operators and Psi-Techs might also be a good comparison.
Using two similar things that can have similar results, and blending them together to achieve more than either one can achieve alone. Both can combine those skills and psionics to do more than a skilled mechanic or mind melter with telemechanics could hope to achieve alone.

In the same way, Someone with superior genetic engineering knowledge and bio-wizardry knowledge could achieve more than a genesplicer or bio-wizard could achieve alone.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Interesting subject.
I would say it would have far reaching effects.
First, the genesplicer could take some sort of successfully altered being that has already been made far superior through genetic engineering, and then using the bio-wizardry to push the already superior being's capabilities even farther.

A good comparison would be a techno wizard, who uses several different things (skill/knowledge, psionics and magic) to augment/improve machines in ways that physical upgrading alone can't achieve.

Psychic Operators and Psi-Techs might also be a good comparison.
Using two similar things that can have similar results, and blending them together to achieve more than either one can achieve alone. Both can combine those skills and psionics to do more than a skilled mechanic or mind melter with telemechanics could hope to achieve alone.

In the same way, Someone with superior genetic engineering knowledge and bio-wizardry knowledge could achieve more than a genesplicer or bio-wizard could achieve alone.

not quite. they don't compare.

they Psi-tech and the psychic operator both work with machines.

most imporatntly. The psi-tech knows everything the operator knows, with more psionics to boot.

that is, it's an upgraded version. there is nothing an operator can do they psi-tech cannot do. but there is much the psi-tech can that the operator cannot.

the Bio Wizard does nothing but take something from one creature and place it on another.

the gene splicer takes what makes the creature do what the target cannot, and puts that in.

and whats more, the Bio Wizard can give them purely magic qualities that have nothing to do with what's atcually put on. like the immobile wings that provide flight though magic.

the gene splicer could put wings on, but couldn't make an unaerdynamic creature fly.

[R Ditto]

Operators have skills and psionics.
Psi-techs have skills and more psionics.
Techno-wizards have skills, psionics and magic.

overall, I see no problem with the subject of "What if a Genesplicer had bio-wizardry skills, and what could they do with both?"

[Svartalf]

Yes, in actual practice, there probably would be a sploog manhunt.

This is a hypothetical, 'what if' type thought experiment.

the two skills have nothing to do with each-otehr.

gene splicing is a science.

bio wizardry is an incantation.

how is knowing one going to help another?

slight disagreement there... By my lights, bio wizardry is mostly advanced medical science... large parts of it are based on grafting creatures or body parts on the subject, if magically enhanced to ensure the compatibility of the graft or implant... Only the transmutation treatments seem to be essentially magical , and if Atlantis did not call it "magical transmutation", I'd have been of a mind to regard it as more splicer style genetic reconstruction...

now... one thing I'm sure, is that the sploogs are NEVER going to let other races deprive them of having the bio wiz market neatly cornered... and I doubt that any gene splicers or gene tech are going to get close enough to his hear's desires from them to give them his guild secrets... however, if you can find a sufficiently easy going splugorth (Splynncryth strikes me as just the type), with a curious and enterprising gene tweaker such as those who dwell around Germany... I just don't want to think of what horrors a joint ventures might produce ... gengineered gargoyle and brodkil bio borgs...If I were triax, I'd give ample funding to that research in anti matter generators, ultra alloys and hi power particule beam guns...

[Nekira Sudacne]

Yes, in actual practice, there probably would be a sploog manhunt.

This is a hypothetical, 'what if' type thought experiment.

the two skills have nothing to do with each-otehr.

gene splicing is a science.

bio wizardry is an incantation.

how is knowing one going to help another?

slight disagreement there... By my lights, bio wizardry is mostly advanced medical science... large parts of it are based on grafting creatures or body parts on the subject, if magically enhanced to ensure the compatibility of the graft or implant... Only the transmutation treatments seem to be essentially magical , and if Atlantis did not call it "magical transmutation", I'd have been of a mind to regard it as more splicer style genetic reconstruction...

