Do you support the Coalition? Come vote.

[cornholioprime]

I have both a personal, Real World hatred, and an In-Game bias, against Tyranny in any form. Consequently, I 'hate' the Coalition States nearly as much as (Dunscon's Section of) the Federation of Magic, and so on........

[Mech-Viper Prime]

we do what most be done, if we must kill them, so be it, besides some of them d-bee chicks are cute
All hail the Coalition States

[Sentinel]

So far, in North America anyway, the CS appears to be the safe-haven of humanity. Don't like it, but accept it.
The Coalition itself plays only a minor role in my campaign anyway, at least until I'm ready for it to factor in more.

[Dead Boy]

Though many disagree with me, I still hold to the romanticized notion that the Coalition is Humanity's last, best hope for survival. And I'm not just talking about survival of the species. I'm talking about things beyond just having a pulse. Though some times twisted and distorted, other times secreted away, the CS is the last depository of a wholly Human civilization and ideals devoid of alien influences. They are all that remains of the glorious American Empire and still hold that great nation's spirit at heart. After they are gone, all that will remain will that which the supernatural monsters, demons, and so-called gods deem appropriate. Even in places that are supposedly bearers of the truth and real history, you will find what few Humans they have there subject to the rule of their unearthly "superiors"... like Lazlo for instance. They claim to be a bastion of peaceful coexistence and enlightenment, but who sits upon their throne? A dragon by the name of Plato. Coincidence? I think not.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Though many disagree with me, I still hold to the romanticized notion that the Coalition is Humanity's last, best hope for survival. And I'm not just talking about survival of the species. I'm talking about things beyond just having a pulse. Though some times twisted and distorted, other times secreted away, the CS is the last depository of a wholly Human civilization and ideals devoid of alien influences. They are all that remains of the glorious American Empire and still hold that great nation's spirit at heart. After they are gone, all that will remain will that which the supernatural monsters, demons, and so-called gods deem appropriate. Even in places that are supposedly bearers of the truth and real history, you will find what few Humans they have there subject to the rule of their unearthly "superiors"... like Lazlo for instance. They claim to be a bastion of peaceful coexistence and enlightenment, but who sits upon their throne? A dragon by the name of Plato. Coincidence? I think not.

just brings tears to my eyes well spoken my coalition brother

[Killer Cyborg]

Though many disagree with me, I still hold to the romanticized notion that the Coalition is Humanity's last, best hope for survival. And I'm not just talking about survival of the species. I'm talking about things beyond just having a pulse. Though some times twisted and distorted, other times secreted away, the CS is the last depository of a wholly Human civilization and ideals devoid of alien influences. They are all that remains of the glorious American Empire and still hold that great nation's spirit at heart. After they are gone, all that will remain will that which the supernatural monsters, demons, and so-called gods deem appropriate. Even in places that are supposedly bearers of the truth and real history, you will find what few Humans they have there subject to the rule of their unearthly "superiors"... like Lazlo for instance. They claim to be a bastion of peaceful coexistence and enlightenment, but who sits upon their throne? A dragon by the name of Plato. Coincidence? I think not.

The way I run things, this is true.
Unfortunately, the writers have kept pumping out high tech communities and even cities that don't have the downsides of the CS.
Of course, this mostly happens in books that I outright ignore.
So I'm with you on this.

The way I look at it, the basic dilema of rifts is being forced to side with either Demons or Nazis. Personally, as abhorant as they are, I'd choose the Nazis if they'll have me.
Of course, a normal human can always try to make a life for himself on his own, living away from either side of things, but he'll likely just end up being killed by a Mega-Damage Mosquito or something.
Without the CS to protect them, most humans are just meat on the table for the many hungry monsters out there.

As for places like Lazlo, I don't buy that there can ever be equality between humans and dragons any more than there can be equality between humans and dogs.
You might befriend a dragon, but you're still just a short-lived squishie to him.

