Variant Horizont Bunkers.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Easy, it would Take Longer for the Alpha to Land in the Ikazuchi's Hangers and get the Resupply. The Hotizon-FRs (Feild Resuply) would eb more Mobile and able to get Close to the Action. with The Alpha's Low Propelent Supply having the Bunker Designs Makes the Alpha have to go a Lesser Distance to get refuled then to Travle to a Capital Ship for the Same thing.

[glitterboy2098]

the Pod have no Airlock system build in B/C they were Designed for Equipment Carriage and Droping Troops in "Hot Zones". Troops in the Standerd version would be in CVR-3 (or CVR-4) armors.

Re-Docking Fighters to the Pods would not be a Priority, Piloted Mecha would Land back in an Ikizuchi or other Carrier Ship. The Drones would hang out Til someone Decided to Pick them up. this system would only be used when Trying to Drply as Many Fighters in to a Combat Zone as Possible (Simmiler to the Ikazuchi's Fast Launcher bay on the Sides that hold 144 Alphas for Launch).

Just had me think of an idea a wider "bunker" with the mechs laying face down with their heads pointing to the sides of the Horizont. To launch the side blows open with explosive bolts to reveal them mounted like they would be in an Ikazuchi. Heck if its in space why not have launch pods the size of an Ikazuchi's? Better would be a dual pod space (Ikazuchi size) mounted under atmosphere pods. I think the primary benifit of the Ikazuchi is that it can fold into a system then release its swarm. The Horizont doesn't have that capability I think that is why it's bunker system and itself are primarily ment for atmospheric operations. Just thought of that since in order to get up to any reasonable speed with the Ikazuchi size bays it would have to start accelerating a long way off from the battle. An Iki could just jump in from out of system and launch its fighters. The other thing that also got me thinking about that is the "it must have a pilots lounge" issue. The Horizont is used for drops. The crew is on an Iki and then load on to the Horizont in order to get delivered planet side. It wasn't designed to be waited in for hours on end. Just the time it takes to launch enter the atmosphere and land. For a reasonable mini carrier it would have to have fold capabilities.

actually i was thinking along the lines of escort carriers. they don't need fold abilities because they don't work indpendantly.

which is cheaper to manufacture, a Ikazuchi with its thousand crew, fold drive and massive power system, or enough simple launch pods to match the mecha capacity using the simpler horizont shuttle?

the pods allow for extra fighters to be brought along without requiring more massive and expensive warships to be put in harms way.

true, they are not intended for extended use, but remember folding is not instantanous, it takes hours to days to do, and even then you have to defold far enough from a gravity well to not strand you. so you looking at a few hours to a few days. even if used as a range extender, at robotech speeds it would take a few hours to get from earth to the moon at best, more likely a day or more. try doing that crammed in a tiny cockpit.

also, what would be the point of using it as a range extender? the fighters would be out of reaction mass before the carrier got close enough to recover them. suicide missions could be pulled off with normal pods.

my concept was one of making a cheap way to add extra fighters to a assault force. the pods are effectivly one shot because they don't need to be otherwise. the horizonts get close to a planet, launch there fighters, and either skedaddle back to the rendevous or land.

as for the size? in space SIZE=MASS, and Thrust and MASS effects acceleration (speed). the horizont has a fixed thrust variance. if you added Ikazuchi launch pods (which are the size of a Horizont) the mass increases and the acceleration drops. if the horizont cannot accellerate to some speeds fast enough it will be unable to maintain orbit (Contra-grav not withstanding) or leave orbit.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Just had me think of an idea a wider "bunker" with the mechs laying face down with their heads pointing to the sides of the Horizont. To launch the side blows open with explosive bolts to reveal them mounted like they would be in an Ikazuchi. Heck if its in space why not have launch pods the size of an Ikazuchi's? Better would be a dual pod space (Ikazuchi size) mounted under atmosphere pods. I think the primary benifit of the Ikazuchi is that it can fold into a system then release its swarm. The Horizont doesn't have that capability I think that is why it's bunker system and itself are primarily ment for atmospheric operations. Just thought of that since in order to get up to any reasonable speed with the Ikazuchi size bays it would have to start accelerating a long way off from the battle. An Iki could just jump in from out of system and launch its fighters. The other thing that also got me thinking about that is the "it must have a pilots lounge" issue. The Horizont is used for drops. The crew is on an Iki and then load on to the Horizont in order to get delivered planet side. It wasn't designed to be waited in for hours on end. Just the time it takes to launch enter the atmosphere and land. For a reasonable mini carrier it would have to have fold capabilities.