I suppose that's just your interpretation, but remember, the spllogs are NOT interersted in tech. MAGIC is their bread and butter. it says so quite plainly.

now... one thing I'm sure, is that the sploogs are NEVER going to let other races deprive them of having the bio wiz market neatly cornered... and I doubt that any gene splicers or gene tech are going to get close enough to his hear's desires from them to give them his guild secrets... however, if you can find a sufficiently easy going splugorth (Splynncryth strikes me as just the type), with a curious and enterprising gene tweaker such as those who dwell around Germany... I just don't want to think of what horrors a joint ventures might produce ... gengineered gargoyle and brodkil bio borgs...If I were triax, I'd give ample funding to that research in anti matter generators, ultra alloys and hi power particule beam guns...

also a question. if Bio-Wizardy is just advanced tech, how does Rune magic work sinse it says it's a mere extension of bio-wizardry?

bio-wizardry = Life magic. not medicene science.

[Svartalf]

[
also a question. if Bio-Wizardy is just advanced tech, how does Rune magic work sinse it says it's a mere extension of bio-wizardry?

bio-wizardry = Life magic. not medicene science.

mh... you got a point there... I fear that Morg Armstrong (my favorite Maxi Man character) has been so much with Kittani he's forgotten what the Sploog "mainstream" culture is like...

[Vrykolas2k]

Question, for those of you who realise the 'splicer/ tech would be hunted... how would the Splugorth even KNOW the being had Bio-wizardry? After all, the Atlantis book says they'd go after anyone they knew could make Rune Weopons, but I have a friend with an Asgardian Dwarf PC... and then there are the Greater Cyclops, who are also Rune Masters and the Splugorth know nothing of them either. The 'splicers/ tech are enigmatic beings and it is entirely possible a group of them have captured a High Lord and made it teach them its Bio-wizard secrets... it's master may have known 'splicers/ tech captured its minion, but wouldn't know which ones... and finding themwould be exceedingly difficult to say the least...
Now there's an idea to run with...

[Svartalf]

well, Vrykolas... the one difference 'tween a rune master not of splugorth training, and a bio wizard not obedient to splugorth intelligence is precisely that a rune master does not necessarily have to train with a Sploog master, while the only people able to train a bio wizard are High Lords... and if the rumor about them being sorts of symbiots to their Splugorth master is true, that means they would have some kind of a bad time trying to conceal the fact that they've trained a stranger in the secret science... even if such treason be possible and there were no other way to know (such as monitoring their activities without actually doing a psychic probe)

[Nekira Sudacne]

but remember, the secrets of bio-wizardy ARE sometimes given as a reward for a truely great thing or a huge deal.

remember, Alistar Duscon was taught Bio-Wizardry by Splyncryth himself, and practes it with the splurgorths blessings.

[grandmaster z0b]

Actually I think that if the two were combined the effects would be incredible. For example a gene-splicer alone could alter a humans genes to produce a desired result, say... increased healing. Now the Bio-Wizard could introduce cells from a creature that already has magical healing for the same effect but together they could double the potential healing by having both. The splicer makes the humans body better at healing itself whilst the Bio-Wizard also gives it bio-regeneration at a magical rate.

Actually Bio-Wizardy (ot at least the Sploogs) do seem to be able to genetically alter things but exactly how well compared to the Gene-Splicers seems a mystery.

[Nekira Sudacne]

the one problem I think is that you can't really take a MAGICAL effect from a creature and splice it in with genes. the ability has nothing to do with their genes. it has to do with their magical nature.

there are no genes for turning invisible. that's a purely magical ability.

[LDMcFear™]

Instead of saying a Gene Splicer with bio wizardry knowledge, why not just a Gene splicer augmenting current Bio-wizard creatures and items, That is what they do after all. It just seems like it would make more sence.

[Subjugator]

the Bio Wizard does nothing but take something from one creature and place it on another.

Hrm. The Bio Wizard can also add MDC, make someone physically stronger, give someone supernatural strength and endurance, grow an entirely new body (interesting idea to 'cure' being a juicer), and so on and so forth. It's not just taking from one and placing on another, it's also the modification of existing.

the gene splicer takes what makes the creature do what the target cannot, and puts that in.

