What do you think of the Eastern territory

[gaby]

Tell me What do you think of the Eastern Territory?

What City do you think can give the Wolfens a Good fight?

[J. Lionheart]

What do I think of them? They'll be crushed under our boot heels, that's what I think of them. Bunch of whiny little racists. Most of them are far too selfish to believably come together with the force needed to repel an organized attack from a powerful nation, and they are comparatively ill-equipped to deal with the terrain and climate.

We would be wise not to attack Haven or Llorn. Both are more than adequately defended, and both could be incorporated in to the Empire as important city states, or even as valuable independant allies.

Haven is Church of Light and Dark... we have no trouble with them. Heck, many Wolfen are members. Even if no Wolfen were of that church, we would not be foolish enough to assault the home city of the world's most powerful religion and draw the ire of those gods. Churches will, by necessity (need of worshippers and constant tithing and protection) assimilate and ingratiate themselves with whoever is around them. They'll fight at first, then join.

Llorn is a mercenary state. Their first concern is Llorn. If we don't attack them, and we eliminate the people that pay them to attack us, who will they look to for jobs? The Wolfen Empire. They are more similar to us than they are to the other Eastern nations; a state that thrives upon and revolves around military conflict. Just as we can see the strategic folly of attacking a place like that, they can see the strategic benefit of joining us.

[lather]

I never been there, but it sounds nice, in that lacking civilisation, outdoorsy sort of way.

[pblackcrow]

I would want Wisdom as an ally. After all, any center of learning should not be destroyed.

[pblackcrow]

Perhaps.

[Entiago]

Are you crazy? The only conclusion I have came up with so far is the Wolven will settle North of the Great River ie. New Heaven.

Llon's mercenaries will come up from shattered mountains area, Danzi will come down in secret and battle the Wolven (whom have much respect for them). Knights of the Eastern Territories will come up an fight. Diplomatic relations will be going on....Library of Brethald might see less tourism due to fighting.

In my current campaign Southwatch was taken by the Wolven after a long 9 months of battle. Brethald is still open and welcoming visitors, but few are visiting.

[Probitas]

I'm still waiting for my copy to show up

Here's a question, if I drove to the HQ in Mich, would they even have one to sell to me? It's been over a month now waiting.

[Probitas]

It's here! "Happy Happy Joy Joy" (Ren and Stimpy)

After reading some background and location data, I'd have to say that any location can lend itself to being a good place to launch an offensive from, for either side. All it would take is a charismatic leader with some power to weld the fractious and individualistic people together to form a cohesive whole, and a few well placed attrocities to focus their attention. A 'Hitler' or 'Winston Churchill' personality would be very problematic for the people facing them across the field of battle, particularly if unconventional means are used in the form of economic and political warfare. Imagine what can occur if a group of fanatics ran around razing settlements, and then leaving some convenient proof that it was 'those guys' that attacked, even if not true, just to provoke a war? Particularly if they left some rather gruesome reminders of just how attrocious they are. A few raped corpses, some visually unappealing human body sculptures, a few smashed babies. Just the sort of thing that makes even the aberrant types get furious and hungry for vengeance. Once reason is removed, war almost becomes inevitable.

[Northern Ranger]

Eastern Territories is far an away my favorite spot to play out of. It's where I've based my created City State of Peacehope from which most of my campaigns start. (They, by the way, could give the Wolfen Empire a run for it's money. But they would try to negotiate peace first.) I'd have to say that Llorn is my favorite city in the book and yes, they would tear a deep gouge into the Wolfen, but I don't think they could defeat the canines singly. They would need help from other areas in the Territories. Help I daresay they'd get, considering the signing of the Charter of Dominion. Nobody will want to go against that. The Eastern Territories would unite against the Wolfen, of that I'm sure. As to the outcome? Who knows really? It's all up to the dice.

[Natasha]

I never really messed with the cities although I think that Northern Ranger is on to something about Llorn.

