An alternate version of The Sentinels.......

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

Ok,

most of you by now know of my lack of love for The Sentinels as it was originally envisioned. I have an especial loathing for the novelization's portrayal of events. Of the myriad version, only the RPG comes closest in terms of how I think The Sentinels should have been handled...and it falls short simply because its based on Macek's wacked out version of events that contradicted numerous instances of Robotech's continuity. Thankfully it didn’t go as far as Macek did with certain aspects (the conflict with the REF being a war between the RDF/Hunter and the Army of the Southern Cross/Edwards). Most of the continuity flubs with The Sentinels would have come at the expense of The Robotech Masters segment of Robotech....something I CANNOT and WILL NOT abide.

There are certain aspects of The Sentinels that can be salvaged (alot of the mecha, vehicles and characters). Some, sadly, need to be relegated to trash pile of history: the Invid Scorpion carrier, the GMU as it is currently presented (redone to be more logical and it would be the PERFECT mobile tactical operations center of Robotech). The Invid Inorganics should be redone from top to bottom as far as design philosophy...and then turned into drones for the defense/policing of the Robotech Masters' worlds!

Now that I’ve finished my short rant, I would like to propose an alternate version of events of the Pioneer Mission, Earth Reclamation Forces and later Robotech Expeditionary Force. My apologies to Basara 549 and Dairugger XV...they've already read this over at the RDF HQ MB quite a while ago......

First and foremost, disabuse yourself of the notion that the Zentraedi EVER fought the Invid. They were fighting a rival group of Masters called The Disciples of Zor (not a terrorist organization either.....small insurgent groups do not begin offensives against massed military powers). The Invid, for their part, fled to another galaxy (maybe Small or Large Magellanic Cloud) based on what we know from the Tv series dialogue (being 'in the recesses of another galaxy) and what we visually see. They were not a threat to the Masters except towards the end of the 2nd Robotech War.

Second, the idea that the Pioneer Mission (or the later REF) found the homeworld of the Robotech Masters is much in doubt in the Tv series. Even in the opening of The Invid Invasion it only mentions that the expedition went to find the homeworld of the Masters (not that it was found). So, the main focus of the campaign (until the Pioneer Mission returns to Earth during the 2nd Robotech War) is to find Tirol. Open up the ‘Island Hopping’ idea and run with it.

With the exception of the Praxians, put all the alien cultures either in the waste basket (my vote for the Perytonians, and Care-bearans....err..Karbaarrans) or redesign them and their homeworlds (the Garudans and Haydonites) and save them for later. No Sentinel allies. This is a human and Zentraedi only area.

This means that until the end of the 2nd Robotech War, the Earth forces have neither heard of nor encountered the Invid. This prevents a dialogue flub with the fact that Supreme Commander Leonard says 'the Invid, whatever they are' in The Invid Connection. Since we don't have the Invid to whomp on for about 8 yrs (2022-2030) that leaves really only one group: the Zentraedi. The good thing is that this does not require the importation of non-Robotech based material (in other words...no needing to go look at the Macross universe for ideas).

There numerous designs over the years that could easily make 'new' versions of the enemy mecha. First, start with the Z-1 and Z-2. They already appeared to be enemy mecha based on the flight/fight simulation in The Sentinels video. They should be enemy mecha first and foremost and the most common ones at that. Artillery and Recon variants of the 'Tid-bitz' would be a good idea...and maybe a variant of the Z-2 wouldn’t be totally out of the question (merge the Zaria made OBP from Strike Force with the smaller Z-2 design). Keep the pilots and mecha micronized as it also helps with the UEF's initial conclusion during the 2nd Robotech War that the Masters were in fact a strain of micronized Zentraedi.

Next, take the 'Stinger' design from the old Malcontent Uprisings comics. Merge the Zaria missile computer system from Strike Force and upgrade the missile pods on the 'shoulders' to fire either medium range or short range plus a reload. Add missile packs to the arms, legs and back and you have a decent mecha (Greg Lane did the only pic of this mecha that didn't suck). For those that forgot what it looked like: http://img16.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img16&image=Stinger01.gif

The ZSB-20 Striker Battloid from Return of the Masters Revised can be offered as an alternate mecha either for female aces or male aces (depending upon how you use the Stinger). Remove the ammo driven weapons (minus missiles of course) and replace them with particle beam weapons and you’re good to go.

