Borg weapon usage.

[Dr. Doom III]

Two weapons two attacks dude.

Do you have Paired Firearms?

[Athos]

Paired Weapons is for ancient weapons only, not for modern weapons. Plus you are aiming at two completely separate targets, wouldn't that make both wild shots at the very best? How many eyes do you have? What about the two different recoils, how are they going to effect the shooting? I agree with your GM, I wouldn't let you do it either.

[Dead Boy]

Basically what you're trying to get away with is two attacks for every melee action. The extra arms will get you an extra attack, but that attack comes within the normal sequence and adds a little more diversity to what you can and can't do. But not that much diversity. There is only a small number of characters who can make two simultaneous attacks in a single melee attack/action, namly those with Paired Firearms (not paired weapons, but firearms) either as an OCC skill or OCC ability. Borgs, regardless of what they have in terms of gizmos, do not have this ability/skill. The closest thing out there is the Super Slinger Cyborg, and even they can NOT split their attacks between multiple targets. So, if a borg that was speciffically designed to do this sort of work can't do what you tried to get away with, what makes your borg so special that he can?

[Svartalf]

What the real question is :

Is the GM doing a Nekira style house rule (about everybody can use paired modern weapons)?

or did Illithind use his mind flayer psionics to manipulate him into house ruling in his favor?

The one is just GM's call, I don't agree, but I can live with it without needing to ask Illithid for his GM's address so I can send him hate mail..

The second is munchkinism at its finest.

[Mack]

What Deadboy said.

And Paired Weapons is not the same as Paired Firearms.

[Mack]

When your Borg stops to think "Fire my grenade launcher over yonder" he burns an action. The weapon doesn't have an automated / self-firing mode, such as one of the Juicer Killer PA's in Juicer Uprising.

[Nekira Sudacne]

What Deadboy said.

And Paired Weapons is not the same as Paired Firearms.

*vagabond Nekira roosters paried guns to get ready to do battle on this subject again*

yes, they are the same.

[Dr. Doom III]

What Deadboy said.

And Paired Weapons is not the same as Paired Firearms.

*vagabond Nekira roosters paried guns to get ready to do battle on this subject again*

yes, they are the same.

Too bad you can only fire one of them per attack.

No they are not.

[Nekira Sudacne]

What Deadboy said.

And Paired Weapons is not the same as Paired Firearms.

*vagabond Nekira roosters paried guns to get ready to do battle on this subject again*

yes, they are the same.

Too bad you can only fire one of them per attack.

No they are not.

it says quite plainly that it can be used with any one handed weapon. never says they have to be ancient.

[Dr. Doom III]

it says quite plainly that it can be used with any one handed weapon. never says they have to be ancient.

Do a search and find the last time I totally destroyed your argument.
Doom does not wish to type it again.

[Nekira Sudacne]

it says quite plainly that it can be used with any one handed weapon. never says they have to be ancient.

Do a search and find the last time I totally destroyed your argument.
Doom does not wish to type it again.

you never destroyed my argument. I countered your points.

[Dr. Doom III]

you never destroyed my argument. I countered your points.

Ineffectively.

[Nekira Sudacne]

you never destroyed my argument. I countered your points.

Ineffectively.

all that I needed to do sinse your counter points were inneffective.

[Dr. Doom III]

all that I needed to do sinse your counter points were inneffective.

Even a Mike Tyson punch would prove ineffective against a brick wall.
You're the wall by the way.

[Nekira Sudacne]

all that I needed to do sinse your counter points were inneffective.

Even a Mike Tyson punch would prove ineffective against a brick wall.
You're the wall by the way.

we're both walls Doom.

[Dr. Doom III]

we're both walls Doom.

No.
Doom is the irresistible force.

You are the immovable object.



Oh I did the search for you.

For some reason the term is listed in the Hand To Hand Combat section.

Paired Weapons: Certain kinds of weapons such as Sais, Nunchaku, knives, clubs and swords...(Where are the guns?)...can parry two different opponents at the same time...(Parry with a gun?)...

