Is Rifts really Heroes Unlimited gone wrong?

[Ten Tigers]

Between information in the old Rifts Sourcebook 1, Mutants in Orbit, and Villians Unlimited, it seems that the world of Rifts is the glowing haunted remains of what was once Heroes Unlimited Earth.

Is there an official word on this? What are your thoughts?

[Suicycho]

I think it was the NGR book when Lazlo is mentioned that KS all but stated that rifts was the BTS future. He said that was how he tended to view things. This has since been changed with palladiums explanation that none of the past games are ritfs past, but that elements of all the worlds had bled over into rifts because of dimensional bleed or something like that.

[Daniel Stoker]

It can't be HU just because when Chaos Earth comes out which is pretty much the prequel to Rifts the people there have NO idea about magic and Psi and that stuff scares the willies out of them. Plus I swear in one of the books they wonder if Rifts IS Lazlo's earth or not just because what are the odds of him randomly landing on the right earth when going through a random Rift.




Daniel Stoker

[Dr. Doom III]

If anything it's BTS.
There are no stories of the golden age and superheroes. Just super science.

[Zer0 Kay]

I do belive there was conjecture that there are no alternate Rifts earths because all the threads of the previous alternate realities combined into a rope the day the apocalypse happened and formed the world that is Rifts. So the past of Rifts is none of them and all of them at the same time.

[Dr. Doom III]

I do belive there was conjecture that there are no alternate Rifts earths because all the threads of the previous alternate realities combined into a rope the day the apocalypse happened and formed the world that is Rifts. So the past of Rifts is none of them and all of them at the same time.

But that's just crazy talk.

[Daniel Stoker]

I do belive there was conjecture that there are no alternate Rifts earths because all the threads of the previous alternate realities combined into a rope the day the apocalypse happened and formed the world that is Rifts. So the past of Rifts is none of them and all of them at the same time.

But that's just crazy talk.

No really, he did!

No Crazy talk is the name of my brother.


Personally I liked that version myself. It made sense and it seemed kinda neat. And it ties everything together really well.



Daniel Stoker

[Zer0 Kay]

I do belive there was conjecture that there are no alternate Rifts earths because all the threads of the previous alternate realities combined into a rope the day the apocalypse happened and formed the world that is Rifts. So the past of Rifts is none of them and all of them at the same time.

But that's just crazy talk.

What ever. Everyone else is crazy I'm the only sane person...except for the person who mentioned that.

So why is there no alternate Rifts earth dimension books?

[Zer0 Kay]

I think the 'official' word is that none of the lines have any connection to any other line (with the exception of Rifts and Chaos Earth), but the way we play is that Robotech is Rifts Earth's past.

Personally, I don't see why they ALL can't be the same world.

Now, not having ever played Nightbane or BTS or HU I'll have to ask you to bear with me. It's all one great big busy world out there with, Nightlords trying to steal power, the occult doing things in the shadows, and heros in spandex on the evening news.

HU deals with the Supers. Heroes and Villians fighting it out. A nightspawn could fit into this role fairly well, but a BTS OCC is underpowered. Someonce from BTS would be in more of a support, research, skill monkey type role. If Doc Strange wasn't a super mage he would fill this out well.

BTS deals with the occult, right? From my understanding, it has a much lower power level than the other games. It's more of a thinking, RPing game. For that reason a powerful Super or 'Bane could be unbalancing, but there's no reason that lesser powerful creatures couldn't be played.

Nightbane deals with the Nightlords trying to take over the world. Doesn't that sound like an outstanding BTS-type game where you have to find out what Dark Day was all about, making deals in shadows, discovering that the powers that be aren't what they seem? Supers would be a good fit as well. Supers fighting for the Nightlords or the the Nightbane, I think the power level matches well.

