Protoculture Canisters:

[Colonel Wolfe]

Moved From the Rifts Forum, Where it was getting to into Robotech:

The REF can also produce protoculture power cells they are the ones that were supposed to have produced them in the first place. They made the Alphas and cyclones to run off of them and that was before they met the Invid. So the REF field scientist (esp. Lang) should understand the process. As far as expending their missile loads...the most probable way for any RT units to get to Rifts is in a Fold misjump so they would likely have a Spacefold capable ship most of which have manufacturing plants.

Made up by the RPG, the Invidn infact Used the Exact Same Cell the REF dose. The Invid Clone Technology, basicaly Evolvong their Mecha to Fight based of enemy designs. Since they Are Using the Exact Same Cell stlye Systems as the REF, you get 2 possible conclusions:

1) They Evolved all there Technology off the REF's Meansing they Never Fought the Robotech Masters.
2) The Cell Design is used by the Masters as well, and Was Adopted by the Humans from Designs on the Crashed SDF-1.

1) Also made up by the series. The Alphas were out before the Invid were even known of.
2) Then that means that the humans were capable of producing protoculture even earlier! I would have said they only learned a little before they developed the Alphas and even then the REF kept it a secret from the SC either that or the SC was so Xenophobic that they didn't want to depend on an alien developed power source...but that doesn't make sense since they depend on alien technology for defense.

Produce Protoculture? Highly Doubtful they ever learned how to. The SDF-1 had a Large amount on board they thye used to Power it and the Mecha Designed byt the Robtech Research Group.

After the Defeat of the Zentradi.... Hundreds of Thousands of Zentradie Ships were Left in orbit/ Crashed on the Planet. Draning the Protoculture from These Ship would Give the UEG a HUGE stockpile of the Mess.

I Believe the RDF Used the Same Style Canisters as the REF, as Did the ASC. There nevr was a Focu on the power supply in the first 2 eras b/c of the fact they were nto in an Energy Crisis... but Scott and crew were... along with Misiles Scot had no problem buring up the Protoulture supply on his Alpha.(Did you really have to launch all your missiles at just two Shock Troopers, Scott?)

"REF kept it a secret from the SC"
Impossible, Both Forces Answered to The Same Military Authourity. they would both have Simmiler Technology,as of the SDF-3 Launch Date of December 2022. The UGE Developed the Earth based Weapon for 7 More years, While the SDF-3 Searched for the Masters Home Wolrd.

Remember, The RED forces that Came with Scot Ddi not think the Invid came for the Flower of Life, but Earth Protoculture Supply. The REF cannot Make Protoculture form the FOL, the REf has no intrest in the FOL.

[Colonel Wolfe]

(Also Moved form the Rifts forum: )

One thing that doesn't make sense to me for some reason is that if Protoculture energy is supposed to be from seeds put into stasis under extreme pressure, how do you make protoculture cells? Wouldn't that make them more like protoculture energy charged batteries than containing actual protoculture? Or am I missing something someplace? Or is it just some plot whole leftover from cramming 3 different anime into one and throwing in the Robotech storyline?

The Canisters dont have Seeds in them, or Scott would have been stealing Seeds instead of Canisters in the Invid inavasion Era. Lunk was a Matinence Engineer, if the REF was using Seed powered Canisters, he could have Made them with his pimp Skillz.

[Zer0 Kay]

(Also Moved form the Rifts forum: )

One thing that doesn't make sense to me for some reason is that if Protoculture energy is supposed to be from seeds put into stasis under extreme pressure, how do you make protoculture cells? Wouldn't that make them more like protoculture energy charged batteries than containing actual protoculture? Or am I missing something someplace? Or is it just some plot whole leftover from cramming 3 different anime into one and throwing in the Robotech storyline?

The Canisters dont have Seeds in them, or Scott would have been stealing Seeds instead of Canisters in the Invid inavasion Era. Lunk was a Matinence Engineer, if the REF was using Seed powered Canisters, he could have Made them with his pimp Skillz.

Why would he steal seeds he nor Lunk have the knowledge. Just because your a maintenance engineer doesn't mean you know how the fuel operates. An F-15 Crew Chief doesn' t know how to make JP-8. A Weapons Loader doesn't know how to make Cintex. Now if they had an REF field scientist he'd probably know how to produce protoculture from from the FoL seeds.

[Zer0 Kay]

Moved From the Rifts Forum, Where it was getting to into Robotech:

The REF can also produce protoculture power cells they are the ones that were supposed to have produced them in the first place. They made the Alphas and cyclones to run off of them and that was before they met the Invid. So the REF field scientist (esp. Lang) should understand the process. As far as expending their missile loads...the most probable way for any RT units to get to Rifts is in a Fold misjump so they would likely have a Spacefold capable ship most of which have manufacturing plants.

Made up by the RPG, the Invidn infact Used the Exact Same Cell the REF dose. The Invid Clone Technology, basicaly Evolvong their Mecha to Fight based of enemy designs. Since they Are Using the Exact Same Cell stlye Systems as the REF, you get 2 possible conclusions:

1) They Evolved all there Technology off the REF's Meansing they Never Fought the Robotech Masters.
2) The Cell Design is used by the Masters as well, and Was Adopted by the Humans from Designs on the Crashed SDF-1.

1) Also made up by the series. The Alphas were out before the Invid were even known of.
2) Then that means that the humans were capable of producing protoculture even earlier! I would have said they only learned a little before they developed the Alphas and even then the REF kept it a secret from the SC either that or the SC was so Xenophobic that they didn't want to depend on an alien developed power source...but that doesn't make sense since they depend on alien technology for defense.

Produce Protoculture? Highly Doubtful they ever learned how to. The SDF-1 had a Large amount on board they thye used to Power it and the Mecha Designed byt the Robtech Research Group.

After the Defeat of the Zentradi.... Hundreds of Thousands of Zentradie Ships were Left in orbit/ Crashed on the Planet. Draning the Protoculture from These Ship would Give the UEG a HUGE stockpile of the Mess.

I Believe the RDF Used the Same Style Canisters as the REF, as Did the ASC. There nevr was a Focu on the power supply in the first 2 eras b/c of the fact they were nto in an Energy Crisis... but Scott and crew were... along with Misiles Scot had no problem buring up the Protoulture supply on his Alpha.(Did you really have to launch all your missiles at just two Shock Troopers, Scott?)

"REF kept it a secret from the SC"
Impossible, Both Forces Answered to The Same Military Authourity. they would both have Simmiler Technology,as of the SDF-3 Launch Date of December 2022. The UGE Developed the Earth based Weapon for 7 More years, While the SDF-3 Searched for the Masters Home Wolrd.

Remember, The RED forces that Came with Scot Ddi not think the Invid came for the Flower of Life, but Earth Protoculture Supply. The REF cannot Make Protoculture form the FOL, the REf has no intrest in the FOL.

The mecha that were designed for the RDF used large Protoculture Reactors. They didn't run off the low life span cells.

Secret..uh yes just like the Army, Navy and Marines didn't know about the SR-71, U-2 or the F-117. They are all part of the DOD but one command doesn't necessarily know what the other is doing. Besides I thought there was a concensus that the SC mecha didn't use protoculture power.

