Rifts vs. GURPS

[Killer Cyborg]

I was looking over the "Why Do You Play Rifts?" topic and started sorting out the reasons.
It seems to break down like this (so far):
1 person said they do it for the power.
1 person said they like the struggle between good and evil
6 people said that they liked the setting
16 people said that they liked the "Endless Possibilites" of the game; that you could be a ninja, a robot, a dragon, a mage, a psychic, etc.

What about GURPS?
GURPS has as much variety as Rifts, probably even more. Not only do they have their generic worlds like GURPS: SUPERS, they also have specific worlds like GURPS: Wild Cards that work within that context. They have incorperated a number of other games of a such a wide variety that you could be pretty much anything from a Watership Down style rabbit to a Mecha pilot.
If your GM is creative, you could probably do both...

I assume that most of the people here prefer Rifts over GURPS. I know I do.
I am curious as to the reason(s) why, though.
So which do you prefer, and why?

[Athos]

I assume that most of the people here prefer Rifts over GURPS. I know I do.
I am curious as to the reason(s) why, though.
So which do you prefer, and why?

Rifts has the setting that makes a great backdrop for almost any kind of game. Powerful, meek, magical or technological, it has a place. With Rifts, its all about the cool setting.

How can you not love Rifts Earth?

[Svartalf]

I don't really see a point of comparison between Rifts and GURPS.

One is a math heavy, point based, ultra generic system aimed at doing a lot, but specifically good for nothing, and not made with any special setting in mind.

the other is a relatively simpler D&D influenced system that was specifically tweaked to go with the official campaign setting.

[Killer Cyborg]

I don't really see a point of comparison between Rifts and GURPS.

One is a math heavy, point based, ultra generic system aimed at doing a lot, but specifically good for nothing, and not made with any special setting in mind.

the other is a relatively simpler D&D influenced system that was specifically tweaked to go with the official campaign setting.

Nobody mentioned the system when they explained why they played Rifts.
At least, nobody mentioned it in a nice way...

So it doesn't seem to me that the system is the biggest draw to the game... or even a very significant draw.

The point of comparing the two games is because I'm trying to find out:
a) What Rifts has that attracts people
b) What GURPS has (or lacks) that drives people away.

I already know my own reasons for prefering Rifts, I just want to know other people's reasons.
Apparently, your reasons are that you don't like math intensive systems that are overall solid but which have nothing specifically great about them...?

[Killer Cyborg]

Rifts has the setting that makes a great backdrop for almost any kind of game. Powerful, meek, magical or technological, it has a place. With Rifts, its all about the cool setting.

How can you not love Rifts Earth?

This was one of my theories; that Rifts Earth specifically provided a place for all different world to meet and merge.

So my question to you is:
If GURPS provided a specific setting that provided a solid backdrop for any type of game, the way Rifts Earth does, would you be likely to switch to GURPS?
Or would you play it occaisionally but mostly stick to Rifts?

[Svartalf]

I don't really see a point of comparison between Rifts and GURPS.

One is a math heavy, point based, ultra generic system aimed at doing a lot, but specifically good for nothing, and not made with any special setting in mind.

the other is a relatively simpler D&D influenced system that was specifically tweaked to go with the official campaign setting.

Nobody mentioned the system when they explained why they played Rifts.
At least, nobody mentioned it in a nice way...

So it doesn't seem to me that the system is the biggest draw to the game... or even a very significant draw.

The point of comparing the two games is because I'm trying to find out:
a) What Rifts has that attracts people
b) What GURPS has (or lacks) that drives people away.

I already know my own reasons for prefering Rifts, I just want to know other people's reasons.
Apparently, your reasons are that you don't like math intensive systems that are overall solid but which have nothing specifically great about them...?

The thing is that when you call for a general comparison between GURPS and Rifts, since GURPS has no specific world it is tied to, nor does it include a GURPS : Rifts ... you can't compare settings, so to me it's natural to think in terms of system.

Also, the Rifts system mayn't be the biggest draw, but I swear it's about the only way I can conceive of doing things... trying to convert Rifts to any other gaming system (and I know people who've set on just that) would be a huge, difficult, horribly complicated job, and ultimately yield disappointing results as no system I can think of can appropriately render the data and ways of Rifts.

[Nekira Sudacne]

I was looking over the "Why Do You Play Rifts?" topic and started sorting out the reasons.
It seems to break down like this (so far):
1 person said they do it for the power.
1 person said they like the struggle between good and evil
6 people said that they liked the setting
16 people said that they liked the "Endless Possibilites" of the game; that you could be a ninja, a robot, a dragon, a mage, a psychic, etc.

What about GURPS?
GURPS has as much variety as Rifts, probably even more. Not only do they have their generic worlds like GURPS: SUPERS, they also have specific worlds like GURPS: Wild Cards that work within that context. They have incorperated a number of other games of a such a wide variety that you could be pretty much anything from a Watership Down style rabbit to a Mecha pilot.
If your GM is creative, you could probably do both...