[Scooter the Outlaw]

There are a few ways that humans can gain equality to dragons.

*Exposure to weird energies from Lemurian dimensional experiments (se Underseas)

*Mega-Juicer, Splugorth Bio-Juicer, or murder-wraith processes

*Anti-monster processes

*Gene-splicer intervention

*CS Janissary experiments (I think)

And others. As for Joe Smith being able to get equal rights in the same community, sure it can happen. But joe's kid could certainly be killed in a playground fight with little Jimmy the newly-hatched great horned dragon of the same age who was only trying to grab him by the neck.

Maybe you can come close to becoming as powerful as the dragon, but on the other hand, are you really human after this? Or are you just another weird thing that probably shouldn't be of this world? One of the central themes of Rifts, according to the main book, is humans losing their humanity through lust for power. I'd say all the above qualify for that heading.

Anyway, if I were alive in 106 P.A., I'd think the CS is where to go for an S.D.C. being like myself. Human companionship? Check. Charismatic leadership? Check. Proactive attitude? Check. The Coalition is all that might let us take back our world again someday.

[Scooter the Outlaw]

Yes son, join us.....join the darker side

If the CS is the dark side, everything else is pitch black. Call the CS evil, but I'd rather slam an e-clip in a demon's face than work for him abducting children any day.

[Kalinda]

this is a hard choice, but in the end I see the coalition (and triax.) as the best hope humanity has of retaking the planet from beings like the splugorth and the vampire intelligences. Although they are a dictatorship, they are the most powerful human controlled political entity on earth, so I've gotta side with them. (being human and all.) Well, mostly human.

[Jesterzzn]

There are a few ways that humans can gain equality to dragons.

*Exposure to weird energies from Lemurian dimensional experiments (se Underseas)

*Mega-Juicer, Splugorth Bio-Juicer, or murder-wraith processes

*Anti-monster processes

*Gene-splicer intervention

*CS Janissary experiments (I think)

And others. As for Joe Smith being able to get equal rights in the same community, sure it can happen. But joe's kid could certainly be killed in a playground fight with little Jimmy the newly-hatched great horned dragon of the same age who was only trying to grab him by the neck.

Maybe hatchling dragons, but adult dragons really can't be matched by anything you listed.

Gamma Rays, All you need are Gamma Rays. Then after you have the rays shined apon you...HULK OUT BABY!!!!!

[Dead Boy]

I find this amazing. A year ago when I was spouting the same pro-CS endorsements I was met by a dozen ten-paragraph rebuttals spelling out how I was so full of it, even the cows were complaining about the smell. Now...

[Kalinda]

I find this amazing. A year ago when I was spouting the same pro-CS endorsements I was met by a dozen ten-paragraph rebuttals spelling out how I was so full of it, even the cows were complaining about the smell. Now...

It's still early, I'm sure we'll catch plenty of flack. fortunately the CS makes very good armor.

[Jesterzzn]

Actually I see the NGR as being humankinds last defense. They are much more powerfull than the CS and dont go all Nazi all the time. Plus with the GB tech they have evrything that the CS has plus allot more. AND they make use of psi's and magic. WHen you look at it it gives them a huge advantage.

Not questioning you, but where did you read that? Or where is it hinted or stated?

If driven to full scale invasion level war status, I think that the NGR could out do the CS as well.

[Jesterzzn]

The Mind Bleeder disc. in rifts africa says that the NGR views them as dangerous, BUT ocassionaly use them for spy missions, somthing the CS doesnt condone. EVER. This means if they use psi's, there utilizing a whole new part of the human race that the CS shuns away.

These things above by use of reading and using common sense my friends, is where i got my previous post

The CS does use psychics in their military. Dog Boys, Psi Stalkers, plus all the psychic research they talk about in Psyscape.

[Jesterzzn]

would you really count dog boys or psi-stalkers? they just kinda hunt Psi's down.