Finally, for mecha that have been designed, you need look no further than Basara 549's awesome Z-4 Assault Pod. I would suggest doing away with the Hovertank mode (no offense, Stan) and going with the Battloid and Officer’s Pod modes. Of course, I could be wrong and you may want a more balanced ground force (which is understandable).

There are some problems in that there isn’t a replacement for the Gnerl Fighter Pod or the Cyclops Theatre Scout. You’ll either need to cheat and not give graphics for it or learn to draw really well. Body armour and small arms will also be a problem. However, there was an old panel in The Sentinels comics that had REF soldiers wearing armour that looked very reminiscent to the Zentraedi Hard Vac Suit/Body Armour. I’ll try and dig up a pic and host it and leave a link here for you to see.

To replace the old Reentry Pod, there was a design for the GMU Dropship from The Sentinels comics that can be used (and was used anyway in tranporting the Zentraedi to Fantoma).

Now for the capital ships....

Thankfully, there are three readily available and thoroughly Robotech designs. The SDF-3, SDF-8 and Colonel Wolfe’s Ship from the comics are all available. It even stays true to the idea that the SDF-3 has been wrapped up in the exoskeleton of a Zentraedi Battlecruiser (given that the SDF-3 should probably look more like the TriStar class of ships underneath). All three of these designs are easily ID’d as Zentraedi. Cook up some stats (or find some that someone has made) and they’re ready to go.
http://www.artemisgames.com/robotech/images/pioneer.jpg
http://www.artemisgames.com/robotech/images/SDF-8.gif
http://www.macrossworld.com/iB_html/uploads/post-17-46170-Zentraedi_Frigate.jpg

You could add Space Station Liberty (the Robotech Repair Factory) as a Zentraedi starbase (thats essentially what it is).

That about does it for the enemies. Now lets take a close look at the Pioneer Mission.

I figure that the ‘REF’ Destroids we’ve known for years were in fact created for use by the Army of the Southern Cross in the early years of The Malcontent Uprisings and should be nearing the end of the combat lifespan by the start of the 2nd Robotech War. They were stopgaps anyway. The Battloids of the Southern Cross and later REF Destroids (the ones we didn’t get to see in Genesis Climber Mospeada were infinite better than the old UEF lumbering artillery pieces.

The Cyclone (VR-038 and VR-041, no VR-052 yet) should be available starting in the early 2020s (probably as an outgrowth of the older Fenris Powered Armour Program). Probably only for Special Forces at this point. The Fenris Powered Armour (misidentified as the Cosmic Unit Battloid) should be available for an Air Cav Unit similar to the CS’s SAMAS Powered Armour in Rifts.

To supplement the infantry (which should make up a significant portion of the Planetary Assault Forces) there would be the MBR-Salamander Battloid and maybe even the ADR-Cyclops Battloid (misidentified as the GMU Battloid). For construction purposes the CER-Dryad and CER-Satyr Battloid (misidentified as the EBSIS Recon Destroyer) would round out the Battloids.

For ground cavalry the Spartas and Myrmidon Hovertanks (seen first in the Rolling Thunder comics and then again in Love & War) give the Pioneer Mission a significant punch on the ground. Of course, the Spartas model available at this time is not the Officer’s Prototype seen in the Tv series (the one with the 220mm particle cannon) but instead the older model with the 105mm smoothbore. The Myrmidon can be used for ShoRAD (Short Range Air Defense) in supplement to the ADR-Catapult/Raider X II.
http://www.rtsurfer.com/Hovertank/REF%20Hovertank%20'Rolling%20Thunder'%20Color%20Plate%20(01).jpg
http://www.magicbicycle.net/_rts/new_mecha/newVHT_T-Gmodes.GIF
http://www.magicbicycle.net/_rts/_images/VHDX-2.JPG

Add in the Montgomery-class IFV, Alexander-class Missile Battery Vehicle (both types), Eisenhower-class Command Vehicle (already in The Sentinels as the ARRAV and the other ground construction vehicles (they were all from SC anyway). The Flashclapper hovercycle is there anyways...no need to delete it. The Hovertruck from SC might not be bad either.

