Protoculture and the Rifts

[Zenvis]

I know that there will be those that dont like cross over. But I was wondering if there ever were a dump of the flowers seeds and Protoculture of life was on Rifts Earth then would the invid survive an assault against the planet or would the write it off and leave?

[Mike Taylor]

Well, the problem is in finding a place where the Flower of Life could grow on Rifts Earth. According to the old version of the Rifts Conversion Book, ley line energy actually hampers the growth of the plants. Then you have to factor in the soil conditions of those areas where ley lines are scarce.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

Actually...

you DONT need the seeds for growing new FoL on Earth (or anywhere else for that matter). The Tv series said that Zor was seeding a world with Protoculture Spores (basically spores of the FoL). That means that they probably attached themselves to the native flora and began mutating it to conform with the FoL (its said to be a parasitic lifeform after all). This explains why we see new FoL popping up near the ruins of the SDF-1 after the final battle of the 2nd Robotech War.

Seeds are necessary for yielding the actual Protoculture substance itself. Tirolians, Humans and Zentraedi need the Protoculture from the seeds.

[Mike Taylor]

it says that the flower of life can not grow with in 100 miles of a ley line...so trying to find a place where there is no leylines with in 100 miles would be tough...but maybe a remote Island in the south pacific??? *wink*

the Invid?

well they woudl have to figure out HOW to get to rifts earth...which I am sure with time they coudl infact do...but the invid use there Sensor nebula whic detects protoculture in deep space ( it seems it is its self a liveing entity) but hey if a shifter opens up a rift near the the flower of life ( over 100 miles away of course) then if the nebula was in the solar system of the would which the rift leads too..then for sure it woudl detect it

or not...

Thank you, Phoboskitty. I no longer own the Conversion Book (Unrevised) and could not recall the exact distances involved.

[glitterboy2098]

you can do one of 3 things to bring the invid to rifts earth:


1) the invid can sense protoculture across dimensional boundries, and the regis left robtech earth for rifts earth (personally i don't like this option.)

2) the invid exist in the rifts universe as well, and both they, the zents, and the masters detect protoculture on rifts earth and head out to claim it. (possible, but would be difficult to pull off.)

3) a hive or two of invid get rifted to rifts and carve out a minor domain. (my favorite.)

[Mike Taylor]

Of course, one must consider what would happen if a sufficent supply of the Flowers and protoculture powered technology got into the hands of Splynncryth and the Kittani.

[Zenvis]

So what would be the M.D.C. of the Regis and Regent because of the magic ley lines that alter the M.D.C.'s a it is. Would the whole Invid be transformed by the ley lines?

[Cranus]

The more I think on the matter, the more I realize a problem with ley lines inhibiting the flower of life. Technically, or mystically if you prefer, ley lines exist today. Which infers that ley lines exist in the setting of Robotech. Therefore, it makes sense that the flower of life could grow in the presence of a ley line.

Besides, were any reasons given in the unrevised conversion book as to why ley lines inhibit the growth of the FOL.

[glitterboy2098]

protoculture energy exhibits similarities to PPE, so similar that its likely the same thing.

MDC Dino's, natural mutants, and the unified Energy Posit.


if you go down that route, its possible that the flower of life absorbs latent PPE from its enviroment, and the ley lines have so much it fry's it. (ever overcharge a battery? it tends to melt and catch fire.)

[Drakenred®™©]

protoculture energy exhibits similarities to PPE, so similar that its likely the same thing.

MDC Dino's, natural mutants, and the unified Energy Posit.


if you go down that route, its possible that the flower of life absorbs latent PPE from its enviroment, and the ley lines have so much it fry's it. (ever overcharge a battery? it tends to melt and catch fire.)

Well, a single Protoculture cell Provides the FAL-2 with 800 shots of 2D4 MDC out to 1200 ft, assuming that each shot needs the energy of (for example) the spell Electric Arc (a spell that only does 2D6 MDC out to 30 ft per level of XP) your looking at 6400 PPE per Protoculture cell

(If you match it closer to (say) the spell powerbolt you end up with roughly 6300 PPE per Pcell asuming that roughly 3-4 shots is = 1 Powerbolt spell )

[The Artist Formerly]

There is also the little bit about the Robotech Masters being called Techno-Wizards in the Robotech RPG series. While that was well before the Rifts RPG, and I don't know if Techno-Wizards were in BTS, it does make one wonder about just how protoculture works.

Magic.

[Drakenred®™©]

There is also the little bit about the Robotech Masters being called Techno-Wizards in the Robotech RPG series. While that was well before the Rifts RPG, and I don't know if Techno-Wizards were in BTS, it does make one wonder about just how protoculture works.