[Nekira Sudacne]

we're both walls Doom.

No.
Doom is the irresistible force.

You are the immovable object.

[=/quote]

we're gonna switch places one day you know.

[

quote]For some reason the term is listed in the Hand To Hand Combat section.

Paired Weapons: Certain kinds of weapons such as Sais, Nunchaku, knives, clubs and swords...(Where are the guns?)

simply left out of the discription. can't type in every one handed weapon in the game.

...can parry two different opponents at the same time...(Parry with a gun?)...

[/quote]

sure, you can according to the rules. it's just that your gun takes damage equal to the amount you parried whereas ancinet weapons do not.

[Dr. Doom III]

Now that's what I meant by ineffective.

It's still in the Hand To Hand Combat section.
Gun.
It's three letters. Certainly less then Nunchaku.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Now that's what I meant by ineffective.

It's still in the Hand To Hand Combat section.
Gun.
It's three letters. Certainly less then Nunchaku.

but paired guns arn't quite as famous as paired nunchaku

[Dr. Doom III]

but paired guns arn't quite as famous as paired nunchaku

How about club then?
Not many fictional characters running around with two hunks of wood are there?

Don't forget it's still in the Hand To Hand Combat section.

More ineffective as we go.

[Daniel Stoker]

Now that's what I meant by ineffective.

It's still in the Hand To Hand Combat section.
Gun.
It's three letters. Certainly less then Nunchaku.

but paired guns arn't quite as famous as paired nunchaku

Obviously you haven't been watching all the 'gun-fu' movies that have been out in the past several years. I think it's MORE famous then paired nunchakus these days.



Daniel Stoker

[Nekira Sudacne]

Now that's what I meant by ineffective.

It's still in the Hand To Hand Combat section.
Gun.
It's three letters. Certainly less then Nunchaku.

but paired guns arn't quite as famous as paired nunchaku

Obviously you haven't been watching all the 'gun-fu' movies that have been out in the past several years. I think it's MORE famous then paired nunchakus these days.



Daniel Stoker

"these days"

not when Rifts was made they wern't.

[Nekira Sudacne]

but paired guns arn't quite as famous as paired nunchaku

How about club then?
Not many fictional characters running around with two hunks of wood are there?

it's for barfights. rip 2 legs off chair and have at it. I've done so in game more than once.

Don't forget it's still in the Hand To Hand Combat section.

More ineffective as we go.

[/quote]

ineffectual point as the location of said rule dose not matter.

[Dr. Doom III]

it's for barfights. rip 2 legs off chair and have at it. I've done so in game more than once.

Right.

ineffectual point as the location of said rule dose not matter.

Nowhere near.
Perhaps the definition of ineffective would help?

[Nekira Sudacne]

it's for barfights. rip 2 legs off chair and have at it. I've done so in game more than once.

Right.

ineffectual point as the location of said rule dose not matter.

Nowhere near.
Perhaps the definition of ineffective would help?

sure, I'll hear your definition.

[Dr. Doom III]

sure, I'll hear your definition.

Go to Dictionary.com.
Then look at your replies as examples.

Look up destroyed while you are at it.

[Nekira Sudacne]

From Dictionary.com:

3

entries found for ineffective.
in·ef·fec·tive ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n-fktv)
adj.
Not producing an intended effect; ineffectual: an ineffective plea.
Inadequate; incompetent: an ineffective teacher.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
inef·fective·ly adv.
inef·fective·ness n.

ineffective

\In`ef*fect"ive\, a. [Pref. in- not + effective: cf. F. ineffectif.] Not effective; ineffectual; futile; inefficient; useless; as, an ineffective appeal.

The word of God, without the spirit, [is] a dead and ineffective letter. --Jer. Taylor.


Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.


ineffective

adj 1: not producing an intended effect; "an ineffective teacher"; "ineffective legislation" [syn: uneffective, ineffectual] [ant: effective] 2: lacking in power or forcefulness; "an ineffectual ruler"; "like an unable phoenix in hot ashes" [syn: ineffectual, unable] 3: lacking the ability or skill to perform effectively; inadequate; "an ineffective administration"; "inefficient workers" [syn: inefficient]

I yeald to the might of Doom

[Dr. Doom III]

From Dictionary.com:

3

entries found for ineffective.
in·ef·fec·tive ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n-fktv)
adj.
Not producing an intended effect; ineffectual: an ineffective plea.
Inadequate; incompetent: an ineffective teacher.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
inef·fective·ly adv.
inef·fective·ness n.

ineffective

\In`ef*fect"ive\, a. [Pref. in- not + effective: cf. F. ineffectif.] Not effective; ineffectual; futile; inefficient; useless; as, an ineffective appeal.

The word of God, without the spirit, [is] a dead and ineffective letter. --Jer. Taylor.


Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.


ineffective

adj 1: not producing an intended effect; "an ineffective teacher"; "ineffective legislation" [syn: uneffective, ineffectual] [ant: effective] 2: lacking in power or forcefulness; "an ineffectual ruler"; "like an unable phoenix in hot ashes" [syn: ineffectual, unable] 3: lacking the ability or skill to perform effectively; inadequate; "an ineffective administration"; "inefficient workers" [syn: inefficient]

I yeald to the might of Doom

Man that definition is harsh.

[Nekira Sudacne]

From Dictionary.com:

3

entries found for ineffective.
in·ef·fec·tive ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n-fktv)
adj.
Not producing an intended effect; ineffectual: an ineffective plea.
Inadequate; incompetent: an ineffective teacher.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
inef·fective·ly adv.
inef·fective·ness n.

ineffective

\In`ef*fect"ive\, a. [Pref. in- not + effective: cf. F. ineffectif.] Not effective; ineffectual; futile; inefficient; useless; as, an ineffective appeal.

The word of God, without the spirit, [is] a dead and ineffective letter. --Jer. Taylor.


Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.


ineffective

adj 1: not producing an intended effect; "an ineffective teacher"; "ineffective legislation" [syn: uneffective, ineffectual] [ant: effective] 2: lacking in power or forcefulness; "an ineffectual ruler"; "like an unable phoenix in hot ashes" [syn: ineffectual, unable] 3: lacking the ability or skill to perform effectively; inadequate; "an ineffective administration"; "inefficient workers" [syn: inefficient]

I yeald to the might of Doom

Man that definition is harsh.

strange words coming from you

[Dead Boy]

Honestly, I don't see where this is a problem... Yes rule wise I'm getting 2 attacks for the price of one, but realisticaly, I'm using one of those so far off, that it has minimal effect on what I'm doing, due to the fact that as long as I'm not facing my alies, I'm GOING to hit one of these small critters.

No, I see exactly where you're coming from. You want to use reasoning and ratializatin to trump canon rules. But any way you cut it, what you tried to get away with is getting two attacks out of every one your character had available. If Borg X fires a burst or aimed shot at a foe, that's a melee attack. If Borg X fires blind in to a crowd with a grenade launcher, that's called Shooting Wild, or at the very least a Spray, and that counts as a melee attack. Lacking the right skills and/or OCC background, this can not be done. Period. Accept it and move on.

What Deadboy said.

And Paired Weapons is not the same as Paired Firearms.

*vagabond Nekira roosters paried guns to get ready to do battle on this subject again*

yes, they are the same.

No, the two are not the same. If they were then there would have been the need for the powers that be to make the Paired Firearms ability for the Gunfighter OCC or the skill equiv. for the Headhunter's in the Canada book.

And besides that, it outright said so in the old FAQ that Paied Weapons was NOT applicable to guns at all. I know, because I asked the question. So quit trying to steal special abilities from OCCs that are not your own and let them keep what makes them special.

[Mack]

Aww no.

I agree with both Doom and Dead Boy. At the same time.

I think I'll go meditate.

[Dr. Doom III]

:?:

strange words coming from you

Although that definition may look like it I did not intend to call you "ineffectual", "inadequate", or "incompetent".