The Marvel universe is like that. Low power occult types running around investigating things (like Darkhold and the Book of Sins - there's nothing special about the Montesi family) Higher power occult battleing it out for good and evil (Ghost Rider, the Nightspawn, Vengence, Doc Strange, battling Lloth, Dracula, Xanthos) and your run-of-the-mill X-men vs Brotherhood of Mutants type spendex superheroes battling supervillians.

I think you could play any game on Earth, you just highlight the things you want. If you're playing Nightbane, you highlight the fight against the Nightlords, but the Supers are still there on the nightly news, and the Occultists are still snooping around ruins. If you're playing HU, your Super Heroes were extremely busy trying to keep the peace on Dark Day, battling the Super Villians trying to take advantage of the chaos...

You get my drift? The other Palladium lines are there, they're happening, you're just not paying any attention to them.

ok i can see your point, but no matter what system you are in you would know about a nightlords presence. something like that would be hard to ignore.

I can see BTS, N&S, and even HU2 as the same world, but not Nightbane. Because of Dark Day, that event differentiated the Nightbane world from the other contemporary Earth environments.

First: Lunarix, do Nightlords give off a supernatural aura like dragons & other supernaturals in Rifts? Do you think they can control it? If, in Nightbane the game, every Nightlord gave off his supernatural aura, he'd never have a human hang around long enough to serve or take orders. I could see Nightspawn knowing (special ability of 'Spawn) or when they're activley using their powers or showing their natural form, otherwise I think the Nightlords could hide their aura and appear normal.


Second: Mephisto. Dark Day could happen in any world. True, it is never mentioned in any other games, but there is no reason it couldn't happen in BTS, N&SS or HU2. The vast majority of the world has no idea that Nightlords even exist. The only that changed in their world was the sun didn't rise one day. Which would totally freak someone out while the sun was down, but I think the majority of people would gloss that day over in their minds afterwards. A month after dark day you'd only be discussing it a night in safety with your closest confidants, 6 months after noone would discuss it and you'd be wondering if it really happened.

You could be playing any one of those systems and just have the sun not rise one day and have the players play through that. The next day, the sun rises, the BTS people try and investigate, the HU2 Supers blame it on their arch enemies, and the N&SS blame it on the enemies government. You could have the entire incident occur and not one Nightspwn be seen, or they could be everywhere and the characters have to fight to survive.


I like the idea of it all being the same world, but that's me. In my world, N&SS, BTS Nightspawn and HU2 all occur now, with the Robotech invasion in the future and the results of the Robotech wars release all the PPE which create the first Rifts.

I just realized if Dark Day happened durring the winter for the arctic circle or the summer for the antarctic circle then they'd be really confuse coming out of total darkness into total darkness. That is of course if they had no communications with anywhere else.

What if Dark Day happened the same time the System Failure invasion happened?

[MADMANMIKE]

I do belive there was conjecture that there are no alternate Rifts earths because all the threads of the previous alternate realities combined into a rope the day the apocalypse happened and formed the world that is Rifts. So the past of Rifts is none of them and all of them at the same time.

But that's just crazy talk.

What ever. Everyone else is crazy I'm the only sane person...except for the person who mentioned that.

So why is there no alternate Rifts earth dimension books?

..It would be interesting to see; somewhat addressed in Transdimensional Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, although in a generic form. that's the kind of material that usually gets left up to the creative GM.

..I'm a big fan of alternate history sci-fi. Turtledove, Drake, Flint and Stirling are my favorite authors...

-Mike >8]

[Temporalmage]

Seem to remember that from Phase world, one can get to many differant alternative earths. HU, Beyond the supernatural, Rifts, ....these are but a few of the possible alternative earths, and alternative time lines. Remember that the past is also an alternative earth. Hence why dinosaurs roam the planet that is Rifts. Rifts is just a crossroads to alternative worlds and other dimensions in the time and space that it takes up. Interesting enough one could conceavably use a rift to travle back in time to alter the reality that is Rifts by assasination some key figurehead. Prosek? Tarn? You get the idea. Quite probably a one way trip, but still an interesting theory.