Well, 90% of Serise Footage has them in Space. the One Scott Escorts in gets "blowed up real good". Rand finds a Downed one, Looks like a pertty bad Atmospheric History of the Design.

"One of the most common models of the Horizon is the "T" version (Horizon-T) which features a cargo shuttle system designed to efficiently deliver logistics and personnel to a planet while minimizing the time the shuttle has to remain in the landing zone. This design requirement was achieved by placing most of the cargo in two detachable underwing cargo pods. After dropping the pods and internally carried troops in the landing zone, the Horizon-T dropship can ascend to the orbiting fleet and collect a new cargo for delivery"

Not Really for Asmospheric Use, Much Like the Space Shuttle, it can fly in the Atmosphere, but its Main job is to go to and From Space.

[Zer0 Kay]

the Pod have no Airlock system build in B/C they were Designed for Equipment Carriage and Droping Troops in "Hot Zones". Troops in the Standerd version would be in CVR-3 (or CVR-4) armors.

Re-Docking Fighters to the Pods would not be a Priority, Piloted Mecha would Land back in an Ikizuchi or other Carrier Ship. The Drones would hang out Til someone Decided to Pick them up. this system would only be used when Trying to Drply as Many Fighters in to a Combat Zone as Possible (Simmiler to the Ikazuchi's Fast Launcher bay on the Sides that hold 144 Alphas for Launch).

Just had me think of an idea a wider "bunker" with the mechs laying face down with their heads pointing to the sides of the Horizont. To launch the side blows open with explosive bolts to reveal them mounted like they would be in an Ikazuchi. Heck if its in space why not have launch pods the size of an Ikazuchi's? Better would be a dual pod space (Ikazuchi size) mounted under atmosphere pods. I think the primary benifit of the Ikazuchi is that it can fold into a system then release its swarm. The Horizont doesn't have that capability I think that is why it's bunker system and itself are primarily ment for atmospheric operations. Just thought of that since in order to get up to any reasonable speed with the Ikazuchi size bays it would have to start accelerating a long way off from the battle. An Iki could just jump in from out of system and launch its fighters. The other thing that also got me thinking about that is the "it must have a pilots lounge" issue. The Horizont is used for drops. The crew is on an Iki and then load on to the Horizont in order to get delivered planet side. It wasn't designed to be waited in for hours on end. Just the time it takes to launch enter the atmosphere and land. For a reasonable mini carrier it would have to have fold capabilities.

actually i was thinking along the lines of escort carriers. they don't need fold abilities because they don't work indpendantly.

which is cheaper to manufacture, a Ikazuchi with its thousand crew, fold drive and massive power system, or enough simple launch pods to match the mecha capacity using the simpler horizont shuttle?

the pods allow for extra fighters to be brought along without requiring more massive and expensive warships to be put in harms way.

true, they are not intended for extended use, but remember folding is not instantanous, it takes hours to days to do, and even then you have to defold far enough from a gravity well to not strand you. so you looking at a few hours to a few days. even if used as a range extender, at robotech speeds it would take a few hours to get from earth to the moon at best, more likely a day or more. try doing that crammed in a tiny cockpit.

also, what would be the point of using it as a range extender? the fighters would be out of reaction mass before the carrier got close enough to recover them. suicide missions could be pulled off with normal pods.

my concept was one of making a cheap way to add extra fighters to a assault force. the pods are effectivly one shot because they don't need to be otherwise. the horizonts get close to a planet, launch there fighters, and either skedaddle back to the rendevous or land.

as for the size? in space SIZE=MASS, and Thrust and MASS effects acceleration (speed). the horizont has a fixed thrust variance. if you added Ikazuchi launch pods (which are the size of a Horizont) the mass increases and the acceleration drops. if the horizont cannot accellerate to some speeds fast enough it will be unable to maintain orbit (Contra-grav not withstanding) or leave orbit.