Magic.

nope something more powerfull than magic

Behold the power of BDA

Badly Dubbed Anima

Yes, I know that its not realy badly dubbed anima this time around, its just that certain Default Japanise Cultural Assumptions do not translate over very well

[The Artist Formerly]

Magic.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Portoculture is the IFoL so where ever there is protoculture there is the IFoL. The prosses of using protoculture turns it into IFoL seeds/spores.

As to the original question...yes and no....the flowers' presence would not draw the entier Invid hord but the ones who would be sence would have a troubled time setting up their 1st and 2nd hives...but if they stuck to the flowering lands they would not run into much major reisitence from the ppl living there.

[Devjannz]

The more I think on the matter, the more I realize a problem with ley lines inhibiting the flower of life. Technically, or mystically if you prefer, ley lines exist today. Which infers that ley lines exist in the setting of Robotech. Therefore, it makes sense that the flower of life could grow in the presence of a ley line.

Besides, were any reasons given in the unrevised conversion book as to why ley lines inhibit the growth of the FOL.

My theory on this was that the FoL feeds on the residual PPE around it and that the reason that they cannot grow close to the Ley Lines of Rifts Earth is that there is too much PPE and it is like overwatering to them.

[Lt. Holmes]

The Invid may somehow get to Rifts Earth, but they'd have a hell of a time trying to subjigate the inhabitants.

They had such an easy time in the Robotech universe because the ASC forces were totally exhausted from the fight with the Masters and there was little resistance from anywhere else on the planet.

Now compare that to Rifts Earth, where a goodly number of the inhabitants are fighting at any one time and are really, really armed to the teeth. Sure, the Invid might have some good first-strike sucesses, but sooner or later the forces native to Rifts Earth would counter attack and kick those slimy Invid asses clear across to Phase World.


However, I personally believe that the Invid would have no issues with the people on Rifts Earth since none of them activily use the Flower or Protoculture. If they found the Flowers growing in parts of the planet, they would clear out a section of land surrounding those crops of any people, set up a control zone to prevent any incursions, and quite happily go about their lives, munching away on the plant.

But I must admit to having visions of watching the Invid and the Xiticix going at it Two hive-like races with zillions of troops to throw away in battles, both of whom fight with unthinking, unwavering ferocity... that would be one heck of a fight to watch (from several thousand miles away, of course).

[Svartalf]

Earth was an extremely suitable place for the FOL in Robotech. It started to grow practicaly everywhere. RIFTS Earth would likely still be a very suitable place once the flower mutated to grow in the enviroment. Leylines pose a problem... but what if there was a mutanted strain of the FOL that started to feed off the energy of a leyline?

Another option would be placing the FOL in part of the 3 galaxies.

which is exactly what I did : I am yet to bring robetech characters & stuff to Rifts earth in any major quantity yet ... though I wouldn't be surprised if Zor had been there in the past and seeded the place with the FoL... only particular I've set on that is that such as has mutated to grow near ley lines (within 100 miles as said in CB1) is useless for use in producing protoculture power systems... instead, it has hugely developed it's hallucinogenic aspects... oh my, Splynncryth is making a commercial killing by harvesting and selling Atlantis Weed (also harvested in britain) ... it's the kind of drug they sell in those ill famed dens in Dragcona, you know, the kind that can give a major buzz even to dragons and big demons... wanna try it little yummy? (a draconic pet name for humans).

As for using the full fledged unadulterated robotech material, I've set a whole sector of the corkscrew (conveniently within TGE territory) where Kreeghor rule is flouted ... the REF, though mostly bent on it's anti invid crusade, also acts as a semi-witting ally for the FWC chapters there... the invid themselves follow the FoL wherever it is... and if the worlds they stumble on just happen to be under Kreehor rule, you can bet that rule won't stay effective for long... Robotech master and Zentraedi fleets do their stuff... I'd say that for a lotsa parsecs wide area of space that is nominally part of the TGE, the whole place looks pretty close to utter anarchy... oh, yeah, some bright genius has recently introduced new battle mecha on the markets in center they are variation of robotech mecha where the reflex pile is supplemented by a micro antimatter plant, so that the bot has both the symbiotic link to its pilot afforded by robotechnology AND a decent shelf life without having to renew the protoculture reserve too often... after all, given the only known areas where the FoL is found, and the fact that you have to go through hostile TGE territory, a very dangerous area of space, AND some fairly rabid invids (yeah, they belong to the Regent, most of'em) nobody is any too keen on making regular trips to renew the galactic protoculture supplies...

[Svartalf]

The more I think on the matter, the more I realize a problem with ley lines inhibiting the flower of life. Technically, or mystically if you prefer, ley lines exist today. Which infers that ley lines exist in the setting of Robotech. Therefore, it makes sense that the flower of life could grow in the presence of a ley line.

