Can fusion blocks explode in an sdc fire?

[Ankhr]

The title pretty much asks the question. Our group had a situation in which a sdc jeep was hit by md weapons and blew up. The question about weather the fusion blocks would be treated like plastique in mercs( and had to have an electric charge)or they would explode was not answered in any book. Any help would be appericated because even our gm thought the wording in the gm's guide was able to be taken two ways.

[chaserone]

I guess it would depend on what the casing around the fusion block was made of. Since the name of the explosive denotes that it is a nuclear related weapon, that it would depend on if the casings inside were damaged in anyway from the explosion. I guess this would be a question that Palladium Books should clarify.

[Athos]

It would depend on what detonates the fusion reaction, if the detonator is sensitive to fire, then yes they would go off, if the detonator is not sensitive to fire then no. If no detonators were in the blocks, then I would say no, they would burn, but not explode.

I have seen C4 burn, and it's bright, but it doesn't explode. You have to get a detonator that burns faster than C4 to ignite it into an explostion. A regular fire won't work.

[chaserone]

The problem is, fusion blocks are not plastique... They basically small nuclear bombs as stated in the name of the weapon "Fusion". The reaction causing the explosion could generally be one of the many ways to set off a chain reaction, such as mixing an unstable version of Hydrogen with something that will cause the isotopic reaction, such as plutonium or uranium.

Setting the elements on fire will do no more than make them burn, but to mix the seperate casings in which cause the nuclear reaction, by burning a hole or disrupting the device, could. Mind you, by Rifts time-lines, the technological levels would probably prevent this with precautionary measures, yet, who knows?

[Killer Cyborg]

Fusion blocks don't detonate from fire.

[Dr. Doom III]

No.

[Jason Richards]

Fusion blocks don't detonate from fire.

[(SHIFTY)]

if it's on TV then yes, as things tend to explode when they crash, roll down a hill, any old reason, etc, etc.

in the Rifts RPG, I'd treat Fusion Blocks as plastique, and they only detonate with the correct fuses/detonator. The fire might ruin them if they're not MDC structures themselves.

I always thought this. As a mater of fact I think this topic came up in a game I was in. The GM at that time ruled it as NORMAL fire could not harm the fusion block but if it was MAGICAL fire or MDC fire than it would harm the fusion block.

[The Galactus Kid]

nuclear is not fussion it is fission (breaking apart)
It takes an extreme amount of energy to make atoms "fuse" together which in-turn will release energy.

A regular (and simple) nuclear device is a fision device. The "fatman" and "little boy" bombs that wer dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were of this type. They used very dense elements, such as uranium and plutonium, and used an explosive to force a wedge of similarly dense material into the uranium. This, in turn causes a fision explosion.

A more complicated (and DEVASTATING) device is the fusion, or Hydrogen, bomb. The Fusion bomb actually has a sphere of perfectly shaped explosive charges surrounding dense hydrogen. When the explosives simultaniously detonate, they create a massive inward force, fusing the hydrogen atoms and releasing massive ammounts of energy.

[Josh Sinsapaugh]

I'd say....no.

[Vrykolas2k]

No. Treat a fusion block like super-plastique: fire isn't going to set off but *serious* electricity might do the trick (particle beams too).

Fire will set of plastique, if it is subjected to pressure while burning.
As for the fusion blocks... I have yet to read what the things are made of.

[Ankhr]

Thanks for all the input. Most of the opinons are that an sdc fire wouldn't set off a fusion block.

[chaserone]

Simple.
They're nuclear weapons.

Okay, okay, so by one definition given here, nuclear implies fission. I'm not sure why, both have a great deal to do with nuclei, but I won't nitpick on a matter of terminology. A fusion block is basically a small H-bomb.
One thing to bear in mind when dealing with nuclear weapons or fusion weapons is that they're really very, very stable. That's why SDI (satellite defense initiative) and Star Wars was an even remotely practical concept: you can shoot them down. I refer to ICBM's, but the concept is roughly the same.

Ah heck. Look up the mechanism for a hydrogen bomb somewhere online. It'll answer your question once and for all, and we won't have to worry about people arguing whether fire can set them off or not. I know how I'd answer, and how I'd argue vehemently, but objective knowledge is always more useful than what you pick up in a forum board, yes?

I had stated this earlier but the forum community immediately shot it down. Maybe Im wrong about the radioactive variable elements involved, but I know the concept.

The problem is, fusion blocks are not plastique... They basically small nuclear bombs as stated in the name of the weapon "Fusion". The reaction causing the explosion could generally be one of the many ways to set off a chain reaction, such as mixing an unstable version of Hydrogen with something that will cause the isotopic reaction, such as plutonium or uranium.

Setting the elements on fire will do no more than make them burn, but to mix the seperate casings in which cause the nuclear reaction, by burning a hole or disrupting the device, could. Mind you, by Rifts time-lines, the technological levels would probably prevent this with precautionary measures, yet, who knows?

