Where does Rifts rank?

Zer0 Kay · Unread post by **Zer0 Kay** » Sat Dec 25, 2004 5:51 pm

Palladium Games are first. I use them all as Rifts Dimensions. If I want to play a RT game then it is RT (which was my first). TSR used to be my second but with the coming of the WoC and then Hasbro it has been religated to a class akin to leprocy (sp?). I still play the older no longer produced games though. R. Talsorian is second now and was tied with TSR. I hope your not actually looking for an incomplete list of my gaming experience...are you?

Killer Cyborg · Sat Dec 25, 2004 10:07 pm

I'm addicted to Rifts, but the many, many problems with the system have given me a Clockwork Orange style aversion to the game.
I still love the setting, but I can't bring myself to play/run it anymore.

CyCo · Unread post by **CyCo** » Sun Dec 26, 2004 12:26 am

Another 'punker here....

So, how are we chombattas?

;)

BTW, have you guys checked out the news on the R.Tal boards??

Sureshot · Unread post by **Sureshot** » Sun Dec 26, 2004 12:35 am

1 D&D 3.5. Love the rules. Easy to find players and I love the FR background.

2. Hero System One of the best systems out there. Allows you do everything and all the rules needed are in the main rule book.

3. None now but probably either Earthdawn or Torg 2.0.

With Palladium ranking a 8 or 9.

MrTwist · Unread post by **MrTwist** » Sun Dec 26, 2004 4:46 am

Let's see.

Amber DRPG
Shadowrun
HU2
Mage: The Ascension
Demon: The Fallen
Marvel Super Heroes
Champions
Rifts
D&D 3rd Edition
Cyberpunk

Can't think of anything else. That's in order from my fav to my least. There's a few I haven't played that I want to though(other games not on the list). Only reason why 3rd edition is there is because it's easy to get a game going, even though I think WotC did a crappy job on it.

I'm hoping more stuff comes out for Amber. Phage Press sold it off, so maybe the new owners will get some new books out one of these days.

Comrade Corsarius · Sun Dec 26, 2004 9:05 am

Tricky.....

1) Robotech: The only system that I can see where MDC works as it should, the skills list doesn't take up half the book, and the only one where the palladium combat system seems to work at all. My favourite because it all does work as it's supposed to and you can still tell a good story with it!

2) Rifts: For all that we complain about it, It ranks at #2 for the post-post-apocolyptic storyline, and the magic/technology combinations. You can pull nearly any genre from here and it's still a great yarn. I love it, even if it has now outgrown the rules it began with and has become a slavering beast, consuming GMs and Players alike in it's tangle of 'uh, which rule are we playing tonight' questions.

3) Heroes Unlimited. Love it. Utterly and completely love it. Powers unlimited #1 and #2 just improved on a great game. You have to overlook some things (as you have to in all RPGs!) but it's awesome and I'd have to say that it switches places with Robotech on regular occasions.

4) Just to show I'm not a total Palladium junkie, my two other favourites are Godlike (unfortunately not everyone is a superhero and a WWII junkie like myself and no-one wants to be bored by history lectures. This one has stayed on the shelf a whiles, alas), The Red Dwarf RPG (I love the simplicity of the character creation and the playing system. It's quite clever really, you could even adapt Rifts to it if you wanted to), and Nobilus (Nobilus is best played after several drinks of your favourite alcoholic beverage. It enhances the playability and turns their version of the GM, 'the hollyhock god' into something rather tongue-twisting that you just end up giggling about rather a lot without being entirely able to pronounce. Having said that, when sober, it's a rather good game, although a little confusing in it's 'diceless' mechanics).

CyCo · Unread post by **CyCo** » Sun Dec 26, 2004 9:46 am

Zachary The First wrote:
CyCo wrote:Another 'punker here....

So, how are we chombattas?

BTW, have you guys checked out the news on the R.Tal boards??

Man, I haven't been over that way in some time.... all well & good in Tal-land?

They're still using their old threaded bbs from years ago. Most of the posts tend to lack substance. But then, there hasn't been any new material put out for CP2020 in years.