Ohh i forgot about Psiscape, but they do shun psi's, wich make em' harder to come by

Yea, but they are much much more tolerant of pyschics than magic or D-Bees, which they kill on sight.

[Killer Cyborg]

would you really count dog boys or psi-stalkers? they just kinda hunt Psi's down.

Ohh i forgot about Psiscape, but they do shun psi's, wich make em' harder to come by

No, they make psychics register and they keep track of them.
Psychics can and do join the CS military and become CS citizens. In fact, 12% of the CS population is psychic.
Minor psychics are simply noted in a file, and major/master psychics have to submit to Identification Coding.
That's it, unless you're a Mind Melter (in which case they hunt you down if you're not working for them).
The CS Psi-Net employs psi-stalkers, dog-boys, bursters, zappers, Mind Melters, Nega-psychics, and any number of other psychic RCCs.

For that matter, while the CS doesn't like mages, they have few qualms about hiring them for mercenary work here and there.

[Jesterzzn]

For that matter, while the CS doesn't like mages, they have few qualms about hiring them for mercenary work here and there.

Not "officially".

But yea, the CS and NGR are not as dissimilar as all that, they just have different, shall we say, methods of enforcement.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

I find this amazing. A year ago when I was spouting the same pro-CS endorsements I was met by a dozen ten-paragraph rebuttals spelling out how I was so full of it, even the cows were complaining about the smell. Now...

that is so very true, a couple of years ago if you were pro- coalition you were in the small number.

[Kalinda]

I find this amazing. A year ago when I was spouting the same pro-CS endorsements I was met by a dozen ten-paragraph rebuttals spelling out how I was so full of it, even the cows were complaining about the smell. Now...

that is so very true, a couple of years ago if you were pro- coalition you were in the small number.

I wonder what happened?

My guess is that eventually everyone wakes up and thinks. "You know, erin tarn is kind of preachy.' and thus the slide into darkness begins.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

I find this amazing. A year ago when I was spouting the same pro-CS endorsements I was met by a dozen ten-paragraph rebuttals spelling out how I was so full of it, even the cows were complaining about the smell. Now...

that is so very true, a couple of years ago if you were pro- coalition you were in the small number.

I wonder what happened?

My guess is that eventually everyone wakes up and thinks. "You know, erin tarn is kind of preachy.' and thus the slide into darkness begins.

Because without the coalition, north america becames a dangerous place if you are a human .

[Larsen]

I view the Cs as the new nazi regime. Coincedence that they dress exactly like them? I think not. I look at their view of killing the d-bees for protection the same as the kkk's view of killing all the blacks to eliminate the bad ones(i've actually heard that one from a former kkk member). The CS foolishly thinks that they can purge the inhumans from earth like the other racist factions in american history thought, and in parts still do think, they can just send the blacks back to africa.

The only hope of rifts earth to one day fight off the monsters (inhuman and human) is to have those good beings of all species rally together. The place that has the best chance of this is Lazlo. They have proven humans and supernatural creatures can co-exist. Their government is set up most like our american system. Checks and balances not one insane dictator and his son rule this government. A human named thomm leads one side, the congress of the electorate and a dragon named plato heads the council of learning.

Anyone who mistakenly believes plato rules Lazlo can look back to RMB pg 149 6th paragraph left hand column.

I group the CS in with the alastar of the federation of magic. They are both the same type of evil, just using different means, cs with their tech. and fed. of magic with their magics.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

i dont believe that Lazlo is the best hope for mankind, somehow following a a dragon in any council makes me wonder.

[dark brandon]

On CS: What deadboy said.