So your saying either the SC was stupid going with the unit armors instead of powered Cyclone armor or the Cyclone Armor was developed after the REF left.

[Colonel Wolfe]

The mecha that were designed for the RDF used large Protoculture Reactors. They didn't run off the low life span cells.

Secret..uh yes just like the Army, Navy and Marines didn't know about the SR-71, U-2 or the F-117. They are all part of the DOD but one command doesn't necessarily know what the other is doing. Besides I thought there was a concensus that the SC mecha didn't use protoculture power.

So your saying either the SC was stupid going with the unit armors instead of powered Cyclone armor or the Cyclone Armor was developed after the REF left.

The RDF Mecha: Sorry Thats a RPG Idea based off Speculated Macross Information. Look at the Destroid Description, they Describe them as having some Kind of Fusion Drives.

Either The Masters Used this type of Cell and both the Humans and the Invid Adopted it.
OR
The Invid never fought the Masters b/c They Adopted Inferior Technology (in the way of Protoculture Systems) the Humans posessed.
The Invid are a Race of Leeches/Paracites They Take and rarely Develop any thing on there Own. Just as the 5th Stage Invid Were Humans Simulants, they Adopted the Alpha's Batalord Design for the RCB and the Beta's Design for the Overlord.


The Novels and the RPG inply the ASC was low on Protoculture. Which on both counts are bogus. The ASC could Feild over 50 Fold-capable Capital Ships Verus the Masters... not something a "Out of Protoculture" Force could pull off if they were Making all their Mecha Nuclear powered. (honstly I believe All 3 Era have nuculaer powered Machines, Just Protoculture Acts as a Coolent/Reactant for the Drives)

The Cyclone was a Developed After the REF took to the Stars, not before, same with the Beta, Condor and many other Main line Late REF Designs.

As for the REf having Secrets... Whats Logic is there for the Earth Gov to Send its best and top of the Line Equipment somewhere Else, and Leave only the Worst technology behind to Defend you home? Even in the Army today we send good Equipment in to the Feilds, but we dont Send all of our Best Equipment else Where and leave our National Boarders Defensless.

[Zer0 Kay]

The mecha that were designed for the RDF used large Protoculture Reactors. They didn't run off the low life span cells.

Secret..uh yes just like the Army, Navy and Marines didn't know about the SR-71, U-2 or the F-117. They are all part of the DOD but one command doesn't necessarily know what the other is doing. Besides I thought there was a concensus that the SC mecha didn't use protoculture power.

So your saying either the SC was stupid going with the unit armors instead of powered Cyclone armor or the Cyclone Armor was developed after the REF left.

The RDF Mecha: Sorry Thats a RPG Idea based off Speculated Macross Information. Look at the Destroid Description, they Describe them as having some Kind of Fusion Drives.

Either The Masters Used this type of Cell and both the Humans and the Invid Adopted it.
OR
The Invid never fought the Masters b/c They Adopted Inferior Technology (in the way of Protoculture Systems) the Humans posessed.
The Invid are a Race of Leeches/Paracites They Take and rarely Develop any thing on there Own. Just as the 5th Stage Invid Were Humans Simulants, they Adopted the Alpha's Batalord Design for the RCB and the Beta's Design for the Overlord.


The Novels and the RPG inply the ASC was low on Protoculture. Which on both counts are bogus. The ASC could Feild over 50 Fold-capable Capital Ships Verus the Masters... not something a "Out of Protoculture" Force could pull off if they were Making all their Mecha Nuclear powered. (honstly I believe All 3 Era have nuculaer powered Machines, Just Protoculture Acts as a Coolent/Reactant for the Drives)

The Cyclone was a Developed After the REF took to the Stars, not before, same with the Beta, Condor and many other Main line Late REF Designs.

As for the REf having Secrets... Whats Logic is there for the Earth Gov to Send its best and top of the Line Equipment somewhere Else, and Leave only the Worst technology behind to Defend you home? Even in the Army today we send good Equipment in to the Feilds, but we dont Send all of our Best Equipment else Where and leave our National Boarders Defensless.

OK on everything put the last paragraph. They didn't send all their best equipment. They also thought that they'd head off the RT Masters. So leaving the Earth with slightly outdated equipment isn't rediculous. What happened to all the Macross Era equipment? Secrets? Its not the army going overseas and leaving behind some of their equipment it is the Navy going overseas with the Marines and Leaving the Army behind with the equipment they developed. It's like in Vietnam USAF had F-117 developed Army had M551 Sheridans. Not exactly on PAR with each other. It's because the equipment being developed for one doesn't get shared with all the other development teams.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

They also thought that they'd head off the RT Masters. So leaving the Earth with slightly outdated equipment isn't rediculous.

The implication, by your statement, is that any scientist not part of the Robotech Expedition was an idiot? Or that somehow the military-industrial complex on Earth decided it would be better to outfit the UEF with less than optimal equipment?

Do you realise how utterly asinine that is? The real world does not work this way.

[Cyclone]

IMO REF adopting cells was because it allowed them to better use their protoculture supply even if we ignore the posbility of rationing a limited a supply. Lose a brand new VF-1 and kiss good bye years of P, lose an Alpha and lose a week/month's worth at most. Not to mention the same volume of P for a single VF-1 reactor could be used to fuel a wing or two of Alphas...

The whole issue is an interesting one of how closely do we stick to what the original series say. We know that P-cells exist in Robotech, we see them, but do we see a VF-1 reactor?

Yet what are the odds people would scream if they were changed to run on cells also...

[Colonel Wolfe]

IMO REF adopting cells was because it allowed them to better use their protoculture supply even if we ignore the posbility of rationing a limited a supply. Lose a brand new VF-1 and kiss good bye years of P, lose an Alpha and lose a week/month's worth at most. Not to mention the same volume of P for a single VF-1 reactor could be used to fuel a wing or two of Alphas...

The whole issue is an interesting one of how closely do we stick to what the original series say. We know that P-cells exist in Robotech, we see them, but do we see a VF-1 reactor?

Yet what are the odds people would scream if they were changed to run on cells also...

Well, people have Cried/Whined/Bytched when Rt.com Moved the REf return back aprox 10 years.
The uRRG has the Mecha of all 3 eras using the Same Stander Protoculture Cell. You are Right, You never see a VF-1 Veritechs 10-year Protoculture Reactor, but you do see the Cells in use in New Generation, Whats to say This type of Cell was not in use the entire time, and was only a Major issue in the Invid era because of how much Fule/ammo scot and crew waster, and the fact they had no Support Staff to take care of all the Refuling off Screen.