But, they are starting to make some noise about CP.v3. It's been some time in the comming, but we may just have the latest (Fuzion) version of CP out next year. Apparently they do have a release date, but don't want to announce it yet, just incase it looks like they don't think it will be out on time.

Go over to the R.Tal and check out the News sections, as well as their CP message board. Find the posts by a guy called Woody. He's the head of Tundra Press, and their key distributer (or sumthin...).

dark brandon · Sun Dec 26, 2004 10:22 am

it ranks top 3. I would go with Palladium #1 with Rifts at a close #2 then Nightbane. Depending on BTS 2nd ed. It may bet bumbed down to 3.

Ice Dragon · Unread post by **Ice Dragon** » Sun Dec 26, 2004 1:38 pm

#1 ROBOTECH !!!

#2 Battletech :-)

#3 Rifts

MADMANMIKE · Unread post by **MADMANMIKE** » Sun Dec 26, 2004 2:26 pm

..Boy, Rating these things is surprisingly difficult for me. I look above my computer at the 5ft long shelf covered with Palladium books from side to side, then further to it's top with representatives of a handful of other publishers games, and see that rating the games is going to have every Palladium in the top 10 (except Robotech, never could get into that).

..So...

1. Rifts
2. HackMaster (if you liked ADnD, GET THIS SYSTEM!!!)
3. CyberPunk 2020
4. Palladium Fantasy
5. Heroes Unlimited
6. DnD 3.0

..Now this is skewed with experience. Although I've been GMing all Palladium games since '88, my actual play experience is only in the past 5 years, and consists almost entirely of CyberPunk 2020 and DnD 3.0; I've played in Rifts and Palladium Fantasy in pbp games, and Heroes Unlimited, but not as often as I'd like. So if I had more play time instead of GM time I know they'd be on the top of my list, but I don't.

-Mike <8]

Guest · Unread post by **Guest** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 7:14 am

N&SS
Hu2 (these are just about a Tie depending on my mood)
Robotech
Rifts (though I have no books left)
Phase World
Palladium
Shadowrun
D&D

Brian Manning · Mon Dec 27, 2004 3:11 pm

I voted top 3...here's my list

1. Heroes Unlimited 2e
2. All Flesh Must be Eaten (Eden Studios)
3. Rifts

I would prefer to run them all equally, but my group prefers the games in that order. If I were to start playing again (instead of GMing all the time), I would order the list the same as they do as well, but as a GM Rifts gives me a ton of variety and story ideas with the same group, but All Flesh is easier to run than Rifts, and HU is a blast to run (there's variety, and it's not to hard to run).

MADMANMIKE · Unread post by **MADMANMIKE** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 11:12 pm

Zachary The First wrote:
MADMANMIKE wrote:..6. DnD 3.0

-Mike <8]

3.0 or 3.5?

..3.0.

..I'm not impressed with some of the changes in 3.5.

..Hackmaster has become a passion for me. My good gamer has been DMing ADnD since he was 8, about 18 years now, so he's walking me through the finer points of the system as we go along.

..The only game where you could end up a double amputee in character creation.

-Mike >8]

Cardiac · Unread post by **Cardiac** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 3:09 am

Top 5

1) Mutants and Masterminds (Freedom city setting rocks - and the system is great too)

2) Battletech/Mechwarrior (the most detailed and impressive sci-fi setting I have come across)

3) D&D 3.X (especially Forgotten Realms)

4) Heroes Unlimited (more for the CS/GI setting - there are better game systems out there)

5) Rifts (again, more for the setting than anything else)

As you can tell, I am attracted more to setting rather than systems, and if I find a system that I like, I convert a particular setting to it (for instance I have converted HU to M&M for my own personal use and games).

Mike Taylor · Unread post by **Mike Taylor** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 4:46 am

Rifts has fallen out of my Top Five over the last decade, mainly due to some major burnout with the line about four years ago. I still enjoy it, but other things have caught my attention.