The Gene Splicer modifies the genetic code of the existing creature to change it into something it previously was not. This can include everything up to the ability to reproduce.

and whats more, the Bio Wizard can give them purely magic qualities that have nothing to do with what's atcually put on. like the immobile wings that provide flight though magic.

Correct.

the gene splicer could put wings on, but couldn't make an unaerdynamic creature fly.

I would say that the Monster Brodkil is not an aerodynamic creature, and yet it can fly.


Anyway, it's fairly clear that they *can* be complimentary. For example, a Gene Splicer could use his splicing abilities to change a human into an MDC creature, and then use his Bio Wizardry abilities to further increase the being's MDC and other 'natural' abilities.

[Nekira Sudacne]

the Bio Wizard does nothing but take something from one creature and place it on another.

Hrm. The Bio Wizard can also add MDC, make someone physically stronger, give someone supernatural strength and endurance, grow an entirely new body (interesting idea to 'cure' being a juicer), and so on and so forth. It's not just taking from one and placing on another, it's also the modification of existing.

yes, it does that, BY ADDING THINGS FROM OTHER CREATURES. and creating a new body is more of a magical way of cloning

the gene splicer takes what makes the creature do what the target cannot, and puts that in.

The Gene Splicer modifies the genetic code of the existing creature to change it into something it previously was not. This can include everything up to the ability to reproduce.

correct. yes, they could clone a brodkil. they can because it is a living creatre. yet the fact that it is supernatural is because it was taken from a supernatural being. there is magic at work. it cannot take a gene that was not magical and turn it into a magical one. there comes a point in dealing with the supernatural where logic no longer applys.

and whats more, the Bio Wizard can give them purely magic qualities that have nothing to do with what's atcually put on. like the immobile wings that provide flight though magic.

Correct.

the gene splicer could put wings on, but couldn't make an unaerdynamic creature fly.

I would say that the Monster Brodkil is not an aerodynamic creature, and yet it can fly.

but it is a supernatural creature. while the gene code allows them to control their supernatural abilites, it cannont grant supernatural abilites, mearly enable a creature to use their inhernt nature in new ways.


Anyway, it's fairly clear that they *can* be complimentary. For example, a Gene Splicer could use his splicing abilities to change a human into an MDC creature, and then use his Bio Wizardry abilities to further increase the being's MDC and other 'natural' abilities.

[Subjugator]

Hrm. The Bio Wizard can also add MDC, make someone physically stronger, give someone supernatural strength and endurance, grow an entirely new body (interesting idea to 'cure' being a juicer), and so on and so forth. It's not just taking from one and placing on another, it's also the modification of existing.

yes, it does that, BY ADDING THINGS FROM OTHER CREATURES. and creating a new body is more of a magical way of cloning

Funny, I've never seen it mentioned that such was how basic MDC and supernatural strength were added. Yes, you can add the carapace, the lobster like tail, the rhino like hide, and all that, but I'm referring to the addition of MDC without any change in looks. It peaks at 200 MDC and there's a maximum strength of fifty if a remember correctly. After that, you have to add, but before that it mentions NOTHING of adding or changing appearance.

NOWHERE does it say that the method of modification in those cases is by adding things from other creatures.

Also, the cloning is *still* adding nothing from something else.

the gene splicer takes what makes the creature do what the target cannot, and puts that in.

The Gene Splicer modifies the genetic code of the existing creature to change it into something it previously was not. This can include everything up to the ability to reproduce.

correct. yes, they could clone a brodkil. they can because it is a living creatre. yet the fact that it is supernatural is because it was taken from a supernatural being. there is magic at work. it cannot take a gene that was not magical and turn it into a magical one. there comes a point in dealing with the supernatural where logic no longer applys.

That is in part my point. They're complimentary, not the same. The Gene Splicer modifies what is there to make it meet his needs. Once that reaches the limit of scientific change, a Bio Wizard can infuse the genetically modified material to make it still tougher.

