Dino Swamp: Reviewed

[Todd Yoho]

Thanks for the honest, heart-felt review. I appreciate the candid feedback. I'm beat because I just got back from Gencon (literally!), but did want to say thanks.

[Carl Gleba]

I just have a problem with the cover art! It's a big Dinosaur, with metal in it's mouth. A little too cartoony for me. That is what has stopped me from picking it up. Granted I have the Mechenoids book with it's lame cover. I want to really see the stops pulled out on a cover. I love Free Quebeec, Japan, the Tolkin Wars, I guess I just can't get into this book's cover. However, I'm sure I will eventually buy it just to get a feel for the author and fill that hole in my Rifts world book wall mounting.

You can't judge a book by its cover ! Well you can but geez!

Carl

[Josh Sinsapaugh]

I rate it at a 10+. Best world book since Splynn.

(I haven't checked out either China yet so I can't put them in the equation)

[Todd Yoho]

I've still got to wonder why Georgia is so bloody desolate, especially the areas north of Atlanta. There's enough good farmland, military bases, and farming folks up here to at least maintain some semblence of technology. Also, Macon will likely be a suburb of Atlanta by 2050, much less 2098.

A lot of people underestimate the damage that the Cataclysm would have inflicted on the east coast. Combine that with a total breakdown of infrastructure, mass panic, monsters from the rifts and just the problems that result from the end of the world, there's no reason for any of the above to survive. As far as I'm concerned, it's a wilderness. Individual games don't necessarily have to reflect that.

And, to be sure, I'm ok with that. Dinosaur Swamp is written in the flavor that I use when running Rifts. It just to happened that Kevin found it agreeable, too.

Is Dinosaur Swamp set in 80PA or later?

Yes. Although it doesn't have to be. I personally think DS could be used as a Chaos Earth sourcebook.

What became of the CDC or any of the other scientific/military infrastructure in the area of Atlanta itself?

Again, there's nothing to say that any of it had to survive. I honestly thought about having Atlanta being a complete deadzone thanks to the CDC. Right now, it's wide open, a potential hotbed of True Atlantean/Sunaj machinations with a tribe of barbarians and rat-men caught in the middle. The CDC and other installations could play a future roll. Play it how you like it in your games, or you can wait for the DS sourcebook...

And what are your thoughts on Northern Alabama - is the GAW rebuilding this as a nation (there's enough going on here to lead that way) or did that region just happen to be spared the worst of the cataclysm?

I'm waiting until Merctown comes out before I touch this one.

I do wish the book did not referance "300 years have passed" from Chaos Earth though. I always thought that time was too short, and I really think Palladium should start trying to cut the connection between CE and RIFTS.

Neither DS nor Chaos Earth are the first to put forth the 300 years time frame. Both Mutants In Orbit and WB5: Triax and the NGR refer it. In fact, Triax specifically states on page 22 that "exactly 291 years have passed since the ley lines exploded and shook the planet."

I just have a problem with the cover art! It's a big Dinosaur, with metal in it's mouth. A little too cartoony for me.

My first impression was that it was kind of "campy," but I'm also a big fan of action serials/60's comics/Turok/Kamandi and other such stories, so it's really grown on me. However, I would say that the inside is much grittier than the cover leads you to believe.

Again, thanks to everyone for commenting on the book.

[Dr. Doom III]

You forget the Angel of Death.
She was alive during the coming of the Rifts.

[Dr. Doom III]

But alternate worlds suck.

[Hystrix]

Is Dinosaur Swamp set in 80PA or later?


Yes. Although it doesn't have to be. I personally think DS could be used as a Chaos Earth sourcebook.

Carl, are you saying Dino Swamp is set in 80 PA, or is it set anytime betwwen 80 PA and 109 PA?

[Carl Gleba]

Is Dinosaur Swamp set in 80PA or later?


Yes. Although it doesn't have to be. I personally think DS could be used as a Chaos Earth sourcebook.

Carl, are you saying Dino Swamp is set in 80 PA, or is it set anytime betwwen 80 PA and 109 PA?