I'd have to read more on the subject but I think that the Human-Wolfen conflict could spark a war that involves pretty much the entire known world. The Western Empire probably wants a balance of power and would likely help both sides to create attrition warfare which neither can sustain and eventually call a truce with nothing changing except both sides are considerably weakened, which just makes the Western Empire a little stronger.

[Jerell]

I have thought much the same about involing the entire world and here's how I see it going down. The wolfen and canine allies concentrate and take out a city or maybe southwatch. The terrain of thick forest that cover the disputed lands favors the wolfen I believe. Plus there's plenty of timber for the wolfen siege engineers to make trebuchets or whatever it is they use to break walls. The only edge I see for the East is I believe they have more magic using types.

Anyway whenever the West gets involved that's when I see the Old Kingdom tribes invading from the boarder lands (like it is predicted in the Western Empire book). If Timiro gets involved then I forsee a slave revolt at home if their military departs enmass, and if Byzantium sends forces, I'm sure the colonies will jump at the opportunity to declar independance. So it seems all the major powers have their own promblems at home, so it should be one heck of a world war.

I think any East verse Wolfen would come down to how well the Wolfen can siege and how well the east can hold. I don't think the east would have a chance in the disputed land area away from any city, the terrain is not favorable to them. They're mounted kights would be next to useless in the uber-thick forrest.

My only question is what of North Holm? If I were the Wolfen I'd just bypass it completely. Isolate it if it becomes involved but don't directly attack it. I'd negotiate with them after the rest of the East was trampled under my Wolfen jack boots.

Offense is the Wolfen key to victory. He who defends everything, defends nothing. I just don't see the East being ready to go on the offensive, except maybe the south part of the East. I see anyone who attacks the Wolfen ending like everyone who invaded Russia or Finland and had to face the winter. Total failure, unless they have a strategist the likes of Zhuge Liang.

But who knows, that's just my line of thinking.

Emperator Fidelis

[Northern Ranger]

Don't forget about the Danzi. They'd play a huge role as well, and likely on the side of the Eastern Territories, since they despise the canine races with a deep hatred that goes back for generations. Their skill in the forests would hinder the canines to the point where I don't think they could honestly take the human kingdom. I don't know if they would surrender, because I don't think the Eastern Territories would be interested in expanding into Wolfen held lands. But they would definitely be pushed back to the point of thinking twice before they ever tried to conquer the East again!

[Library Ogre]

The problem with relying on the Danzi is that there are relatively few of them; from what I remember, there are more Wolfen in even the smallest of tribes than there are Danzi, total. And those Wolfen are just a generation or two out of the forest, themselves. While the Danzi would be on home ground, the Wolfen can overwhelm them with numbers of skilled rangers.

[Veknironth]

Yeah, I don't see the Danzi taking to the battle field or anything. I can imagine them hindering the Wolfen supply efforts, attempting to wreak havoc on their infrstructure as best as possible and possibly spying on them for the ET folk.

-Vek
"Not the phone home ET."

[Northern Ranger]

Yeah, I don't see the Danzi taking to the battle field or anything. I can imagine them hindering the Wolfen supply efforts, attempting to wreak havoc on their infrstructure as best as possible and possibly spying on them for the ET folk.

-Vek
"Not the phone home ET."

The prosecution rests. That's what I meant. They wouldn't necessarily take up arms with the Eastern Soldiers, but they would not stand by and let the canines over run their native land, either. No matter how few of them there are (and no one knows this for certain), they would still be quite formidable against the canines because they've been fighting them for centuries. They know just how to screw the doggies up.

[Library Ogre]

Yeah, I don't see the Danzi taking to the battle field or anything. I can imagine them hindering the Wolfen supply efforts, attempting to wreak havoc on their infrstructure as best as possible and possibly spying on them for the ET folk.

-Vek
"Not the phone home ET."