[MADMANMIKE]

..Bah, there is no time travel, only parallel timelines. You can't change the timeline you leave, you only take your place in the events of the timeline you go to.

-Mike >8]

[Temporalmage]

..Bah, there is no time travel, only parallel timelines. You can't change the timeline you leave, you only take your place in the events of the timeline you go to.

-Mike >8]

Well it's all conjecture at this point. The theory of parallel worlds leaves open the idea that every single time imaginable could be accessed through dimensional travle. Every event, that has two or more possible outcomes, would theoretically branch off into a seperate world. IE: parallel. The Tarn or Prosec that you killed in thier youth wouldn't be from YOUR specific world, but the world could quite possibly be similar enough that for practical purposes it would seem the same. Would anyones life be changed all that much if just one coworker or classmate that you know never existed? Probably not noticably unless they are a very close friend. But this person may some day do some great thing that would adversly effect future generations. And they wouldn't even realize their world had changed.

[Dr. Doom III]

So why is there no alternate Rifts earth dimension books?

Because alternate realities suck.

[Zer0 Kay]

Seem to remember that from Phase world, one can get to many differant alternative earths. HU, Beyond the supernatural, Rifts, ....these are but a few of the possible alternative earths, and alternative time lines. Remember that the past is also an alternative earth. Hence why dinosaurs roam the planet that is Rifts. Rifts is just a crossroads to alternative worlds and other dimensions in the time and space that it takes up. Interesting enough one could conceavably use a rift to travle back in time to alter the reality that is Rifts by assasination some key figurehead. Prosek? Tarn? You get the idea. Quite probably a one way trip, but still an interesting theory.

Ah yes but HU, BTS etc. aren't parallel earths it's past earth. As I recall rifts aren't just an opening in dimensions (alternatives) they are also an opening in time. So though you may go to HU, BTS etc. you are going back into time before the strands were one. Before all the magic of the various parallel earths, that were made when Atlantis dissapeared, were recombined to create the magic saturated Earth of Rifts. The dinosaurs aren't rifted from an alternate (parallel) earth they're either from a different planet (explaining MDC) or Earth's past.

[Zer0 Kay]

..Bah, there is no time travel, only parallel timelines. You can't change the timeline you leave, you only take your place in the events of the timeline you go to.

-Mike >8]

Thats your take. So if you can't rift to your past and your rifting to someone elses past and you do something then rift back. Do you either end up in an alternate from either timeline or in yours since you shouldn't be going to their future since their is no time travel? So if you rift back to yours then nothing will have happened, so why not just go f@#k with thiers for fun? If it is neither you travel back to you will realize as you find out what ever you did (kill Hitler, John Wilks Booth [hmm Wilks Laser guns] stop the assassination of John Lennon) didn't happen but yet the world is different and your screwed because your life isn't yours anymore.

[Zer0 Kay]

I think the 'official' word is that none of the lines have any connection to any other line (with the exception of Rifts and Chaos Earth), but the way we play is that Robotech is Rifts Earth's past.

Personally, I don't see why they ALL can't be the same world.

Now, not having ever played Nightbane or BTS or HU I'll have to ask you to bear with me. It's all one great big busy world out there with, Nightlords trying to steal power, the occult doing things in the shadows, and heros in spandex on the evening news.

HU deals with the Supers. Heroes and Villians fighting it out. A nightspawn could fit into this role fairly well, but a BTS OCC is underpowered. Someonce from BTS would be in more of a support, research, skill monkey type role. If Doc Strange wasn't a super mage he would fill this out well.

BTS deals with the occult, right? From my understanding, it has a much lower power level than the other games. It's more of a thinking, RPing game. For that reason a powerful Super or 'Bane could be unbalancing, but there's no reason that lesser powerful creatures couldn't be played.

Nightbane deals with the Nightlords trying to take over the world. Doesn't that sound like an outstanding BTS-type game where you have to find out what Dark Day was all about, making deals in shadows, discovering that the powers that be aren't what they seem? Supers would be a good fit as well. Supers fighting for the Nightlords or the the Nightbane, I think the power level matches well.