Besides, were any reasons given in the unrevised conversion book as to why ley lines inhibit the growth of the FOL.

point one ... if you allow for a fair parallel between rifts earth and robotech earth, you have to realize that on the latter, magic is completely forgotten and the lines at an all time low (wonder why they did not surge in 2011 when the Zentraedi attack wiped out 70% of the population in just a few hours, if not in mere minutes), while on the former, they are as high as they are ever likely to get without actually turning the planet into an asteroid belt. so, on Ro earth, the only places actually hostile to the growth of the FoL would be the actual ley line sites, if even there they are strong enough to hamper that hardy vegetable.

Point 2, no, no reason or logic, just a statement that earth is hospitable to the Flower, but only at least 100 miles away from a line

[Zer0 Kay]

One word for a possible lay line mutation of the FOL. Cheza. Check out the anime "Wolf's Rain".

Of course another possibility would be the capability for Robotech Mecha to use techno wizardry modifications. Or the FOL may be able to use the TW mods on it's own, auto TW defenses.

The FOL are supposed to be fragmented portions of a colective entity, go with that. Per Sentinels (the novels) the FOL is a godlike entity. Hayden and the Regis become god like entities.

[Zer0 Kay]

the REF (After all - the REF is also a Humanity and Earth for Humans based group - and the candidates your likely to see there, are the NGR, The Russians, and possibly Japan)

So that is why they befriended the Zentradi, Carbonarite , Spherians, Garudaians, Perytonian, Praxian and the Haydonites as well as some Invid and Robotech Masters? Gee I thought they were fighting for survival on Earth not to make it for humans by humans.

After conquering even MORE of the good Ole'US of A thanks to the REF - Splynny will be less inclined to leave himself so open to attack from forces obviously superior to his previous foes. Eventually - the survivors of NEMA will come crawling out of the Ocean depths to join the REF, as they become another rallying cry for humanity

I'd think it a rallying cry for all that is good and descent for freedom and diversity.

And as the REF continues to dominate, old cultural lines will degrade, allowing even the Psionics and magic users to find a place once again with humanity -

I figure the cultural lines would vanish just as it did with the RDF when everyone realized there was a greater threat (except the terrorist cells).

and of course various DBees wont be as ridiculed as they once where. After all - they make good sweat shop laborers, look at all the good work the Zentraedi did?

You'd be a great CS grunt. The DBees ,as long as they weren't criminal, would likely be absorbed into the REF just as the Zentradi and the Sentinals were as equals.

Splynny has the Invid Regis and Regent to deal with, not to mention the limitations on his Kitanni fleet size considering the sheer numerical superiority of his other 2 foes, and everyone ELSE who will attack him if he showes weakness...

And you got the Ropers... er, the Invids and their hordes of Brady-Bunch numbered children, who, while not super powerful individually, with the revised rules, have the numeric weight of a civilization to bring down on a single island like Atlantis, if they so wish - and all they need to is pummel Splynny once, why? Cause onces hes beaten - hes definatly not coming back.

Now that I like. Let the bad guys fight it out amongst themselves.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

So that is why they befriended the Zentradi, Carbonarite , Spherians, Garudaians, Perytonian, Praxian and the Haydonites as well as some Invid and Robotech Masters? Gee I thought they were fighting for survival on Earth not to make it for humans by humans.

Actually...its quite apparent that the humans after the 1st Robotech War felt rather superior to the Zentraedi. This is borne out not only in the Tv series...but in The Sentinels movie as well. I would imagine that the REF has a very humanocentric view of things.

[Zer0 Kay]

Funny - I'd SWEAR humanities utter xenophobicness in RT caused them many problems until some time after the bombardment.

As for my "Sweat Shop Joke" - if you have seen the series, you will remember the scene where the Zentraedi are helping construct circutry and so forth in standards they felt where unfair to their skills? Its called making a joke.

Just because you befriend Alien species and DBee's and so forth - dosnt mean you dont give the survival of your own race purview over others. Earth is humanities homeworld, not the...
Zentraedi
Meltrandi
Karberran
or any other race. In the end? We still have to fight our own war and stand on our own 2 feet. I didnt say Aliens would be ostrasized or "ventilated" if they show their faces, infact their help will be quite welcome. But for the same reason you dont see inclusion of SENTINELs races in any of the Palladium RT Material (You wouldnt see it in the footage anyway) is the same reason why Humanity would put itself before other alien species for a time being.

I thought it was our standard paranoia of everything.

The only complaints I remember from Zentradi is that they were warriors not laborers. I thought it may have been a joke but wasn't sure.

I'd like to think that at least Rick and Lisa are interested in fighting for the freedom of all otherwise they wouldn't have joined the Sentinels. What do you mean by "don't see inclusion of Sentinels races in any of the Palladium RT material? As far as humanity fighting for humanity if your gonna break it down why not just say the truth each person is fighting for their own freedom they could care less about everyone else but appreciate their help and realize that in numbers is strength. So If you can break it down that far and then build it back up and say that they are fighting for humanity by humanity then you can also build it up more and say that they are all fighting for freedom by everyone.