What I was basically trying to state, is if the fusion block is made of SDC casings, if the SDC fire became hot enough, then it may mix the components to start the reaction by either heating the casings and warping them, or melting the electrical wires, causing a short. As such causing the reaction to occur...

Something to think about, would you stand near a fire that someone threw a fusion block into. Seriously, in real life, if there was a such thing as a VHS sized nuclear device and someone tossed it into a bonfire, I sure in the hell wouldn't be standing next to it. Yet it isnt C-4 or nitroglycerin or compound used for dynamite or black powder. Most of those are set off by a fire, heat, pressure and/or electricity. Fusion is a chemical reaction... and quite a volatile one, which is why fusion blocks make great keys.

To ask another question, if you dropped a fusion block off of a cliff or out of an airplane, would you trust it not to detonate? I seriously wouldnt know because of that Murphy factor. It all depends on how the chain of events fall into place.

Batteries, for flashlights are very stable when in your hand, try tossing one into a campfire and stand near it. Trust me, I know, it hurts... (by the way, it wasnt me that threw it into the fire....)

[Svartalf]

Frankly, I just wonder why so many people insist Fusion Blocks hold a nuke charge... to me, the name is just hype.

The blast radius just looks too small and contained to be a real H bomb.

So I fall back on the idea it's just some kind of C 200... and plastic cannot be detonated by meare heat or shock.

[Svartalf]

The description for fusion blocks is very specific about what destroys them. Setting them will do it. Blasting it to pieces, dropping it, kicking it, or applying flame will do nothing other than reduce the fusion block into scraps of plastic and metal.

err... what description? my RMB and GMG are not specific at all

[Zer0 Kay]

Now I know that in the original Mechanoids fusion blocks were tempermental, but that was in the detonators used and specifically stated the only way they'd go off was via the detonators,...or a shot by a particle beam. I don't recall anything in Rifts stating that fusion blocks are unstable. If I'm wrong, certain someone will catch that.

As for detonating them with weapons fire,...I'd call it as about the same chance of setting off a nuke with weapons fire which, contrary to popular/bad fiction, is nil. That need for critical mass for a detonation and all that. I guess the question one has to ask is: 'how does a fusion block work IMRC (In My Rifts Campaign)?' Maybe it's the ultimate expression of the suitcase nuke, in this case a very clean micro-nuke. Maybe a quickfire laser to heat a hydrogen fuel and a mag field to last just long enough to contain it til it hits fusion-state. Though with the above types, really not prone to detonation by weapons fire.

Or it could be M.D. shaped charges focused inward on weapons grade radioactive material. With this method, depending on the explosive material used , the bomb might be able to be detonated from fire. This method would likely be the product of low tech and would likely produce high radiation levels as well. Or would that be how a fission block would work...I forget.

[Svartalf]

The description for fusion blocks is very specific about what destroys them. Setting them will do it. Blasting it to pieces, dropping it, kicking it, or applying flame will do nothing other than reduce the fusion block into scraps of plastic and metal.

err... what description? my RMB and GMG are not specific at all

In the same section where it explains why you can't really throw a fusion block, I think. It says that it's inert and that blasting it won't set it off.

Neither my RMB, 2nd printing, nor My GMG say anything about that...
Just what book are you drawing from?

[Borast]

Frankly, I just wonder why so many people insist Fusion Blocks hold a nuke charge... to me, the name is just hype.

The blast radius just looks too small and contained to be a real H bomb.

So I fall back on the idea it's just some kind of C 200... and plastic cannot be detonated by meare heat or shock.

Don't forget...actual nuclear weapons (missiles) in PB games have blast radii of only a few score feet. The fact that an actual fighter jet delivered nuclear missile has a "blast radius of almost half a kilometre, if not more.

As for the Fusion block...I just call them super plastique as well, and let it go at that. That means that unless the method if destruction includes an electric flow (ie: ion weapons), the block will not go off. Also, other than the casing MIGHT warp, it won't take any real damage from an SDC fire. Also, I just treat it as a simple demolitions charge, which due to the fact that it has to be used in the field, it has been made as "idiot-proof," er grunt friendly as possible.

[Zer0 Kay]

Frankly, I just wonder why so many people insist Fusion Blocks hold a nuke charge... to me, the name is just hype.

The blast radius just looks too small and contained to be a real H bomb.

So I fall back on the idea it's just some kind of C 200... and plastic cannot be detonated by meare heat or shock.

Don't forget...actual nuclear weapons (missiles) in PB games have blast radii of only a few score feet. The fact that an actual fighter jet delivered nuclear missile has a "blast radius of almost half a kilometre, if not more.

As for the Fusion block...I just call them super plastique as well, and let it go at that. That means that unless the method if destruction includes an electric flow (ie: ion weapons), the block will not go off. Also, other than the casing MIGHT warp, it won't take any real damage from an SDC fire. Also, I just treat it as a simple demolitions charge, which due to the fact that it has to be used in the field, it has been made as "idiot-proof," er grunt friendly as possible.

So what your saying the container says "this side tword target" and "DO NOT EAT"?