The Marvel universe is like that. Low power occult types running around investigating things (like Darkhold and the Book of Sins - there's nothing special about the Montesi family) Higher power occult battleing it out for good and evil (Ghost Rider, the Nightspawn, Vengence, Doc Strange, battling Lloth, Dracula, Xanthos) and your run-of-the-mill X-men vs Brotherhood of Mutants type spendex superheroes battling supervillians.

I think you could play any game on Earth, you just highlight the things you want. If you're playing Nightbane, you highlight the fight against the Nightlords, but the Supers are still there on the nightly news, and the Occultists are still snooping around ruins. If you're playing HU, your Super Heroes were extremely busy trying to keep the peace on Dark Day, battling the Super Villians trying to take advantage of the chaos...

You get my drift? The other Palladium lines are there, they're happening, you're just not paying any attention to them.

ok i can see your point, but no matter what system you are in you would know about a nightlords presence. something like that would be hard to ignore.

I can see BTS, N&S, and even HU2 as the same world, but not Nightbane. Because of Dark Day, that event differentiated the Nightbane world from the other contemporary Earth environments.

First: Lunarix, do Nightlords give off a supernatural aura like dragons & other supernaturals in Rifts? Do you think they can control it? If, in Nightbane the game, every Nightlord gave off his supernatural aura, he'd never have a human hang around long enough to serve or take orders. I could see Nightspawn knowing (special ability of 'Spawn) or when they're activley using their powers or showing their natural form, otherwise I think the Nightlords could hide their aura and appear normal.


Second: Mephisto. Dark Day could happen in any world. True, it is never mentioned in any other games, but there is no reason it couldn't happen in BTS, N&SS or HU2. The vast majority of the world has no idea that Nightlords even exist. The only that changed in their world was the sun didn't rise one day. Which would totally freak someone out while the sun was down, but I think the majority of people would gloss that day over in their minds afterwards. A month after dark day you'd only be discussing it a night in safety with your closest confidants, 6 months after noone would discuss it and you'd be wondering if it really happened.

You could be playing any one of those systems and just have the sun not rise one day and have the players play through that. The next day, the sun rises, the BTS people try and investigate, the HU2 Supers blame it on their arch enemies, and the N&SS blame it on the enemies government. You could have the entire incident occur and not one Nightspwn be seen, or they could be everywhere and the characters have to fight to survive.


I like the idea of it all being the same world, but that's me. In my world, N&SS, BTS Nightspawn and HU2 all occur now, with the Robotech invasion in the future and the results of the Robotech wars release all the PPE which create the first Rifts.

You say everyone would forget it ever happened. I dunno; it's not like D-Day and Pearl Harbour are forgotten. Same thing with the San Fran quake during the World Series, 9/11, even Krakatoa is something that everyone is at least familiar with. I think the sun behaving weird is not something that would be forgotten or overlooked.

When was the last eclipse? What Earthquake? It is all subjective people will remember more what effects them more. I don't mention Krakatoa everyday to my friends I don't even usually think of the name unless someone else brings it up same goes for most of the other stuff you said. I don't think he ment people would forget as much as it really wouldn't be a topic of discussion anymore they've moved on. If your still stuck on Pearl Harbour (pardon if you lost anyone) then you need to move into this century, by the way we won even though we paid them. As far as 9/11 I wish more people would remember. I wish they played the songs more often (even though I don't like country). I wish everytime something was said bad about America and they way foreign conflicts are being handled now that the media would play footage to remind us of why we are acting that way. I wish the battle cry for the American military right now was remember the twins! (or something more catchy). I think we let it go too easy. However I don't think 9/11 gives us an excuse to act like frat boys and mistreat prisoners either, more so it should force us (the military) to act even more professional.

“Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster; and if you gaze into the Abyss, the Abyss also gazes into you.”

