Disappointed in Chaos Earth?

[Jason Richards]

Responding to this quote from another thread:

I agree with Specter. I don't think there was ever a game put out by Palladium that disappointed me more than Chaos Earth.

I've heard this from a few people. For me, I think that Chaos Earth is dark, gritty, and a great setting. After a delay due to weather, I'm starting my CE campaign on Saturday. Many obviously disagree.

Taking Chaos Earth with its supplements (I know there was disappointment at the lack of baddies/magic/psychics in the main book), what is it that you don't like? Would combining the small sourcebooks with the extra goodness with the main book into a single volume solve all of the problems? Or is there other stuff to?

And, mods... I know this is a Chaos Earth topic of sorts, but I think it would be better served with responses from Palladium fans who DIDN'T purchase it (and would therefore not be trawling the CE forum, but may be here in ATP). Besides, it comes as a direct offshoot of a topic in this forum that fans might like to contribute to. Thanks.

[Dustin Fireblade]

Yep CE I think is very good. As Jason pointed out has all those good elements. A hi-tech version of Systems Failure IMHO, another good setting from Palladium.

Could it have been better? Yeah a bit more. At the least I would have liked to have seen a "chaos creature creator" thingy like the Rifts MB has.

[glitterboy2098]

the only problem i've seen with chaos earth so far has been....

1) no support of the actual military yet. (NEMA's great, but what about the Army, navy, airforce, marines, special forces, ect?)

2) unrealistic physics in the cataclysm itself. (this is more of a nitpick really. the tidal waves are too high, go way too far inland, and appear to originate from nothing, as no faultlines could produce them, the volcano's are portrayed as way too powerful [yellowstone is a sheild volcano type, and it's unlikly that it would "blow its top" in an explosion powerful enough to take out NORAD, which is on the other side of the state.], the ashfall figures while fairly accurate, are listed as being from the wrong area's, the fact that the ashfall and volcanic clouds are implied as being there for months; which would cause the extinction of most of the surviving large lifeforms due to ecosystem collapse [blocked sunlight over 3-4 days kills off the phytoplankton in the sea's, and most of the land based plants. the resulting lack of food will cause only the scavengers to do well as most other animals will not be able to get enough food]) of course, from a non-scientific veiwpoint, it sounds cool, and i figure thats what they wanted.

3) some of the art work i've seen in the creatures of chaos just looked weird. most is good, but some have you thinking "what the heck were they thinking"

[Jason Richards]

Apparently not.

Indeed.

[NMI]

the original link that was made is still in the forum that your created this post in. Therefore people who end up going there will see it, and be directed here.

[Jason Richards]

the original link that was made is still in the forum that your created this post in. Therefore people who end up going there will see it, and be directed here.

I appreciate that. Thanks.

[maasenstodt]

I think the fact that it will be the first Palladium title to require 4 books to be completely playable (Main Book, Creatures, Magic, Psychics) is a significant turnoff.

[Dr. Doom III]

I think the fact that it will be the first Palladium title to require 4 books to be completely playable (Main Book, Creatures, Magic, Psychics) is a significant turnoff.

Word!

[maasenstodt]

Meh!

I have the first few parts that were serialized in the Rifter
and I think it's a great setting.

Any GM worth his salt would be able to run campaigns
simply from what was in the Rifters.

I can't disagree with you. But we're not talking about the serialized version. Like many others, I simply don't subscribe to the Rifter. I only own 6 or 7 of them, most of those being early ones, and thus I couldn't play Chaos Earth that way if I wanted to, short of shelling out even more cash.

I also don't disagree that the setting has a lot of potential. Rather, it is the poor execution that leaves me disappointed.

[Josh Sinsapaugh]

For me, I think that Chaos Earth is dark, gritty, and a great setting.

Absolutely agree on all points.

[Borast]

Since I only have the MB (so far), my only real complaint is Kevin's utter stupidity in the subject of geology. He's a very smart man from what I've read, but in certain areas he's dumber than a stump... (just like the rest of us! )

Even if Yellowstone blew the way he described it, the jet stream flows west to east, and right atop that part of the US in December. It should have taken WEEKS for any ashfall to reach the US west coast as it circumnavigated the globe!