Me? Do you mean Todd?

I think the book is set in 109 PA.

Carl

[Hystrix]

Is Dinosaur Swamp set in 80PA or later?


Yes. Although it doesn't have to be. I personally think DS could be used as a Chaos Earth sourcebook.

Carl, are you saying Dino Swamp is set in 80 PA, or is it set anytime betwwen 80 PA and 109 PA?

Me? Do you mean Todd?

I think the book is set in 109 PA.

Carl

Oops, my bad. I get you guys mixed up all the time. Yes, I knew Todd Yoho wrote Dinosaur Swamp. But thanks, Carl...

[Todd Yoho]

DS is overall written as of 109 PA. However, the oft quoted passages by Neenok are dated around 80 PA.

[PigLickJF]

Actually, I think 300 years is plenty of time passed from the human perspective for the differnces between Golden Age and ~100 PA. I'm guessing average life expectancy for the humans alive and born in the few decades immediately following the coming of the Rifts was reduced dramatically, probably down into the 30s. Society has changed almost as much (in some places more, probably) in the last 300 or so years of the real world as in the 300 years between the coming of the Rifts and the current Rifts timeline. And that's without a nuclear war followed by huge global catastrophes killing off the vast majority of humans on the Earth and rifts in space and time opening up, releasing who knows what ungodly horrors, not to mention the return of magic. Any one of those factors is enough to create huge changes in human societies, let alone all of them happening at the same time.

PigLick

[Carl Gleba]

Is Dinosaur Swamp set in 80PA or later?


Yes. Although it doesn't have to be. I personally think DS could be used as a Chaos Earth sourcebook.

Carl, are you saying Dino Swamp is set in 80 PA, or is it set anytime betwwen 80 PA and 109 PA?

Me? Do you mean Todd?

I think the book is set in 109 PA.

Carl

Oops, my bad. I get you guys mixed up all the time. Yes, I knew Todd Yoho wrote Dinosaur Swamp. But thanks, Carl...

No problem bud! You can call me Todd Yoho, just keep buying Carl Gleba's books too!

Carl

[The Raven]

Time to jump in late on this...
As to people having a 200 year lifespan before the Cataclysm. So maybe they might have, but that was with medicine, technology, and a relatively stable society. Remove the medicine and the lifespan is going to drop like mad. Remove the tech and it will drop further. Throw in slobbering monsters from other universes and the lifespan drops to almost zero. From studying history, when the Romans pulled out of Britain, the lifespan there dropped by about half. That was just from removing stability. Even with normal Terran (earth) diseases that are common now a lot of the population would drop, not to mention all the fun diseases brought from other universes by dimensional travellers. Throw in old diseases, such as the black plague, which would make a resugence in Rifts, and cholera, not to uncommon now but was epidemic in the past, and you have a recipe for lifespans that are short.
Even at the beginning of the 20th Century when things were stable, medicine was coming along nicely, and tech was advancing like mad, the average lifespan was well below what it is now (2004).
So 300 years is easily enough time for things to radically change and things to be dimly remembered legends and stories. Look at other sci-fi games and shows. Most range from 300 to a 1000 years in the future, or even further (such as up to 40,000 years in the future). And even in those 300 years in the future shows, everything has radically changed, and things from now are facts with most of the time nothing to back them up.

[The Raven]

They also use differant concepts, and in most cases are not post-apocolyptic and trying to claim everything is gone. They also aren't working from the base that RIFTS is, or trying to claim that all of these outrageous things happened within such a short span.

For example, in Warhammer 40k (which is what your referancing), civilization is still going (it's brutal and bloody, but it's still there). While most people think that knowledge of the past is gone, it really isn't. Groups like the Adeptus Mechanus, and the Elite of the Inquisition are sitting on it.

Plus it's not just 40k years in the future, it's 40k years since the "Horus Heresy" if I remember correctly and the development of what became the current 'Imperium' (with the dissolution of the Space Marines into seperate chapters, etc...).