I like how you use VENTILATED now that is funny.

[Zer0 Kay]

Fundemenally that is the goal - Freedom for all, but notice it took the discovery of the Zentraedi and Meltrandi genetic structures to be relativly identical to humanities, for Lisa and Gloval to feel like they had a winning opening to an argument with the UEDC?

Let's face it - ideals and fundementals are nice, but like plans of battle, they dont survive contact long with reality or the enemy. This isnt saying we slop off from them or forget them, but we do often enough, have to put them into prospective. Humanity is in a fight for both its life? Its Cultural Existance, and its homeworld. The Zentreadi or anyone else alien to this world? Are clearly not. Do you understand what im saying?

The Zentradi no but the other Sentinels are in the same fight as we are for their own planets. The Earth Zentradi too in a way since Earth is their new home and our culture is now their culture.

[Zer0 Kay]

Again - thats all well and good, but in the end, this isn't there home planet - it's ours, and if it comes ot making a great sacrafice to preserve it, whos going to be more likely to want to commit such an act, them or us?

This is eventually irrelivent anyway - the point was the discussion of protoculture and the Rifts - I still think that the FoL can consume PPE energy fairly easy without any change to its general structure.

Ok dumb question but have you ever watched the anime Wolf's Rain? Consider making a Chesa out of FoL.


Also from the Thinking cap post:

I tend to go with a combination of the three. All of the anime stuff no thouht control like the RPG, but it also doesn't have protoculture movement processors. Rather it is the essense of Haydon (Protoculture according to the novels) in the power core that reaches out through the rest of the system by use of something like telemechanics, at the same time it is also capable of reading the will of the pilot and performing as the pilot wishes. Essentially the reason no one else (like Minmei or Lisa) won't confuse it is because the essense becomes used to the pilot, essentially bonding with them. Any other pilot can still make it mechanically function but it will not seem like an extension of themselves. Unless the powercore is changed out or the new pilot spends as much time in the fighter as the previous one did basically overwriting the "feel" of the previous pilot. (added i.e. pilot one flies the fighter for 12 days before he is given a dishonorable discharge, pilot two would also have to pilot the VF for 12 days before the VF started acting properly.)

Basically just saying that if anything the FoL would probably thrive near laylines since it is portions of a benevelent (not necessarily good but non-aggressive) Alien Intelligence.

[Zer0 Kay]

I keep getting asked that a lot - no, i've never seen it.

Ok there is a pretty deep plot but the concept I'm interested in is Chesa who is a humanoid that was created out of Lunar Flower which is what the wolves are attracted to. I was just thinking what a creature like this would be like made out of FoL.

[Grand Paladin]

Thanks! But it was more like a genetically altered version of the FoL, containing a mutagenic property that would kill any Invid that lived in the FoL nutrient bath, that is necessary within their mecha.

But yes, it's unfortunate that this story arc didn't get played out. And honestly, I don't think that the good Doctor was a Frankenstein type with a God complex...

That whole thing was a research project (backstory) that he carried way too far.

[Killer Cyborg]

The more I think on the matter, the more I realize a problem with ley lines inhibiting the flower of life. Technically, or mystically if you prefer, ley lines exist today. Which infers that ley lines exist in the setting of Robotech. Therefore, it makes sense that the flower of life could grow in the presence of a ley line.

Take your pick:
1. Robotech Earth has no ley-lines. It's a parallel Earth, not an exact copy, and that's one of the differences. No magic exists in the robotech universes, and this may be because no ley lines exist there.
2. The ley lines on Rifts Earth are much more powerful than on Robotech Earth, thus they are powerful enough to interfere with the protoculture growth.

[Zer0 Kay]

The more I think on the matter, the more I realize a problem with ley lines inhibiting the flower of life. Technically, or mystically if you prefer, ley lines exist today. Which infers that ley lines exist in the setting of Robotech. Therefore, it makes sense that the flower of life could grow in the presence of a ley line.

Take your pick:
1. Robotech Earth has no ley-lines. It's a parallel Earth, not an exact copy, and that's one of the differences. No magic exists in the robotech universes, and this may be because no ley lines exist there.
2. The ley lines on Rifts Earth are much more powerful than on Robotech Earth, thus they are powerful enough to interfere with the protoculture growth.

What is the point of your statement? That they could or couldn't grow near leylines because of x?

One word for number one Perytonians.
For number two Humans.

[Killer Cyborg]

The more I think on the matter, the more I realize a problem with ley lines inhibiting the flower of life. Technically, or mystically if you prefer, ley lines exist today. Which infers that ley lines exist in the setting of Robotech. Therefore, it makes sense that the flower of life could grow in the presence of a ley line.

Take your pick:
1. Robotech Earth has no ley-lines. It's a parallel Earth, not an exact copy, and that's one of the differences. No magic exists in the robotech universes, and this may be because no ley lines exist there.
2. The ley lines on Rifts Earth are much more powerful than on Robotech Earth, thus they are powerful enough to interfere with the protoculture growth.

