Mckinney's Errors

[Colonel Wolfe]

http://scarmyofone.000k2.com/scross/mckinney.htm
This is some work i've been doing comparing the Novels Timeline to the Series & Source information. Mckinney Tells a good story, but is completly off on many points. many places it looks as if they did not watch any of the Animation, or use Maceks notes.

[Colonel Wolfe]

your just realising it now? where the heck have you been?

I've Never read the novels, so i had no clue that Mckinney Never watched the show while writing them.

[Colonel Wolfe]

They (not He; McKinney is a pen name for two authors)

I know its a "They" but one of them is dead, so the Remaining "He" is at fault.

clearly did watch the show, based on little visual details blown up in neat ways throughout the novels, but they also clearly disregarded it, altering conversations, lines, and plot as they saw fit to try to create something that would be interesting to read in novel format.

Intresting to Read... but not related to Robotech... Kinda like a Mel Gibson "history" film... sure braveheart was good... but in history the Princess was only 6 when willam wallace died.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Kinda like a Mel Gibson "history" film... sure braveheart was good... but in history the Princess was only 6 when willam wallace died.

Are you saying that Braveheart was a pedophile ??

not only a Pedo Phile.... but incredinly well indowled... as he was in Scotland.. and she in France during his war with England.

[Colonel Wolfe]

My point was that deliberate changes of this sort should not be considered errors in the way you seem to describe them. Discrepencies, sure. But their being wrong is purely in the eye of the beholder, seeing as how they effectively rebuilt Robotech from the ground up. Ie they aren't "wrong" relative to their own body of work.

Which basically means Wrong. Mckinney would re-write history to have the South win the Civil war... in his "canon" its right... but still worng compared to the Origonal events/source.

[Jefffar]

Meh, there are very few novelizations that remain absolutly true to their on-screen progenitors.

Some people use the McKinny novels when they play (I personally like the origin story of the Southern Cross and the idea of an internal friction within the EG. it gives me lots of oppourtunities for unique campaigns), others don't.

I personally realized he was out there when he had the nascant army of Southern Cross assault Zentreadi Insurgents at the Great Pyramid by using blimps.

[Jefffar]

Well, if you read the novels, the RDF high command were also evil and corrupt. The only good guy in the mess seems to have been Rolf Emmerson.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Point [xxiv], regarding Louie and the Nichols Drive. I have the distinct impression that some comic somewhere that I missed decided to make Louie into a bonafied genius with ties to the Robotech R&D center in Japan, or a similar power, who was then piloting a hovertank becuse it was the only way he could get to Monument City in time for the Robotech Master attack... and the novel tried to rationalize and expand upon that. I have little evidence outside of what I skimmed over recently in Before the Invid Storm.

Eh, thats Secondary Source, even less credible then the novels. Louis is a smart guy, but no Drive Engineer... his only on screen invention is the Pupil-pistol, which he made for a Video game. (by the OSM, both Dana and Louie were hackers... Dana is put in the brig for hacking in ot the mainframe to give her self more vacation time)

[Colonel Wolfe]

Honstly, the Whole idea of Making Villans of any of the Humans is stupid, unless they have Villanous traits on screen, its safe to assume they have good intentions in their hearts for humanity.

Thou Leonard and Emmerson are both equaly wrong on how to prosocute the war on the Masters... they both have the best intrest of earth in mind.
(but Emmerson still allowed a spy free roam on the planet)

McKinney's Problem is he Tried to Fix something that was not broken. Removing the sentinels, Robotech Flows form one era to the next with no problem... adding the Sentinels... they created the Mess that McKinney tried to Fix... but made a mess out of. (Which turns Lancer, Breetia and many other Characters in to Liars by the Series Dialog)

[Colonel Wolfe]

Secondary, yes, but where else did the novels get the epilogue regarding Wolff (novel spelling) not showing up for the First Battle of Reflex Point and the schism between him and Major Carpenter that it caused if not from... the Invid War comics! I do believe the comics came first, and a secondary source can influence a primary source.

Ummm... None of that happend in Robotech. Wolfe may have know on Carpenter... but Carpenter Served on the Tokogawa for 15 years. Its why I've never read any of the novels, they want to remake Robotech in to something thats is in direct conflict with the Show.

Robotech: Invid War #1-18
Released: 1992-93
Robotech: Invid War: Aftermath #1-6
Released: 1993-94
Which only Predate the Last 3 novels,
19 Zent Rebelion:
20 Master Gambit:
21 Before the invid storm:

A secondary source that contradicts the Primary source, can be discounted. The Novels acomplish this in many places. so yes, it can influence it.. but it cannot disagree with the primary source.

on a Side note, the Novles 13-21 are considred a non-cano, and are not part of Robotech.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Honstly, the Whole idea of Making Villans of any of the Humans is stupid,

I've always held the opinion that humans make better villains than any alien ever could.

yes, when they are written to be so. Edward is a good Villan, as the Scripts for Robotech II made him so. But no one else in the Series is really a Villan, besides Wolfe and Aryes... and alot of the others in New gen.
how do people here repsond when i point out Breetai Purposfully Mislead the Earth Government? or that Team Bernard are Traitors? or Rick Hunter was Willing to Murder the entire earth to stop the invid, after just Fighting to save every Sentinels World?