Thought we were talking about in space as I said they'd have to be pretty far out to get up to speed once they neared the planet they'd launch all their fighters and ditch the bays or maybe launch the bay which would have thrusters on them which would then release the fighters.

[Zer0 Kay]

Just had me think of an idea a wider "bunker" with the mechs laying face down with their heads pointing to the sides of the Horizont. To launch the side blows open with explosive bolts to reveal them mounted like they would be in an Ikazuchi. Heck if its in space why not have launch pods the size of an Ikazuchi's? Better would be a dual pod space (Ikazuchi size) mounted under atmosphere pods. I think the primary benifit of the Ikazuchi is that it can fold into a system then release its swarm. The Horizont doesn't have that capability I think that is why it's bunker system and itself are primarily ment for atmospheric operations. Just thought of that since in order to get up to any reasonable speed with the Ikazuchi size bays it would have to start accelerating a long way off from the battle. An Iki could just jump in from out of system and launch its fighters. The other thing that also got me thinking about that is the "it must have a pilots lounge" issue. The Horizont is used for drops. The crew is on an Iki and then load on to the Horizont in order to get delivered planet side. It wasn't designed to be waited in for hours on end. Just the time it takes to launch enter the atmosphere and land. For a reasonable mini carrier it would have to have fold capabilities.

Well, 90% of Serise Footage has them in Space. the One Scott Escorts in gets "blowed up real good". Rand finds a Downed one, Looks like a pertty bad Atmospheric History of the Design.

"One of the most common models of the Horizon is the "T" version (Horizon-T) which features a cargo shuttle system designed to efficiently deliver logistics and personnel to a planet while minimizing the time the shuttle has to remain in the landing zone. This design requirement was achieved by placing most of the cargo in two detachable underwing cargo pods. After dropping the pods and internally carried troops in the landing zone, the Horizon-T dropship can ascend to the orbiting fleet and collect a new cargo for delivery"

Not Really for Asmospheric Use, Much Like the Space Shuttle, it can fly in the Atmosphere, but its Main job is to go to and From Space.

OK let me reword that when I said atmospheric operations I ment that out of the fleet it is the ship that is used by atmospheric operations to land their troops. It is a shuttle. It is a C-130, C-5, C-17 not a mini-carrier although it could probably be made into a nice C-130H or U Specter or Spookie gunship variant type. I'm sorry if I confused you.

[Lt. Holmes]

Easy, it would Take Longer for the Alpha to Land in the Ikazuchi's Hangers and get the Resupply. The Hotizon-FRs (Feild Resuply) would eb more Mobile and able to get Close to the Action. with The Alpha's Low Propelent Supply having the Bunker Designs Makes the Alpha have to go a Lesser Distance to get refuled then to Travle to a Capital Ship for the Same thing.

Exactly. The field resupply Horizont could get close enough to the action to allow for quick resupply and redeployment of fighters, instead of forcing them all the way back to the capital ships for resupply.

This would allow for a much shorter return time to getting those fighters back out into the fight where they're needed.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Even fomr a Personle stand point, puting 10 "Horizon-FRs"in near a Combat Hot zone is much better than Placing a Relativly Vunerable Ikizuchi near the Same battle for the Same job. In Fighting the Invid, the Capital Ships could get Quickly Over ran by Hundreds of Tiny Mecha, Where its Much Easier for a pair of fighters to Guard a Smaller Resupply Ship.

and if you Lose a horizon... thats only 5-10 Soilders compared to Losing a Ikizuchi.. with its 500+ crew.

[Zer0 Kay]

Even fomr a Personle stand point, puting 10 "Horizon-FRs"in near a Combat Hot zone is much better than Placing a Relativly Vunerable Ikizuchi near the Same battle for the Same job. In Fighting the Invid, the Capital Ships could get Quickly Over ran by Hundreds of Tiny Mecha, Where its Much Easier for a pair of fighters to Guard a Smaller Resupply Ship.

and if you Lose a horizon... thats only 5-10 Soilders compared to Losing a Ikizuchi.. with its 500+ crew.

It's just like modern ships You don't see twenty destroyers with a single attack helicopter going ahead of an CVN because it would be less lives if the destroyers...ok bad example. They won't make a lighter lower capacity carrier to take in 6 aircraft while the CVN stays in the rear. Though it is not a front line fighter the CVN still is harder to sink than the smaller cheaper less manned craft are.