I would say that the Monster Brodkil is not an aerodynamic creature, and yet it can fly.

but it is a supernatural creature. while the gene code allows them to control their supernatural abilites, it cannont grant supernatural abilites, mearly enable a creature to use their inhernt nature in new ways.

Perhaps, but flight is not a supernatural ability they normally possess. They're not particularly light or aerodynamic, and yet the GS gave them the ability to fly.

*note*

Edited for clarity and because I missed a statement.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Hrm. The Bio Wizard can also add MDC, make someone physically stronger, give someone supernatural strength and endurance, grow an entirely new body (interesting idea to 'cure' being a juicer), and so on and so forth. It's not just taking from one and placing on another, it's also the modification of existing.

yes, it does that, BY ADDING THINGS FROM OTHER CREATURES. and creating a new body is more of a magical way of cloning

Funny, I've never seen it mentioned that such was how basic MDC and supernatural strength were added. Yes, you can add the carapace, the lobster like tail, the rhino like hide, and all that, but I'm referring to the addition of MDC without any change in looks. It peaks at 200 MDC and there's a maximum strength of fifty if a remember correctly. After that, you have to add, but before that it mentions NOTHING of adding or changing appearance.

NOWHERE does it say that what you're describing is the case for what I'm talking about.

yes, that's what I was refering to. they add things to you from other creatures. it's just not VISABLE.

they take the skin from a human-looking supernatural creature, lets just say a Lost One for the sake of argument. that is your MDC now.

they replace your muscles from anything that is supernaturaly strong, it's under your skin, so it donsn't show. heck, we could say this is the same lost one.

the gene splicer takes what makes the creature do what the target cannot, and puts that in.

The Gene Splicer modifies the genetic code of the existing creature to change it into something it previously was not. This can include everything up to the ability to reproduce.

correct. yes, they could clone a brodkil. they can because it is a living creatre. yet the fact that it is supernatural is because it was taken from a supernatural being. there is magic at work. it cannot take a gene that was not magical and turn it into a magical one. there comes a point in dealing with the supernatural where logic no longer applys.

That is in part my point. They're complimentary, not the same. The Gene Splicer modifies what is there to make it meet his needs. Once that reaches the limit of scientific change, a Bio Wizard can infuse the genetically modified material to make it still tougher.

I would say that the Monster Brodkil is not an aerodynamic creature, and yet it can fly.

but it is a supernatural creature. while the gene code allows them to control their supernatural abilites, it cannont grant supernatural abilites, mearly enable a creature to use their inhernt nature in new ways.

Perhaps, but flight is not a supernatural ability they normally possess. They're not particularly light or aerodynamic, and yet the GS gave them the ability to fly.

that's what I was addressing to bein with last time. I thought it was obvious.

flight is not a brokils normal power. the gene splicing altered it's genetic code so that it could manipulate it's inhernt magic in new ways. it's all the same energy. they can now manipulate it in new ways. in this, it grants flight. they are mearly manipulating their inhernt magic in new ways through Gene Splicing

[Subjugator]

Nekira, have you read up on Bio-Wizard Magic Transmutation (Atlantis p. 107-108)? See the second paragraph.

Each enhancement requires being placed in a trance and completely immersed in a tank filled with thick, green, magic fluid for 72 hours

There is no implantation, no surgery, no pieces of other creatures, no cloning. Mutation via magic fluid immersion. It uses magic, but it can be done to a Gene Splicer creation just as is can be done to many other creatures (non-supernatural beings and maybe sub-demons like Brodkil). Transmutation includes MDC transformation and supernatural PS.

As for the brodkil argument... I'm sorry but if you have big enough wings, and the strength to use em, you can fly. Brodkil have supernatural PS, and Monster Brodkil have massive wings. To boot, they're humanoid and humans are actually more aerodynamic than you may initially think.

I was thinking of the six or eight arms (I can't remember which) that would make them considerably less aerodynamic. Your other arguments are quite cogent...I was pointing out that they're not aerodynamic and yet can fly is all.

[Subjugator]

heheh. I see. I don't think arms create much drag anyway, as long as they're not holding a shield or large-headed axe in the wrong direction.

Hehehe...hence the name, "kite shield"...hehe.