The prosecution rests. That's what I meant. They wouldn't necessarily take up arms with the Eastern Soldiers, but they would not stand by and let the canines over run their native land, either. No matter how few of them there are (and no one knows this for certain), they would still be quite formidable against the canines because they've been fighting them for centuries. They know just how to screw the doggies up.

However, that implies that the wolfen have learned nothing from centuries of fighting the Danzi.

[Jerell]

This is where the Kankoran counter insurgent speciallist come into play.

Don't get me wrong, the I don't think the East will go down easily and it is not inevitable that the Wolfen will win, but I think the odds are in their favor. Individual valor of the people and the skill of the leaders will mean a lot I think. However the Wolfen Tribes are unified at least, the East won't stand together until the Wolfen are on the March and knocking at their door.

My real question is what is the end game for the Wolfen. If it's just to purge the disputed land then I think that is accomplishable, but what comes after that? Were I the wolfen I would send a huge force on a lightning strike to start things out, take out as many cities in the disputed lands as possible before the East has time to react. Any expansion after that would have to be done with the upmost caution. I would try to force the East to Sue for peace after the disputed lands were cleared. As to how I would have to give it more thought, however one thing is for sure, I'd try to keep the initiative on the military front, keep them reacting to the pace I set.

Supplying the Army will be the key to success.

[Northern Ranger]

Maybe the Wolfen can take on the Eastern Territories but the other forces in the world would not let that happen så I think it is the equivalent of the cold war where nobody really dares to make the first move.

That's an interesting thought. I never really considered that line before. It makes sense, actually.

[Jerell]

Well Huge armies are not sent on lightning strikes through a dense forest.

You have to secure you lines back and wait for the slower part of the army to keep up.

It would be fairly easy to spot the army with either advanced scouts or magic and then the surprise are off.

Maybe the Wolfen can take on the Eastern Territories but the other forces in the world would not let that happen så I think it is the equivalent of the cold war where nobody really dares to make the first move.

I think the Wolfen empire would have a lot greater chance a succes through diplomacy and uniting against the common foe - the Western Empire. And trade is just so more lucrative than war in the long run.

Regards
Rasmus

With respect sir, large armies can and have been sent through dense forest on lightning strikes, like 21st panzer (and others) went through the Ardennes in 1939. Of course the French also thought they couldn't, but no one asked the tankers. Besides, the art of war dictates that you march divided and fight concentrated. Attack where they think it's impossible, like Hannibal did to Rome. More than likely I think it will be to late for the east to move troops around by the time they find one or more of groups. If the enemy is immobilized defending cities and even better strategicaly surprised, that should be advantage enough. The wolfen are at home in the dense forest, I would only think the Danzi stand a chance of having better scouts in the disputed lands.

However, I would love to see them unite with the north, east and south against the West. Now that would be a fight. Which again I believe will depend mainly on the soldiers and the generals. Nothing is for sure in war. Expect the unexpected.

If anyone is going to throw a wrench into the Wolfen's plan early war it would be Rurga. As the Wolfen I wouldn't expect a Gawd to intervene, however as a GM I know that Rurga actually does personaly intervene and get involved. If anyone is going to save the disputed land it will be Rurga and her faithful.

[Library Ogre]

You know what I think is going to happen? At least once during the course of the conflict, both sides will lose a large number of soldiers due to a misplaced spell starting a fire. Wall of Fire, River of Lava, Handful of Lightning; something like that's going to set a whole lot on fire.

[Northern Ranger]

You know what I think is going to happen? At least once during the course of the conflict, both sides will lose a large number of soldiers due to a misplaced spell starting a fire. Wall of Fire, River of Lava, Handful of Lightning; something like that's going to set a whole lot on fire.

Handful of lightning? Another Mysteries of Magic spoiler, Mark? lol

[Jefram_denkar]

I figure that even if Rurga were involed that would be countered by the fact the Wolfen have their own god. As well as they follow many gods and some would side (even good) to keep things from getting out of hand.