The main weapon of the infantry is the Wolverine Assault Rifle (seen in SC and in The Sentinels comics...but misidentified in the RPG). http://www.artemisgames.com/robotech/images/SC_AR-25_ma684.gif The main sidearm is, of course, the .40 calibre M-35 Badger Pistol (it appears to fire caseless rounds..as I do not see a slide or cartridge ejection port). For energy weapons, the Owens PR-10 Multi-Weapon System (aka The Mob Gun because it looks like an old Thompson SMG) is the main one (its misidentified in the RPG as the Wolfe 9mm Pistol and the M-35 Wolverine....neither is true...its an energy weapon and its one and the same.). http://img67.exs.cx/img67/7818/OwensPR-10MobGunSketch02.jpg. The Gallant will soon replace it, but not until closer to the 2nd Robotech War most likely (we know the Pioneer Mission units come back to Earth with them based on the old coots from Ghost Town).

The main body armour used until the adoption of CVR-3 is that worn by Colonel Wolfe in the flashback from Eulogy. I’ve seen in classified as CVR-2...but that makes little sense as CVR in Robotech stands for Cyclone Veritech Ride Armor. It most certainly did not attach to a Cyclone so its just regular body armour. For attachments you can add the older Cities Defense Fighter Corps jet pack.
http://www.artemisgames.com/robotech/images/cvr-2.jpg
http://www.artemisgames.com/robotech/Research/SCross/Images/CDFC-FlightPack_MAHFp6.gif

For aerial battles, there are 4 Veritechs and 3 fighters. The primary Veritech is the Robotech production version of the VF-4 (looks EXACTLY like the VF-X-4 seen at the end of The Macross Saga and should not be confused with the VF-4 from Flashback 2012. For Strike-type missions there is the VF/B-5 Condor. The VF/A-6 Alpha is basically a jack-of-all-trades and/or air superiority fighter that can be assigned just about anywhere but is best used in Ground Assault. The VF-8 Logan should be used as a Light Dog Fighter and (believe it or not) Zentraedi Ship Infiltration mecha (kudos to AlphaVT over at the RDF HQ for translating the Logan entry and discovering its primary purpose in the original Southern Cross: ship infiltration!). The Beta isnt in production until just before the 21st Mars Division arrives so it’s a moot point anyway.

The SF-4 Wraith (seen in Outsiders) is the primary Fleet Fighter and the main answer to the Zentraedi Gnerl Fighter Pod. The SF/A-5 Bat (Conbat) from The Secret Route flies in tandem on Strike-missions with the VF/B-5 Condor. Finally the SF-6 Rapier seen in the flashback in Eulogy rounds out the mix as a jack-of-all trades and/or air superiority fighter most likely. http://www.artemisgames.com/robotech/images/volcano1.jpg

For shuttles, there is the Gossamer-class Transport that everyone is familiar with as well as the Pegasus-class Assault Shuttles. The Horizon-class Drop Ship is the mainstay troop transport. The larger Cheyenne-class Multi-purpose transport (seen as part of Transport Squadron 85 in Mind Games is the main medium transport of the Pioneer Mission.
http://www.artemisgames.com/robotech/Research/SCross/Images/gossamer_line.jpg
http://www.artemisgames.com/robotech/Research/SCross/Images/as2.jpg
http://www.artemisgames.com/robotech/Research/SCross/Images/Predators_landed54.jpg