In otherwords even though you would only loose about 20 men. It is far more likely for that to happen than for an Iki to be destroyed. In an Invid swarm attack it is also more likely for the Iki to deploy it's fighters before it is destroyed where as the Horizont Mini Carriers would be totalled destroying it and it's charges.

An Invid clam against 10 Horizont Mini Carriers are more likely to destroy all Ships than an Invid Clam against an Iki that can quickly retaliate with it's own swarm.

[Colonel Wolfe]

I'm not Talking about the Mini-Carriers, I'm talking about the Resupply Ships, one Resupply Ship and 50 Alphas is much less of a Rish then a Ikazuchi and its Alphas. The Types of Ship would be used in Tandem with the Larger Carriers. My Ideas: The Ikazuchi Launches Maned Fighters, The Horizon's Carry Drones.

[Zer0 Kay]

I'm not Talking about the Mini-Carriers, I'm talking about the Resupply Ships, one Resupply Ship and 50 Alphas is much less of a Rish then a Ikazuchi and its Alphas. The Types of Ship would be used in Tandem with the Larger Carriers. My Ideas: The Ikazuchi Launches Maned Fighters, The Horizon's Carry Drones.

Ah OK makes sense. So the Horizont mods would basically be KC-135s. Instead of landing in the bay it would probably be a bunker that unfolds to reveal robotic arms and storage containers. The alpha flies under the unfolded bunker where it is caught by a robotic arm and then reloaded. Heck why not make it a drone also.

[Colonel Wolfe]

I'm not Talking about the Mini-Carriers, I'm talking about the Resupply Ships, one Resupply Ship and 50 Alphas is much less of a Rish then a Ikazuchi and its Alphas. The Types of Ship would be used in Tandem with the Larger Carriers. My Ideas: The Ikazuchi Launches Maned Fighters, The Horizon's Carry Drones.

Ah OK makes sense. So the Horizont mods would basically be KC-135s. Instead of landing in the bay it would probably be a bunker that unfolds to reveal robotic arms and storage containers. The alpha flies under the unfolded bunker where it is caught by a robotic arm and then reloaded. Heck why not make it a drone also.

You;ve got it, the Entire system is in the Bunker is Automated. Even the horizon could be piloted by an AI.

heres a Pic of kinda how the formation would still be: http://www.magicbicycle.net/alphavt/panshots/ep1d.jpg

but if you were in a Fleet engagment you'd deply all fighters & Drones on the Line. one things about robotech, they Never Seam to Launch the Fighters Early Enough. both in the ASC era and the Invid invasion era, Launching Fighters eariler would have saved more of there Fleet.

[Jefffar]

That Horizont in the foreground is in awfully close formation with that Ike.

[Colonel Wolfe]

That Horizont in the foreground is in awfully close formation with that Ike.

Aye it looks it, but the distance is really hard to Tell. this is also one of AlphaVT's Motion pictures... he dose an Awesome job of Rendering these Pan shots from the animation. http://www.magicbicycle.net/alphavt/panshots/

its new gen stuff, but his name is AlphaVT.

[Zer0 Kay]

That Horizont in the foreground is in awfully close formation with that Ike.

Ike like president? I could understand Ika for short or Iki (Icky) as a trunkation. But Ike that is so unjapanese.

[Jefffar]

I never said I was Japanese.


But my girlfriend is.

[Zer0 Kay]

I'm not Talking about the Mini-Carriers, I'm talking about the Resupply Ships, one Resupply Ship and 50 Alphas is much less of a Rish then a Ikazuchi and its Alphas. The Types of Ship would be used in Tandem with the Larger Carriers. My Ideas: The Ikazuchi Launches Maned Fighters, The Horizon's Carry Drones.

Ah OK makes sense. So the Horizont mods would basically be KC-135s. Instead of landing in the bay it would probably be a bunker that unfolds to reveal robotic arms and storage containers. The alpha flies under the unfolded bunker where it is caught by a robotic arm and then reloaded. Heck why not make it a drone also.