Even in Star Trek things from the 20th Century are unknown. Look at the rapid backpedalling of tech in Star Trek First Contact. I'm willing to bet that within the first 100 years after the cataclysm, there were 4-5 generations, whereas now, that would be 2-3.

And no, in WH40k, they don't know what the crap happened further in the past then 10,000 years ago. The Empereor arose then, conquered Holy Terra and brought mankind out of the Dark Age of Technology. The Heresy happened two thousand years later. Hell, even in WH40k, things can dramatically happen in less then 300 years. The Tyranid Hive fleets turned the world upside down, the second and third wars for Armagedon...

Back to Rifts and reality. How many generations have there been since the 1704 in North America? I don't even want to think about that. It's been three generations or there abouts since World War 2, and there are massive details about that have been forgotten. How many people know that Japanese troops landed and held North America soil for two years during the war? Aleutian campaign, go look it up. Even in the last three hundred years we have had ultra-stable socities, no massive upheveals or massive population deaths. But yet, how many people have the skills people had back then. I wonder how many people on this forum would be able to grow their own food, slaughter a cow, build a table without power tools, or fight off their neighbor who wants to eat them since they are starving. Take an even higher tech society and throw them to the Dark Ages. Modern society has a 3-4 days before it decends into anarchy that is constantly held at bay. Cut off the food, water, and power to anywhere and in less then a week, that area will pulling itself apart under people doing whatever it takes to get food and clean water. Look at how much support it takes to clean up after a hurricane, now remove that support and you get a small inkling of what would have happened right after the Cataclysm. Whole areas would be depopulated, disease would run rampant, no food, no clean water, slobbering monsters from Rifts wandering around eating people, mobs of doomsayers wandering the streets proclaiming the end of the world, and the opportunists trying to take advantage of people or take over. Shelter would be rare, and when the Cataclysm struck it was middle of winter. Whether that means rain and cold or snow and cold, either way, technophites will not know what to do. The higher a socity is on the technology tree, when it falls, it falls further and harder. A society from the 1700's would be more likely to survive the Cataclysm then a modern society. People could grow their own food, make their own weapons, and survive. And now food is bought, most peope have no clue where their food comes from. Most people have no clue how to use a knife as a weapon. Most people could not build any sort of shelter. I've seen people from New York City come to where I live, look around, and wonder just why everyone seems to have a few months worth of food, knows how to make shelters (whether this be a lean-to, or building a house). Basic first aid is not a very common thing in most large cities. Cut off the nice ultra-tech medical facilities for more then a week and have tons of people coming in, and in less then, I would say, 3 days and you have a facility that is useless. Chaos Earth before the Cataclysm is even more dependant on technology and power then now. Cut off that power and it goes to hell.

As to all the other things happening, can you name all the major and minor occurances in the last three hundred years? I don't know of anyone who can. As to saying the Sphinx and Pyramids are being sandblasted everyday, I would say not. Sandblasting is like 80-100psi wind, which would flense the flesh from peoples' bones. A gradual blowing of sand is nowhere near as errosive as the water. I've seen pictures of the mountain areas around where I live, and rivers have carved new paths in them in the last 100 years. And this is the water running over granite, not sandstone or soil. It's carved a 6-8ft deep path for itself. Take 300 years of that and we are talking almost nothing from now will survive. Wind and sand are nothing compared to water and wind. A storm gutter on the side of the road here will be erroded like crazy in less then 20 years. And that is concrete, which suppedly is harder the stone. Kick the elemental factos on society up by about 1000% and you come close to what would have been going on during the Cataclysm.

Enough talking in this post. I will talk more later on this if people want more commentary.

And also don't add stuff to a quote. Distorting what I have said to include your rebuttal makes you look somewhat foolish.

[Sureshot]

I just can't see all of what is mentioned in the books happening over just the span of 300 hundred years or less. I see it more along the lines of 500-600 years. I can also see civilization in rifts reduced to the dark ages by then too. By then pretty much all the tech has run out due to shortages, lack of spare parts and/or lack of knowledge. Those with enhanced lifespans have probably passed away by then too. It would also give all those monster kingdoms enough time to entrench themselves like they have in the current timeline.