On NGR: Re-read Triax and NGR. While they may not be as bad to dbees you can't concider what they do to be "good". Dbees are generally slaves, being paid much much less to do a job than a human. Also, the NGR has no quam about letting Dbees getting killed outside their boarders and when they purged them from Triax/NGR many were killed by the onslaught of Gargs. Will triax become like CS in regards to Dbees? possible. They have increased trade with Quebec and have formed an alliance with CS. No doubt this means they have to take a tougher stand on them. Also, it Triax who wanted the alliance with CS, not the other way around. While Triax may be stronger, CS is the one with the name and are known for their Ruthlessness and that's something NGR wanted a part of.

On Lazlo: The current situation is harmony, but that will likely degrade if there is pressure on them from quebec and CS. When the walls start to close in on Lazlo, you'll begin to see it fall apart where it will become obvious that most 'greater' beings will value themselves more than humans.

on CS evil: It is a nessissary evil. 1) A democracy while great, has much red tape, and sometimes you need to make a decition on the spot. Having a ruler makes this alot easier without having to worry about again..the "red tape" or really having to explain or defend yourself. 2) You don't need citizens questioning your every move. this can lead to problems within the state shaking it's foundation. In this moment of time it's better to keep them docile.

CS, while stable is not safe. There are still plenty of Magic users, demons and Cyber knights out there that threaten humanity. Maybe not on a level that could hurt the CS, but on a level that could hurt a single person.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

I find this amazing. A year ago when I was spouting the same pro-CS endorsements I was met by a dozen ten-paragraph rebuttals spelling out how I was so full of it, even the cows were complaining about the smell. Now...

that is so very true, a couple of years ago if you were pro- coalition you were in the small number.

I wonder what happened?

My guess is that eventually everyone wakes up and thinks. "You know, erin tarn is kind of preachy.' and thus the slide into darkness begins.

I'll tell you what happened, The CS won a war. Most of these "Johnny Come-Lately's" are jumping on the bandwagon. It's HUMAN nature to gravitate to a strong leader for protection, accent on the HUMAN. That after all is what the CS is all about (if in a slightly misguided way) humanity.

yup guess Patton was right everybody loves a winner and wouldn't tolerate a loser,but the fact the coalition won despite Tolkeen best effect to stop them(dragon Kings,demon, and war machines) tolkeen still lost big

[Scooter the Outlaw]

I view the Cs as the new nazi regime. Coincedence that they dress exactly like them? I think not. I look at their view of killing the d-bees for protection the same as the kkk's view of killing all the blacks to eliminate the bad ones(i've actually heard that one from a former kkk member). The CS foolishly thinks that they can purge the inhumans from earth like the other racist factions in american history thought, and in parts still do think, they can just send the blacks back to africa.

The only hope of rifts earth to one day fight off the monsters (inhuman and human) is to have those good beings of all species rally together. The place that has the best chance of this is Lazlo. They have proven humans and supernatural creatures can co-exist. Their government is set up most like our american system. Checks and balances not one insane dictator and his son rule this government. A human named thomm leads one side, the congress of the electorate and a dragon named plato heads the council of learning.

Anyone who mistakenly believes plato rules Lazlo can look back to RMB pg 149 6th paragraph left hand column.

I group the CS in with the alastar of the federation of magic. They are both the same type of evil, just using different means, cs with their tech. and fed. of magic with their magics.

Well, for one, that's pretty easy to judge with all your 21st century fancy book-learnin' and liberal attitudes.

Second, Lazlo's government is 'equal' for now. But what do you think will happen when push comes to shove? Think a race of natrually superior individuals are going to really, honestly care--even when it's in their nature not to--about lesser beings? I really, really doubt it.

Third, Erin Tarn is always dumping on New Lazlo for their idealism, and how they're going to get stomped on someday for it. If I were her, I'd keep my liberal, left-wing, D-Bee loving mouth shut. She's not #1 on the CS hit list for nothing. That garbage she writes is pro-Lazlo propaganda just like the CS 'informational booklets' they probably hand out teaches you 'how to survive a D-Bee attack ("Grab the nearest gun and pull the trigger repeatedly")'.