Other than that, it's well written and seems to work.

The only other small problem I have is the font and style change as they went from the "Story" to the "Mechanics" sections. Made it hard to read through.

[Josh Sinsapaugh]

Since I only have the MB (so far), my only real complaint is Kevin's utter stupidity in the subject of geology. He's a very smart man from what I've read, but in certain areas he's dumber than a stump... (just like the rest of us! )

Even if Yellowstone blew the way he described it, the jet stream flows west to east, and right atop that part of the US in December. It should have taken WEEKS for any ashfall to reach the US west coast as it circumnavigated the globe!

Other than that, it's well written and seems to work.

The only other small problem I have is the font and style change as they went from the "Story" to the "Mechanics" sections. Made it hard to read through.

I think the answer to that inconsistency would be twofold
1) The eruption was of cataclysmic proportions itself.
2) The jet streams were probably thrown out of whack by all of the ley line activity as the world was in the process of being unmade.

[Jason Richards]

I think the answer to that inconsistency would be twofold
1) The eruption was of cataclysmic proportions itself.
2) The jet streams were probably thrown out of whack by all of the ley line activity as the world was in the process of being unmade.

I think arguing such things is a bit silly, myself. I understand it, but the main thing is that "everything is covered in ash" or "tidal waves destroyed Ney York". The devil is in the details, I realized, but I doubt such things keep people from playing the game.

[Dr. Doom III]

I think arguing such things is a bit silly, myself. I understand it, but the main thing is that "everything is covered in ash" or "tidal waves destroyed Ney York". The devil is in the details, I realized, but I doubt such things keep people from playing the game.

I think the Volcano bit was pretty consistent with the episode of Nova that I saw (and I have a suspicion KS saw too ).

[Josh Sinsapaugh]

I think the answer to that inconsistency would be twofold
1) The eruption was of cataclysmic proportions itself.
2) The jet streams were probably thrown out of whack by all of the ley line activity as the world was in the process of being unmade.

I think arguing such things is a bit silly, myself. I understand it, but the main thing is that "everything is covered in ash" or "tidal waves destroyed Ney York". The devil is in the details, I realized, but I doubt such things keep people from playing the game.

I am in no way trying to argue. Simply suggesting a reason. ((I can easily see how it could lead to an argument, though))

[Tinker Dragoon]

Responding to this quote from another thread:

I agree with Specter. I don't think there was ever a game put out by Palladium that disappointed me more than Chaos Earth.

I've heard this from a few people. For me, I think that Chaos Earth is dark, gritty, and a great setting. After a delay due to weather, I'm starting my CE campaign on Saturday. Many obviously disagree.

Well I agree with you on the setting. I love the game's concept and setting, and some of the new rules, but overall I was disappointed with the execution. My main beef with it was simply that it wasn't what it claimed to be, i.e. a "Complete Role-Playing Game."

As an avid Palladium gamer, I can fill in the holes in the system with few problems and have fun with the game, but if I had never played an RPG before and the Chaos Earth main book (and none of the supplements) was the only RPG I ever purchased, I'd be completely lost on how to run it or play it.

[Borast]

I think the answer to that inconsistency would be twofold
1) The eruption was of cataclysmic proportions itself.
2) The jet streams were probably thrown out of whack by all of the ley line activity as the world was in the process of being unmade.

1) Agreed...

2) considering the sheer mass and energy volume of air we're talking about...that paired with the fact that you'd have to disrupt the planet's rotation to have that kind of effect (since the atmospherinc engine is mostly powered by the spinning of the Earth in it's thin layer of slower spinning air)...unlikely in teh extreme.

[RockJock]

I love the idea behind Chaos Earth, but I also find the original idea for the line more attractive. That being said, I am fairly pleased with what is out there now. I would like more development of the military, particularly in the US and Canada, but for the most part I can create my own based on the New Navy, Republic of Japan, and a few other Pri-Rift hold outs.