[Carl Gleba]

They also use differant concepts, and in most cases are not post-apocolyptic and trying to claim everything is gone. They also aren't working from the base that RIFTS is, or trying to claim that all of these outrageous things happened within such a short span.

For example, in Warhammer 40k (which is what your referancing), civilization is still going (it's brutal and bloody, but it's still there). While most people think that knowledge of the past is gone, it really isn't. Groups like the Adeptus Mechanus, and the Elite of the Inquisition are sitting on it.

Plus it's not just 40k years in the future, it's 40k years since the "Horus Heresy" if I remember correctly and the development of what became the current 'Imperium' (with the dissolution of the Space Marines into seperate chapters, etc...).

Even in Star Trek things from the 20th Century are unknown. Look at the rapid backpedalling of tech in Star Trek First Contact. I'm willing to bet that within the first 100 years after the cataclysm, there were 4-5 generations, whereas now, that would be 2-3.

And no, in WH40k, they don't know what the crap happened further in the past then 10,000 years ago. The Empereor arose then, conquered Holy Terra and brought mankind out of the Dark Age of Technology. The Heresy happened two thousand years later. Hell, even in WH40k, things can dramatically happen in less then 300 years. The Tyranid Hive fleets turned the world upside down, the second and third wars for Armagedon...

Back to Rifts and reality. How many generations have there been since the 1704 in North America? I don't even want to think about that. It's been three generations or there abouts since World War 2, and there are massive details about that have been forgotten. How many people know that Japanese troops landed and held North America soil for two years during the war? Aleutian campaign, go look it up. Even in the last three hundred years we have had ultra-stable socities, no massive upheveals or massive population deaths. But yet, how many people have the skills people had back then. I wonder how many people on this forum would be able to grow their own food, slaughter a cow, build a table without power tools, or fight off their neighbor who wants to eat them since they are starving. Take an even higher tech society and throw them to the Dark Ages. Modern society has a 3-4 days before it decends into anarchy that is constantly held at bay. Cut off the food, water, and power to anywhere and in less then a week, that area will pulling itself apart under people doing whatever it takes to get food and clean water. Look at how much support it takes to clean up after a hurricane, now remove that support and you get a small inkling of what would have happened right after the Cataclysm. Whole areas would be depopulated, disease would run rampant, no food, no clean water, slobbering monsters from Rifts wandering around eating people, mobs of doomsayers wandering the streets proclaiming the end of the world, and the opportunists trying to take advantage of people or take over. Shelter would be rare, and when the Cataclysm struck it was middle of winter. Whether that means rain and cold or snow and cold, either way, technophites will not know what to do. The higher a socity is on the technology tree, when it falls, it falls further and harder. A society from the 1700's would be more likely to survive the Cataclysm then a modern society. People could grow their own food, make their own weapons, and survive. And now food is bought, most peope have no clue where their food comes from. Most people have no clue how to use a knife as a weapon. Most people could not build any sort of shelter. I've seen people from New York City come to where I live, look around, and wonder just why everyone seems to have a few months worth of food, knows how to make shelters (whether this be a lean-to, or building a house). Basic first aid is not a very common thing in most large cities. Cut off the nice ultra-tech medical facilities for more then a week and have tons of people coming in, and in less then, I would say, 3 days and you have a facility that is useless. Chaos Earth before the Cataclysm is even more dependant on technology and power then now. Cut off that power and it goes to hell.

As to all the other things happening, can you name all the major and minor occurances in the last three hundred years? I don't know of anyone who can. As to saying the Sphinx and Pyramids are being sandblasted everyday, I would say not. Sandblasting is like 80-100psi wind, which would flense the flesh from peoples' bones. A gradual blowing of sand is nowhere near as errosive as the water. I've seen pictures of the mountain areas around where I live, and rivers have carved new paths in them in the last 100 years. And this is the water running over granite, not sandstone or soil. It's carved a 6-8ft deep path for itself. Take 300 years of that and we are talking almost nothing from now will survive. Wind and sand are nothing compared to water and wind. A storm gutter on the side of the road here will be erroded like crazy in less then 20 years. And that is concrete, which suppedly is harder the stone. Kick the elemental factos on society up by about 1000% and you come close to what would have been going on during the Cataclysm.