Now we come to everyone’s favourites....the capital ships. There is the ‘Trojan Horse’ version of the SDF-3. Hopefully we’ll get to see what the ship ACTUALLY looks like one day. Unlikely...but ya never know. Could probably have Breetai’s Flagship there as well as a second command ship. Then we have the 3 SDF-4/Izumo-class ships (SDF-4, SDF-5 and SDF-6). Now is where there is contention...and there shoudnt be. The next smallest class of vessels are the Tokugawa-class Super Carriers that Macek, in his wacked out state, claimed was a single prototype sent back with Major Carpenter. That’s a load of hogwash as we see 3 others serving during the 2nd Robotech War (one of them clearly a Southern Cross vessel and not Pioneer Mission). We could probably add the Ikazuchi in as well to the mix. Its clearly designed for landing, despite what the RPG states, as the front end looks like it opens to disgorge troops. Then there is the ‘proto-Ikazuchi’ from the opening of The Invid Invasion. It can either be a full cruiser (as some suggest) or an armed replenishment ship (as some others have suggested).
http://www.artemisgames.com/robotech/new.images/Naval/izum-10.gif
http://www.artemisgames.com/robotech/new.images/Naval/IZUM-10b.gif (Kudos to Matt Willis for this drawing).
The next smallest are the ships we see in the mainline of the Southern Cross. We know these ships are with the Pioneer Mission based not only Transport Squadron 85 but also the sequence from Khyron’s Revenge where we see the remains of a Banshee/Nelson-class Destroyer some 20 light yrs from Earth. In order from largest to smallest they are the TriStar-class Cruiser Leader, Battle/Ardennes-class Battlecuier and Banshee/Nelson-class Destroyer.
http://www.artemisgames.com/robotech/Research/SCross/Images/tristarside.jpg
http://www.artemisgames.com/robotech/Research/SCross/Images/scfleet1.jpg
http://www.artemisgames.com/robotech/Research/SCross/Images/banshee_oblique.jpg
The only ship of the line left is the Garfish-class Light Cruiser..and we know they had them before the end of the 2nd Robotech War thanks to the old coots in Ghost Town.

That’s about all I can think of at the moment. Please...no rotten tomatoes, ok!

[Svartalf]

Rabid... are you speaking of any continuity having ever existed prior to Macek doing his thing? If you do, please stop doing crack before posting.

Macek verion of events is wacked out because he actually try to hammer out an artificial sense of continuity out of 3 anime which originally had precisely NO links together, beside being by Tatsunoko. Fact is he would have needed to do a lot of major rewriting to create anything like real continuity, and since he just did a minimum of fiddling with dialogues and voice over narration... well, the 3 series each keep a number of their original traits, and continuity can't help but be regularly gang raped.

I do guess that ASC is better in the original version, freed of the RT makeup.

As for the Sentinels, I know just about nothing about that beside the gamebook. And I feel fine like that. I have made my mind to play Robotech RPG "the Siembieda way" and keep the stuff as published, mistakes and all. Trying to make everything right is just an exceedingly great and pointless effort, it takes the fun out of the game.

[Nekira Sudacne]

I say no, I love the sentials as they are written.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

1. I think your going in with a lot of preconcived notions relating to your fervant defense of events around the ASC. You make some good points - but you also take some of it a stretch to far, and you state some already painfully aware things.

Well...tell me what is wrong. Besides....isnt saying Im going in with preconcieved notions like the pot calling the kettle black?

2. Most people, because of your past incidents? Taint their view with your notorious bias against anything not ASC.

That, I will admit, is true.

P.S. - the images of the SDF-3 are directly from the artists notes and cells, so you -are- looking at the real SDF-3.

Actually...no it isnt. Thats the shell of a Zentraedi cruiser. The actual SDF-3 probably looks something like either the Tokugawa-class Super Carrier or TriStar-class Cruiser Leader.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

Rabid... are you speaking of any continuity having ever existed prior to Macek doing his thing? If you do, please stop doing crack before posting.

You obviously misread what I wrote. Im quite lucid and I assure you I'm not on drugs.

Macek verion of events is wacked out because he actually try to hammer out an artificial sense of continuity out of 3 anime which originally had precisely NO links together, beside being by Tatsunoko.

You totally missed what I was talking about. This has everything to do with keeping within the continuity established in Robotech....something that The Sentinels didn't even come close to doing. This entire line of reasoning is irrelevant to the discussion, BTW.

Trying to make everything right is just an exceedingly great and pointless effort, it takes the fun out of the game.

Given the number of mistakes that Harmony Gold made over the years with regards to handling the continuity....its too much to bear now. Palladium made a number of mistakes as well...ones that are easily recitified.