This one going to have to be handled my the mortal followers if gods get involved.

[Jerell]

With respect sir, large armies can and have been sent through dense forest on lightning strikes, like 21st panzer (and others) went through the Ardennes in 1939. Of course the French also thought they couldn't, but no one asked the tankers. Besides, the art of war dictates that you march divided and fight concentrated. Attack where they think it's impossible, like Hannibal did to Rome. More than likely I think it will be to late for the east to move troops around by the time they find one or more of groups. If the enemy is immobilized defending cities and even better strategicaly surprised, that should be advantage enough. The wolfen are at home in the dense forest, I would only think the Danzi stand a chance of having better scouts in the disputed lands.

I don't think it is fair to say that a fantasy army marching on foot can be compared to a modern panzer division. It's a lot easier to be driven to combat than it is to march while waiting on the oxne cart to drag you food throug the forest and 100.000+ Wolfen eat quit a bit The french didn't expect anybody to come over the Ardennes so the wasn't waching. I'm sure the eastern territories are watching!
But maybe it's possible. Know we need the Wolfen Wars to be printet så we can se what will happen

Have anybody read Orcs? Maybe somebody finds a cache of modern weapons and instilled with marinish thoughts set out to conquer the world

Regards
Rasmus

Good good. However, the french actually built the fortifications the way they did to try to force the next war to be fought on Belgium soil. Their chain of command was just slow to react, they expected another long infantry war. They didn't expect Belgium to be taken out so quick either. But still, for other examples you can look come from the fall of the Chinese Han Dynasty. Cao Cao was said to have been able to march his troops 100 miles a day. I believe it was the battle of Cheng Du... he was marching north whatever it was...

[Jerell]

I agree, the French were not prepared for blitzkrieg, especially above the Regimental level.

I reference the Chronicles of the Three Kingdoms as my historical source for Cao Cao. Most of the Chinese records to me seem to be at least fairly to mostly acuarate, but I guess I can't know for 100%. However I choose to believe them. As for the guys not being ready to fight straight away when they got there, there is truth to that. As the Han said, "A worn spear can not even penetrate cloth."

However, I would argue a fit and trained force could travel over 40 miles a day even with heavy armor. Especially with 'giant sized' steps. A lot still depends on the troops though. I feel that wolfen imperials and tribals could maintain a faster pace than a like human sized force. However, that's just this unworthy one's assessment. Feel free to disreguard if you like. Tactial surprise wouldn't be near as important as strategical surprise for my plan. /bow

[Jerell]

I like Southwatch, it is a rich center to work out of in a game.

Actually I LOVE the entire book and wish he had run with the setting.

I agree, also Dain Rurga and Haven... That whole region is my favorite. From haven to North Holm.

[Library Ogre]

What do I think of them? They'll be crushed under our boot heels, that's what I think of them. Bunch of whiny little racists. Most of them are far too selfish to believably come together with the force needed to repel an organized attack from a powerful nation, and they are comparatively ill-equipped to deal with the terrain and climate.

Wolfen don't wear boots. Their feet are wrong.

[Jefram_denkar]

What do I think of them? They'll be crushed under our boot heels, that's what I think of them. Bunch of whiny little racists. Most of them are far too selfish to believably come together with the force needed to repel an organized attack from a powerful nation, and they are comparatively ill-equipped to deal with the terrain and climate.

Yes yes, we know, humans are scum and villainy personified, and the Wolfen Empire is the Coalition States of the Palladium World, except they're led by a bunch of pack minded predators that somehow are all scrupulosily aligned. Please don't get me going on that thread. It is to me the single greatest weakness of the Palladium games.

As for how a war would break down if we use the books as written. Simple, the wolfen would start to sweep thru the northern most settlements in an orgy of violence that still somehow keeps all those wolfen warriors as good aligned. Then those nasty evil humans would do the unthinkable, they'd send a fleet of ships and start raiding the wolfen towns. With all/most of their warriors south fighting, the towns would be relatively defenseless. The humans would murder and pillage on a wide scale. Due to differences in scale and form; they probably would avoid ravaging though. This would send those angels of mercy known as wolfen into greater heights of violence, but they'd be less effective because so many warriors would have to return home and defend the towns/families.