What is the point of your statement? That they could or couldn't grow near leylines because of x?

One word for number one Perytonians.
For number two Humans.

My point is that there isn't "a problem with ley lines inhibiting the growth of the flower of life". I gave two perfectly reasonable explanations for the phenomonon.

1. Perytonians, if you bother to read the text, don't actually use magic.
2. What about humans?

[Zer0 Kay]

The more I think on the matter, the more I realize a problem with ley lines inhibiting the flower of life. Technically, or mystically if you prefer, ley lines exist today. Which infers that ley lines exist in the setting of Robotech. Therefore, it makes sense that the flower of life could grow in the presence of a ley line.

Take your pick:
1. Robotech Earth has no ley-lines. It's a parallel Earth, not an exact copy, and that's one of the differences. No magic exists in the robotech universes, and this may be because no ley lines exist there.
2. The ley lines on Rifts Earth are much more powerful than on Robotech Earth, thus they are powerful enough to interfere with the protoculture growth.

What is the point of your statement? That they could or couldn't grow near leylines because of x?

One word for number one Perytonians.
For number two Humans.

My point is that there isn't "a problem with ley lines inhibiting the growth of the flower of life". I gave two perfectly reasonable explanations for the phenomenon.

1. Perytonians, if you bother to read the text, don't actually use magic.
2. What about humans?

1. OK, didn't read that before I posted. I just remembered that they used "magic".
2. Humans have grown and flourished around leylines so why can't elements of Hayden a God?

The FoL is alive and I see them as Telepathic/Telemechanic life forms. That enable the will of the pilot to translate into enhanced performance of machine. I figure if anything the Magic of Rifts Earth should enhance this. The power produced by protoculture is basically a PPE battery any way you place a seed of the FoL under extreme pressure causing it to produce energy. Basically you torture it causing it to produce double it's P.P.E.. What do you mean there are no Rifts what is a space fold, how else would you bring RT into Rifts? Just because you can't see the ley lines doesn't mean their not there (e.g. BtS).

[Killer Cyborg]

1. The FoL is alive and I see them as Telepathic/Telemechanic life forms. That enable the will of the pilot to translate into enhanced performance of machine. I figure if anything the Magic of Rifts Earth should enhance this. The power produced by protoculture is basically a PPE battery any way you place a seed of the FoL under extreme pressure causing it to produce energy. Basically you torture it causing it to produce double it's P.P.E.. What do you mean there are no Rifts what is a space fold, how else would you bring RT into Rifts? Just because you can't see the ley lines doesn't mean their not there (e.g. BtS).

2. Humans have grown and flourished around leylines so why can't elements of Hayden a God?

1. Torture doesn't double something's PPE. There is no indication that the Flower of Life has any more PPE than a normal flower. Just because Robotech Earth shares the same geography with BtS Earth doesn't mean that it shares the same Geomancy... but really, if you don't like that explanation come up with your own.
I don't make the rules, I just try to rationalize them.

2. Still lost me. "elements of a god"? Hayden? What, the Flowers of Life are god fragments? If so, then so what?

[Zer0 Kay]

Personally I agree with you - if you dont like the answer we give, and are sticking to your own, then dont come to us for rationaliziation when youve made up your mind already

Was that directed towards me?

Also if you consider the novels horrible then why not Robotech itself it is after all the bastardization of three perfectly good animes into one amerimes. Almost as bad fan done joke dubbs, but at least they were ment to be that way.

[Zer0 Kay]

1. The FoL is alive and I see them as Telepathic/Telemechanic life forms. That enable the will of the pilot to translate into enhanced performance of machine. I figure if anything the Magic of Rifts Earth should enhance this. The power produced by protoculture is basically a PPE battery any way you place a seed of the FoL under extreme pressure causing it to produce energy. Basically you torture it causing it to produce double it's P.P.E.. What do you mean there are no Rifts what is a space fold, how else would you bring RT into Rifts? Just because you can't see the ley lines doesn't mean their not there (e.g. BtS).

2. Humans have grown and flourished around leylines so why can't elements of Hayden a God?

1. Torture doesn't double something's PPE. There is no indication that the Flower of Life has any more PPE than a normal flower. Just because Robotech Earth shares the same geography with BtS Earth doesn't mean that it shares the same Geomancy... but really, if you don't like that explanation come up with your own.
I don't make the rules, I just try to rationalize them.

2. Still lost me. "elements of a god"? Hayden? What, the Flowers of Life are god fragments? If so, then so what?

Diabolist 1st ed. PFRPG says something about the suffering of a creature increasing the amount of PPE produced. Maybe it's not double but it is increased.