Enough talking in this post. I will talk more later on this if people want more commentary.

And also don't add stuff to a quote. Distorting what I have said to include your rebuttal makes you look somewhat foolish.

Sounds about right to me

Carl

[The Raven]

No, things from the 20th century are not unknown in Star Trek, as they have proven time and time again with holodeck simulations and the like.

You've had Sisko pull out famous ballplayers to play against, you've had James-Bond-type 20th century simulations, and you've had the Holodeck go 'out of control', extrapolating it's own additions to programs based on the 20th century Databases.

Jean Luc Picard's favorite simulation is a 20th century detective novel.

Yet when Sisko, Bashir, and Dax end up in the past, only Sisko knows what is going on and only knows what the history books have said. The Holodeck incidents were based off books made after the 20th Century. They say in one episode that Dixon Hill was written in the 21st Century. And the Bond thing was a spoof. I can see things like DVDs and such surviving and having entire colleges devoted to their study.

They have such intense databases on the past that they were able to find an obscure C-grade Drama Novel (Casino Royale or whatever) when they found an alien simulation of it on a planet.

ANd that novel was another one written during the 21st Century. Wow, when Tom Paris and Tuvok on Voyager end up in 1998 on Earth, even Paris who is a 20th Century history-buff doesn't know all the details. Kira and O'Brein in the 60's had no clue what the Hippies were about. Kirk and Spock didn't have a clue how to drive a car and Kirk had only heard about them in history books. See Star Trek 4 for a prime example of how little they knew.

Have you read the novels. Probably not.

Actually I have read nearly all the cannonical WH40k novels. If you are refering to the Inquisitor Draco novels, they are according to GW no longer valid material. The Adeptus Mechanicus sends in teams to the archives, which may have everything back til now, but nearly all those teams vanish, get eaten, or go insane. The oldest STC databases they have found they have no dates on them. They are just there, they are partial databases from the Dark Age of Technology. "Dark Age of Technology" is the term they use for the time before the Emperor arose on Terra and during the Dark Age, no one kept records.

All of what you mention would explain why the population would be decimated. But it would not explain the loss of all knowledge to the extent being portrayed within RIFTS.

Ok, databases will hold most of the info. Turn off the power and expose the hardware to the elements and what happens? All of that precious information is lost. Add in libraries being looted for materail to burn to stay warm. Information will be lost. Do you know how long it took Europe to regain the knowledge lost when the Goths and Visigoths sacked and burned Rome? Try about 1000 years. The Romans had primitive steam engines (in the form of toys). The burning of Alexandria is another example of this.

Noone is denying that the majority of people eventually regressed back to a 'rural' existance with normal lifespans. The problem here is how long it took.

Remember, this is so far in the future that everything we see around us now has been eroded by nature.

Nature in an unabated form will destroy anything. There are town in Brazil that were abandoned during the last 70's and there are almost no traces of them now. The concrete highways leading to them have crumbled and been eroded away. And this is less then 30 years with nature not being out of control.

The Rise and Fall of Psyscape also isn't going to be some obscure, and easily forgotten event if it happened within that span of a few generations.

Ok, tell me how much you would know about what is going on in the world without television, radios, the internet, newspapers, and other such mass media sources? You would know what is happening maybe within two weeks old. Add in the fact that no one is going to do much travelling with all the weather being screwed up, monsters roaming about, and the possibilty of just walking along and walking into an alien universe.

Besides with the RIFTS lifespans there might be a lot of deaths, but a lot of people are going to survive a mere 300 years given what they are. People with bionic conversion for example... almost nothing you mention above is especially relevent to them.