In Macross-era the VF-1 were Serviced by Technicians who were no Main chracters.
In Southren Cross-era The Bataloids/Veritechs/Power Armors were Serviced off screen by Technicians and support staff.
In New Generation, Lunk is the only one who is half-way in charge of Keeping the Alphas & Betas Running... it would seam like they use more Fule then a VF-1 & Hover-Tank becasue the Era Focused on them Finding and re-fuling there Mecha, were as it was never a major issue in the previous 2 eras.Scott & Crew Travel from somewhere in the Amazon rain forrect to somewhere West of Newyork.... and in a VERY zig-zaged Pattren.(as Rtsurfer shows here: http://www.rtsurfer.com/theway.htm {on a side note: the Mospeada Animators sure did a aweful job of drawing the southeast US.})

From Denver to New york is Nearly 2000 Miles. Thou an Alpha can cover that in a few hours, by that point they were 7 people, 2 alphas, 2 betas, 4 cylones, a Jeep and ZERO support Staff.

It would seam the new generation Mecha use more Fule, but its not an Accurate comparison, as there is not Markers in the Eariler Eras to how much the Designs used. (Dose the US army build Planes with a 10 year fule Supply built in?)

[Zer0 Kay]

They also thought that they'd head off the RT Masters. So leaving the Earth with slightly outdated equipment isn't rediculous.

The implication, by your statement, is that any scientist not part of the Robotech Expedition was an idiot? Or that somehow the military-industrial complex on Earth decided it would be better to outfit the UEF with less than optimal equipment?

Do you realise how utterly asinine that is? The real world does not work this way.

Hmm in comparison to Lang and Penn...yes. No the UEF decided that the SC's Equipment was sufficient to keep the peace and fend off invaders long enough for the fleet to return. Of course that would be with the assumption that the 5 year fold was bogus. And yes the military-industrial complex of Earth would decide that it would be more important to have a fleet that is going to go on a "diplomatic" possible full war mission with little chance of resupply from Earth to have the best possible equipment and since the best possible equipment is in limited production they'd likely get it all. Now in the case of the SC the reason why their stuff is slightly inferrior is because it allows the industrial sector to make more, faster, now.

No, I realize how they send all the new tech after it's been tested primarily overseas to people who are in the combat zone. For example stateside security forces still use the standard M-16A2 overseas they are equiped with the (in my opinion not much better) M-4A1. They also have more supplies redeily available, whereas state side we have to order it and it can take up to a week.

If the UN wasn't expecting the Earth to be attacked because the REF was going to the enemy then they wouldn't waste money equiping the SC with all the best gear when the REF would need it. The SC would be equipped with stuff that could be manufactured easily, cheaply and fast. It's better to have a small group of highly priced equiped for any situation warriors and a large low priced prudently equipped police force. Yes I just said that the REF was sent on a war mission and all the SC was set up for was a police action.

[Zer0 Kay]

IMO REF adopting cells was because it allowed them to better use their protoculture supply even if we ignore the posbility of rationing a limited a supply. Lose a brand new VF-1 and kiss good bye years of P, lose an Alpha and lose a week/month's worth at most. Not to mention the same volume of P for a single VF-1 reactor could be used to fuel a wing or two of Alphas...

The whole issue is an interesting one of how closely do we stick to what the original series say. We know that P-cells exist in Robotech, we see them, but do we see a VF-1 reactor?

Yet what are the odds people would scream if they were changed to run on cells also...

Good point since they left Earth with a limited supply of PC (apparently) and the capability to produce more Mecha if necessary. However I recall some episode where they showed how a PC reactor works...then again it may have been a comic. Maybe the P-cells have a nutrient (needed because it isn't a simple chemical reaction but some sort of bio-electrical energy, if people don't like that excuse go play Battletech) that holds the PC energy that is drawn off of the, too large for the new Mechas, PC reactor.

[Zer0 Kay]

IMO REF adopting cells was because it allowed them to better use their protoculture supply even if we ignore the posbility of rationing a limited a supply. Lose a brand new VF-1 and kiss good bye years of P, lose an Alpha and lose a week/month's worth at most. Not to mention the same volume of P for a single VF-1 reactor could be used to fuel a wing or two of Alphas...

The whole issue is an interesting one of how closely do we stick to what the original series say. We know that P-cells exist in Robotech, we see them, but do we see a VF-1 reactor?

Yet what are the odds people would scream if they were changed to run on cells also...

Good point since they left Earth with a limited supply of PC (apparently) and the capability to produce more Mecha if necessary. However I recall some episode where they showed how a PC reactor works...then again it may have been a comic. Maybe the P-cells have a nutrient (needed because it isn't a simple chemical reaction but some sort of bio-electrical energy, if people don't like that excuse go play Battletech) that holds the PC energy that is drawn off of the, too large for the new Mechas, PC reactor.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

Hmm in comparison to Lang and Penn...yes.

Ok, smart guy. Where is your proof?

No the UEF decided that the SC's Equipment was sufficient to keep the peace and fend off invaders long enough for the fleet to return.

Sufficient to keep the peace and inferior are not synonymous. You're saying the UEG gave the Pioneer Expedition the equivalent of the M-1 Abrams while the UEF got Shermans. Procurement doesn't work that way. Nor would any Senator have his job very long if they allowed such a practice to go on.

And yes the military-industrial complex of Earth would decide that it would be more important to have a fleet that is going to go on a "diplomatic" possible full war mission with little chance of resupply from Earth to have the best possible equipment and since the best possible equipment is in limited production they'd likely get it all.

Sorry, but the idea that the Expedition was completely cutp-off from Earth is moronic. There is not only 2-way communication, but every ship in the UEG arsenal has space fold generators.

Now in the case of the SC the reason why their stuff is slightly inferrior is because it allows the industrial sector to make more, faster, now.

God almighty...the UEG has the resources of almost the entire planet plus the refurbished sections of Little Luna (Space Stations Liberty, Glory, Freedom and Independence) on top of any materials gained from mining the Asteroid Belt and the moons of Jupiter. This doesnt even begin to touch on the extra-Solar colonies. The Senate would be taken out and shot en masse if they allowed crappy gear to be given to the troops defending the planet.

Use some fragging common sense.

Yes I just said that the REF was sent on a war mission and all the SC was set up for was a police action.

Thats funny...I dont seem to remember any police force that was ever issued thermonuclear weapons. Sorry, but your entire line of reasoning is asinine.

[Zer0 Kay]

Hmm in comparison to Lang and Penn...yes.

1) Ok, smart guy. Where is your proof?

No the UEF decided that the SC's Equipment was sufficient to keep the peace and fend off invaders long enough for the fleet to return.

2) Sufficient to keep the peace and inferior are not synonymous. You're saying the UEG gave the Pioneer Expedition the equivalent of the M-1 Abrams while the UEF got Shermans. Procurement doesn't work that way. Nor would any Senator have his job very long if they allowed such a practice to go on.

And yes the military-industrial complex of Earth would decide that it would be more important to have a fleet that is going to go on a "diplomatic" possible full war mission with little chance of resupply from Earth to have the best possible equipment and since the best possible equipment is in limited production they'd likely get it all.

3) Sorry, but the idea that the Expedition was completely cutp-off from Earth is moronic. There is not only 2-way communication, but every ship in the UEG arsenal has space fold generators.

Now in the case of the SC the reason why their stuff is slightly inferrior is because it allows the industrial sector to make more, faster, now.