[Nekira Sudacne]

:?:

strange words coming from you

Although that definition may look like it I did not intend to call you "ineffectual", "inadequate", or "incompetent".

you didn't, you only said that about my arguments.

interestingly enough, I'm not my argumetns here.

[Svartalf]

we're both walls Doom.

Too bad Doom usually has his foundations well set in stone while yours are in sand

[Svartalf]

I was worried that I started something that was going to end in a dual or something!

I'm sorry to stir up the hornets nest...

Don't fret ... when she pulls a Nekira, even doom cannot contain her nonsense

[Svartalf]

Doom, Quit Spamming people with ineffective, inarticulate Advice.

Jack... do you know the saying about better shutting up and letting people wonder if you're playing with a full deck than opening up and...?

[Dr. Doom III]

you didn't, you only said that about my arguments.

interestingly enough, I'm not my argumetns here.

Good.
I thought you might have thought I insulted you since you actually acquiesced.

[Borast]

Ok...small problem...

The "Paired Weapons" skill does not mean you can pick-up ANY weapon and use two of them. It is supposed to be used a "Paired Swords", "Paried Sword/Dagger", "Paired Axes", etc... (or, for the odd RARE R/OCC or martial art, Paired Rifles/Handguns/etc...) For each "paired" weapons skill you want (sword/sword, sword/knife, sword/axe, axe/axe, blunt/blunt, etc), you are supposed to buy a new Paired Weapons skill.

If you actually manage to convince a GM to allow you Paired Pistols/etc, you would be able to fire both simultaneously, and since you're a 'borg, for MOST weapons you'd not likely need to worry about recoil (gotta love lockable joints, even if the do cost extra cash!). However, the concentration involved in aiming the two weapons would mean you'd not be able to fire any weapon not capable of an "automatic" setting (ie: self firing until a: empties itself, or b: you turn it off).

Also, don't forget certain things about a GL...normally it is used as an indirect fire weapon, so if you're doing contact fuses in a low ceilinged corridor...

Besides, an MDC explosion in a confined space could produce major problems (ie: land slides / building collapses / etc).

[Dr. Doom III]

I see why Doom has 13,000 Posts and counting. He Posts about 30 Spammy Stupid messages A post...
mostly along the uh-uh! uh-huh! if you reduce his posts to their basic level.
and He apparently Loves nesting, and well.. thats' a sign of a spammer.

Post envy.
It's a sad thing to see.

[Shiva7]

I see why Doom has 13,000 Posts and counting. He Posts about 30 Spammy Stupid messages A post...
mostly along the uh-uh! uh-huh! if you reduce his posts to their basic level.
and He apparently Loves nesting, and well.. thats' a sign of a spammer.

SAddly Jack, your post is spam as well, and so is this one, so let it go and get back on topic.

[Dead Boy]

Post envy.
It's a sad thing to see.

Quality over quantity is the way to go, (unlike my post here )

[Vrykolas2k]

I see why Doom has 13,000 Posts and counting. He Posts about 30 Spammy Stupid messages A post...
mostly along the uh-uh! uh-huh! if you reduce his posts to their basic level.
and He apparently Loves nesting, and well.. thats' a sign of a spammer.

Post envy.
It's a sad thing to see.

[Dr. Doom III]

Um, Doom is right, Nekira. Paired Weapons is NOT the same as Paired Firearms.

Proof:

The Rifts Canada book CLEARLY states that the Headhunter Techno-Warrior can choose ANY W.P. INCLUDING W.P. Paired FIREARMS, (and sharpshooting, but that's not important for this discussion.) and the Brutal Killer variant CANNOT take it, neither can the Robot Slammer or Technohound if I remember correctly.

ALSO in the New West seires where W.P. Paired Firearms FIRST showed up, only a few classes, namely Justice Ranger, Gunfighter, Gunslinger and a few others were allowed to get it, OR started off with it for free.

That's the Canon. The Doctor is right, this time.

This time?