I assume that most of the people here prefer Rifts over GURPS. I know I do.
I am curious as to the reason(s) why, though.
So which do you prefer, and why?

yes, it's simple math with the ability to make lots of stuff.

but it's all MEANINGLESS.

there isn't any backstory to it all. sure, you can make whatever you want whereever you want it. but I want to know how this all came out.

if I want a general RPG I can whip up stuff and make it without the cost. seriously, me and my friends have litterally just sat down with our dice, declared our characters and played without any books at all, just some dice.

if I'm gonna buy something, I want to know WHY this stuff is like it is, not just that its' there.

[Hystrix]

I play Rifts. I love the setting, and the fact that you can do sooo much with it.

I also was intriged by GURPS. Personally, I liked the balence in it. True and Ogre with a hang nail shouldn't have extra strength, but lets face it, GURPS dosn't really work that way. Sure they have some strange things that give you extra points, but most of the disadvatages are geared toward roleplaying not roll playing.

One thing I find missing from Rifts is that most characters have few disadvatages (with the exception of insanity, but then it's a little old if EVERY Rifts PC is insane). The fact is in RL everyone has disadvatages. However, there are those who overcome thier disadvatages (in game terms: the PCs), and have strengths in other areas. A good example is someone who is blind has a greater sence of hearing, or smell. A person who is wheel-chair bound, may be very good at working with his hands. True this is not the case with everyone, but with above average to heroic people (i.e. the PCs) this is the case.

That having been said, Rifts is a more colorful and will thought out setting. GURPS is a bunch of so-so to average settings. Rifts is a very fleshed out system. GURPS is thin and skeletal.

Both systems have good and bad points, but the fact is that Rifts is the easiest to dive into...

[Hystrix]

While the GURPS main books themselves are skeletal, that's because they are supposed to be.

The GURPS: Transhuman Space setting I think blows most others completely out of the water for incorporating technical realism, sci-fi, and excellent writing. TS alone is enough to make me want to play using GURPS rules.

While Rifts is fun, Transhuman Space is something that I can really sink my teeth into.

I'll agree there are a few GURPS settings (Like Transhuman Space) that are really good. But again most of there books are informative, and complete, but a little dry...

[Vrykolas2k]

I played GURPS once... it cost so many points to make a wolfen I was barely able to buy Kenjutsu and some other skills and stuff... so, I just play Rifts...

[Vrykolas2k]

I play Rifts. I love the setting, and the fact that you can do sooo much with it.

I also was intriged by GURPS. Personally, I liked the balence in it. True and Ogre with a hang nail shouldn't have extra strength, but lets face it, GURPS dosn't really work that way. Sure they have some strange things that give you extra points, but most of the disadvatages are geared toward roleplaying not roll playing.

One thing I find missing from Rifts is that most characters have few disadvatages (with the exception of insanity, but then it's a little old if EVERY Rifts PC is insane). The fact is in RL everyone has disadvatages. However, there are those who overcome thier disadvatages (in game terms: the PCs), and have strengths in other areas. A good example is someone who is blind has a greater sence of hearing, or smell. A person who is wheel-chair bound, may be very good at working with his hands. True this is not the case with everyone, but with above average to heroic people (i.e. the PCs) this is the case.

That having been said, Rifts is a more colorful and will thought out setting. GURPS is a bunch of so-so to average settings. Rifts is a very fleshed out system. GURPS is thin and skeletal.

Both systems have good and bad points, but the fact is that Rifts is the easiest to dive into...

Hey, all Rifts characters have the weakness of autism according to certain schools of thought {since some people don't let them pick up types of skills after initial generation}.

[grandmaster z0b]

I've already made my own point based system, I found that by using the same roll for all skills and abilities and keeping them generic, and with a bit of cutting and pasting from other games, it's not that hard.
Creating an entire world of conflicting empires with internal and external politics, interesting personalities maps etc... that's hard.
It's also why I wish PB would publish more maps of specific regions, like the map from firetown. These are the resources that GMs especially need, that and complete adventures.
All the GMs here must make a truckload of material for their adventures (I know I do) so why is it so hard for PB to publish some of them? I think all the GMs here should start posting their adventures onto the boards to make all our lives easier.

[Hystrix]

I also have to agree about the high production value of GURPS products. I bought the GURPS 4th Ed. Special Edition and it is worth every penny.

OK, I'll bite. What's the big difference between 3rd Edition and 4th?

[Borast]

RIFTS: It's (once the characters are made) easy to play, and works well as long as you avoid heavy combat situations.

GURPS: It's (once the characters are made) easy to play, and works well as long as you don't involve large set-piece battles.

RIFTS: It includes/uses almost all the dice I have (including my Zocchinedron)!

GURPS: It uses D6's exclusively, making dice prep dead easy!

RIFTS: The heart of the "core" campaigns are well thought-out...details (like the super volcano under yellowstone) aren't, and the bad writing shows it (Sorry to Kevin, but a little geo-sciences and meteorology would have made it more plausable).