Current Top Five:
1. Armageddon-- CJ Carella's game about role-playing in the End Times predicted by many religions around the world. The battle is bigger than that of good versus evil, if you can believe that.
2. All Flesh Must Be Eaten-- A "generic" system that cleverly disguises itself as a zombie survival horror game. It uses the same mechanics as Armageddon. So far, it has genre books for pulp action, martial arts & hong kong gun-fu flicks, westerns, wrestling (no, I'm not kidding), and now-- thanks to Jason Vey-- fantasy.
3. WitchCraft-- The past of the Armageddon setting, this game is a sort of modern horror/dark fantasy setting in the vein of the X-Files.
4. Systems Failure-- Certainly a forgotten classic. If any of you haven't laid your hands on it, please do. It's a lot of fun if you don't take it seriously.
5. D6 Star Wars-- One of my longest running campaigns, next to when I got into Rifts. The mechanics are so straightforward I can still generate a character off the top of my head without cracking open the rulebook to look things up. I hope to play this again some day.

Colonel Wolfe · Tue Dec 28, 2004 4:53 am

1) D&D 3.X (being there were no serious system changes between the "revision", i dont see it as a real revision at all... heck to play rifts we have more corrections and house rules then the # of changes form 3.0 to 3.5)
2)Were-Wolf the Apokolypes
3)Robotech, w/ some serious corrections to the Mecha of all 3 eras. (and the removal of the Sentinels... but Keeping Lancers Rockers)
4) Rifts (Thou i dont play is anymore ... but own 90% of the books)
5) Shadow run (love the game... a bit broken... only own the main book.)
6) Earthdawn (Obsidomen Rock!!!... bad pun...)
7) The rest of WW's Old WOD stuff.

Hackmaster/AD&D

but these all fall far behind EQ 1 & 2...

Colonel Wolfe · Tue Dec 28, 2004 8:11 pm

Illithid13 wrote:
Colonel Wolfe wrote:1) D&D 3.X (being there were no serious system changes between the "revision", i dont see it as a real revision at all... heck to play rifts we have more corrections and house rules then the # of changes form 3.0 to 3.5)

Yea, 3.5 was just a WotC marketing gimic to get people to buy more books...

inccorect, it was no more a "Gimic" then HU revised was a "Gimic", It was a Much needed System Adjustment... it fixed minor system flaws and Balance issues, amny i had found ion the years i played the game, and adjusted over time.
Actually... the Tiem between 3.0 and 3.5 was about the same as HU-1st and HU-revised both about 3 years... Man Palladiums Evil marketing tactics with HU to get people to buy more books!

Killer Cyborg · Tue Dec 28, 2004 8:45 pm

Colonel Wolfe wrote:
Illithid13 wrote:
Colonel Wolfe wrote:1) D&D 3.X (being there were no serious system changes between the "revision", i dont see it as a real revision at all... heck to play rifts we have more corrections and house rules then the # of changes form 3.0 to 3.5)

Yea, 3.5 was just a WotC marketing gimic to get people to buy more books...

inccorect, it was no more a "Gimic" then HU revised was a "Gimic", It was a Much needed System Adjustment... it fixed minor system flaws and Balance issues, amny i had found ion the years i played the game, and adjusted over time.
Actually... the Tiem between 3.0 and 3.5 was about the same as HU-1st and HU-revised both about 3 years... Man Palladiums Evil marketing tactics with HU to get people to buy more books!

Agreed.
People just tend to be bitter that D20 is so popular, so they latch onto anything they think they know and try to use it to attack the game.
In reality, Palladium could and should learn a LOT about how to make a good game from watching how D20 is run.

Compare the two techniques:

D20- After 3 years, they updated the system to eliminate the bugs, fix mistakes, and balance things more.

Rifts- After 10+ years, they still haven't fixed half the problems with the main book. Instead of releasing a coherent updating of the system, they randomly sprinkle new rules and changes to the old rules into new books here or there, making it so that you have to search through your entire library of Rifts books any time you need to check a rule (unless you happen to remember which of the 30+ books it's in). Instead of forcing players to buy a couple of new core books if they want to keep up with the new rules, Palladium instead forces the players to buy every Rifts product put out (barring T-shirts, the card game, and other novelties) if they want to keep up with the new rules.