-- Friedrich Nietzsche

[Zer0 Kay]

In such a situation I think the goverment would act concerned and say that they have scientists examining the problem..... The investigation is going well, and answers should be forthcoming soon (although they never materialize).

remember its all just a weather balloon.

A very large, erratic weather balloon that explodes when it crashes and leaves a crash trench.

[Zer0 Kay]

In such a situation I think the goverment would act concerned and say that they have scientists examining the problem..... The investigation is going well, and answers should be forthcoming soon (although they never materialize).

remember its all just a weather balloon.

A very large, erratic weather balloon that explodes when it crashes and leaves a crash trench.

That's not really a crash trench. It's just an illusion caused by light from Venus refracted through some swamp gas.

I have two questions for you. First is your handle from Crusade? Second, ok it's not a question it's not swamp gas its cow methane why do you think the government spent so much money on that research? OK guess it ended as a question.

[grandmaster z0b]

I'm almost certain that in the description of Victor Lazlo (in Triax & NGR) it says that Rifts Earth is not the BTS future, and that it is in fact a similar parallel universe. If I remember correctly, Victor thinks it is his world's future but KS makes it clear he is mistaken.
Rifts earth is a separate parallel dimension, and I'm 90% sure that's cannon.
I play it that every different game is a different parallel universe, and that for some reason certain dimensions are "sympathetic" enough to travel between. So the players can go from Rifts earth to HU and back to the original Rifts earth they came from and not one of the infinite other Rifts earths that must span the multi-verse. So the idea of the "megaverse" is just the name given to those collections of dimensions that have a similar enough quantum frequency to interact.
N.B. It is not supposed to be scientific, just pseudo scientific after all it is sci-fi.

[Zer0 Kay]

I'm almost certain that in the description of Victor Lazlo (in Triax & NGR) it says that Rifts Earth is not the BTS future, and that it is in fact a similar parallel universe. If I remember correctly, Victor thinks it is his world's future but KS makes it clear he is mistaken.
Rifts earth is a separate parallel dimension, and I'm 90% sure that's cannon.
I play it that every different game is a different parallel universe, and that for some reason certain dimensions are "sympathetic" enough to travel between. So the players can go from Rifts earth to HU and back to the original Rifts earth they came from and not one of the infinite other Rifts earths that must span the multi-verse. So the idea of the "megaverse" is just the name given to those collections of dimensions that have a similar enough quantum frequency to interact.
N.B. It is not supposed to be scientific, just pseudo scientific after all it is sci-fi.

Uh so why is there Lazlo and New Lazlo and most rogue scholars know of him before he was found in Africa? So 199x TMNT, 196x Recon, or 19xx N&S/BtS is supposed to be happening at the same time as Rifts? That would be a parallel dimension. Rifts don't just travel into different dimensions they are also listed as being temporal rifts. Rifts in time and space.

[Hystrix]

According to Megaverse Builder the HU universe in a parellel dimension. Now I can belive the theory of BTS being Rifts past...

[Daniel Stoker]

Uh so why is there Lazlo and New Lazlo and most rogue scholars know of him before he was found in Africa? So 199x TMNT, 196x Recon, or 19xx N&S/BtS is supposed to be happening at the same time as Rifts? That would be a parallel dimension. Rifts don't just travel into different dimensions they are also listed as being temporal rifts. Rifts in time and space.

Because a case of his books got rifted into North America and the founders of Lazlo found them and thought they were native to their planet since it explained a lot of what was happening to them? Heh, it could have happened that way.



Daniel Stoker

[Ten Tigers]

Wow, this thread really took off!

Thank you for all the replies and various input. If I had to cast a decision right now, I would have to say it is a blend of two theories presented here. I would say that Rifts Earth is an alternate Heroes Unlimited Earth. While there are strong arguments to suggest it is an alternate BTS world, BTS simply does not support the technology levels suggested in Rifts.

However, I do find a few flaws with my conclusion.

The first is Century City. Where are the remains of this megacity? Even a ground-zero nuclear blast could not completely atomize its structure.