4) God almighty...the UEG has the resources of almost the entire planet plus the refurbished sections of Little Luna (Space Stations Liberty, Glory, Freedom and Independence) on top of any materials gained from mining the Asteroid Belt and the moons of Jupiter. This doesnt even begin to touch on the extra-Solar colonies. The Senate would be taken out and shot en masse if they allowed crappy gear to be given to the troops defending the planet.

4.1) Use some fragging common sense.

Yes I just said that the REF was sent on a war mission and all the SC was set up for was a police action.

5) Thats funny...I dont seem to remember any police force that was ever issued thermonuclear weapons. Sorry, but your entire line of reasoning is asinine.

1) No Proof just assumption. You never hear of any other scientists and Lang is supposed to be a prodigy.

2) Damn so you mean all NYPD or LAPD are going to be armed with M-16s like the military? Or that a UN peacekeeping mission has HUMVs with the quad Hellfire missile launchers. NO they are equipped for the mission. Someones arguement on a different thread about SC being more flexible because it has a variety of specialized mecha is stupid also that doesn't make them more flexible it makes them more specialized. It is better to equip an army with a system that does all things equally well and mass produce it. That is flexibilty! No I'm saying the SC got the Sherman while the REF got the F-117 or to put it in more up to date terms SC M1 Abrams REF F-22 & B-1. Again there entirely different branches with different missions and they have their equipment to fit thier missions.

3)Even if they have supply capabilities it is still better to keep the supplies with you rather than having to wait for months for a ship that while in fold is going to appear where you were not where you are. That is a very flimsy supply line.

4) I like how you go from the UEG has senators to they have xyz resources. If they have senators they are probably still a democracy and therefore have free trade if there is free trade their is still the issue of money. Now if they were a communist of facist government then it wouldn't matter because xyz belongs to them and if you don't provide it you will die. The only problem with that is that everything off earth would probably revolt only giveing you x resources and y and z in a revolution against you. Where did you get info for exosolar colonies from? I didn't remember them mentioning any in SC..or II, I only remember Mars, Jupiter and Luna being mentioned.

4.1) You mean how your saying that they weren't going to use nukes in Korea? Or how your saying that everything one branch researches the other one knows. Or how your saying that you don't send an aircraft carrier out with more supplies than a Coastguard ship ew ew even better a submarine, what I think they have a 9 month compared to a carriers 6 month and other ships 3 months? So yeah I thought I was using common sense that the Navy would have more supplies than the Army.

5) huh??? the U.S. is the U.N.s Police force (our forces get tapped more than any other country's) and we may not be authorized nukes but our military is sure issued them (of course not as personal items that would be silly). That may be a reason they tap us more, because the country may be bullied into a "peaceful" status by our military might and capability to retaliate. Besides a military policing/police action is a synonym for President did what he wanted without approval from the senate. It all depends on what the police force is supposed to be keeping the peace over.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

You never hear of any other scientists and Lang is supposed to be a prodigy.

Thats funny, I dont ever seem to remember Lang being called a prodigy in Robotech. Please, give me the episode number and name.

And you do hear of 4 other Robotech scientist...all of whom happen to be in the Southern Cross portion of Robotech. At least 2 of them are part of the Robotech Research Group: Dr. Sampson Beckett and Dr. Miles Cochrane. Then there is Dr. Byron from eps. #45 Metal Fire and Major Cromwell from eps. #53 The Hunters.

Again there entirely different branches with different missions and they have their equipment to fit thier missions.

God almighty, they are NOT separate branches of the military. It does NOT work that way. The Pioneer Mission is composed of troops from the United Earth Forces that are sent on an expedition. You don't go into your recruiter and say 'Yea, let me sign up for the Expeditionary Force instead of the UEF Army.'

Even if they have supply capabilities it is still better to keep the supplies with you rather than having to wait for months for a ship that while in fold is going to appear where you were not where you are.

Yeshua Christos...can you read? I dont know how to put it more plainly: they have FTL comm capability. Do you not think they preplan for resupply that doesnt require broadcasting it over an open frequency?

I like how you go from the UEG has senators to they have xyz resources.

How else are you gonna explain the fact that in the 2nd Robotech War the UEF can field over 150 capital ships (on screen) and over 10,000 Veritechs/Starfighters? Its not because their mecha is inferior, as Ive tried to explain to you before. Heck, the mainline Veritech of the UEF (VF-7 Sylphide) is better than the VF-1 Valkyrie in all respects. The same holds true for the Sylphide vs the Alpha. And I dare say that the SF/A-7 Chimera is better than the SF/A-5 Bat, VF/B-5 Condor or VF/B-9 Beta when it comes to Strike missions.

If they have senators they are probably still a democracy and therefore have free trade if there is free trade their is still the issue of money.

I imagine a planetary scale economy can support a bit. Even if the Anti-Unification League survived in the form of the EBSIS and other non-aligned countries, the UEG should be able to support this level of building. Of course, they could always run deficits.

The only problem with that is that everything off earth would probably revolt only giving you x resources and y and z in a revolution against you.

I do believe it was Mars colonists that sent back their sons to help reclaim the Earth in Robotech. It would also appear that they are not alone as the crewman in eps. #61 The Invid Invasion stated that they were all born out in deep space on a Robotech ship (a mobile colony if you like).

Where did you get info for exosolar colonies from?

Hmm...lets see...evidence,

We see the remains of an Earth cruiser some 20 light years from Earth in eps. #31 Khyron's Revenge. That puts it in the Delta Pavonis system which does happen to have a G dwarf star like our own.

Gloval makes reference to mankind needing to grow up and leave the cradle behind in eps. #36 To the Stars.

Major Carpenter in eps. #47 Outsiders says he hoped they hadn't exposed their defenses as a result of the days battle. Its definite that he is not talking about the Earth.

The unnamed crewman in eps. #61 The Invid Invasion said that they were born out in deep space on a Robotech ship.

That pretty much cements the idea that there are colonies of one form or another outside our solar system. Where do you think the civlians and support staff are gonna live? On ships?

So yeah I thought I was using common sense that the Navy would have more supplies than the Army.

Actually, I do believe the US Army has more surface tonnage than the US Navy.

It all depends on what the police force is supposed to be keeping the peace over.

Police actions tend to be low-intensity warfare. They also happen to usually be short duration. Sorry, but the animation in the Tv series blows this argument out of the water. The UEF was set up to defend itself for a protracted period of time.

[Jefffar]

You don't go into your recruiter and say 'Yea, let me sign up for the Expeditionary Force instead of the UEF Army.'

Actually, until recently, that's what was typically done.

The AEF, BEF and CEF that fought in the first world war were all Expiditionary Forces because, at the time, the constitution of each of those countries required that soldiers sent overseas were an all-volunteer force.

National Guard and Coast Guard units in the United States are only deployed overseas in times of urgent need. It's the Army/Airforce/Navy/Marines that are the first to go.

Similarly, one of the reasons the French kept the Foriegn Legion around so long is because of a constitutional prohibition on sending their citizens into an overseas war (their colonies are not considered overseas duty).

I think the soviet union, and its successor states had different branches of their army, airforce and navy, one purely for territorial defence, and one capable of conducting operations outside of their borders.