Sentinel · Unread post by **Sentinel** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 11:53 am

I put Rift's in my top 10.
I would say the Heroes Unlimited is my #1, followed by Ninjas and Superspies, a combination of NightBane and Beyond the Supernatural, the TSR Marvel Superheroes (the RPG, not the card games), GURPS, Champions 3rd edition, Rifts, Chaos Earth, Palladium Fantasy, and 1st edition Star Wars.
More or less.

bigwhitehound · Thu Dec 30, 2004 10:26 am

I like the Rifts RPG over all others, but I do play Nightbane & Heroes Unlimited, from time to time. When playing Rifts I normally play in the Phase World Dimension.

Chuck Lang · Unread post by **Chuck Lang** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 1:34 pm

My favorites right now are:

1. Palladium System: I'm going to lump Rifts, BtS, Nightbane, and Heroes Unlimited into this category. I mainly play Rifts, but for the setting and not the rules (I wrote my own 76 page rulebook over the past year that I just finished over the holidays).

2. BtVS and Angel (the Uni System): Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel, ah yes, gotta have my Buffy.

3. Fireborn: Once you get the book of errata, the game becomes quite fun.

All D20 products have fallen from grace for me. I used to be a "fan" not a "big fan" just a "fan" (and in quotes because I was pretty much forced into it because that is all that my friends would play at the time). I have grown tired of the system, which has caused me to grow tired with playing in any D20 based campaign. I will only run non-D20 campaigns now. Perhaps this will change in the future, but it is not all that likely as of right now. Part of the fun of role-playing is changing the system and learning new rules.

Dead Boy · Unread post by **Dead Boy** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 5:48 am

Though I've played many games, I hold two in highest esteem. Those would be Rifts and Champions (Hero). I love Rifts because of its rich and lovingly detailed environment, despite its lacking in mechanics. Truly it is a setting second to none. But I also place Hero's Champoins just as high because I absolutely love their game mechanics, and their setting is evolving pretty well too under the DOJ crew.

Vrykolas2k · Unread post by **Vrykolas2k** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 3:28 pm

Rifts is first.
Talislanta is a fairly close second.
Third... hmm... I guess the D20 D&D? Hard to say...

Rex · Unread post by **Rex** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 5:08 pm

Rifts is the only game that makes me want to come back for more. It pains me to make this list...

1 - DND D20 3.5. Not a bad system, I resent the low power levels of the characters. I really don't understand the system, to be honest. I'm into it just because I can only find gamers that are willing to play it. Actually, I am in the process of converting some of them into Rifts...

2 - Rifts! I lump all PB into this. Sorry, but the other games are just supplements at this point in time. I love this game!

3 - WOD: Old School. Had a lot of fun with this game. I once ran a Sabbat game that lasted a year (the 2nd ed. type) It's fun making players scared of themselves. I've also had a tremendous amount of fun with Mage: The Ascension. That game truly had no limits.
I think the newest ed. has finally put a death knell in WW for me...

4 - Ars Magica - Never played it, always wanted to. Great concepts, not just in the world, but the system as well. Never could get a group that could pull it off.

5 - Star Wars D6. Statistically impossible feats in such a short amount of time. The system needed work, it didn't deserve to be D20'd.

6 - GURPS. Had a few campaigns that lasted a while using this system. Does it still exist? I was really hoping it's over detailed rules and crappy artwork didn't kill it completely.

I've left out a bunch of games I've tried, or read. Those are the ones that will always stick out for me.

Sentinel · Unread post by **Sentinel** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 5:18 pm

Last I knew, GURPS was still hanging in there.
If you're the kind of GM/Player who needs a reality based rule, or just a rule in general for any concievable situation, then GURPS is the way to go.
However, you will sink a small fortune into books...

Colonel Wolfe · Fri Dec 31, 2004 7:46 pm

Sentinel wrote:Last I knew, GURPS was still hanging in there.
If you're the kind of GM/Player who needs a reality based rule, or just a rule in general for any concievable situation, then GURPS is the way to go.
However, you will sink a small fortune into books...

(remmebers the 600 bucks he blew on Rifts books alone)
Gurps 4th is out i think....