The second problem I found would be all the alien races. I don't remember the name of the organization, but they sent a galactic champion to safe-guard HU Earth after the Century City incident. A cosmic glowie Rifts Earth would be the target for numerous galactic civilizations of a nefarious nature.

Just some more food for thought...

[grandmaster z0b]

I'm almost certain that in the description of Victor Lazlo (in Triax & NGR) it says that Rifts Earth is not the BTS future, and that it is in fact a similar parallel universe. If I remember correctly, Victor thinks it is his world's future but KS makes it clear he is mistaken.
Rifts earth is a separate parallel dimension, and I'm 90% sure that's cannon.
I play it that every different game is a different parallel universe, and that for some reason certain dimensions are "sympathetic" enough to travel between. So the players can go from Rifts earth to HU and back to the original Rifts earth they came from and not one of the infinite other Rifts earths that must span the multi-verse. So the idea of the "megaverse" is just the name given to those collections of dimensions that have a similar enough quantum frequency to interact.
N.B. It is not supposed to be scientific, just pseudo scientific after all it is sci-fi.

Uh so why is there Lazlo and New Lazlo and most rogue scholars know of him before he was found in Africa? So 199x TMNT, 196x Recon, or 19xx N&S/BtS is supposed to be happening at the same time as Rifts? That would be a parallel dimension. Rifts don't just travel into different dimensions they are also listed as being temporal rifts. Rifts in time and space.

Umm are you trying to argue with me? Look in Triax and the NGR, and then argue with KS. The point I'm trying to make is that with parallel dimensions, there would be many Victor Lazlo's and the one from BTS got Rifted into a very similar parallel future; Rifts Earth. So yes they are Rifts in time and space.

[Zer0 Kay]

Uh so why is there Lazlo and New Lazlo and most rogue scholars know of him before he was found in Africa? So 199x TMNT, 196x Recon, or 19xx N&S/BtS is supposed to be happening at the same time as Rifts? That would be a parallel dimension. Rifts don't just travel into different dimensions they are also listed as being temporal rifts. Rifts in time and space.

Because a case of his books got rifted into North America and the founders of Lazlo found them and thought they were native to their planet since it explained a lot of what was happening to them? Heh, it could have happened that way.



Daniel Stoker

I can go with that.

[Zer0 Kay]

I'm almost certain that in the description of Victor Lazlo (in Triax & NGR) it says that Rifts Earth is not the BTS future, and that it is in fact a similar parallel universe. If I remember correctly, Victor thinks it is his world's future but KS makes it clear he is mistaken.
Rifts earth is a separate parallel dimension, and I'm 90% sure that's cannon.
I play it that every different game is a different parallel universe, and that for some reason certain dimensions are "sympathetic" enough to travel between. So the players can go from Rifts earth to HU and back to the original Rifts earth they came from and not one of the infinite other Rifts earths that must span the multi-verse. So the idea of the "megaverse" is just the name given to those collections of dimensions that have a similar enough quantum frequency to interact.
N.B. It is not supposed to be scientific, just pseudo scientific after all it is sci-fi.

Uh so why is there Lazlo and New Lazlo and most rogue scholars know of him before he was found in Africa? So 199x TMNT, 196x Recon, or 19xx N&S/BtS is supposed to be happening at the same time as Rifts? That would be a parallel dimension. Rifts don't just travel into different dimensions they are also listed as being temporal rifts. Rifts in time and space.

Umm are you trying to argue with me? Look in Triax and the NGR, and then argue with KS. The point I'm trying to make is that with parallel dimensions, there would be many Victor Lazlo's and the one from BTS got Rifted into a very similar parallel future; Rifts Earth. So yes they are Rifts in time and space.

Even if their are multiple Lazlos it is unlikely that all of them do the same job and act the same. If there are identical people in each dimension then where are the Super Heros in Rifts?