Cyborgs need maintenance, just like a car. Remove the maintenance and what is going to happen to said cyborg? He's going to keel over and die. And an enhanced lifespan is with all the modern medical technologies.

Even if 90% or more of the population dies, the surviving 10% are still going to have enhanced lifespans. That means that in a mere 300 years there are going to be plenty of old B@stages sitting aorund who remember what happened first hand.

Right now, a large number of people every year have problems with heart disease. Remove the modern medicine and all those people will die. Think about how many people will be kept alive through post-modern medicine in the Chaos Earth timeline. Remove that incredible medicine and all those people who would live out a nice long life through chemistry... They would all die. Most of our lifespan now is through medicine. Add in the fact that said person maybe more likely to live longer through genetic engineering, that is not going to keep them alive with alien diseases, monsters, and bandits. Stability makes a lifespan longer, remove that stability in the form of medicine, law, technology, and I don't care how long they might live, they won't live that long. Malnutrition, more strain on the body, common diseases will reduce the lifespan.

On top of this your overlooking the obvious. Society isn't going to collapse instantly due to an apocolypse. The NEMA concept is fine, the problem is the time frame between it and the normal RIFTs continuity.

People are not going to instantly find themselves having to exist as borderline cave men. Rather modern people are going to keep the things that have going, the remaints of the military and goverment are going to try and organize the shattered remaints of things that are left, and things are going to slowly dwindle away from there. All of which takes time. This slow death means that people are going to gradually learn the things they need to know to survive as things gradually fall apart.

Society will fall apart the moment you lost power. Everything now depends on electricity. Notice how badly screwed up the North Eastern part of North America were during the blackouts in the 60's and last year (2003). Water pumps for cities don't work without power. Natural gas pumps don't work without power. Gasoline pumps don't work without power. Everything is dependant on electricity. And in a post modern society, that dependance will be even more pronouced.

As to people going back to cavemen, no they won't. They will regress to a level aking to 14th centruty Europe. Government in Chaos Earth is gone. Gone gone gone gone gone. Washington DC and FEMA (the Federal Emergency Managment Agency) are washed out to sea. Norad is buried under the remnants of the Yellowstone super-volcano. State government has no communications with the majority of the areas they are supposed to control. City and town governments will collapse almost instantly without support from the state and federal governments. And as to spare parts for things, they will run out quickly without large factories to support them. Look at how many parts of your car you have to replace in 1-5 years. In 5 years without doing large amounts of maintanance that require significant parts (such as oil, which will be rare beyond words) any car will be scrap. Even if it is electric powered, without power, that car is useless. People are going to dropped instantly having to learn how to make their own clothes, grow their own food, make their own tools. People will fight for nessicities of life and destroy those things if they can't have them. "If I can't have it, no one will" is a very common sentiment amongst people everywhere. Why do you think militaries engage in scorched earth tactics. The military will be useless in very short order. Without regular shipments of spare parts and equipment, even a nuclear powered military is screwed. "Amateurs discuss tactics, professionals discuss logistics" is a quote by Napoleon Bonaparte. It applied then, it applies now, and it will apply in the future.

To be brutally honest with you, I am not even sure if a mere 3 generations or so is going to be enough for the remaints of civilization to fall. Never mind seeing civilization fall into total barbarity, be rebuilt, and then fall into barbarity again.

See my above statements on why there will be more then 3 generations and why those generation will not be worrying about trying to keep alive the knowledge of the past. They will be too busy trying, and for the most part failing, to stay alive.

You don't need to. We're talking about a total ignorance of the past here. Not people who simply can't recall who the 22nd President Of The United States was.

If you are too busy trying day in and day out to grow food, not be eaten by a large ansty thing, and not being shot by your neighbor for your crops, you aren't going to be busy teaching your kids how to be a scientist. You will be teaching how to plow the field, grow corn, and shoot a rifle. Wow, this sounds like the old west. It wasn't until the earky 20th century that people had free time for the most part. Most people were too busy trying to make a living and have enough food to eat to have free time to dedicate to things like science, medicine, art, and literacy. Most third world nations where the population is just trying to grow enough food to eat have pitiful literacy rates. Go read National Geographic, watch TLC or the Dicovery channel and see how people outside of a nation able to grow a surplus of food live. See how people that make up 90% of the world's population live, then you will see how a population without power exists.