Colonel Wolfe · Sat Jan 01, 2005 12:16 am

Zachary The First wrote:
Colonel Wolfe wrote:
Sentinel wrote:Last I knew, GURPS was still hanging in there.
If you're the kind of GM/Player who needs a reality based rule, or just a rule in general for any concievable situation, then GURPS is the way to go.
However, you will sink a small fortune into books...

(remmebers the 600 bucks he blew on Rifts books alone)
Gurps 4th is out i think....

It is, but I've been hearing bad feedback on it. Of course, Rifts 3rd was cluttered up. You all know I'm not much for munchkining, but that system was making it hard to do a character any different or more powerful or harder to kill than your average slob.

Zach... are you from the Future?

Colonel Wolfe · Sat Jan 01, 2005 1:17 am

Zachary The First wrote:Argh!!! GURPS 3rd! GURPS 3rd! Sorry, we were having that discussion on game mechanics and revisions....

The New Year is not off to a good start, my friend.

Nice Try Future man.... now hand over Rifts second ed, so we may save KS time writing it.....

Colonel Wolfe · Sat Jan 01, 2005 1:19 am

Zachary The First wrote:
Colonel Wolfe wrote:
Zachary The First wrote:Argh!!! GURPS 3rd! GURPS 3rd! Sorry, we were having that discussion on game mechanics and revisions....

The New Year is not off to a good start, my friend.
Nice Try Future man.... now hand over Rifts second ed, so we may save KS time writing it.....

Sorry, but only one of us has the Flux Capacitor. See you in 2013.

Rifts second ed.... out in 2013... a month after the Wolrd ends...

Colonel Wolfe · Sat Jan 01, 2005 1:23 am

Zachary The First wrote:
Colonel Wolfe wrote:
Zachary The First wrote:
Colonel Wolfe wrote:
Zachary The First wrote:Argh!!! GURPS 3rd! GURPS 3rd! Sorry, we were having that discussion on game mechanics and revisions....

The New Year is not off to a good start, my friend.
Nice Try Future man.... now hand over Rifts second ed, so we may save KS time writing it.....

Sorry, but only one of us has the Flux Capacitor. See you in 2013.

Rifts second ed.... out in 2013... a month after the Wolrd ends...

Actually, it won't....but a lot of people thought it was going to when seven Palladium Fantasy products were released in 2012.

I'm pretty Sure that That is the 7th seal... 7 PFRPG books in one year...

maasenstodt · Unread post by **maasenstodt** » Sat Jan 01, 2005 1:51 am

Colonel Wolfe wrote:I'm pretty Sure that That is the 7th seal... 7 PFRPG books in one year...

So where exactly does Mechanoid Space fit into the apocalyptic calander?

maasenstodt · Unread post by **maasenstodt** » Sat Jan 01, 2005 2:29 am

Zachary The First wrote:I believe that will be a result, and not the cause, of the Apocalypse. I can't think of any force stronger to bring it to pass.

Fair enough.

Incidently, Rifts is somewhere between 5-10 out of my favorite games. In high school, I guess 11 years back (yikes! :eek:

), it was easily number one. Of course, that was before most people that I was around had access to anything asides from the main book and SB1. Those were the days...

Nowadays, I think the only Palladium games that might still make my top 5 are Systems Failure and Mechanoids. I'm finding anymore that what works best for my gaming style and group is generally easy on the rules, with either a generic or lightly detailed setting, and an old school feel. A slightly updated version of the original Mechanoids game that I use has all three of those things. Systems Failure rates pretty well also, especially in the latter two criteria.

Rifts, on the other hand, has lost ground in all three areas over the years, becoming rather bloated in my mind. The ingenuity behind Rifts means that I'll occasionally pull it out for a one-off game simply using the core books, but more than that and I'd probably just get frustrated. I spent about 5 years trying to come to grips with my increasing frustration with Rifts. Now that it's behind me, I'm done with it. :-D

I couldn't put together a definative list, but I'll add that EarthAD, Star Wars (D6), and OD&D probably round out my top 5, with Palladium also represented by After the Bomb and Robotech being on the cusp of my top 10.

