What are they?

[dataweaver]

Two OCCs follow; what would you call them?

Code: Select all

Radio: Basic (+10%)
Radio: Scrambler (+10%)
Surveillance Systems (+10%)
Escape Artist (+10%)
Acrobatics (+10%)
Climbing (+15%)
Prowl (+20%)
Land Navigation (+10%)
Streetwise (+10%)
two W.P. Ancient
two W.P. Modern
W.P. Energy Rifle
Hand to Hand: Martial Arts

Ten OCC-related skills and 6 Secondary skills.  No Electrical skills; Mechanical is limited to Automotive or Locksmith; Medical is limited to Paramedic or Holistic Medicine; Science is limited to Math or Astronomy.  +5% to Communications, Military, Pilot, and Rogue; +10% to Espionage, Medical, and Physical.

Code: Select all

Radio: Basic (+10%)
Wilderness Survival (+5%)
Land Navigation (+5%)
two Pilot (+10%)
three Language (+10%)
two W.P.
W.P. Knife
W.P. Energy Rifle
Hand to Hand: Expert

Seven OCC-Related skills and six Secondary skills.  No Medical skills; Electrical is limited to Basic; Espionage is limited to Intelligence, Escape Artist, Detect Ambush, or Detect Concealment; Mechanical is limited to Automotive; Science is limited to Math: Basic.  +5% to Espionage, military-style Pilot, and Pilot-Related; +10% to Military and Physical; +15% to Prowl.

[Killer Cyborg]

#1 sounds like a Scout to me.
#2 sounds like a Smuggler... but I think that OCC name is taken. How about Transporter? Bootlegger? Trucker?

[RoadWarriorFWaNK]

i would call them boring.

[Dustin Fireblade]

#1 sounds really messed up to be honest. Somebody trying to be a spy or assasin but limited by the fact that they can't get access to electrical (thereby nullifying the use of the Surveillance Systems skill), no computer skills sounds really strange to not have. With those and access to the Rogue skills plus a better bonus to Locksmith they could get into a lot of tech places by defeating automated security systems.

#2 sounds more like the military style scout to me, though I don't see why they could not have access to at least First Aid and Basic Mechanics. And tallowing access to Wilderness skills would help.

Hope thats some help to whatever you are doing.

[dataweaver]

What I was trying to do was to figure out the rationale behind the skills given to the Crazies and Juicers, respectively (it's part of an attempt at making Rifts character creation more versatile for my group by separating training from empowerment); so I presented the skills of those two OCCs without mentioning where they came from in order to find out how well they'd stand on their own.

[RoadWarriorFWaNK]

What I was trying to do was to figure out the rationale behind the skills given to the Crazies and Juicers, respectively (it's part of an attempt at making Rifts character creation more versatile for my group by separating training from empowerment); so I presented the skills of those two OCCs without mentioning where they came from in order to find out how well they'd stand on their own.

lol well there you go. Without their superhuman abilities, those OCCs would have to rely on a piddley selection of skills. Thank god for superhuman abilities.

[grandmaster z0b]

I've always thought the crazy skill selection is, well crazy! They can't get electrical or many computer but can get Locksmith and Surveillance Systems? If they don't have electrical they actually couldn't get Surveillance Systems and only the mechanical version of locksmith. I give Crazies in my games access to all Electrical and Mechanical skills.
Actually I pretty much let any character have any skill if it makes sense with their character's background and dosen't overpower them.

[Dustin Fireblade]

What I was trying to do was to figure out the rationale behind the skills given to the Crazies and Juicers, respectively (it's part of an attempt at making Rifts character creation more versatile for my group by separating training from empowerment); so I presented the skills of those two OCCs without mentioning where they came from in order to find out how well they'd stand on their own.

Rationale in Rifts? I don't mean this in a bad way at all to you but don't try it cause you will only hurt yourself.

Anyway I've never paid much attention to the Crazy, and I do something completely different for mercs (namely a blanket skill package that allows a lot of variation for merc style OCC's whatever they are)

[dataweaver]

Well, the haphazard skill selections for Crazies make sense cause they are... well... crazy! No sense needed.

I'm pretty sure Juicers have limited skills because of either:

1) some unusual attempt at play balance (rare in Rifts) or

2) because Juicers tend to rely on their enhanced abilities over learning stuff. I mean, c'mon... you've got 5 years to live, are you really going to take 4 years to get a college degree or sit around reading books?

Remember that Crazies typically go through two years of military service for the kingdom that funded their conversion; I credit their training to that. Since the training regime is most likely being put together by non-Augmented career soldiers, I'd think that there would be a bit more sense behind it.

As for Juicers: That sounds reasonable - although it seems to conflict with the Assassin, Gladiator, and Scout OCCs from Juicer Uprisings (which, in the paradigm that I'm working on, are either redundant with similar OCCs found elsewhere or can be taken by non-Juicers; I'll have to run some comparisons). I suspect that I'll probably end up scrapping the Juicer skill-set; instead, I'll probably rely on the Juicer Wannabe skill set to represent the "typical" Juicer (on the premise that the most common Juicer is someone who fell in love with the lifestyle some time before actually getting the augmentation, and who developed most of his skills before actually getting the conversion). Of the other Juicer OCCs (as opposed to Juicer types) mentioned in Juicer Uprisings, I suspect that only Gladiator will stick around, and maybe not even that (I've developed a great fondness for Rifts Australia, which has its own gladiator-like OCC).