[Colonel Wolfe]

Perhaps you misunderstood. I mean the comics influenced the direction of the novels.

Sure, the Comics influenced the Last 3 novels... but its all Grabage... even the Yunn Comics are crap. its why i'm sad that Tommy has any influence on the new Series... as he had in one comic, a Zent Cruiser crashing on Earth in the mid-90's.
"Sir, a 500M Long UFO just crashed in the Atlantic."
"so? that is way to small to be used for anything... we'll wait for something bigger"

[Colonel Wolfe]

All garbage? You haven't even read the novels. You seem to be basing your opinion upon the biased opinions of others and bad experiences with poor role players.

Yep, no reason to Look much deeper then the Timeline to see how bad the Novels are. if i wanted to Read 21 books that are named after my Faveriate Show, Id Like them to actually Agree with the stuff in it. Addition to the Story is fine, but Contradicting the show is bogus.
I'm not gonna pick up a Startrek novel with Light-sabers in it. and not gonna bother to read books with Thinking caps, Shapings, and completely Bogus timeline all of which disagree with the Series as Aired.

Wheres the Poor Role players come form?

[Colonel Wolfe]

Uh, I think that was from a previous Macross related thread.

Quite a few of the questions you posed in your timeline notes were in fact answered elegantly by the novels, but I'm not in a position to provide those answers since I'm separated from my collection at this moment.

some of them cannot be... if the Regis invaded in 2033, Scott lands later... Meets lancer, who encounted the Invid 3 years before... he Encountred the Invid before they invaded earth, in the Middle of the Masters assult on earth...

[Colonel Wolfe]

I don't have the right book on me, but chances are that the McKinney Bros. would have caught that... and editted the part where "three years" was mentioned. The novels are farely self consistent.

so they Ommited a stated fact fomr the Series... to make the novels flow better.
they Include Lunk's "1 year ago" comment
remove Lancer's 3 years away from Carla(and being a cross dresser).
Carpenter's aide's comments about "our home for 15 years"

"Lancer recalls a time three years ago when he was trapped in the middle of an Invid raid. Even the townspeople were helping the aliens to hunt down freedom fighters. Lancer’s rebellious ways were too well known for the youth to avoid capture. It was Carla who had the inspiration to disguise Lancer as a woman in order to escape. Thus the identity of Yellow Dancer was created."

This even implies he was on Earth long before 3 years. it even implies some time since the invasion, as the Towns people were helping the invid... it would take some time for the Invid to create a Loyal human network. also Carla made Yellow, so for Yellow dancer to be so famous to be know in cities in South america and New york...

[glitterboy2098]

Point [xxiv], regarding Louie and the Nichols Drive. I have the distinct impression that some comic somewhere that I missed decided to make Louie into a bonafied genius with ties to the Robotech R&D center in Japan, or a similar power, who was then piloting a hovertank becuse it was the only way he could get to Monument City in time for the Robotech Master attack... and the novel tried to rationalize and expand upon that. I have little evidence outside of what I skimmed over recently in Before the Invid Storm.

Eh, thats Secondary Source, even less credible then the novels. Louis is a smart guy, but no Drive Engineer... his only on screen invention is the Pupil-pistol, which he made for a Video game. (by the OSM, both Dana and Louie were hackers... Dana is put in the brig for hacking in ot the mainframe to give her self more vacation time)

actually, a list of his onscreen successes:

figured out the masters power distribution network (unknown if he knew what he was talking about, or if he just saw something the others missed.)

built a helmet camera for the recon into the crashed mothership (debatable if this was invention, or just bodging*)

recognised android parts (could just be really good memory)

figured out that bioroids use a neural interface type control system

claims to have programmed the arcade game (could just have been his mod of it.)

built the pupil pistol (though apache pilots have had such things since the late 80's, so it could just be bodging*)

modified a grenade in an attempt to take out the master computer core.


(*Bodging: jerry-rigging, improvising, using something for a role it was not intended.)

[Zer0 Kay]

Meh, there are very few novelizations that remain absolutly true to their on-screen progenitors.

Some people use the McKinny novels when they play (I personally like the origin story of the Southern Cross and the idea of an internal friction within the EG. it gives me lots of oppourtunities for unique campaigns), others don't.

I personally realized he was out there when he had the nascant army of Southern Cross assault Zentreadi Insurgents at the Great Pyramid by using blimps.

Yeah - just look at the Jurrasic Park Franchize... shesh.

Uh you realize that is the otherway around, right? Jeffar is talking about books that are based off the movie. Not Books that movies are based off of. Difference? Yeah!

MboB-Movie tries to cover as much as possible of the book often requiring many scenes from the book to be cut out in order to fit within the required 2hrs of screen time.

BboM-Book takes what was shown in the movie and has to modify and alter it in order to expand upon the movie so that it can be a novel and not a short story.