TechnoGothic · Unread post by **TechnoGothic** » Sat Jan 01, 2005 8:56 pm

Zachary The First wrote:OK, just seeing if we're all as self-hating as we have a rep for....

Whatever our postings on here, where does Rifts rate among your favorite RPGs?

Also, if it is in your top 3, what are your other faves? I'm curious to see how many WW adherents, Blade Runner fans, etc, we have in comparison.

FYI, for me, Rifts is ranked 2d. Palladium Fantasy is first, with RT/BTS tied in a Gordian knot for 3d.

Not in any order...Top Three

Old STORYTELLER systems, not the nWoD stuff.
Palladium Books RPGs - ALL
Unisystem as a Generic rules set.

then
Cyberpunk 2020/Cybergeneration
Fuzion - BGC:2032
MechWarrior 3rdEd.
AD&D - DarkSun, Council of Wyrms

I love to play Cyborgs

So Palladium and Cyberpunk rank very high to me.
PB needs to do more Weapon/Gadgets focused books like the Old Chrome Books for CP2020...Just to make it feel like your Shopping for the stuff better...

Lt Gargoyle · Unread post by **Lt Gargoyle** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 2:11 pm

1 Robotech
2 Rifts
3 AD&D 2nd edition though i hve not played since they sold out to Wotc and hasbro. I stopped buying thier game system and any new product by them. except for toys.

I use all the other Palladium games with rifts. And i often use game material from others systems to give me ideas and ships, castle, and other story back ground. after all why not use the thousands of dollors of gaming matieral to enhance your gaming experience?

Colonel Wolfe · Sun Jan 02, 2005 3:26 pm

Lt Gargoyle wrote: 3 AD&D 2nd edition though i hve not played since they sold out to Wotc and hasbro. I stopped buying thier game system and any new product by them. except for toys.

"Sold out" is not quite correct....
TSR went bankrupt due to pissing off their fans for about 10 years, Selling sub-par products for 30-40$ (best was a 98pg Soft cover book for 34$).
WOTC bought TSR, and Continued to publish under the 2nd Ed. Titels, While working w/ EGG and others to Make 3rd.
Hasbro wanting to get its hand on Pokemon rights, bought out Wotc, for its Pokemon CCG & Magic:TG. Hasbro unimpresed by the Phenomoenal Sales rates to the 3rd products Threatned to Cancel D&D (The 3.0 Psionics Hand book sold out its 70,000 copy Print run in 2 months... Hasbro was unimpressed, as they Sell 100,000 copies of Monoploy a Month)

Honslty I cant see how peopel Liked TSR & 2nd ed so much, They were the Biggest Price gougers in history, and cared nothign for their Customers.

Palladium games stays in my Top 10, only beacuse they dont go out of their way to Rip off people, Thou having to buy another copy of Fed of Magic(the Revised one) will bug me alot.

maasenstodt · Unread post by **maasenstodt** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 7:02 pm

Colonel Wolfe wrote:Honslty I cant see how peopel Liked TSR & 2nd ed so much, They were the Biggest Price gougers in history, and cared nothign for their Customers.

Palladium games stays in my Top 10, only beacuse they dont go out of their way to Rip off people, Thou having to buy another copy of Fed of Magic(the Revised one) will bug me alot.

The old TSR stuff was terrific. My Moldvay, Gamma World and Star Frontiers boxed sets still hold places of pride in my collection. The Gazetteers set the standard as far as I'm concerned for describing a campaign setting. Even some of the later releases, such as the OD&D Rules Cyclopedia and the two iterations of the Buck Rogers RPG (XXVc and High Adventure Cliffhangers) were superb products. And while I can't vouch for all of the AD&D 2nd Ed. materials, a couple of their sourcebooks still get a lot of use by myself due to their excellence: Creative Campaigning and The Complete Book of Villains.

On the whole, TSR gave me just as many or more fun nights of gaming than Palladium has managed. The prices of the products that I bought from them were always reasonable, and when the quality is such that I still get them back out just for the joy of reading them some 20 years later, I can't help but have some attachment.

Carter · Unread post by **Carter** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 2:45 am

#1 Rifts
#2 BTS
#3 if push comes to shove D&D

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Where does Rifts rank?

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