Fourth, sure, it's an awful way of life. The CS does terrible, terrible things to sentient life forms. But hey, Lazlo does nothing and takes years to figure out if they should attack the Xiticix or not. C'mon, those things are a disease. There's a reason there's been no six-book miniseries on Lazlo (as much as SoT was nonsensical and silly), and no 'Lazlo Peace Campaign', or whatever their CWC equivalent would be. If inactivity represents enlightenment, then hey, I'm a lot closer to nirvana than I thought I was.

[cornholioprime]

Lazlo is the hope for North America the way that Berkeley was the hope for the US in the 1960s. Lazlo may have some incredibly powerful magics, but remember four things:

1) It sits near a huge lake, the CS can deploy its naval strength in a way that was not possible with Tolkeen ##1##

2) Lazlo is run by far less militant characters. If push came to shove, they would likely Rift the entire city elsewhere rather than fight to the death. ##2##

3) Many of Lazlo's people think that their superhuman allies will stay at their side should the situation get tough. If more than about 1/5 of them leave should shells hit Lazlo itself (which given the naval situation would be very quickly), watch the entire country's morale fall apart ##3##

4) No one will come to Lazlo's aid, and in fact almost no one sympathizes with them other than New Lazlo (who should have been conquered and turned into a new capital for a CS state covering northern Indiana and southern Michigan IMHO; why does the CS go off on wars of conquest hundreds of miles to the northwest when it does not officially control the lands less than 100 miles east of their own capital?!) ##4##

##1## Navies exist where they are built; they are not airlifted in, for obvious reasons. If the CS does not already have Naval Shipyards in the Lakes surrounding Lazlo, it does NOT have Naval Assets there. Period.

##2## Lazlo is, first of all, said to be even more powerful than Tolkeen. Second, its ranks have been swelled with experienced 'Soldiers' from Tolkeen. Third, only Writer's Fiat would make any other Magic Using Nations in North America just run away from further attempts by the CS to expand; neither Dweomer nor the Federation of Magic nor Dweomer is likely to run any more, at least if you take true Human Nature into account and not some silly Script.

##3## Any future Magic-Using Nation, including even the (Dunscon Portion of the) Federation of Magic is even more likely to stand together should the CS ever make an assault on another Magic-Using Community; at least, that's Human Nature, anyway. Of course, if KevSim should so decree, the other Magic Nations will just sit back and watch while yet another Kingdom takes it in the shorts.....

##4## See Number 3 above. Human History is replete with examples of how Humans of even opposing alignments and outlook banded together against a common foe. Enter the Siege on Tolkeen, where an 'innocent' Nation is attacked and NONE of the other Kingdoms in North America jump into the fray, even when the CS weakened its Border Defenses to fight Tolkeen; and who STILL don't launch a concerted attack on the weakened Coalition States. 100% Pure, unadulterated Writer's Fiat....

[gaby]

Ther is a Big Difference between the CS and the FofM.

The CS is made up by humans with the Potential to change, it,s just a Question of time.

The FofM is led by a Mad Immortal and his Demons allies.
Do you think they can change? Not likely.

I think Lazlo knowns that it,s the FofM that is the Big Danger in the long run.
It will take a good 10 to 15 years before the Cs may try to take more land and that only in the West.

I think the Cs has permanently Give-Up any hope of taking over North Indiana,lower Michigan and South Ontario.

They wokr with the Splugorth,Why take out a lasser evil like The CS and have it replace by a Biger evil of the FofM.

I Hope Kevin Siembieda will do a Lazlo Vs FofM,s War!