There is nowhere that says RT doesn't share BtS Geomancy. Just because you can't see them and no one uses them doesn't mean Leylines are not there. Oh and that is rationalizing "THE RULES" how else would RT Xover to Rifts? Aside from my idea that Space Folding is using a distance only Rift generator. That could fail and displace into other dimensions as well, which would usually require the transfer of a capital ship.

[Killer Cyborg]

There is nowhere that says RT doesn't share BtS Geomancy. Just because you can't see them and no one uses them doesn't mean Leylines are not there.

They don't say it directly; why would they?
Just add a little note in the Robotech book that says
"By the way, there are no ley lines on this version of Earth."

Leaving everybody wondering "What's a ley line?"

The absense of ley lines on Robotech Earth can be inferred from the fact that there is no magic in the Robotech universe.
There's magic in HU.
There's magic in Palladium.
There's magic in BtS.
Ninjas & Superspies has chi-powers and geomancy.
Robotech has nada.

If they had ley-lines of any significant strength, why wouldn't there be any arcanists like there are in BtS?
Or Palladium style mages?
Or anything...?

[Marcethus]

I believe somewhere though I am not sure where I read it; it says that the reason there are no mages on RT earth is because of these reasons:
1. The leylines are at there absolute lowest power in all the megaverse. Meaning that they most likely can't be detected even by a line walker if he was standing on one.
2. The knowledge of magic and the ley lines was lost. I mean come on over 70% of the population was blitzed in the global assault by the zentreadi.
3. In the light that no magic exists in the series they decided to leave it out and just say that the ley lines are at the lowest ebb so as not to get anybodies panties in a uproar.

Though number 3 is more of my opinion than something I read.
I also recall the ley lines being at there lowest ebb being the answer as to why Rt earth didn't go the way of Rifts earth when over 70% of the population of earth was killed off in the zent's global assault.

[Zer0 Kay]

There is nowhere that says RT doesn't share BtS Geomancy. Just because you can't see them and no one uses them doesn't mean Leylines are not there.

They don't say it directly; why would they?
Just add a little note in the Robotech book that says
"By the way, there are no ley lines on this version of Earth."

Leaving everybody wondering "What's a ley line?"

The absense of ley lines on Robotech Earth can be inferred from the fact that there is no magic in the Robotech universe.
There's magic in HU.
There's magic in Palladium.
There's magic in BtS.
Ninjas & Superspies has chi-powers and geomancy.
Robotech has nada.

If they had ley-lines of any significant strength, why wouldn't there be any arcanists like there are in BtS?
Or Palladium style mages?
Or anything...?

ARgh it's a game!! That's your way. This is mine.

First they don't need to it's a game. As you stated no one in Robotech uses magic so no one would notice. So in your game it's an absence of Leylines in mine it's an absence of magic users.

Mechanoids doesn't have Ley Lines either but they were Rifted to Rifts Earth... How'd that happen? RT, Rifts Xovers hows that happen?

No there wouldn't just like in Mechanoids or TMNT (which by the way has magic users but no ley lines or dragon lines.)

[Zer0 Kay]

Though number 3 is more of my opinion than something I read.
I also recall the ley lines being at there lowest ebb being the answer as to why Rt earth didn't go the way of Rifts earth when over 70% of the population of earth was killed off in the zent's global assault

The original level of the Ley Lines would have to be extremely low. I wonder if it can go negative, actually drawing the PPE from the inhabitants of Earth. Maybe after the near annihilation of humanity the Ley Lines would be detectable by a Walker. Hmm Negative PPE a planet that changes mages into normal people.

[Killer Cyborg]

[quote="Zer0 Kay]
ARgh it's a game!! That's your way. This is mine.
[/quote]

So why do you keep arguing with me?

First they don't need to it's a game. As you stated no one in Robotech uses magic so no one would notice. So in your game it's an absence of Leylines in mine it's an absence of magic users.

Whatever floats your boat.

Mechanoids doesn't have Ley Lines either but they were Rifted to Rifts Earth... How'd that happen? RT, Rifts Xovers hows that happen?

Didn't you read the Sourcebook?
A Rift was opened from Rifts Earth to the Mechanoid universe.

Besides, there are other ways to travel from one dimension to another besides Rifts.
Read Transdimensional TMNT.

No there wouldn't just like in Mechanoids or TMNT (which by the way has magic users but no ley lines or dragon lines.)

You don't need ley lines to have magic... it just helps because the presence of ley lines increases the magical energy of the environment.

[Zer0 Kay]

Yes - my comment was directed right between your eyes, especially after your last series of replies

"That is your way, this is mine" - you want an opinion, or do you want feedback or do you just want validation? Spoon feed us your answer and we will happily regurgitate it back to you

As for the bastardization of the series - nothing has caused more headache then those novels, even the series misspalettes and sinkholes for plot holes.

It all comes to a bottom line of: Do what you want to do for your game.