Sorry, couldn't resist a little bit of a rant there.

The thing about that is the "humans Nations" believe the Wolfen will come down in an orgy of violence.

The fact is the Wolfen tend to play it alot cleaner then that (read Wolfen wars for their tactics and stratigies)

Which I find funny considering the Wolfen empire has a rather large population of humans in it.
The Kingdom of Haven is part of the Wolfen Empire after all.

[Library Ogre]

Which I find funny considering the Wolfen empire has a rather large population of humans in it.
The Kingdom of Haven is part of the Wolfen Empire after all.

Havea, not Haven.

[Jefram_denkar]

Which I find funny considering the Wolfen empire has a rather large population of humans in it.
The Kingdom of Haven is part of the Wolfen Empire after all.

Havea, not Haven.

oops

[Library Ogre]

Actually, Wolfen are never specifically mentioned as carnivores; in fact, the Sea Hawks specifically mention that they eat fruit, grains, and vegetables (in addition to fish and meat).

I tend to view Wolfen as being omnivores, but they have a preference for meat, and would have a lot harder time with a vegetarian diet than a human.

[Jefram_denkar]

The thing is Killgore that like wolfs, Wolfen work well together, in fact from the looks of it their far more pack driven then humans are in the palladium world.

Also like wolfs, wolfen are not out right cruel. Sure they would kill to eat but they are not doing it for sport.

The thing is that alot of people in the Eastern territories believe are blood thirsty baby eating monsters. It is what alot of people use to believe about real wolfs but now in real life we know better.

What Mad Cyric said about them taking a short time to get on there feet as a nation (he quoted 70 years). you have to remember they had a culture before that a barbarian one sure but they had one before they became the empire, so they had something to build on.

It even says in the Wolfen book that one of the reasons their army is so effect is the fact all the veterans of their barbarian armies just became veterans of their new imperial armies.

[Jefram_denkar]

But... as the Wolfen book explicitly sais that one tribe does eat fruits and plants wouldn`t this suggest that most of the others do not (or only in small quantities)?

Wolfen Empire is a new (relatively) purchase for me. I've had the impression they where carnivores since the first edition of PFRPG way back in the early 80's. This is the first time I've seen information to the contrary. Sorry if I'm out of date. Besides, like I said, I was having a hard time with the book already.

I think "killgore"s rant has some valid points. I was quite surprised with the level of civilization the wolven book suggested compared to what I thought I would find in it`s pages after reading the Eastern Territory and the main rulebook. And all this only 70 years after they ended their endless tribal feuds. Mankind took much longer to take this step...

This is to me, one of the biggest problems with palladium in general and certain lines in specific. Humans are always to blame, no matter what. No matter how evil and perverted the other side is, humans are at least partially to blame. Then when there is a supplement about another society that doesn't have humans in charge, it becomes a utopia of near heavenly standards. Sorry, but the peachiness of W.E. just bugs me.

The thing is Killgore that like wolfs, Wolfen work well together, in fact from the looks of it their far more pack driven then humans are in the palladium world.

First of all, wolfs DON'T work better together then humans. Let's be clear on that. Humans where able to achieve dominance on Earth because we work well together, and different groups will come together and work together against an outside group (more on this below). Second, both humans and the way wolfen are portrayed in the book, wolfen as well, are GROUP, not pack animals. If they where pack, there'd be a lot less of them. In packs, only the alphas get to mate, in groups, his/her underlings get to mate as well.

Also like wolfs, wolfen are not out right cruel. Sure they would kill to eat but they are not doing it for sport.