The Japanese militaries are collectively known as the Self Defence Forces and are constiutionally prohibited from oversease combat operations (the troops in Iraq are there to provide humanitarian aide).

The REF and ASC answer to the same civilian structure, the UEG. but there is no conclusive proof that they share any of the same military chain of command.

Then again, it would be pretty stupid if there wasn't a SCUEF somewhere.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Eli Leonard
DESCRIPTION:

The Supreme Commander of all United Earth Forces.

Unless the REF was not part of the UEF, they Share a Common Supream Commander. (Maybe my REF is Traitors Theory is beginning to pan out)

Both of my Uncles Voulnteered to join the Army, One Right before Veitnam, one Right after it began.

The One who Joined before was sent to Veitnam. The other one Joined Asking to be sent to Veitnam, the Recruiter told him "sure, you'll get to go see some action" he spent 4 years guarding Jeeps in Germany.

Signing up for the National Guard and the Army are really 2 diffrent Things. If i wanna stay in the US i'll join the National guard. If i wanan goto Iraq, I'll go join the Army.

The Armies of the Southren Cross are not a National Guard force. They have More Ships then the REF, More Mecha and Ship-Buster Nuclear Missiles. In comparison dose the National guard have more Naval Ships, More Guns and Bigger Bombs then the Army?

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

The REF and ASC answer to the same civilian structure, the UEG. but there is no conclusive proof that they share any of the same military chain of command.

Baloney. General Emerson is shown to excercise operational control over the returning Pioneer Expedition forces in eps. #54 Mind Games. These forces, by the way, are conclusively shown to be those that are Pioneer in dialogue in eps. #53 The Hunters, eps. #68 Eulogy and eps. #78 Ghost Town. I'm not saying that General Reinhardt, and Admiral Hunter after him, didn't have discretionary authority in many cases, but its obvious that the UEF Supreme Commander was their boss, whose boss was in turn UEG Prime Minister Wyatt Moran.

[Jefffar]

Both of my Uncles Voulnteered to join the Army, One Right before Veitnam, one Right after it began.

The One who Joined before was sent to Veitnam. The other one Joined Asking to be sent to Veitnam, the Recruiter told him "sure, you'll get to go see some action" he spent 4 years guarding Jeeps in Germany.

They both joined the army and they both served overseas.

Signing up for the National Guard and the Army are really 2 diffrent Things. If i wanna stay in the US i'll join the National guard. If i wanan goto Iraq, I'll go join the Army.

If I want to stay a part of Earth's defnece forces, I'll join the ASC. If I want to go to the Master's homeworld, I'll join the REF.

The Armies of the Southren Cross are not a National Guard force. They have More Ships then the REF, More Mecha and Ship-Buster Nuclear Missiles. In comparison dose the National guard have more Naval Ships, More Guns and Bigger Bombs then the Army?

I think you misunderstand my National Guard reference. I was talking in terms of role (ie they serve as a territorial protection force, help preserve civil order and perform disater relief) not in gear. The biggest and best numbers of gear will go to the force that is expected to need them. In the case of the modern United States, the national interests require that equipment to be available for overseas deployments. If the United States didn't have it's fingers in things all over the world, you would see NG Abrahams and Apaches patrolling the border. But, for the last 60 years or so, that stuff was desperately needed in Europe, Asia and the Middle East, with the Army, Navy, Marines and Air Force.

I see no problem with the ASC (who I view as replacing the RDF in primary role) having more and better gear. I always asumed they had lots of stuff. They didn't have the SDF-3 though, because it was felt that it was the best suited to the job of going to the master's homeworld. It was purpose built for that very mission. The REF's gear was chosen with an eye to supporting a space fleet on long range deployment. The ASC's gear was chosen for a defensive operation against a fleet attacking earth.

By the way, when I mean defense, I include the old adage the best defense is a good offesne. Leonard was right to attack (or counter attack) the Master's at every oppourtunity. My only disagreement with his style is he tended to loose a lot of troops for little gain, btu then again he was up agaisnt the Robotech masters, so that's to be expected.

[Colonel Wolfe]

By the way, when I mean defense, I include the old adage the best defense is a good offesne. Leonard was right to attack (or counter attack) the Master's at every oppourtunity. My only disagreement with his style is he tended to loose a lot of troops for little gain, btu then again he was up agaisnt the Robotech masters, so that's to be expected.

But they only had one Tatic against the Masters, Attack and hope you can take soem of them out. The Masters Technology out Classed the best the UEF (ASC & REF) Tossed against them. Heavy Loses are to be Expected when fighting.

Look at the Last Samuria, in the Fianl Conflict the Saumria Pressed the Attack and did a darn good job, but in the end were Killed to the Man. its the Same Situation with the UEF v. the Masters: the ASC Pressed the Attack to the best they could, but they faild in the end. They Masters Just out Classed them with Supeior Firepower.

One Main reason the ASC's Attackes had so many Cassualties... Zor-Prime was Spying and the Masters knew when each and Every attack was comming, HAd to Make head way when and Enemy knows you comming and is ready for the attack days before you launch it. (once Again thank Emmerson, he convinced them to let Zor-prime Live... Thats the Action that Dammned the Earth.)

[Jefffar]

Well, how the hell was Emmerson to know the RM's could plant a bug in somebody's brain?

The dumb move was letting the Zor clone out of a cell.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Well, how the hell was Emmerson to know the RM's could plant a bug in somebody's brain?

The dumb move was letting the Zor clone out of a cell.

He couldnt' thats why He sould have been either Killed (as one person said he may have been a captured human, which makes him a Traitor during a time of war, a Crime punishiable by Death) or Placed in a Maxximum Security Prison for "Evaluation", AK Torture and such til he talked. Emmerson had him Assigned to the 15th, Where he was Allowed to Observe UFE Troop Movements. and Later Detonate a Mothership over the SDF-1 Ruins, that Spread the Seeds and Dammned the Earth.

Emmerson seams to me to have Made many bad calls. Many more so then Leonard ever did.

[Jefffar]

Which is an interesting commentary on whatsort of morality you want your senior officers to possess.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Which is an interesting commentary on whatsort of morality you want your senior officers to possess.

"War is Hell"
I'd Personaly Like a command staff with the Balls to do what Right to Protect the Peoples of Earth form all Agressors, Froigen and Domestic.

fact: Zor Prime was Captured form an Eenmy Mecha.
Fact: Zor Prime was then Considred a Prisoner of War
Fact: One Scientist BElieve Zor prime to be human, if he is Human, he is a Traitor. a Traitors Fate is Death.
Fact: if not a Traitor, he Should be Held and Questioned until he gives up any information he has on Enemy Troops.
Fact: the UEG is not stated to Follow Geneva COnvention.

Troture, Thou distasteful, is a Nessicary means to Extract Information from an Enemy who will not talk

Allowing Said enemy to Roam freely through you Comlexs and Join a Squad of your Soilders is not An Acceptiable Fate for a POW.


Zor Prime should have never been allowed to Walk Freely. Period, his Fate is a non-issue.