[Temporalmage]

I'm almost certain that in the description of Victor Lazlo (in Triax & NGR) it says that Rifts Earth is not the BTS future, and that it is in fact a similar parallel universe. If I remember correctly, Victor thinks it is his world's future but KS makes it clear he is mistaken.
Rifts earth is a separate parallel dimension, and I'm 90% sure that's cannon.
I play it that every different game is a different parallel universe, and that for some reason certain dimensions are "sympathetic" enough to travel between. So the players can go from Rifts earth to HU and back to the original Rifts earth they came from and not one of the infinite other Rifts earths that must span the multi-verse. So the idea of the "megaverse" is just the name given to those collections of dimensions that have a similar enough quantum frequency to interact.
N.B. It is not supposed to be scientific, just pseudo scientific after all it is sci-fi.

Uh so why is there Lazlo and New Lazlo and most rogue scholars know of him before he was found in Africa? So 199x TMNT, 196x Recon, or 19xx N&S/BtS is supposed to be happening at the same time as Rifts? That would be a parallel dimension. Rifts don't just travel into different dimensions they are also listed as being temporal rifts. Rifts in time and space.

Umm are you trying to argue with me? Look in Triax and the NGR, and then argue with KS. The point I'm trying to make is that with parallel dimensions, there would be many Victor Lazlo's and the one from BTS got Rifted into a very similar parallel future; Rifts Earth. So yes they are Rifts in time and space.

Even if their are multiple Lazlos it is unlikely that all of them do the same job and act the same. If there are identical people in each dimension then where are the Super Heros in Rifts?

They would be called Player Characters.

[grandmaster z0b]

Even if their are multiple Lazlos it is unlikely that all of them do the same job and act the same. If there are identical people in each dimension then where are the Super Heros in Rifts?

The idea of parallel dimensions is that there are an infinite parallel worlds with an infinite variety of Victor Lazlos, so technically there would be an infinite amount of Victor Lazlos who are Paranormal Investigators as well as Victor Lazlo the surgeon, the teacher, the garbage man etc.

This is why parrallel worlds are so commonly used in sci-fi to explain away almost anything. A really good book based on these ideas is Frederick Pohls' "Coming of the Quantum Cats".

I see pre-Rifts earth as being quite close to ours, even apart from Cyberworks etc., if it was HU wouldn't there be a lot more refrences to Super Heroes, Aliens and things that others here have pointed out.

I just realised one problem though, Lo Fung the dragon is from BTS and survived the Rifts and then meet Lazlo again at the gathering of Heros. Almost proof that Rifts earth is either BTS or a very close parallel to it.

[Zer0 Kay]

I seriously wonder how different your reply is to how Victor Lazlo would be treated by the International Scientific Community or the World Tribunal on International Interstelar Phenomenon would treat him. Could you imagine if scientists were to dismiss the orbit of Haley's Comet in the same method that incedents of other global events, like JFK's assassination or Ceasar's assassination, what would happen? No one would know anything at all. I can easily see how Victor Lazlo would get easily frustrated with humanity's arrogance and incompetence.

If Victor Lazlo ever made it back to his time or if he was just giving a speech in his time then he would probably be viewed just like Dr. Daniel Jackson in Stargate (The Movie). Viewed by the IGPP (International Group on Parapsycological Phenomenon) [made up I think] would probably belive it but then again their likely seen as crackpots by the rest of the scientists any way

[grandmaster z0b]

I've been living at my GF's place for the last two weeks so I haven't had access to my Rifts books, but I'm sure that there is a cannon answer to this question in either Rifts Africa or Triax and the NGR under the description of Victor Lazlo. If someone else has access to it I'd love to know exactly what it says.
Also there are hints in the Conversion book that not only are characters from HU from another time they are also from another dimension.
I think that KS has simply taken his favorite ideas from different games set in a contemporary type world and amalgamated them together for Rifts. That dosen't mean that they are infact the same dimension or that the different dimensions "fused" together at the time of Rifts, it's just KS's artistic license.