[Svartalf]

Well... It did not seem irrelevant to me... it *did* look like you were ranting like a man mad or on drugs ... and starting from a more than questionable point : viz : that there is anything like a real continuity in robotech... personally I regard the "integration" modifications Macek made to the 3 series a little more than a bad jury rig job, and that the series were better in their original, independent forms

I'm certainly not the buff you are, and I guess that if I were, I might be bothered more than I am by the inconsistencies. but my point is that the stuff, as it exists, is enough of a gasworks already, without trying to add stuff and fix it.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

there is anything like a real continuity in robotech... personally I regard the "integration" modifications Macek made to the 3 series a little more than a bad jury rig job, and that the series were better in their original, independent forms.

::sighs::

You still don't get it. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with the integration of the different stories into Robotech. It has everything to do with the sloppy continuity mess that The Sentinels created by violating the continuity established within Robotech. Quite simply, it is an attempt by me to offer an alternative to the error ridden version of The Sentinels that most people know today.

[Nekira Sudacne]

there is anything like a real continuity in robotech... personally I regard the "integration" modifications Macek made to the 3 series a little more than a bad jury rig job, and that the series were better in their original, independent forms.

::sighs::

You still don't get it. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with the integration of the different stories into Robotech. It has everything to do with the sloppy continuity mess that The Sentinels created by violating the continuity established within Robotech. Quite simply, it is an attempt by me to offer an alternative to the error ridden version of The Sentinels that most people know today.

it's not errors if they wanted to change it outright.

[Lord Malachdrim]

Sentinels was made after the other 3 shows had already been made into one long series. And if you look at what is said in those three adn then what is said/done in the sentinels there are major errors that shouldn't have been there since he was making the sentinels from the ground up and could have stuck with what was already in the story line. At least that's what I think Rabid is trying to say.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

Don't totally discount the bioriods for action latter on. IIRC, there is no indication that the REF/Pioneer Mission was still in regular communications with Earth.

Actually...the link between Earth and the Pioneer Mission is quite apparent from the dialogue in the Robotech Tv series. Space Station Liberty is the link (probably the main hub). The idea that the Earth cannot communicate with ships light years away is somewhat counterintuitive. Not only do the Zentraedi have FTL Real-Time Comm but the REF in The New Generation do as well (as evinced from dialogue in The Invid Invasion and Ghost Town). So no, the Pioneer Mission never encountered the Robotech Masters prior to the outbreak of the 2nd Robotech War (and maybe not even until they returned in force at the end of the 2nd Robotech War). Otherwise, Major Carpenter's tech's aboard the UES Hannibal wouldnt have called the Masters' ships unknown in origin.

Aren't these things suppose to be unique to the Uprising period? So encountering them elsewhere might confuse players who have campaighned in the Uprising period.

Actually...no. The Stinger design Im talking about is just one of the myriad of designs from the old non-canon comics from Eternity Comics. The design is currently lying fallow and would be a good enemy mecha.

I think you might be getting carried away with the whole "new mecha for the bad guys". Some "upgrades" to the Zentraedi power armors would probally work for the most part.

Thats too much like the Macross universe for my tastes. I know it sounds weird...but I see the 'new' enemy as either not being part of Dolza's Zentraedi command or being a separate military force all together. Not relying on the old designs also prevents the game from getting stale. There is also the fact that the enemy should not be the totally disposable force from The Macross Saga.

If your talking about the destroids presented in the Sentinels book, I will have to disagree with you. The RDF Destroids would work better as the stop gap, seeing as how some are more powerful than their REF counter parts (Excalibur and Gladiator). The reduction in size and replacing of some weaponry (Gladiator missiles for lasers), fits with the needs of a long distance ship based operation.

The older Macross series Destroids are hardly the kind of mecha that you would want to use in the jungles of South America. Most of their ranged weapons are useless in the dense canopy. The lack of a true humanoid form also hinders all but the Spartan/Gladiator. The old Macross Destroids would be near decommision time at the start of The Malcontent Uprisings.

The Fenris is would work better as an off shoot of an earlier design that lead to the Cyclone. The Micronian Power Armor from Strike Force would fill that role

Given that the Fenris is about 10 feet tall and doesnt require the special interface of body armour....Im gonna stick by my reasoning that the Cyclone is in fact an outgrowth of this program and not the other way around.

