How do you handle pitched battles?

[Hotrod]

One of the most cumbersome parts of playing Palladium Fantasy for me is handling combat. When there are only 3 or 4 parties involved, it's not too terribly difficult, and I have certain methods for keeping things fast, but when my players take on 10 or more opponents, things get bogged down in a hurry. For large battles, I try to avoid combat for my players as much as possible.

How do you all handle the big fights, siege warfare, field battles, etc?

[dark brandon]

One of the most cumbersome parts of playing Palladium Fantasy for me is handling combat. When there are only 3 or 4 parties involved, it's not too terribly difficult, and I have certain methods for keeping things fast, but when my players take on 10 or more opponents, things get bogged down in a hurry. For large battles, I try to avoid combat for my players as much as possible.

How do you all handle the big fights, siege warfare, field battles, etc?

I've gone the "video game route" with huge battle warfares. Basically, I look at all possible enemies for our heros and assign them a number. Where as a human soldier= 1 pt a Vampire will = 25 (assuming they are unprepared to fight the undead) and a certain number of kills to get past a certain other "point".

For example, your group is helping to ley siege to a town. The battle starts without them. Now they can try to use cunning and stealth to get through. Maybe find a sewer line. But if they cannot or decide to go through the main gate, then they will have to earn about 25pts. Basically, they initiate the combat. they charge a soldier who is one point, so, I then balance it out (so they don't just go one soldier at a time). 3 more soldiers join in. If they can defeat them (maybe not kill) they've earned 4 pts. and after they've earned 25pts. they can get through and run down the streets. Usually they will have a target to go for. A mad mage, a large balrog, A glitterboy pilot. Down each street I asign a point value. Of course this can be avoided with stealth, but they can't walk through it. it's too crowded or someone will attack them.

One other thing to do is allow them to help other combatants. for example they say "what do we see"

you say, "You see a large scale war going on. you notice a vampire just finishing off a human soldier, 3 evil soldiers running about. You also see a group of human longbowmen who look in trouble who are getting attacked by gargs, a group of soldiers who are on the retreat but can't get away from another group of soldiers...ect".

The group could chose to attack the vampire (and thus allowing them entry into the city) or they can help out the longbowmen or soldiers. If they do this they can call them up for help later (important in war when your armor is wearing thin). Of course, your players never know the nessissary point value of anything.

"We try to get through the main gain"

you say, "there is just no real way to get through it right now, the battle is heavy and tight. you can clear a path if you like, or find another way around"

and then of course have a goal. Something that when they complete will turn the tide of battle (if that fits into your game).

Oh, another thing. I stress always "Not to make yourself a target or stand out". If there is a ground battle, and someone casts fly as an eagel, then I focus most of my abilities on this one character. Longbowmen will fire at them, mages will find him a nice target. And not to pick too many fights. IE. Joe attacks the soldier that calls in 3 more soldiers. But bob went and messed with a longbow man. Now the group has both the 3 soldiers and the 3 longbow men to play with. (of course, these groups will only attack the person who attacked them, so if the rest of the group has no interest to help them, they are good to go).

[Borast]

I hide...



Seriously...



When that doesn't work...I run it on either how I need it to go (for campaign reasons), or base the outcome of the battle on how the PLAYERS are doing (if they're doing well, their side rallies, and drives forth the badguys, etc...).

[Nekira Sudacne]

I rollplay the characters though their indivudial battles. sure, they will be thousands fighting, but the PC's won't know how it's all going. they will and can only know the 1-6 thier fighting personally right now. they don't have TIME to look around to see what everyone else is doing.

as for the battle as a whole, that's decided by Storyline, with some exceptions made if the PC's do something exceptional. like kill the enemy leader/general.

all in all, as heroic as the PC's are, they can only affect so much on a battle of that scale, and are but a drop in the bucket.

that is, unless your playing an uber-muchkin campagin.

[Veknironth]

Well, if it's the players vs 10 foes, that can be handled. You have to keep careful track of who has attacks left and how many hit points each person has. I suggest going attack action by attack action. Usually, most people will have the same number of attacks or close enough to prevent someone from having a lot of attacks at the end of the round.

For larger groups, like sieges, etc I will fall back on my Origins experience. I was in a game where there was a seige. The 1st time the GM ran it, the PC's were sort of directing things and we were worrying about the large scale events like warlock magic and catapults. IT was a very quick and dirty style. The other way was to have the battle rage on around the PC's and have them responsible for some small skirmish that would drastically affect the outcome of the battle. That was how the 2nd adventure was run. I think both had very enjoyable results

-Vek
"Oh my gosh, I forgot my quote and had to edit this in!"

[Adam of the Old Kingdom]

my sugestion is similar to some above.

in a battle, the PCs only need worry about where they are. the rest of the battle goes by general story based on the players activities, but the PC have to feel they are making a difference.

if the players are being overwelmedthey could be the cause their part of the line to draw back or be breached. que story point for reinforcements, if the players are in charge they may need to send a runner, if not a local leader will do this.

if the players make ground, they may cause a fall back and a breach of the enemy lines. again are reinforcements brought in to rout the foes or to shore up the breach.

in this way a small section of the battle line depends on the playes, but you can use NPCs to add the desired support and create tention as slowly the PCs forces dwindle. though they can't see how bad it is on the other side.

when things get tight, if the PC's don't think up a plan, the local leader may charge the PCs with some "night activities".
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for larger battles with PC commanders, modifying some board games may be the go, like samurai sword or axis and allies. or some other more to your liking.

[Borast]

Sounds like fun...

Where we gonna find a gym and 46 mutually available hours?

[Veknironth]

Well, I can easily figure out how to have the battle between 5 palladins and the 6,000 western soldiers. The soldiers charge, maybe 5 of them are killed and then the palladins are driven under the press of the bodies and they are trampled. It would take at most 1 minute.

-Vek
"Honestly, 6,000 on 5?"

[Cranus]

When I run large battles, I focus on running what the PC's are doing. The outcome of the battle depends on both what the PC's do and a general determination. At this time, I am considering using the rules in the Rifter for when I do need to run such a battle. However, I don't know when the next game will be

Small number of PC's vs an army: the army wins. I like PFRPG for its pseudo-realism. If I wanted to play over-the-top small numbers defeat a horde, I would play either D&D or Exalted.

[Borast]

That's one thing I like about AD&D...they wrote two little "rules" in a Dragon somewhere ages ago...

First, a fighter can attack a level "0" creature his level of times a round, pretty much guaranteeing a kill. However, if a dozen 0 level humans / kobolds / etc. attack a fully armed and armoured 50th level knight, the knight is dead, since the peasants / kobolds / etc overbear him and automatically kill him. After a first few times, characters begin to realise...mobs are DANGEROUS!

Personally, I'd simply adopt the same for overlarge melees in Palladium...the PC may kill the first dozen, but the other 36 people jumping him pull him down and kill him, no save, do not pass go, do not collect 200 gold coins.