Again, I disagree. If what you were saying was accurate things like "The Great Wall Of China" not to mention other ancient ruins would be totally gone.

It's just not happening in 300 years.

Maybe with weather now. But add in massive tectonic upheavels, storms that make anything now look tame (they make reference in Mutants in Orbit to storms that cover entire continents), and anything we have seen now will be put to shame. Look at certain areas of Mexico City after the big earthquake back in the '80s. There are areas there where the ruins are weathered to the point of nothingness.

Wind and sand are nothing compared to water and wind. A storm gutter on the side of the road here will be erroded like crazy in less then 20 years. And that is concrete, which suppedly is harder the stone. Kick the elemental factos on society up by about 1000% and you come close to what would have been going on during the Cataclysm.

Doubtful.

Go read about the massive storms that hit after the Rifts. Think about what a Class 4 hurricane did to Florida, now imagine something 5 times more powerful going across North America. Imagine Tornados ripping through cities. Imagine rain storms that don't abbate for days (which would come from that much ecological shifting). Nature is not our friend, she's a fickle and destructive mistress everyone learns to fear.

Actually your the one whose trying to argue something rather silly. I haven't 'added' anything to your quotes. Although I have been having a few problems with the quote system recently which are causing my messages to run together with the quoting. Odd since up until a couple months ago I never had this problem here.

Notice how I cut this post into pieces and put my commentary inside your quotes without making it look like you are saying all of it. Learn the HTML forum tags. This forum software is used everywhere.

[The Raven]

Sounds about right to me

Carl

Coming from a published Palladium writer, this means a great deal to me. Too bad the majority of the people on this list can't see the obvious.

[Todd Yoho]

Coming from a published Palladium writer, this means a great deal to me. Too bad the majority of the people on this list can't see the obvious.

And you're basically covering all the points that I would make as well.

[Carl Gleba]

Sounds about right to me

Carl

Coming from a published Palladium writer, this means a great deal to me. Too bad the majority of the people on this list can't see the obvious.

Your points all seem well thought out and make sense to me at least. Besides it's not called the Great Cataclysm because it was some nice fire works display. Hopefully we'll never know what its like to have a society break down, but we really just don't know how much time would have to pass before or present becomes someone's ancient history.

We like to think our way of life will endure forever (at least I do), but even in the worst of times things can change drastically.

Just keep in mind that everyone will have their own opinions on this and both sides of this debate seemed to have thought it out.

No sense in beating this topic to death.

Carl

[The Raven]

Hence why the protected/hardened facilities like Lone Star, Aberdeen, and NORAD are of great value. Elements do not affect the functioning of anything here and thus equipment is salvagable, note Dinosaur Swamp and the Cape facilities.

BTW, does anyone have a favorite for *which* space station is supposedly contacted and do you guys think it would have any impact on how the people up there view Earth?

NORAD is gone in Rifts. Either the place got buried by the Yellowstone super-volcano or got caught in the blast from it. Either way, after 300 years the place is a null-issue. 99.99999% chance that no one will be alive, and if there is anyone still alive, we are talking I wouldn't want to see them (300 years without sun, worshipping military manuals...)

Quite possibly none of them. Look at all the people now who claim to talk to UFOs, space aliens, and Elvis.

[The Raven]

I'd like to ask one question:

WHY???????

NO ONE ASKED FOR THIS BOOK???

So why, Kevin, why?

The book hasn't sold in my local game shop, because the smallRift group NEVER wanted it. Other not-so-local places still have most of their original order, there's nothing in that book that makes it go, "WOW! I have cool stuff! Buy me!"

Stupid me, thought China did...