Actually, the inclusion of any SC battloids or other equipment would cause timeline issues, seeing as how most of it should have been developed after the REF left. I still have issues with the inclusion of the hovertank in the REF. (I see it mainly as a nod to the SC portion of Robotech.

No, the Southern Cross mecha would be the weapons platforms that ultimately gave humanity victory in The Malcontent Uprisings. They would not have been developed after the REF left. This is why I contend that the Destroids from The Sentinels were a stopgap (or intermin if you like) from the Macross designs to the Battloids and Mospeada Destroids.

still don't think there would be use of SC designs amongst the REF as much as you are doing.

Except that is the exact OPPOSITE of what is shown in Robotech. Transport Squadron 85 and the TriStar Crusier Leader identified as T-382, Battle Heavy Cruisers identified as T-377, T-378, T-379 and the Banshee-class Destroyer identifed as T-380 are all Pioneer Mission reinforcements. Given that Colonel Wolfe came back with the first REF wave during the 2nd Robotech War (as per Scott's comments in Eulogy)....you are mistaken.

I disagree with you on the appearance of the SDF-3. The Red monster is it's real appearance, it was to be hidden in the shell of a flagship like Breeti's. It is suppose to more closely resemble the pre-crash SDF-1.

No it doesnt. Rewatch the opening of Boobytrap and you'll see the SDF-1 is quite clearly an angular design. It doesnt matter one whit what Macek wrote for the Robotech Graphic Novel as they have 60ft tall Bioroids as well as Tirolian Perimeter Drones (seen in Half Moon) as being used by the UEG.

A word of caution, trying to figure out the continuity mess that is Robotech can lead to madness.

There is no continuity mess as long as you dont impose outside influences that were written after the show. Even the debacle with the SDF-2 has a perfectly logical explanation that in no way has it appear anywhere on screen...or on Earth for that matter.

[Colonel Wolfe]

I'd recommend you present as an alternate universe type thing, you'll get decidedly less abuse for it.

The Thread Title is.....

An alternate version of The Sentinels.......


-Wolfe

[Colonel Wolfe]

But the Idea that the SDF-3 is how the pre-crash SDF-1 looked is not proven by the anime. the Precrash SDF-1 was very Angular. Watch the Anime again, it is Clrealy shown in Booby trap as having Edges and Angles, no noticible Curving of the hull.

-Wolfe

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

It's been years since I've seen the series, but I was under the impression that comunications wasn't constant. IIRC the whole push past the RM episode was to get a single sent to the REF an SOS.

Communications became jammed in the opening moments of the 2nd Robotech War. However, they are reestablished and the request for reinforcement is recieved because TS 85 is responding to the distress call from the attack on Space Station Liberty.

Wasn't there an episode where Dana and co. got newer versions of the hovertank? Earlier versions/variants would have been used in the Uprisings and most of the SC designs would be from afterwards, in my opinion.

Well...in The Hunters, the 15th ATAC has their hovertanks outfitted for space ops. However, in Southern Cross Dana gets the new Officer's Prototype with the 220mm particle cannon. The older models, as I stated, use the 105mm smoothbore.

Reread what I said, note the use of the words "suppose to" that doesn't mean it does. As for Macek, he was the force behind Robotech, he wrote the amalgamation of the shows, he was behind Sentinels. As for the info on the SDF-3 I'm sure that is from the Sentinels book itself or the REF Field Guide.

This is yet again an outside imposition upon Robotech by Macek in making The Sentinels. The SDF-3 as shown, wrapped in the exoskeleton of a Zentraedi Battlecruiser, in no way even bears a passing resemblance to the pre-crash SDF-1.

I remember there being some from the show itself.

The only egregious example is in The Hunters where Emerson states that the TriStar and its escort force are descending to Moon Base Luna. He later asks for an exact position check and is told that they are near Lagrange Point 6 (an impossibility Ive been told as there can only be 5 Lagrange Points) some 20,000km from Mars...eventhough the celestial body in front of them clearly is the Moon. Either the bridge tech is in error (which it can be ruled...as they are in the midst of battle) or we have a serious continuity flub.