GURPS: The "SJG" campaigns are deliberately vague, allowing you to do what you want, go where you want, and destroy the world if you want without impacting anything else. The "Licensee" campaigns give you all the precise detail about general setting and characters you could ever dream of (ie: Horseclans), but leaves everything else up to you (the GM).

RIFTS: Has the ability to take you almost anywhere without too much modding.

GURPS: Has a "core" campaign for almost any kind of campaign you can think of, and is also flexible enough to create your own out of whole-cloth, and requires very little modding to go from one setting to the next.

RIFTS: I have a stack 3/4 of a metre tall of books, and a second 1/3 that of notes/characters/etc.

GURPS: I have a stack 1/2 of a metre tall of books, and a second 1/2 that of notes/characters/etc.

RIFTS: Great for pure story telling (mainly 'cause some of the mechanics sometimes aren't worth the cost of the ink on the page).

GURPS: Great for "realism," even when running a fantasy, sci-fi, or even space opera game!

In short...I like 'em both!

However, given that I don't know anyone (anymore) interested in playing GURPS (let alone CAR WARS!), but lots willing to play Palladium games...

[Hystrix]

The biggest difference I've noticed thus far is that the organization is just flat out better. It's been redesigned to be much easier to use and follow. Not to mention that the books themselves are absolutely gorgeous. And, because I bought the Special Edition, mine was hand-signed by Steve Jackson, David Pulver, etc.

Cool. Now I wanna buy a copy!

[Borast]

Borast, the GURPS section at my FLGS is much larger and much more diverse than the Palladium section. A good portion of the Palladium rack is taken up by multiple copies of the Rifter and whatever the newest book that's been released/rereleased is (except I didn't see China 2 the last time I went there)... but not much else. I guess it all depends on where you live.

You own multiple copies of the books?!

Seriously...I am talking personal property, not store shelf space!

[Rex]

I'm a veteran of both gaming systems, and I prefer Rifts because it is easier to break new gamers in. That is always important to remember, because there is almost always a new gamer in each group. To be honest, I can only think of one group that was comprised of true gamers. I don't think I am alone in hoping we will again read of their exploits sometime in the future. BTW 'Lanx, qtf on the FLGS IMI (wanna be cryptic, bring it...) I've been to every gaming store from Baltimore to Blacksburg, please remember. Where do you shop?

Rifts has a warm, homey feeling that GURPS lacks. The characters you create in GURPS are very real, but I have yet to meet the GM that can keep up a balance with the rules and the story. "The laser beam hit you in the eye, but since I rolled a 1 it only vaporized your eye and dissipated. It didn't hit your brain." Huh? Do I need that much detail in my rules? Am I that incapable of interpreting die rolls on my own? To be fair, if I have absolutely, positively no clue how to handle a given situation, I'll crack open GURPS. How would a 17th century pirate view a 22nd century hermaphroditic cyborg? With enough patience and GURPS books, you could conceivably figure that out.

It has been said that GURPS is more bare bones than Rifts. Which is true. But the way I see it is this. Go to a restaurant and order a full rack of ribs. Envision the way it comes to your table, red meat dripping with sauce, a side of cole slaw on a plate of lettuce. That, for me, is Rifts. Devour those ribs, leave the bones on the empty plate. Thats GURPS. Because Rifts is what is there. Cooked to order, presented maybe not perfectly, but definitately palatible. GURPS is just what might be, but is ultimately unsatisfying.

[PigLickJF]

...and devo just killed this thread.

?
What did I do?

You brought up the "c" word. (ie, conversions, which is a no-no on these boards).

PigLick

[PigLickJF]

But I didn't actiually convert anything.
Besides aren't you allowed to conversion for yourself?

Sure, you can convert all you like, but Palladium won't allow you to post it on the internet, or even discuss it, really. Just saying you've done a conversion is fine, but that's about as far as you can go. I think your original comments was fine, but I'm guessing that the latter posts involving point costs are starting to skirt the line, but I'm no mod nor am I an expert on their IP rules, so I'm just guessing.

PigLick

[PigLickJF]

That policy has always confused me. Even if someone converted it to gurps or d20 or besm or whatever they would still have to buy the rifts books to get all the world information and information on what a juicer or cyberknight was.
So even if every other person isn't using the system they would still be using the books.[/rant]

Well, that's true, and many fans agree. However, they stand by their strict and rigid defense of their IP (intellectual property) rights, and say they have good legal basis for doing so. Many people feel they're overly rigid and paranoid and point out that many other companies are much more lenient and don't seem to have suffered any ill consequences from it. In the end though it's their decision to make and if they're comfortable with the way they're doing it, and feel that it's more beneficial than harmful, then those are the rules we have to abide by.

PigLick

[Rex]

Rex, as of late, the Game Parlor in Chantilly has been sorely lacking on Palladium material, IMHO.

There is a pretty good one in Woodbridge, it's a bit of a drive for you I know. They always have plenty of PB, not just Rifts either.