Alpha armament: 260mm Diamondback Medium Range Missiles

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

Ok...

recently Jung at MacrossWorld posted his pics of a VF/A-6Z Alpha model that he had completed that shows the Alpha with the centerline mounted 8-shot 190mm Hammerhead launcher as well as the x2 260mm Diamondback Medium Range Missile 3-shot Multi-Ejector Rack. Of interest is the Diamondback MER because not only is it conformal mounted beneath the two main intakes...it appears (at least on the model) that these armaments don't need to be ejected before transformation is completed.

If this is true, then it has serious implications for the viability of the Alpha as it gives it the possibility of engaging in Beyond Visual Range combat.

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=11366&st=0

Of course, I would imagine the additional armaments would slow the Alpha down. Ah well...can't have everything![/url]

[Colonel Wolfe]

In an Atmosphere, it would add some Drag, but the Extra 8 Racks arent in a bad spot, look ver comformal. in Space the Extra Mass would lower the over all Fuel life.

How Many more Missiles is that Rabid?

[Colonel Wolfe]

Alex, are you Talking about Game Balance? or Balance of the Alpha (say in flight).

I know the RPG is wrong about some thing. but Giving the Alpah any aditional weapons it can si a Good thing. Invid number in the Millions... better to hook the pilots up. plus, if they waste missiles.. they r screwed any ways...

[Ice Dragon]

Nice model - it makes sense.

[Cyclone]

This isn't new info. Even the Robotech Tech Files mentioned these missiles for years.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

This isn't new info. Even the Robotech Tech Files mentioned these missiles for years.

Very true...excepting that they stated that the medium range-MER has to be expended before Battloid mode can be utilized...which the pics provided by Jung call into question. If its possible for the Alpha to utilize these without restricting its ability to transform, at all, then it adds one more notch in the Alpha's favor against the Valkyrie as to which is 'superior'. The addition of Beyond Visual Range armament would certainly make the VF/A-6 a better contender in fighter vs. fighter combat.

Both balance issues, really - but more regarding the game rules.

I don't agree. There are far more contentious balance issues in Robotech than the addition of logical armament outloads for the Alpha. The MDC values of well over half the mecha in Robotech have to be rethought. The damage capabilies of a number of weapons also needs to be rethought, though this is mostly a factor in campaigns using the mecha from Mospeada (the 60mm EP-37 does as much damage as the 32mm EPR-11 carried by the Spartas?)

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

How Many more Missiles is that Rabid?

If we add the Hammerheads....68 190mm short-range missiles total

If we add the Diamondbacks....6 260mm medium range missiles

If we add both, the totals look like this...

x6 260mm medium range missiles
x68 190mm short range missiles
x8 78mm point-blank range missiles

plus the x2 light lasers in the nose and x1 tri-barreled 80mm beam cannon

I would say that the Alpha would certainly pack quite a whalop by itself...

[Cyclone]

They could be used in Battloid, but I wonder how much paint would be left on the wings after you did so

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

It's very much a game balance issue at that point - and an important one. Palladium dummied down many of the worthwhile enemies that a player might face, in a time where "Hack'n'Slash" was considered the norm amongst players - maybe the Gosu is considerab a respectable foe, but only to a certain degree - and only cause its on par with the Alpha (Even though we see Corg blowing Alpha's outa the sky without taking a scratch).

While I agree that it makes the Alpha that much more likely to dish out damage...its no worse than people allowing the Valkyrie the use of any long range missiles or FAST Pack in an atmosphere.

If we update the Invid mecha to be more on par with the Alpha, in turn we have to update the Bioroids AND the Southern Cross mecha (something that has to be done anyway) just to show them as being at least contemporary with the REF. Basically, you're going to have to sit down and rewrite large portions of the RPG...cause the missile damages for the SC and REF missiles should probably be greater than those of the Macross-era.

I think the Missile list needs an updating in and of itself - cause technically the missiles of the Alpha's and Beta's are heatseekers - like a reflex missile, only fully valuable when pointed at the greatest source of heat on a mecha. And so forth.

Unlikely that the Hammerhead is simply a heat-seeker because it is used against ground targets I believe (in Eulogy to be exact). The technical sophistication in Robotech would allow for more than just one type of seeker. Otherwise, it would be no 'smarter' than a modern AIM-9 Sidewinder.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Keepin the Macross Table the Same as printed may be good. Up Grading the UEF Missiles to Closer to the CWC Missile Chart would be something more Acceptable. With Heavier Missiles being Ship busters doin Several Thousand Damage.