You;ve got it, the Entire system is in the Bunker is Automated. Even the horizon could be piloted by an AI.

heres a Pic of kinda how the formation would still be: http://www.magicbicycle.net/alphavt/panshots/ep1d.jpg

but if you were in a Fleet engagment you'd deply all fighters & Drones on the Line. one things about robotech, they Never Seam to Launch the Fighters Early Enough. both in the ASC era and the Invid invasion era, Launching Fighters eariler would have saved more of there Fleet.

However I wasn't thinking they'd stay in bunker form since it would be so hard to land the drones or fighters into it. I thought that it would "unfold" basically so that the "floor" became another roof to the side of the actual roof. That way it could act more like a KC-134 and accept the fighter under it instead of into it. It should also be able to refit four alphas or two legios fighters at the same time. They could cary two of these to support 8 alpha/beta or 4 legios fighters or substitute the other side with a launch pod or a drone pod.

[Colonel Wolfe]

the Bottom of the Pods would open at the Middle, Fold out fomr the 2 Lower Side of the Hexagon being the 90degrees to the top of the Hexagon.
thou my hand at Paint sucks, heres what i mean.

http://scarmyofone.000k2.com/scross/bunkerfrontview.gif

even if it Expanded all the way open i could not re-arm 4 at the Time, the System is Designed to re-arm/re-fule a single Alpha/beta in less then 30 seconds, Fully Automated, the system can complete This Task 60 Times before needing a Resupply itself, (Whcih takes 15 minutes with the roght equipment, or 3 hours by hand)

[Lt. Holmes]

Don't forget about inflight refueling of reaction mass, since the Alphas don't carry a heck of a lot of that stuff to begin with.

[Zer0 Kay]

the Bottom of the Pods would open at the Middle, Fold out fomr the 2 Lower Side of the Hexagon being the 90degrees to the top of the Hexagon.
thou my hand at Paint sucks, heres what i mean.

http://scarmyofone.000k2.com/scross/bunkerfrontview.gif

even if it Expanded all the way open i could not re-arm 4 at the Time, the System is Designed to re-arm/re-fule a single Alpha/beta in less then 30 seconds, Fully Automated, the system can complete This Task 60 Times before needing a Resupply itself, (Whcih takes 15 minutes with the roght equipment, or 3 hours by hand)

Even this way if a normal pod could hold three length wise than you should be able to do 2 but I figured it would open from the point half way down essentially making two bunker roofs. However, yours makes more sense since the two side panels make for more robot arm space and would also allow the alpha some protection at least from the sides and top while it is in its defenseless state.

[Zer0 Kay]

Don't forget about inflight refueling of reaction mass, since the Alphas don't carry a heck of a lot of that stuff to begin with.

? I thought even the thrusters were powered by the protoculture cells and I thought those went for a week or some longer period than a day. Is this game or universe material? Which universe, Robotech or MOSPEDA?

[Colonel Wolfe]

the Bottom of the Pods would open at the Middle, Fold out fomr the 2 Lower Side of the Hexagon being the 90degrees to the top of the Hexagon.
thou my hand at Paint sucks, heres what i mean.

http://scarmyofone.000k2.com/scross/bunkerfrontview.gif

even if it Expanded all the way open i could not re-arm 4 at the Time, the System is Designed to re-arm/re-fule a single Alpha/beta in less then 30 seconds, Fully Automated, the system can complete This Task 60 Times before needing a Resupply itself, (Whcih takes 15 minutes with the roght equipment, or 3 hours by hand)

Even this way if a normal pod could hold three length wise than you should be able to do 2 but I figured it would open from the point half way down essentially making two bunker roofs. However, yours makes more sense since the two side panels make for more robot arm space and would also allow the alpha some protection at least from the sides and top while it is in its defenseless state.

and Olny a Portion of the Middle would open this way, Giving the Alpha-beta Protction fomr 5 of the 6 Sides.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Don't forget about inflight refueling of reaction mass, since the Alphas don't carry a heck of a lot of that stuff to begin with.

? I thought even the thrusters were powered by the protoculture cells and I thought those went for a week or some longer period than a day. Is this game or universe material? Which universe, Robotech or MOSPEDA?

By Reaction Mass he Means Liquid Propelten for Space Flight, something the RPG dosent Cover, but the URRG give all the Mecha Delta-v ability. The Alpha has a Limited amount os Propeletn, its one reason the Beta project was brough out of the Moth-ball pile.