[Kalinda]

This is why I REALLY would have liked to see a Tolkeen book before/instead of the SoT series, and why I still want a book on lazlo. we have no way of knowing how proactive/inactive either kingdom is in hunting and slaying demons, vampires, and the other evil that makes life on rifts earth so difficult. for all we know lazlo may have thousands of demon hunters roaming the land, righting wrongs and making things better for the common people, all paid out of platos horde. for all we know, they could be the rifts equivalent of france.

my own take is that lazlo, and tolkeen before the war, supported groups of adventurers in their efforts and probably sent teams to deal with major threats, but overall have no long term plans to carry the fight to the enemy and free all of NA, then the world.

the CS is the only power in NA that both has the power and the will to take on the FoM, the Ziticx, the vampires, etc.

Do I wish they were less anti-D-bee and anti-magic. HECK YES! the SoT was an utter waste of resources at this point, and a lot of their policys only cause more trouble in the long run, but for better or worse I gotta side with the CS over the demons.

[Larsen]

Well, for one, that's pretty easy to judge with all your 21st century fancy book-learnin' and liberal attitudes.

Sorry I thought the topic was what I feel the CS is not some poor farmer who is ignorant of what the true CS is because of the lies and propoganda that the CS themselves institute. I'm sorry that I feel that any government that has one lifelong ruler and likes to keep its citizens only slightly more intelligent than a dog to be evil.

Second, Lazlo's government is 'equal' for now. But what do you think will happen when push comes to shove? Think a race of natrually superior individuals are going to really, honestly care--even when it's in their nature not to--about lesser beings? I really, really doubt it.

Since their is no book really describing lazlo and what it has had to do to survive there is no proof that they haven't had to defend themselves so that is left to your belief system. If you are someone who is a human supremacist of course your not going to believe that another race could actually have loyalty and courage especially since your human supremacist leader doesn't have those qualities.
Secondly do you honestly think that prosek and his administration would stick around if his nice cushy home were sacked and he was actually in the middle of the fighting? His son probably would but the "great ruler" himself? No that bigot would be gone before the invaders even got close to his sanctuary.

The CS is fighting for survival where the FoM is fighting for more power for a couple powerfull mages and demons.......hmmm I really don't see a resemblance.

If you actually believe the CS isn't fighting for more power you need to look back at the books again or take off the rose colored glasses.

The CS wouldn't have such strict D-bee policies if it weren't for all the evil mages and demons that are always trying to come into power.

Their are just as many evil non-magic users. If the CS would wake up and use magic, psionics, and have d-bee allies in addition to their great technology they would have a much easier time fighting their enemys. Then again if they were a bit more tolerant they wouldn't have as many enemies.........

The CS is made up by humans with the Potential to change, it,s just a Question of time.

The FofM is led by a Mad Immortal and his Demons allies.
Do you think they can change? Not likely.

While I agree that humans have a potential to change, it won't happen until prosek and his regime are thrown out as they are every bit as insane and evil as dunscon. The only real difference between the two leaders and their lackeys is that dunscon and his followers could wipe out prosek and his minions if the two leaders actually fought each other.

Also it is surprizing to see so many pro-Cs posts since the last time a cs love/hate post came out. I guess it is true that people follow a winner instead of what is actually right.

[Kalinda]

Larsen wrote:

Also it is surprizing to see so many pro-Cs posts since the last time a cs love/hate post came out. I guess it is true that people follow a winner instead of what is actually right.

Personally, my views on the CS haven't changed very much since I started playing rifts when it first came out. Ugly, but necessary. I don't even own the last two books in SoT and don't plan to ever use it in my game. in any case, the CS hardly 'won' that war. they bled themselves white for no purpose other then hatred, which is the major problem with the current regime.

I just think NA would be worse off without them. (debatable, I know...)

People can change. the majority of people in the CS are not evil, just misled.

[Vrykolas2k]

Lazlo is the hope for North America the way that Berkeley was the hope for the US in the 1960s. Lazlo may have some incredibly powerful magics, but remember four things:

1) It sits near a huge lake, the CS can deploy its naval strength in a way that was not possible with Tolkeen

2) Lazlo is run by far less militant characters. If push came to shove, they would likely Rift the entire city elsewhere rather than fight to the death.