As far as Yellow Stone, the area is a giant caldera, not really a shield volcano. There are shields in the areas, but most of the park, and surrounding land is fed by a enormous hotspot. Add to that the fact that two fairly major faults intersect creating a fracture zone that lets the hotspot reach the surface and it could easily blow. The fact that all the lava, tuft, and ash flows are relatively recent means there is a chance for a huge, single, release event. Plus it is supernatural in origin:) Look up the 1815 Mount Tambora eruption that caused a very shot summer in most of europe.

As far as the tidal waves on the east coast they are pretty hard to predict. Without ever having a piece of continental crust the size of India dropped into the middile of the trench system it is pretty hard to grasp at numbers.

[Shawn Merrow]

For anyone who has the Discovery channel they are showing a documentry on Supervolcanoes tonight at 9:00pm and 12:00am.

[Josh Sinsapaugh]

The "only" problem I have with Chaos Earth is the fact there aren't enough books for it.

I'll drink to that.

[Vidynn]

well, Im one of the many people on this board who havent bought Chaos Earth. I just stumbled into this sub-forum to see what the posts are about and wether the first enthusiasm etc has settled down.

I dont like RIFTS and I dont like Chaos Earth therefore. I have absolutely no intention to buy the book(s). from what I read in the RIFTER and online I just dont like the setting and I dont like the MDC-game-mechanics.

okay, so thats just an outside opinion from someone who's favorite Palladium systems are Fantasy, Nightbane and BtS...

have fun guys!

[Mech-Viper Prime]

rifts choas earth is a nice setting just tooo many holes to drive a death star thru right now , but since there only 3 books out, i'll wait until some are out before i start passing jugdement on it

[maasenstodt]

rifts choas earth is a nice setting just tooo many holes to drive a death star thru right now , but since there only 3 books out, i'll wait until some are out before i start passing jugdement on it

Given the slow progress in getting even 64 page sourcebooks out, you might have lost interest before you feel able to pass judgement...

[Mech-Viper Prime]

no i got a adventure that flips back and forth from chaos earth to normal rifts and back

[Sentinel]

I bought Chaos Earth, and I'll use it to supplement my ongoing campaign. I expected, or at least hoped for better. As it is now, it seems more like 'Rifts Lite'. A bit too pricey for a history lesson on the apocalypse.
Some good stuff for my HU campaign though.

[Tinker Dragoon]

I'll buy the first round. The lack of psychics bothers me as does the fact that they do not mention juicers or crazies. But since it is meant to be played with the Rifts main book that can be forgiven.

It seems rather strange that you think Chaos Earth was meant as a Rifts supplement when the cover proudly proclaims the book to be a complete standalone RPG, and lists the Rifts line merely as optional sourcebooks. A Rifts supplement is what it turned out to be, but that was clearly not what it was meant to be.

[Dr. Doom III]

It seems rather strange that you think Chaos Earth was meant as a Rifts supplement when the cover proudly proclaims the book to be a complete standalone RPG, and lists the Rifts line merely as optional sourcebooks. A Rifts supplement is what it turned out to be, but that was clearly not what it was meant to be.

Not what it was meant to be but that's how it turned out.

[Jason Richards]

And why the heck am I still a peasant!!! Its not like I like to farm...I don't...I'm not good at it...It could be worse, I could be a surf...Man, I'm only an optional occ.... Now I know how that Bill on the steps of capital hill feels.

Maybe your title should be "Post Necromancer"...

Seriously, this post keeps getting resurrected, which is fine.

The book does leave some need for the use of the RMB or other books. but remember the setting is JUST AFTER the fall. Only having NEMA seems pretty appropriate.

The mission books will be more than adventures, and the first is scheduled to have Golden Age Juicers.

[Tinker Dragoon]

A Rifts supplement is what it turned out to be, but that was clearly not what it was meant to be.

Not what it was meant to be but that's how it turned out.

Let's not get in to a circular argument here

[maasenstodt]

The book does leave some need for the use of the RMB or other books...