Whereas at the local gaming store sold out of their first shipment in a couple days. Were you looking for tech stuff? I don't personally think we need more tech groups. Expansions on the existing ones need fleshing out badly in my opinion. I've wondered about the area down there myself, but I've been too lazy to flesh it out myself. So maybe your area it isn't selling, but elsewhere it is. Don't assume your area shows everything there is.

[Syndicate]

Sorry, didn't read like...80% of the posts here. Just wanted to say that I purchased Dinosaur Swamp today, and very glad I did so...

[Carl Gleba]

I'd like to ask one question:

WHY???????

NO ONE ASKED FOR THIS BOOK???

So why, Kevin, why?

The book hasn't sold in my local game shop, because the smallRift group NEVER wanted it. Other not-so-local places still have most of their original order, there's nothing in that book that makes it go, "WOW! I have cool stuff! Buy me!"

Stupid me, thought China did...

Because Dinosaur Swamp was mentioned in the core rulebook and I for one have wanted it since then. Second you have a talented writer like Todd who has a passion for paleontology and I think you have a great world book. I don't see how a book that helps to flesh out a setting is a problem. It's a new local that spawns all kinds of ideas for adventure. Plus you have your first truly apocalyptic city (Char), which I love and would like to see more cities like that.

At least give it a try.

Carl

[Jason Richards]

Because Dinosaur Swamp was mentioned in the core rulebook and I for one have wanted it since then. Second you have a talented writer like Todd who has a passion for paleontology and I think you have a great world book. I don't see how a book that helps to flesh out a setting is a problem. It's a new local that spawns all kinds of ideas for adventure. Plus you have your first truly apocalyptic city (Char), which I love and would like to see more cities like that.

At least give it a try.

Carl

And, from what I know, it's selling very well.

[Carl Gleba]

Because Dinosaur Swamp was mentioned in the core rulebook and I for one have wanted it since then. Second you have a talented writer like Todd who has a passion for paleontology and I think you have a great world book. I don't see how a book that helps to flesh out a setting is a problem. It's a new local that spawns all kinds of ideas for adventure. Plus you have your first truly apocalyptic city (Char), which I love and would like to see more cities like that.

At least give it a try.

Carl

And, from what I know, it's selling very well.

That's what I've heard as well. Go...YOHO!!

Carl

[Jason Richards]

Because Dinosaur Swamp was mentioned in the core rulebook and I for one have wanted it since then. Second you have a talented writer like Todd who has a passion for paleontology and I think you have a great world book. I don't see how a book that helps to flesh out a setting is a problem. It's a new local that spawns all kinds of ideas for adventure. Plus you have your first truly apocalyptic city (Char), which I love and would like to see more cities like that.

At least give it a try.

Carl

And, from what I know, it's selling very well.

That's what I've heard as well. Go...YOHO!!

Carl

Carl likes it, I like it, Todd clearly likes it... somebody get Carmen on the phone to get his stamp of approval!

[Dustin Fireblade]

I'd like to ask one question:

WHY???????

NO ONE ASKED FOR THIS BOOK???

So why, Kevin, why?

The book hasn't sold in my local game shop, because the smallRift group NEVER wanted it. Other not-so-local places still have most of their original order, there's nothing in that book that makes it go, "WOW! I have cool stuff! Buy me!"

Stupid me, thought China did...

Just to add to others, Dino Swamp has sold out at both my local game shops that I frequent.
On the other hand the China books have not moved at all (heck one store didn't even bother to carry either).

[Killer Cyborg]

I've asked for this book ever since Palladium started their annoying and pointless world tour of Rifts Earth.
My group couldn't care less about Africa, Russia, Japan, China or Australia because we're stuck in North America, much of which still has huge gaps in it.
The Dinosaur Swamps book was a long time coming and, although it isn't exactly what I would have written/wanted, it looks pretty good... better than any other Rifts book in years.

The only problem is that I can't quite bring myself to buy it.
The poor quality of books and constant rules changes lately has alienated my group from playing Rifts, so I don't think I'll get a chance to use it if I do buy it.
Still, I go to the store from time to time and wish it came out a few years sooner.