Emmerson Made the Mistake of Letting him go. Emmerson totes the Blame for the Deaths due to the Masters fore-knowledge of Assualts and also for the Death Caused by the Invid invasion.

[Jefffar]

If I remember Emmerson's reasoning, it was something along the lines of experiences involving Dana seemed to stimulate the memory of the amnesiatic POW. So, if he has more exposure to Dana, he might remember something useful.

Good idea, but it should have definietly been handled in a more controlled way. Preferably inside a secure facility.

Torture as a form of interrogation is not only distasteful, it's ineficient. The boys who came home from the Hanoi Hilton were often, even under torture, to give misleading information to the NVA.

The most efficient forms of interrogation typically involve getting the subject to like you, to let down his guard.


But still they shouldn't invlove giving the subject oppourtunity to escape, to communicate with accomplises or become privy to classified information. That's the key mistake. But, unless Emmerson is the ehad of Military Intellegence, he shouldn't have the authority to write those orders. So somewhere an MI higher up had to get convinced that this was the way to go.

My biggest criticism of Emmerson is his habit of listening to his stepdaughter rather than his commander.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Emmerson's Robotech.com Bio lists him as:

Rolf Emerson

Chief of Staff for the Armies of the Southern Cross

if this is correct (I doubt it, but eh) Then he had the Authority to Issue the That Order.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

My biggest criticism of Emerson is his habit of listening to his stepdaughter rather than his commander.

Well...I agree he should have shut his yap with regards to Supreme Commander Leonard, but just for the record, Emerson was not Dana's godfather or even guardian. That was Bowie and its made abundantly clear in eps. #42 Danger Zone.

[Zer0 Kay]

Which is an interesting commentary on whatsort of morality you want your senior officers to possess.

"War is Hell"
I'd Personaly Like a command staff with the Balls to do what Right to Protect the Peoples of Earth form all Agressors, Froigen and Domestic.

fact: Zor Prime was Captured form an Eenmy Mecha.
Fact: Zor Prime was then Considred a Prisoner of War
Fact: One Scientist BElieve Zor prime to be human, if he is Human, he is a Traitor. a Traitors Fate is Death.
Fact: if not a Traitor, he Should be Held and Questioned until he gives up any information he has on Enemy Troops.
Fact: the UEG is not stated to Follow Geneva COnvention.

Troture, Thou distasteful, is a Nessicary means to Extract Information from an Enemy who will not talk

Allowing Said enemy to Roam freely through you Comlexs and Join a Squad of your Soilders is not An Acceptiable Fate for a POW.


Zor Prime should have never been allowed to Walk Freely. Period, his Fate is a non-issue.

Emmerson Made the Mistake of Letting him go. Emmerson totes the Blame for the Deaths due to the Masters fore-knowledge of Assualts and also for the Death Caused by the Invid invasion.

There was a country that thought that all of their upper officers in a special military group had thouse balls...Oh wait that was the German SS!!

[Zer0 Kay]

You never hear of any other scientists and Lang is supposed to be a prodigy.

Thats funny, I dont ever seem to remember Lang being called a prodigy in Robotech. Please, give me the episode number and name.

And you do hear of 4 other Robotech scientist...all of whom happen to be in the Southern Cross portion of Robotech. At least 2 of them are part of the Robotech Research Group: Dr. Sampson Beckett and Dr. Miles Cochrane. Then there is Dr. Byron from eps. #45 Metal Fire and Major Cromwell from eps. #53 The Hunters.

Again there entirely different branches with different missions and they have their equipment to fit thier missions.

God almighty, they are NOT separate branches of the military. It does NOT work that way. The Pioneer Mission is composed of troops from the United Earth Forces that are sent on an expedition. You don't go into your recruiter and say 'Yea, let me sign up for the Expeditionary Force instead of the UEF Army.'

Even if they have supply capabilities it is still better to keep the supplies with you rather than having to wait for months for a ship that while in fold is going to appear where you were not where you are.

Yeshua Christos...can you read? I dont know how to put it more plainly: they have FTL comm capability. Do you not think they preplan for resupply that doesnt require broadcasting it over an open frequency?

I like how you go from the UEG has senators to they have xyz resources.

How else are you gonna explain the fact that in the 2nd Robotech War the UEF can field over 150 capital ships (on screen) and over 10,000 Veritechs/Starfighters? Its not because their mecha is inferior, as Ive tried to explain to you before. Heck, the mainline Veritech of the UEF (VF-7 Sylphide) is better than the VF-1 Valkyrie in all respects. The same holds true for the Sylphide vs the Alpha. And I dare say that the SF/A-7 Chimera is better than the SF/A-5 Bat, VF/B-5 Condor or VF/B-9 Beta when it comes to Strike missions.

If they have senators they are probably still a democracy and therefore have free trade if there is free trade their is still the issue of money.

I imagine a planetary scale economy can support a bit. Even if the Anti-Unification League survived in the form of the EBSIS and other non-aligned countries, the UEG should be able to support this level of building. Of course, they could always run deficits.

The only problem with that is that everything off earth would probably revolt only giving you x resources and y and z in a revolution against you.

I do believe it was Mars colonists that sent back their sons to help reclaim the Earth in Robotech. It would also appear that they are not alone as the crewman in eps. #61 The Invid Invasion stated that they were all born out in deep space on a Robotech ship (a mobile colony if you like).

Where did you get info for exosolar colonies from?

Hmm...lets see...evidence,

We see the remains of an Earth cruiser some 20 light years from Earth in eps. #31 Khyron's Revenge. That puts it in the Delta Pavonis system which does happen to have a G dwarf star like our own.

Gloval makes reference to mankind needing to grow up and leave the cradle behind in eps. #36 To the Stars.

Major Carpenter in eps. #47 Outsiders says he hoped they hadn't exposed their defenses as a result of the days battle. Its definite that he is not talking about the Earth.

The unnamed crewman in eps. #61 The Invid Invasion said that they were born out in deep space on a Robotech ship.

That pretty much cements the idea that there are colonies of one form or another outside our solar system. Where do you think the civlians and support staff are gonna live? On ships?

So yeah I thought I was using common sense that the Navy would have more supplies than the Army.

Actually, I do believe the US Army has more surface tonnage than the US Navy.

It all depends on what the police force is supposed to be keeping the peace over.

Police actions tend to be low-intensity warfare. They also happen to usually be short duration. Sorry, but the animation in the Tv series blows this argument out of the water. The UEF was set up to defend itself for a protracted period of time.

Are you making those scientist up because Sampson Beckett sounds a lot like Sam Beckett and Miles Cochrane (wasn't that the inventor of warp drive?) I coulda sworn SC was before both.

So your saying that the REF is part of the SC yeah whatever try the REF is what the RDF became. The UEF is like the DOD the REF is the Navy and the SC is the Army or rather the UEF is D.C. the REF is NASA (though far more militant but they have to be considering where their going) and the SC is the DOD.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Are you making those scientist up because Sampson Beckett sounds a lot like Sam Beckett and Miles Cochrane (wasn't that the inventor of warp drive?) I coulda sworn SC was before both.