[Zer0 Kay]

the Bottom of the Pods would open at the Middle, Fold out fomr the 2 Lower Side of the Hexagon being the 90degrees to the top of the Hexagon.
thou my hand at Paint sucks, heres what i mean.

http://scarmyofone.000k2.com/scross/bunkerfrontview.gif

even if it Expanded all the way open i could not re-arm 4 at the Time, the System is Designed to re-arm/re-fule a single Alpha/beta in less then 30 seconds, Fully Automated, the system can complete This Task 60 Times before needing a Resupply itself, (Whcih takes 15 minutes with the roght equipment, or 3 hours by hand)

Even this way if a normal pod could hold three length wise than you should be able to do 2 but I figured it would open from the point half way down essentially making two bunker roofs. However, yours makes more sense since the two side panels make for more robot arm space and would also allow the alpha some protection at least from the sides and top while it is in its defenseless state.

and Olny a Portion of the Middle would open this way, Giving the Alpha-beta Protction fomr 5 of the 6 Sides.

Ahh and the reason they can only service on Alpha Beta at a time

[Colonel Wolfe]

Ahh and the reason they can only service on Alpha Beta at a time

rt.com's alpha Jet mode Dimansions:
Length: 10.25m
Height: 4.60m (with our with-out the Landing Gear extended?)
Wingspan: 8.20m

Rt.com beta Dimensions:
FIGHTER/BOMBER MODE:
Length: 9.70m
Height: 6.10m
Wingspan: 19.50m (The Beta would have to Dock with tis wings folded back where its not much wider then the Alpha )

Ther Combined Lenght would be a bit over 19Meters:

nose to butt that would be 38M of Lenght.

Using the Dimensions for the pod:

Length: 33.6 m over all.
Height: 8.3 m over all.
Width : 8.7 m over all.

The point of the Pods it to keep then Uniform with the other Pods, so they dont Stick out as being Diffrent to the Enemy (While in Transport configuration), and get Blowed up good.

[Zer0 Kay]

Ahh and the reason they can only service on Alpha Beta at a time

rt.com's alpha Jet mode Dimansions:
Length: 10.25m
Height: 4.60m (with our with-out the Landing Gear extended?)
Wingspan: 8.20m

Rt.com beta Dimensions:
FIGHTER/BOMBER MODE:
Length: 9.70m
Height: 6.10m
Wingspan: 19.50m (The Beta would have to Dock with tis wings folded back where its not much wider then the Alpha )

Ther Combined Lenght would be a bit over 19Meters:

nose to butt that would be 38M of Lenght.

Using the Dimensions for the pod:

Length: 33.6 m over all.
Height: 8.3 m over all.
Width : 8.7 m over all.

The point of the Pods it to keep then Uniform with the other Pods, so they dont Stick out as being Diffrent to the Enemy (While in Transport configuration), and get Blowed up good.

No No I ment refit an Alpha or a Beta on my last post. Aside from that I thought we were conversing about variant bunkers. No one said we were limited to the original size.

[Zer0 Kay]

Hey as far as that base thing goes if you don't use the legios in the center why not have a bunker that connects across the bottom? That way the crew could access the Horizont or Vise Versa through the Legios Airlock. It would also permit the drop of larger foward structures.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Hey as far as that base thing goes if you don't use the legios in the center why not have a bunker that connects across the bottom? That way the crew could access the Horizont or Vise Versa through the Legios Airlock. It would also permit the drop of larger foward structures.

The poblem with this, and the larger pod desines, is that it would throw off the center of gavitiy (center of mass) way off and the Horizont's engeinges would not be able to compensate for it. The horizant would have to be radicly altered for this to be achived.
For the automated resupply pods mentioned earlyer, the wings of the Horizont would need to be choped and the mounting hard point mounted on the end of the formerly wing, and the pod itself would be just the nexus of the resupply automation with lots of specilized robotic arms and conveances atttached to it.

As for the large belly pod, the whole fram of the Horizont would need to be redeisined so in effect it would be a whole nother animal, thus reciving a new name.

[Colonel Wolfe]

As soon as i get some Time I'm gonna work out some of the bugs and do some Photo-shoping on some Images I have. unfortunatly EQ2 has eatne all my free time