First as I recall I didn't come to you or KC I came to the thread and it was simply to share my thoughts.

Second, "That is your way, this is mine" was deffensive because my thoughts were being attacked. I thought I was giving my opinions as opinions. Then your (not neccessarily meaning you) opinions being given as canon. I know there opinions but for some reason it felt as if I was underattack. So I went on the deffensive. I don't want anyones regurgitation I just don't like when I give an opinion even going so far as to put some opinions in the form of a question.

Third, wether or not I enjoy Robotech and I do it was still a bastardization. As far as the books yes they do have their problems but after the series ended with the demise of Sentinels after three episodes anything is better than nothing. Besides I really only subscribe to the Sentinels novels because in some cases it actually answered questions or made background more interesting. For another reason it's harder to mess up plotline when there was none made. For an example of bacgroud the story of Rick Hunter's attraction tword a Military Specialist, that was sent to Earth (the one in Next Gen. with the Syncro Cannon), because Lisa knew Rick liked her. Granted they mess it up alot in some parts sending Bella to scout a few paragraphs later calling her Gnea.

Last... Your right as KS has said before the books are just a guideline.

[Zer0 Kay]

ARgh it's a game!! That's your way. This is mine.

So why do you keep arguing with me?

Why are you arguing with me? I gave my opinion as an opinion and then it seemed as if your trying to say your view is canon.

Mechanoids doesn't have Ley Lines either but they were Rifted to Rifts Earth... How'd that happen? RT, Rifts Xovers hows that happen?

Didn't you read the Sourcebook?
A Rift was opened from Rifts Earth to the Mechanoid universe.

In order to have a rift either both sides have to have ley lines or a technological way of generating one or one side could have ley lines and the other the technology method.

Besides, there are other ways to travel from one dimension to another besides Rifts.
Read Transdimensional TMNT.

Actually can you get to Rifts Earth via TD TMNT? I forget where the time barrier is.

No there wouldn't just like in Mechanoids or TMNT (which by the way has magic users but no ley lines or dragon lines.)

You don't need ley lines to have magic... it just helps because the presence of ley lines increases the magical energy of the environment.

[/quote]

Guess that makes sense. Oh and your earlier comment on Torture/ suffering not increasing PPE. You are right that must have been some psychic vampire I was reading. Only death increases PPE and an unwilling subject that knows your trying to draw PPE is impossible to drain any PPE from.

[Killer Cyborg]

In order to have a rift either both sides have to have ley lines or a technological way of generating one or one side could have ley lines and the other the technology method.

Wherever did you get that idea?

Actually can you get to Rifts Earth via TD TMNT? I forget where the time barrier is.

Not in the same dimension, so the time barrier doesn't really matter.

[Killer Cyborg]

ARgh it's a game!! That's your way. This is mine.

So why do you keep arguing with me?

Why are you arguing with me? I gave my opinion as an opinion and then it seemed as if your trying to say your view is canon.

LOL... I don't know what conversation you're been in...

Here's where it started:

The more I think on the matter, the more I realize a problem with ley lines inhibiting the flower of life. Technically, or mystically if you prefer, ley lines exist today. Which infers that ley lines exist in the setting of Robotech. Therefore, it makes sense that the flower of life could grow in the presence of a ley line.

Take your pick:
1. Robotech Earth has no ley-lines. It's a parallel Earth, not an exact copy, and that's one of the differences. No magic exists in the robotech universes, and this may be because no ley lines exist there.
2. The ley lines on Rifts Earth are much more powerful than on Robotech Earth, thus they are powerful enough to interfere with the protoculture growth.

What is the point of your statement? That they could or couldn't grow near leylines because of x?

One word for number one Perytonians.
For number two Humans.

Cranus said that the rules didn't make sense.
I said that they did.
Then you jumped in with perytonians and humans...

If you don't like the rule that says no protoculture can grow within 100 miles of a ley line, don't play that way.
But it IS canon.

Why it can't grow there is up for speculation.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Now, without sounding stupid: whats a dragon line?

Think is another name for ley lines.

[Zer0 Kay]

ARgh it's a game!! That's your way. This is mine.

So why do you keep arguing with me?

Why are you arguing with me? I gave my opinion as an opinion and then it seemed as if your trying to say your view is canon.

LOL... I don't know what conversation you're been in...

Here's where it started:

The more I think on the matter, the more I realize a problem with ley lines inhibiting the flower of life. Technically, or mystically if you prefer, ley lines exist today. Which infers that ley lines exist in the setting of Robotech. Therefore, it makes sense that the flower of life could grow in the presence of a ley line.

Take your pick:
1. Robotech Earth has no ley-lines. It's a parallel Earth, not an exact copy, and that's one of the differences. No magic exists in the robotech universes, and this may be because no ley lines exist there.
2. The ley lines on Rifts Earth are much more powerful than on Robotech Earth, thus they are powerful enough to interfere with the protoculture growth.