So your saying that the REF is part of the SC yeah whatever try the REF is what the RDF became. The UEF is like the DOD the REF is the Navy and the SC is the Army or rather the UEF is D.C. the REF is NASA (though far more militant but they have to be considering where their going) and the SC is the DOD.

Zephren Cochran, Invertor of the Warp Drive, he Predates the ASC animation byt a Good 25 years. As Captina Kirk Met him in Star Trek "The origonal series".

The ASC is what became of the RDF, Both Leonard and Emmerson are Ex-RDF Officers in Positions of Power in the ASC. Though the REF has many of the Main Chracters form macross in it, The Majority is new Blood, Jack Baker and Karen penn are what would be the more Common members to the REF. People who Served in the SDF-1 Era wars Either Retired or Went on to Serve in the ASC, as the ASC was now in Charge of the Same thing the RDF was. (The ACS did do a better job Defending the Earth then the RDF, the Masters didn't Vaporise 70% of the Worlds population under the ASC's Watch.)

[Colonel Wolfe]

Which is an interesting commentary on whatsort of morality you want your senior officers to possess.

"War is Hell"
I'd Personaly Like a command staff with the Balls to do what Right to Protect the Peoples of Earth form all Agressors, Froigen and Domestic.

There was a country that thought that all of their upper officers in a special military group had thouse balls...Oh wait that was the German SS!!

Actually, Every American Soilder Swears an other to Protect America form all Agressors, Forgien and Domestic. Its not something expected from just form High command, but of every soilder. I'd honstly Hope every Soilder has the balls to do what is Right to Protect Americs.

I, _________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

I wont Debate the SS with you, Thats a Sure fire way to get the Thread locked. I dont even know why you had to bring it in to the Conversation. You want to compare the ACS to the SS?

[Shawn Merrow]

We see the remains of an Earth cruiser some 20 light years from Earth in eps. #31 Khyron's Revenge. That puts it in the Delta Pavonis system which does happen to have a G dwarf star like our own.

Sure that is episode 31 only one I remember seeing a wreck in was ep. "30 - Viva Miriya" and don't remember anything about it being from Earth.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

Are you making those scientist up because Sampson Beckett sounds a lot like Sam Beckett and Miles Cochrane (wasn't that the inventor of warp drive?)

No, I did NOT make them up. I watch the series, unlike you, apparently. Reference Danger Zone, Metal Fire and Outsiders and you'll clearly hear the names Sampson Beckett and Miles Cochrane. Sheesh.

So your saying that the REF is part of the SC yeah whatever try the REF is what the RDF became. The UEF is like the DOD the REF is the Navy and the SC is the Army or rather the UEF is D.C. the REF is NASA (though far more militant but they have to be considering where their going) and the SC is the DOD.

::sighs::

The United Earth Forces is just that, the military forces of the United Earth Government that are split into an Army, Air Force/Space Force and Wet Navy. The Army of the Southern Cross apparently does refer to the UEF Army, but the REF is NOT a coequal force. Its an Expeditionary Force. It would draw upon personnel from 2 of the 3 service branches: Army and Air Force (Navy isn't likely to be sent into deep space).

[Colonel Wolfe]

Are you making those scientist up because Sampson Beckett sounds a lot like Sam Beckett and Miles Cochrane (wasn't that the inventor of warp drive?)

No, I did NOT make them up. I watch the series, unlike you, apparently. Reference Danger Zone, Metal Fire and Outsiders and you'll clearly hear the names Sampson Beckett and Miles Cochrane. Sheesh.

http://www.angelfire.com/games5/robotechmod/RTDB1.html

Beckett, Prof. Sampson:
He was a researcher in the Southern Cross. He studied the Bioroids

Cochran, Prof. Miles:
Another Professor of the Southern Cross, Researching Bioroids

Someone beside Rabid knows about these 2 guys. Rabid is not gonna Lie, just to prove a point, he has a bit more integrity then that.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

Sure that is episode 31 only one I remember seeing a wreck in was ep. "30 - Viva Miriya" and don't remember anything about it being from Earth.

Nope, its clearly an Earth designed warship in #31, most likely either a Nelson-class Destroyer or Ardennes-class Battlecruiser. The Masters ships are nearby and they are viewing the wreckage and comment 'Look what remains of their once proud civilization'. They aint talking about anyone else but Earthlings....since that vessel represents the latest ship of the line.

You're thinking of the Late Model Zentraedi Recon Vessel that Breetai comes across in Viva Miriya.

[Zer0 Kay]

Are you making those scientist up because Sampson Beckett sounds a lot like Sam Beckett and Miles Cochrane (wasn't that the inventor of warp drive?)

No, I did NOT make them up. I watch the series, unlike you, apparently. Reference Danger Zone, Metal Fire and Outsiders and you'll clearly hear the names Sampson Beckett and Miles Cochrane. Sheesh.

http://www.angelfire.com/games5/robotechmod/RTDB1.html

Beckett, Prof. Sampson:
He was a researcher in the Southern Cross. He studied the Bioroids

Cochran, Prof. Miles:
Another Professor of the Southern Cross, Researching Bioroids

Someone beside Rabid knows about these 2 guys. Rabid is not gonna Lie, just to prove a point, he has a bit more integrity then that.

I didn't say he lied, I asked if he made them up, because I thought it was funny how simular the names are to other sci-fi scientist.

[Colonel Wolfe]

I didn't say he lied, I asked if he made them up, because I thought it was funny how simular the names are to other sci-fi scientist.

okay.

Saying "you Lied" and "you made that up" are the Exact Same thing. but i didnt say you said he lied.. i said Rabid would not lie.

Yes, Sci-fi (and Fantasy of the fact) borrows form it self. Cochran from Star Trek Pre-dates Robotech (by over 20 years), and Beckett from Quantem leep post dates Robotech buy 3-4 years, Depends on when Bellisario wrote the pilot.(as i could not find a source of Quanteem leep novels that predates the Pilot).

Beckett isnt a Common last name, but its not Origonal to Sci-fi either.
Cochran may have ben borrowed form Star trek, but thats not the only thing Robotech borrowed form star trek, the "N-terprise" form the Karabaren (Care-bear) Fleet.

[Zer0 Kay]

Which is an interesting commentary on whatsort of morality you want your senior officers to possess.

"War is Hell"
I'd Personaly Like a command staff with the Balls to do what Right to Protect the Peoples of Earth form all Agressors, Froigen and Domestic.

There was a country that thought that all of their upper officers in a special military group had thouse balls...Oh wait that was the German SS!!

Actually, Every American Soilder Swears an other to Protect America form all Agressors, Forgien and Domestic. Its not something expected from just form High command, but of every soilder. I'd honstly Hope every Soilder has the balls to do what is Right to Protect Americs.

I, _________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

I wont Debate the SS with you, Thats a Sure fire way to get the Thread locked. I dont even know why you had to bring it in to the Conversation. You want to compare the ACS to the SS?