The Old Anti-Kevs Did something Simmiler with the Macross Setting... the Valks had Around 100MDC, and the Damage for most weapons was Doubled. One Shot one Kills is Possible.

As For Corg, Corg Was Killin Mindless "Red Shirts" He Can tear through 100 Alphaa.... but When a Script Character Comes up, its not So easy to Raze them, but in the End he gets Pwnd by the Beta.

[Lt. Holmes]

The thing is, most of the RPG stats were made not only with hack-n-slash in mind, but game balance as well.

I mean, who wants to spend the rather ungodly amount of time it takes to roll up a Palladium character, only to have him/her/it die on the first dice roll of combat? If I want that, I'll go play CP2020 or Recon. Robotech is about kick-ass action scenes that leave the audience and players short of breath and high on adrenaline. It's about heros and villians who make the seemingly impossible a common sight on the battlefield and who fight for their causes, balls to the wall.

I'm as up for modernizing the game stats as anyone else, just not to the point where we lose game balance and the essense of Robotech. One shot, one kill? Not in this game, please. Absurdly large stat numbers, a la Rifts? Again, not in this game; it doesn't fit the Robotechness that we all desire. Finding a balance between the two will be the hardest part of any conversion project, but I'm all for it. Anyone else interested?

[Colonel Wolfe]

The thing is, most of the RPG stats were made not only with hack-n-slash in mind, but game balance as well.

I mean, who wants to spend the rather ungodly amount of time it takes to roll up a Palladium character, only to have him/her/it die on the first dice roll of combat? If I want that, I'll go play CP2020 or Recon. Robotech is about kick-ass action scenes that leave the audience and players short of breath and high on adrenaline. It's about heros and villians who make the seemingly impossible a common sight on the battlefield and who fight for their causes, balls to the wall.

I'm as up for modernizing the game stats as anyone else, just not to the point where we lose game balance and the essense of Robotech. One shot, one kill? Not in this game, please. Absurdly large stat numbers, a la Rifts? Again, not in this game; it doesn't fit the Robotechness that we all desire. Finding a balance between the two will be the hardest part of any conversion project, but I'm all for it. Anyone else interested?

I Aregee about One-Shot one Kills, But Its somethig People should have a Fear of. in book1, one of the Zent Weapons Deals 8D8, on a roll of Maxx damage and a Crit.. that 128 Damage... surely not a one shot kill, but more than enought to put some Fear in a Player.... (Chances of that Happeing... 1 in 335544320, all 8 on d8's and a nat 20 on the d20... )
but even the Origonal book has its ways to one shot one kill: the Anti-Mecha Turrents that cover the out side of Zent Ships... that do 1D4x100.

The Whole Thing of Balance is more then Dmg v. armor,
to Balance thing, You Could up the Damage of Enemy Wepons, the make it more Dangerous for the Player, but Lower the MDC values of there Mecha (more than they are) Battle pod has a Wepon that Deals 1D6x10... btu has 25 main body mdc (Cardbord Laminent)
Sure the AntiMecha turrents can kill most mecha in one hit, but are Notirously Easy to Dodge. (as per a -8 to Hit)
And Even Though Wepons copuld Exist that Deal 1000's or Damage... Are the Players gonna get one? maybe not, and Defiantly not First Mission. Use Those Kinda Wepons as Plot Devises... (I felt Quite USeleass one Game when we prefored aBomming Run on a Small Zent Ship.. and Did a bit over 1000 Damage to it... then the GM Explained how Maxx and Rick Blew it up no problem... Made us feel like Real heros when they got Medels for it... and we got Dish duty)

I completly Agree With you Lt. Holmes about the "ungodly amount of time it takes to roll up a Palladium character". No way I'd Like to spend a half hour doin a basic char.. to last all of 35 second in a combat... (Has Happened in D&D before, nothings more boring than watching other peoepl role play)

[Colonel Wolfe]

One of the things that the "we must make all things fragile as they are in the series" types forget is that it's the nameless peons that one-hit die. Whereas, the heroes could take a pounding. In an RPG, you're effectively creating a new chapter of the story AND THE PCS ARE THE HEROES.

Things Should be Fragile, but uping the damage of Some of the Weapons isnt a bad Idea. the PC's Are heros, and yes lots of Red shirts Die, but the Logic people use for sayng the SC Mecha are Weaker then the Rest b/c they get blown up more than anyother Mecha in the serise... (well, on Screne more Valkeries are blown up than anyother MEcha in the Serise, the Logan the "weakest" mecha Systmaticaly has the Fewiest with 3 on screen deaths, or Even Named Chracter deaths goes to the VF-1, ben and roy)