[Svartalf]

Rabid... are you speaking of any continuity having ever existed prior to Macek doing his thing? If you do, please stop doing crack before posting.

hmmm, I've scene both versions of the Sentinels(Toy Fare* version and the Movie version), Read the Horrible Scripts for the series. Any attempts to Fix it are a welcome sight. But if you still feel that Rabid is on Drugs, the put down the RPG books you guys hold as bibles for the sentinels and look for a mpeg of the Episodes, you'll see Edwards is portrayed as a Mumra-esk Villain, Laughing at his own Manicial plans in front of subordinates. (Which is Mutiny)


Heres a Link to the Sentinels Scripts for the first 4 episodes.
http://www.rtsurfer.com/Sent_scripts/

I've read the book for episodes 5-8 cant find a link thou.

Read and Enjoy!

Wolfe
.

Right... it looks like I misunderstood completely and spoke through my backside... comes from Rabid speaking of continuity violations from the Sentinels anime/comic stuff and later lambasting an integration flub in SC in passing ...

That and the fact that, from my "I don't know a thing about Sentinels beyond what's in the RPG book" PoV, most of his complains and proposals just did not make sense.

I grant, My vision of the RT universe as to be used in RPG largely predates my being exposed to the real anime stuff, which is why I was always careful never to play with people who actually knew the series, so as not to be lambasted for doing out-of-canon stuff... so my vision of series continuity is based solely on the RPG material.

From that point, I just did not see any objectionable continuity problem in Sentinels.

Now, if Sentinels, the RPG stuff is full of mistakes as compared to the anime material (there are some in the other 3 books, If I believe what I'm told, so some more are quite believeble) and the published manga material is incoherent with the basic canon RT stuff (some parts being crappy don't count, they are still "canon" so long as there are no contradictions)... well, I understand that manga/anime buffs might want to correct all that... but from my PoV, it's just adding even more complicated stuff to a thing that is already too complicated, and it feels like throwing good money after the bad. Good for rendering the series... but not necessarily very fun.

[Svartalf]

Also, please forgive some stupid questions from a non buff.

What's that stuff with GMU? I don't remember it being mentioned in the basic 3 anime, or the basic RPG material. Also, it being called at one point an ideal mobile base and a battloid at another just confuses me.

and what are the MBR Salamander and ADR Cyclops battloids? if they were published in the RPG material, where and under what name?

Also... what are the malcontent uprising and the pioneer expedition? I guess I actually might have heard of them... just not under those names, so I'd like to make sure.

How about the Fenris thing? Is it actually a 10 ft tall suit of PA that got mislabeled as a battloid and given false stats in the S C RPG book? If so, when did it appear and what is its place in the grand scheme of things?

[Colonel Wolfe]

here are 2 pics of the pre-rebuild SDF-1, one in orbit, the other on the ground. both have angular hulls and dont look much like the SDF-3 as presented in the RPG.




http://www.robotechresearch.com/picture_archive/Macross/Ships/sdf-1/large/sdf-1_0_large.jpg
http://tatooine.fortunecity.com/gargoyle/225/sdf1rebuilding.gif

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

As for the "Pioneer Mission" - thats a bit of a misnomer. That would be the Robotech Expeditionary Force's "Operation To The Stars".

Actually...the name is NOT a misnomer.

The Pioneer Mission had 3 objectives...though only 2 are readily referred to most of the time.

1.) Establish colonies outside of Earth's solar system so as to preserve the human race. (this is based on Gloval's speech to Lisa from eps. #36)

2.) Find the homeworld of the Robotech Masters and bring the war to them. (The first part is stated explicity at least twice in the later parts of Robotech, while the latter part is based on Gloval's words to Lisa in eps. #36. The Zentraedi do NOT know the location of the Masters' homeworld as Gloval says they have to FIND IT!)

3.) Solve the mystery surrounding Protoculture. (again, stated explicity in the series).

So no....Pioneer is not a misnomer. I'll try and dig up the various quotes tonight and post them for ya.

[Svartalf]

Your not even remotly in the ballpark of understanding what I ment... The mission name was not the same as the ships name. That's very clearly stated in about a hundred diffrent cooberating places, oth pre and post canon. I dont know who eventually started calling it the "Pioneer Mission", but I am betting dollars to donuts it was Palladium, or those stupid novels.