No every soldier swears an OATH to protect America from enemies foreign and domestic (I know, I did it. Did you?) and I'm willing to do that, however we also have a responsibility to not follow any unlawful orders. It's expected as part of the bolded area and tought to you throughout Basic Military Training. I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Killing a prisoner of war is NOT a lawful order...unless it's durring an escape, then only by accident, because your supposed to be stopping him from escaping not killing him.

Oh and you realize that physical pain is detrimental to torture it is the anticipation of physical pain that is desired by the interrogator.

No I don't want to argue the ASC is like the SS. I'm saying you are wanting the ASC to be more like the SS.

[Colonel Wolfe]

No every soldier swears an OATH to protect America from enemies foreign and domestic (I know, I did it. Did you?) and I'm willing to do that, however we also have a responsibility to not follow any unlawful orders. It's expected as part of the bolded area and tought to you throughout Basic Military Training. I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Killing a prisoner of war is NOT a lawful order...unless it's durring an escape, then only by accident, because your supposed to be stopping him from escaping not killing him.

Oh and you realize that physical pain is detrimental to torture it is the anticipation of physical pain that is desired by the interrogator.

No I don't want to argue the ASC is like the SS. I'm saying you are wanting the ASC to be more like the SS.

Killing a Traitor is Perfetly Legal, so is Killing a person who you run in battle, and many other thing.

Zor Prime would have been Killed if he was Found to be a Human Soilder who was Piloting a Bioroid. Thats not an Unlawful Order.

I never Implied thats they should eb like the SS, you Mis read what i said.

Emmerson (Like many officers in robotech) Wanted to pussyfoot around with an Aregssive enemy, Allwoing there soilders walk freely in you Bases, join your Squads and Spy on your Army.
Leonard gets put donw and called a Biggot for Following orders and Putting an Agressive stance with an Enemy who Attacked First, with out Provocation and with no regard for the "Lesser Race" in their way.

Honstly Torture and even Killing Zor Prime would not have been Against any Laws, as he was not Human, and not entitled to any Human-Right as a POW. The Master them selves took humans prisinor and commited any sort of Atrosities on them.

How you read my comments is Simmiler to me doing this:

No every soldier swears an OATH to protect America from enemies foreign and domestic

I'm Sure French Soilders dont Swear to defend the United states.

But honstly: EVERYONE has derailed this Topic, and we get back to Protoculture canisters being used in all 3 eras?

[Zer0 Kay]

Sure that is episode 31 only one I remember seeing a wreck in was ep. "30 - Viva Miriya" and don't remember anything about it being from Earth.

Nope, its clearly an Earth designed warship in #31, most likely either a Nelson-class Destroyer or Ardennes-class Battlecruiser. The Masters ships are nearby and they are viewing the wreckage and comment 'Look what remains of their once proud civilization'. They aint talking about anyone else but Earthlings....since that vessel represents the latest ship of the line.

You're thinking of the Late Model Zentraedi Recon Vessel that Breetai comes across in Viva Miriya.

OMFG (excuse me if that offends your sensibilities, didn't think it would since you already took his name in vain) you have got to be kidding. I thought you were talking about the ship wreck being in SC. If it's in Macross they didn't have interstellar travel until the SDF crashed so how the heck could the wreck be out there? Not to mention that the SDF is the only one that had fold capabilities. Your response above is full of wording that says your making assumptions. It could be from some other race that the RT Masters defeated. Assumptions go both ways, the human race doesn't have controll over the design style of another race's ships. :sarcasm: "No you can't build it like ours that's our design, see it's pattented." :sarcasm:

That ship could be from any race. Oh wait you think that there is only Human, RT Masters, Zentradi and Invid (even without the Sentinel Races) there could have been other races. I figure the RT Masters are most likely visiting one of their old conquests after all if it was a Terran ship they wouldn't be saying 'Look what remains of their once proud civilization'
for a single freaking wreck out in BF nowhere.

Oh BTW where did you get the Nelson-class Destroyer or Ardennes-class Battlecruiser from? It wasn't on RT.com and I thought you guys said if it wasn't on RT.com it was wrong. Ah wait those were ship names not classes.

[Zer0 Kay]

Gee you know it's funny I go to the Official RT website RT.com and says that well here

'the Army of the Southern Cross (made up of elite troops from the United Earth Forces)'

In otherwords they are a branch they'd actually be less than a branch they'd be like special forces command.

Your pulling too much from the SDC:SC. Where the SC is the entire military force it seems.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Gee you know it's funny I go to the Official RT website RT.com and says that well here

'the Army of the Southern Cross (made up of elite troops from the United Earth Forces)'

In otherwords they are a branch they'd actually be less than a branch they'd be like special forces command.

Your pulling too much from the SDC:SC. Where the SC is the entire military force it seems.

AND i'll ask again, WHAT Dose this ahve to do with Protoculture Canisters?

[Zer0 Kay]

Gee you know it's funny I go to the Official RT website RT.com and says that well here

'the Army of the Southern Cross (made up of elite troops from the United Earth Forces)'

In otherwords they are a branch they'd actually be less than a branch they'd be like special forces command.

Your pulling too much from the SDC:SC. Where the SC is the entire military force it seems.

AND i'll ask again, WHAT Dose this ahve to do with Protoculture Canisters?

Um...When did you ask that before?? Uh noth...Oh yeah the argument that PC cans were limited to REF equipment and since by RT.com they aren't even a branch but a command then it is still probable that the REF could:
A) be a seperate branch of the UEF or an entirely different government entity.
B) have exclusive access to various technologies.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

OMFG (excuse me if that offends your sensibilities, didn't think it would since you already took his name in vain) you have got to be kidding. I thought you were talking about the ship wreck being in SC. If it's in Macross they didn't have interstellar travel until the SDF crashed so how the heck could the wreck be out there? Not to mention that the SDF is the only one that had fold capabilities. Your response above is full of wording that says your making assumptions. It could be from some other race that the RT Masters defeated. Assumptions go both ways, the human race doesn't have controll over the design style of another race's ships. :sarcasm: "No you can't build it like ours that's our design, see it's pattented." :sarcasm:

I said eps. #31 you nimrod. That happens to take place 2 fulls years and change AFTER the Zentraedi Rain of Death.

That ship could be from any race.

No it couldn't. I has the same reaction engine mountings as found on the Nelson-class Destroyer and Ardennes-class Battlecruisers.

I figure the RT Masters are most likely visiting one of their old conquests after all if it was a Terran ship they wouldn't be saying 'Look what remains of their once proud civilization' for a single freaking wreck out in BF nowhere.

Gah, 20 light years from Earth? Are you absolutely nuts? The Masters came from inside the recesses of another galaxy (probably chasing the Invid, so most likely the Large or Small Magellanic Cloud) as PER DIALOGUE FROM EPS. #29 The Robotech Masters.

Oh BTW where did you get the Nelson-class Destroyer or Ardennes-class Battlecruiser from? It wasn't on RT.com and I thought you guys said if it wasn't on RT.com it was wrong. Ah wait those were ship names not classes.

Those are the ship names I gave them when I submitted the files to Tom Bateman, the Head of Continuity at Harmony Gold. I was asked to help with the Infopedia.

[Jefffar]

Hear that? I think it's a thread getting derailed.



CRASH!