That's an understatement. The game is unplayable on its own. The first sourcebook didn't fix that, nor even did the second. Cybernetics and bionics, psionics and many spells are completely undescribed as yet, and odds are that they won't be. For a complete, stand alone game, that is unacceptable.

[Jason Richards]

The book does leave some need for the use of the RMB or other books...

That's an understatement. The game is unplayable on its own. The first sourcebook didn't fix that, nor even did the second. Cybernetics and bionics, psionics and many spells are completely undescribed as yet, and odds are that they won't be. For a complete, stand alone game, that is unacceptable.

While I agree that those things should probably have been out by now, but would remind you that you don't know what goes on behind the scenes that has delayed such projects. You would be much angrier if other things had been delayed or not dealt with in favor of Chaos Earth.

And, the game is playable with Creatures of Chaos. You just can't have psychics or bionics/cybernetics. These would help to complete the setting, but they aren't necessary to run a game.

[maasenstodt]

While I agree that those things should probably have been out by now, but would remind you that you don't know what goes on behind the scenes that has delayed such projects. You would be much angrier if other things had been delayed or not dealt with in favor of Chaos Earth.

And, the game is playable with Creatures of Chaos. You just can't have psychics or bionics/cybernetics. These would help to complete the setting, but they aren't necessary to run a game.

When a game is sold as being complete, the things in question should have been included in the first place. Delays are irrelevant, especially given what could have simply been cut and pasted. Had Chaos Earth stayed within the confines of the Rifter, or had it just been sold as a supplement, fine. But what happened was that Kevin flat out, undisputably lied to the customer. For all of his talk of other companies raping consumers, that is simply unacceptable.

Now don't get me wrong. Chaos Earth has a few neat ideas, and I've enjoyed some games using the setting. Moreover, I've not stopped playing Palladium's games despite how disappointing this is. But if we decide not to hold Kevin's feet to the fire over this, the odds of this sort of situation coming up again are much increased. And the next time it does happen, Palladium has lost at least one more customer.

[Rayven]

My view is simply that, as it is advertised as a complete game, there need to be few, if any references to the other games. I mean, no newbie gamer wants to pick up a book that says "complete game" on it, only to get home and read all the stuff you need that is not even part of the game. I mean, hell, the Rise of Magic book flat out tells you to buy the Book of Magic in order to use any of the mages in the book. Not that you could play them anyhow without the RMB, since there are NO experience tables in print, anywhere, for any of the classes presented therein.

[Warmaster40k]

this game as many said is not stand alone. you need oodles of Rifts Source Books to run it. and the main book as well. second the Rise of magice books was missing a single extra page of info. the experince tables. This is unacceptable. I llove the setting but the claim of it being a stand alone game is a insult to my inteligence (sp). It should of been called a Dimension Book or Alternate Setting. And what about the people who want to play the survivors. no stuck playing Nema. like i said love the setting but the game was half #$%ed. I think its time Siembeda alowcated some editing power to some capable people as its clear that the quality of products is dropping. could it be that after 25 years Mr Siembeda is getting burned out. Lets Face it the man NEEDS a vacation away from Role Playing, and buisness.

[RockJock]

I still like the original idea of Chaos Earth being an alternate chain of events leading toward the old empires surviving instead of an intermediate for Rifts.

If only I could write I could whip up something resembling the old version.

[Jason Richards]

this game as many said is not stand alone. you need oodles of Rifts Source Books to run it. and the main book as well. second the Rise of magice books was missing a single extra page of info. the experince tables. This is unacceptable. I llove the setting but the claim of it being a stand alone game is a insult to my inteligence (sp). It should of been called a Dimension Book or Alternate Setting. And what about the people who want to play the survivors. no stuck playing Nema. like i said love the setting but the game was half #$%ed. I think its time Siembeda alowcated some editing power to some capable people as its clear that the quality of products is dropping. could it be that after 25 years Mr Siembeda is getting burned out. Lets Face it the man NEEDS a vacation away from Role Playing, and buisness.

Reported.

Take your hate-speech flaming somewhere else. Object, criticize, or whatever, but you're way over the line.

[Shades of Eternity]

Locked due to complaints.