BTW, what exactly is it that the typical Juicer does? Setting aside the professional assassins, gladiators, and scouts, that is.

It's also worth noting that the augmentation descriptions make references to skill bonuses from superhuman reflexes, etc. which have already been figured into the skills; I'd suspect that non-Augmented versions of these OCCs would lose up to 10% worth of bonuses from the various Physical skills.

[dataweaver]

Rationale in Rifts? I don't mean this in a bad way at all to you but don't try it cause you will only hurt yourself.

Anyway I've never paid much attention to the Crazy, and I do something completely different for mercs (namely a blanket skill package that allows a lot of variation for merc style OCC's whatever they are)

I'd be interested in seeing that.

[dataweaver]

Remember that Crazies typically go through two years of military service for the kingdom that funded their conversion; I credit their training to that. Since the training regime is most likely being put together by non-Augmented career soldiers, I'd think that there would be a bit more sense behind it.

True, but then they get a bunch of stuff crammed in their head and wired to their brain. I'm just guessing, but I bet that screws with what skills/knowledge they used to have during those two years of training. The skills that are left are what little remained and plus some things that just spontaneously appeared from brain short circuiting.

The whole notion of a mental short-circuit leading to new skills snaps my reality suspenders a bit too much; sorry. And it's two years of service, not two years of training. I suspect that it's only six months or so of training. Plus, I've seen no indications anywhere else that the negative side effects of being a Crazy ever involve any sort of skill degradation.

I'm thinking about scrapping the Crazy skill set as well, and just treating the typical Crazy as a Super-Spy (as per Rifts Mercenaries).

As for Juicers: That sounds reasonable - although it seems to conflict with the Assassin, Gladiator, and Scout OCCs from Juicer Uprisings.

I treat the JU special OCCs as someone that used to be a gladiator, assassin, scout, or what have you before they got the Juicer conversion. The Juicer from the book is someone who impulsively got the conversion done before they really started any kind of career. The JU OCCs are essentially "professional" Juicers. Just the way I do it.

Agreed about the "professional Juicers" bit. As for the other bit, I'm thinking of handling that type of character as a Vagabond or barbarian (the "wild psi-stalker" skill package) with Juicer powers. I really don't think that there's enough redeeming qualities in the Juicer or Crazy basic skill-sets to justify keeping them around.

[Vrykolas2k]

#1 Juicier pornstar

#2 Crazy fluffer....

This is wrong.
Funny as hell, but wrong...

[Vrykolas2k]

#1... Loser.

#2... Lamer.

[dataweaver]

The whole notion of a mental short-circuit leading to new skills snaps my reality suspenders a bit too much; sorry.

Okay. But I got this from the Mindwerks sourcebook, which goes into deeper details about the side effects of MOM implants and what happens when a character gets them installed for the first time (like if you had a previous OCC for example).

It has a Brain Damage effect that outright states "The character can peform 1d4+1 known skills or one previously unknown skill (players choice) at 98%."

Huh; wierd.

If you want to house rule this out, that is up to you.

Not so much rule this out as keep it as a freak happenstance rather than the default effect of brain implants.

I really don't think that there's enough redeeming qualities in the Juicer or Crazy basic skill-sets to justify keeping them around.

Whatever floats your boat cowboy. You've got your reasons, I've got mine.

Yeah, well... part of the reason for this thread is so that I can hear your reasons. I try not to be close-minded about these things; and if you've thought of something which I overlooked (such as the Side Effects involving skills), I'm likely to adjust my thinking to suit.

[Dustin Fireblade]

Rationale in Rifts? I don't mean this in a bad way at all to you but don't try it cause you will only hurt yourself.

Anyway I've never paid much attention to the Crazy, and I do something completely different for mercs (namely a blanket skill package that allows a lot of variation for merc style OCC's whatever they are)

I'd be interested in seeing that.

I'll PM it to you either later today or possibly Saturday

[Zer0 Kay]

I've always thought the crazy skill selection is, well crazy! They can't get electrical or many computer but can get Locksmith and Surveillance Systems? If they don't have electrical they actually couldn't get Surveillance Systems and only the mechanical version of locksmith. I give Crazies in my games access to all Electrical and Mechanical skills.
Actually I pretty much let any character have any skill if it makes sense with their character's background and dosen't overpower them.

Crazies can't learn electronics because they always lick the two ends of the live wire and like it so are distracted from the rest of the instruction.

Classes taken for mechanics usually get stopped after the crazies tounge gets stuck in the blender class project.

[Zer0 Kay]

#1... Loser.

#2... Lamer.

Makes sense
1. Someone who gets hooked on drugs then gets buffed and has thrill issues.

"I'm outa juice man, need more. Anything....I'll do anything just give me more!!"

2. A geek who thought augmenting his brain would allow him to rule the universe. Which gets twisted into rule the Twinkyverse.

"By the Power of Yellow Twinkey. I have the cream filling!!"

[Vrykolas2k]

#1... Loser.

#2... Lamer.

Makes sense
1. Someone who gets hooked on drugs then gets buffed and has thrill issues.

"I'm outa juice man, need more. Anything....I'll do anything just give me more!!"

2. A geek who thought augmenting his brain would allow him to rule the universe. Which gets twisted into rule the Twinkyverse.

"By the Power of Yellow Twinkey. I have the cream filling!!"

Yes... yes.

[dataweaver]

Umm... you guys do realize that #1 is the Crazy, and #2 is the Juicer, right?