This is my problem. Wolfen are intelligent and possess the full range of alignments. Or did I miss the section where they are descended from Angels and can not be evil? Hunting for sport and cruelty are choices individuals make based on personal morality and ethics. Are you implying wolfen do not possess free will? Seriously, are you? If that's the case, then they're nothing but advanced apes with a high animal intelligence, and shouldn't be available as PCs.
Second point, the humans of the E.T. aren't hunting for sport, they're hunting for food. Hunting is survival in the cultures like that. Don't hunt, you starve.
Side note BTW, it's been shown, wolves will hunt for sport and enjoyment.

The thing is that alot of people in the Eastern territories believe are blood thirsty baby eating monsters. It is what alot of people use to believe about real wolfs but now in real life we know better.

We also know now that wolves have a vast and diverse range of behavior on the subject of violence. They engage in all sorts of unsavory acts in order to survive. Which does include eating children (of many species)? I'd have to find it, but a long time ago I was reading about the major wolf attack on a village in Russia. Several hundred people where killed, including children. They also killed all of the livestock and pets. Even when the military came to the rescue, they suffered casualties, and they where using machine guns and biplanes.
Wolves also have members who are, as humans would say; deviant, in matters of mating and violence.

Remember, Mother Nature is NOT good aligned.

What Mad Cyric said about them taking a short time to get on there feet as a nation (he quoted 70 years). you have to remember they had a culture before that a barbarian one sure but they had one before they became the empire, so they had something to build on.

And they've found tools that where invented by prehistoric, Homo Sapien, Europeans on the coast of California (they got here by boats) dating back to 18,000 BC (that's right, Europeans are the original Americans, the modern Indians are descended from the Asian invaders). Are you suggesting that humans haven't built on their own history?
The history of the wolfen has been a LOT shorter. They didn't even exist in the palladium world until a couple of thousand years ago (Elf/Dwarf war).

It even says in the Wolfen book that one of the reasons their army is so effect is the fact all the veterans of their barbarian armies just became veterans of their new imperial armies.

But they don't live that long. They have a somewhat shorter life span then humans. All the barbarian horde veterans would be dead of old age.
It's also a far cry from being a barbarian horde to being a professional army. That's an insult to soldiers everywhere.
Something else to remember, the Roman Army, who the Wolfen are based off of, didn't develop the professionalism they are known for, for a long time. In one of the more ironic twists of history, it was Hannibal, and Scipios' need to bring him down that led to the improvement in Roman tactics and training.
_________________________________________________________________
OK, above I mentioned I'd have more to say on the Pack/Group mentality, so, story/question time.

Did you attend High School? If so, did your school have a cross town rival? When you and that rivals students met, did you razz each other (possibly worse), and claim your school was better (usually because you attended it)? Now, while you and the students from the other school where arguing over who was better, what happened when students from a school in another town got involved, and claimed they where better? Did you ignore the students from the other town, and continue in your attacks against your cross town rival, or did you gang up with said rival and "PROVE" your TOWN was better then their town, so even the lowest school from your town was better then their best?
It just goes up from there people. You find it in sports, States, Countries, Militaries, Religions, RPGs (those WW players, they just suck you know). The list goes on.

My Brother tells a story about when he was in the Army, stationed in Germany. Him and some friends where at a bar, and got into an argument with some American Marines. Things kind of spiraled out of control, and it turned into a fist fight. Well, shortly after that, some German soldiers (don't know what force) got involved, and the Army and Marines promptly stopped fighting each other, and joined forces to take on the Germans. This of course led to Police/MP involvement. At that point, the German and American soldiers promptly stopped fighting each other, so they could join together to take on the cops, both military and civilian. It went from being Army vs. Marine, to American vs. German, to Soldier vs. Cop, all because of how humans mentally perceive their social structure.

So, in a Wolfen Empire vs. Eastern Territory war, I tend to think the humans and humanlike would gang up pretty quick. But then again, so would the canines.

Well your missing the point on a couple things Killgore.