Then it was the novels, because I never read of that in the RPG products, I had to ask the question because, while I have the RPG stuff and RT/Macross DVDs, I had never stumbled on the name.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

Your not even remotly in the ballpark of understanding what I ment... The mission name was not the same as the ships name. That's very clearly stated in about a hundred diffrent cooberating places, oth pre and post canon. I dont know who eventually started calling it the "Pioneer Mission", but I am betting dollars to donuts it was Palladium, or those stupid novels.

That is absolutely...and totally WRONG! It was always called the Pioneer Mission in the Tv series.

BTW...the Pioneer Mission and the REF appear to be two different entities in many respects. The former post-dates the Macross era until the end of the 2nd Robotech War while the latter is a post-Invid Invasion force made up of what was left of the Pioneer Mission that wasn't destroyed over Earth fighting the Robotech Masters or at the start of the Invid Invasion.

Eps. #47 Outsiders

Comm voice (from UES Hannibal Commtroller): This is Recon One calling Earth Defense Command. Come in DefCom. Enemy fleet spotted and engaged. Repeat we have engaged the enemy. We are now approaching coordinates Lambda Delta 15. We are requesting immediate backup support.

Unnamed tech: Its a ship from the Pioneer Mission!

Comm voice: Repeat, requesting immediate reinforcements. This is Recon One.

Unnamed tech near Emerson: Shall we scramble our available fighters sir?

Emerson (nodding): Hmmm. Ive been hoping they'd come.

****************

PA Voice: All pilots to battle stations. All pilots to battle stations. All ground crews to Staging Areas 6 through 16. Prepare fighters for rendezvous with Attack Wing from Pioneer Mission. All pilots and ground crews to Staging Areas. Prepare for immediate rendezvous with SDF-3 Attack Wing.

Dana: Louie! Hey, what's all the ruckuss about?

Louie: It seems the Cavalry has arrived in the nick of time.

Dana: Its incredible.

****************

General Leonard: You mean you came here alone! Theres no more reinforcements coming from the SDF-3? Sorry, Major but we were hoping for more substantial assistance than that. You must be kidding.

Major Carpenter: I'm sorry, sir but what it boils down to is that you cannot expect any further help from the Pioneer Expedition at this time.

Leonard: Huh?

Carpenter: I'm afraid its true. I'm simply relaying orders from General Reinhardt, Commander of the mission when I say that they can offer you nothing more.

Leonard (groaning): Ughhhh......

Carpenter: You see, my attack wing was merely a last ditch effort to join forces with your available fighters and knock the invaders from their orbit.

Leonard: We all know how successful that little strategem was!

Carpenter: No one is more aware of our failure than I, Commander. However, at this time General Reinhardt can only offer you his prayers and his firm conviction that the fate of the people of Earth lies in good hands with you and the valiant fighting forces under your command sir.

Leonard: The General's offer is a disaster.

Emerson: I wonder if there will be anyone left on Earth to appreciate his prayers by the time he returns from space.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

Eps. #38 False Start

Narrator: Space Station Liberty, Earth's only link to the Robotech Defenders who have gone out into cosmos searching for answers to the puzzling riddle of Protoculture.

I can't find my DVD with The Invid Invasion on it to get the other quote. If someone else has the DVD and could please provide the quote....

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

Since the Flagship lead was the SDF-3 Pioneer, it can easily be stated its the "Pioneer Mission" - but the name of the mission was clearly not the "Pioneer Mission".

Have you even WATCHED any of the Southern Cross portion of Robotech? I quoted VERBATIM from the Tv series. The SDF-3 being called the Pioneer is a post-Sentinels creation (Im not even sure by whom) while the term Pioneer Mission is most definitely a Robotech term.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

Hey Rabid Southern Cross Fan are you going to keep working on it (Your write up)

Probably. I'll most likely do it as a separate site to the one Colonel Wolfe and I are working on at the moment. I would need to sit down and organize stuff. I have tons of pics sitting on my HD that can be used as well as stuff from the old comics that can be salvaged. Just need the free time to sit and do it. I also need to find a good host since Im not the most conversant person when it comes to web-page design.