What is the point of your statement? That they could or couldn't grow near leylines because of x?

One word for number one Perytonians.
For number two Humans.

Cranus said that the rules didn't make sense.
I said that they did.
Then you jumped in with perytonians and humans...

If you don't like the rule that says no protoculture can grow within 100 miles of a ley line, don't play that way.
But it IS canon.

Why it can't grow there is up for speculation.

OK I got it

[Zer0 Kay]

In order to have a rift either both sides have to have ley lines or a technological way of generating one or one side could have ley lines and the other the technology method.

Wherever did you get that idea?

Hmm now that you mention it probably my head. However to me it makes sense that way, the Rift is two sided you can see it on both ends it doesn't happen as a giant gate on Rifts Earth side and nothing on the other.

Actually can you get to Rifts Earth via TD TMNT? I forget where the time barrier is.

Not in the same dimension, so the time barrier doesn't really matter.

Well according to Transdimensional TMNT it does. The time barrier in any dimension can be traveled past. I can get that out of my book.

[Zer0 Kay]

You have absolutly not reason to be defensive - no one here is launching an attack against you, so why would you? Your being, however, very difficult to try and communicate with -

If its a lession learned long ago on these boards - dont post stuff here unless you ready for it to get commented on in ways you dont always agree with and like - its a public forum after all.

Now, without sounding stupid: whats a dragon line?

Dragon line is what they call Ley lines in the astral plain in Night Spawn. I think it is supposed to be considered like flowing Chi there. I can quote the particulars from the book if you'd like.

[Killer Cyborg]

to me it makes sense that way, the Rift is two sided you can see it on both ends it doesn't happen as a giant gate on Rifts Earth side and nothing on the other.

Well, there don't seem to be many rules for "Rifts" (the phenomena, not the game).
We've played them as transparent, opaque, one sided, two sided, "sucking", "blowing", glowing, dark, and weirder stuff.

In any case, my main point is that rifts can occur without ley lines.

Actually can you get to Rifts Earth via TD TMNT? I forget where the time barrier is.

Not in the same dimension, so the time barrier doesn't really matter.

Well according to Transdimensional TMNT it does. The time barrier in any dimension can be traveled past. I can get that out of my book.[/quote]

Time may not flow at the same rate in every dimension. It may be 1888 in one dimension, and 1999 in the next dimension over.
Does it say this in the book?
Probably not. But I don't see anything that precludes the idea.

In any case...
The Time Barrier is June 10, 2986.
Quite a long time after Rifts.

[Zer0 Kay]

to me it makes sense that way, the Rift is two sided you can see it on both ends it doesn't happen as a giant gate on Rifts Earth side and nothing on the other.

Well, there don't seem to be many rules for "Rifts" (the phenomena, not the game).
We've played them as transparent, opaque, one sided, two sided, "sucking", "blowing", glowing, dark, and weirder stuff.

In any case, my main point is that rifts can occur without ley lines.

So where does it say that? Funny though Rift can be Mega-maid

Actually can you get to Rifts Earth via TD TMNT? I forget where the time barrier is.

Not in the same dimension, so the time barrier doesn't really matter.

Well according to Transdimensional TMNT it does. The time barrier in any dimension can be traveled past. I can get that out of my book.

Time may not flow at the same rate in every dimension. It may be 1888 in one dimension, and 1999 in the next dimension over.
Does it say this in the book?
Probably not. But I don't see anything that precludes the idea.

In any case...
The Time Barrier is June 10, 2986.
Quite a long time after Rifts.

Is it that time doesn't flow the same or that they use different definitions? Maybe not all dimensions transferred to the Gregorian Calendar, some may still use the Julian or may have transfered to the more scientific BCE and CE or still may use the Metonic calendar. Maybe Christ wasn't borne at the same time in one dimension which would change the Gregorian callendar so it may be 1888 instead of 1999 because he was born 111 years late. Maybe the dimension has the same technology base at 1888 as we did in 1999. Maybe because of the late coming of Christ some events didn't take place to advance the technology so they do have an 1888 technology base. There are a lot of what ifs. None the less there is a barrier in TMNT and it stretches across all the dimensions in ours it's 6/ 10/2986 in another dimension with altered time flow it would be different. I had always thought of the barrier as being across a point in the time coil. So you have all dimensions on this time coil some faster some slower all on the same coil, then the coil is cut at both ends which form the two barriers. Thanks for not making me look up the date.

[Killer Cyborg]

So where does it say that? Funny though Rift can be Mega-maid

It never says that ley lines ARE necessary for rifts to open up. Anywhere.
The Dimensional Rift spell never says anything about not being able to cast it away from ley lines.

[Drakenred®™©]

you know the bad part of all of this, this is kind of like trying to mix Startreck Starwars and Galactica and make it all make sence,

just wing it Studs, Its what HG did.