One I never said Wolfen were saints or desended from angels. I was merly pointing out the fact that the People of the Eartern territories underestimate the wolfen because they think the wolfen are monsters.

As for their history I am saying that the wolfen have built on their past to create their empire. sure their history never been that long but they did have some stuff to work with.

Now concerning their army Barbarian dose not mean primitive (after all the germans were considered barbaric by the Romans and that got alot of Roman Solders killed) plus When older solders train the younger ones their knowledge is passed down so even if Wolfen do not live as long as humans they still retain the skills their ancesters learned.

Also I never claimed a wolf was not dangerous simply that the myth that they go out of their way to attack human is false. the fact is a Woflen can be cruel but as a whole they are not (we could get into a hugh debate over nature vs nuture but this is not the place for it.)

Also humans do not rule the world because we work well together but from the fact we are a dangerous race with creativity on our side. Making tools like spears, arrows, axes, and other implements of distruction is the reason humans run the planet.

And what is this about prehistoric Europeans in California in 18,00 BC??? Now do you have a list of references for this, can you even prove that???

And then their is the Russian village attack. What are your sources??? What do you have to prove that names, dates, anything???

Note that an increase in wolf attacks activity in World War 1 did happen. But your figures for causalties are right off. Note I am familur with the incidents around the CIty of Kovno (the most noted Wolf Attacks in history circa 1917)
but the fact is while the starving wolfs were a danger. They did not kill several hunderd people. Several hunderd wolfs were killed but no where near that number in people.

Now that being said like any wild animal you need to be careful around wolfs it is just that simple.

[Jefram_denkar]

[quote="killgore
OK. Let me be clear. My problem is with the attitude in the book Wolfen Empire. That book tries to make it appear that wolfen are blessed and special. Unless you wrote the book, I've never said you claimed to have said that. I was also being sarcastic when I said it. There where good things in W.E., but they where over shadowed by a wide margin the attitude that humans are scum and wolfen aren't.[/quote]

OK the thing is because the book is about the wolfen, of course their going to toot the Wolfens horn. Personally from when I read to book it is more like the Eastern territories are scum (after all alot of humans live in the Woflen empire) but then again the book is just showing it from the wolfen perspective, that is all.

Also most of what I watch is the discovery and history channel. But I never saw any show about what your talking about. Do you remember the shows name???

Ow and thank you for the references, it is nice to see someone who actually got information to back up what there saying and not trying to start a flame war.

[Library Ogre]

(after all alot of humans live in the Woflen empire)

BTW, if you look at the humans there, you should notice something odd. There king has been king for 200 years. There's only one race that can look human and live over 200 years (250 to be exact)!

Actually, when that fact was first written, changelings could live to be 800.

[Library Ogre]

(after all alot of humans live in the Woflen empire)

BTW, if you look at the humans there, you should notice something odd. There king has been king for 200 years. There's only one race that can look human and live over 200 years (250 to be exact)!

Actually, when that fact was first written, changelings could live to be 800.

Really, my book says 250+, and my original PFRPG 1st ed doesn't list life span. Where does it give 800?

Huh. I could've sworn the 1st edition stuff listed their lifespan as 800 years when I had it.

....

Ok. I found it. 1st edition PFRPG, page 3. Same table that gives them a 40% chance of being cannibals.

[Northern Ranger]

Wow, we've got some canine haters in the house!

[Northern Ranger]

Wow, we've got some canine haters in the house!

Well really, when an official book gives them a 90% chance of being cannibals and they give shelter to changelings (who have a 40% chance of being cannibals), what do you expect? Sheeshhhh!


In reality, I don't hate Wolfen; I hate the book Wolfen Empire. Played right, wolfen really aren't that bad. I just use some house rules to balance them.

Sounds like maybe you use more than a few house rules! But hey, whatever makes your game smoother. In my games, the Wolfen aren't actually played that much. Not because I don't like them, which I don't, but because none of the people in my group really like them that much either.