3) Many of Lazlo's people think that their superhuman allies will stay at their side should the situation get tough. If more than about 1/5 of them leave should shells hit Lazlo itself (which given the naval situation would be very quickly), watch the entire country's morale fall apart

4) No one will come to Lazlo's aid, and in fact almost no one sympathizes with them other than New Lazlo (who should have been conquered and turned into a new capital for a CS state covering northern Indiana and southern Michigan IMHO; why does the CS go off on wars of conquest hundreds of miles to the northwest when it does not officially control the lands less than 100 miles east of their own capital?!)

What naval strength? Their little boats all sank...
Lazlo isn't just filled with flower-power types. They did decide to annihilate the xiticix after some debate...
Lazlo's super-human allies are more loyal than were Tolkeen's {if you must take that rubish about the Dragon Kings not killing every human germ seriously...}
Lazlo has many more allies than Tolkeen did, including certain deities. And maybe their forces would do some commando and assassin hits in Chi-Town...

[cornholioprime]

Larsen wrote:

Also it is surprizing to see so many pro-Cs posts since the last time a cs love/hate post came out. I guess it is true that people follow a winner instead of what is actually right.

Personally, my views on the CS haven't changed very much since I started playing rifts when it first came out. Ugly, but necessary. I don't even own the last two books in SoT and don't plan to ever use it in my game. in any case, the CS hardly 'won' that war. they bled themselves white for no purpose other then hatred, which is the major problem with the current regime.

I just think NA would be worse off without them. (debatable, I know...)

People can change. the majority of people in the CS are not evil, just misled.

Agree with you AND the Post you Quoted.

[cornholioprime]

"...I'm sorry that I feel that any government that has one lifelong ruler and likes to keep its citizens only slightly more intelligent than a dog to be evil."

"...If you are someone who is a human supremacist of course your not going to believe that another race could actually have loyalty and courage especially since your human supremacist leader doesn't have those qualities...."

"...If you actually believe the CS isn't fighting for more power you need to look back at the books again or take off the rose colored glasses."

"...Their are just as many evil non-magic users. If the CS would wake up and use magic, psionics, and have d-bee allies in addition to their great technology they would have a much easier time fighting their enemys. Then again if they were a bit more tolerant they wouldn't have as many enemies........."

"...While I agree that humans have a potential to change, it won't happen until prosek and his regime are thrown out as they are every bit as insane and evil as dunscon."

"Also it is surprizing to see so many pro-Cs posts since the last time a cs love/hate post came out. I guess it is true that people follow a winner instead of what is actually right."

Agree with you 1 000 000 % on ALL points.

I say before what I say again: I HATE Bigotry in any form....evan an imaginary Role-Playing Game. Even if the Haters in Question belong to my same species.

[dark brandon]

##2## Lazlo is, first of all, said to be even more powerful than Tolkeen. Second, its ranks have been swelled with experienced 'Soldiers' from Tolkeen. Third, only Writer's Fiat would make any other Magic Using Nations in North America just run away from further attempts by the CS to expand; neither Dweomer nor the Federation of Magic nor Dweomer is likely to run any more, at least if you take true Human Nature into account and not some silly Script.

It was also true that Lazlo stated that even with their help, Tolkeen didn't stand a chance against CS. Their the one's who suggested migrating. If Lazlo + tolkeen couldn't take CS out, what makes you think the left-overs of Tolkeen and Lazlo could?

##3## Any future Magic-Using Nation, including even the (Dunscon Portion of the) Federation of Magic is even more likely to stand together should the CS ever make an assault on another Magic-Using Community; at least, that's Human Nature, anyway. Of course, if KevSim should so decree, the other Magic Nations will just sit back and watch while yet another Kingdom takes it in the shorts.....

These arn't humans ruling these communities. Dunscon would sit back, as they did with tolkeen. While you would have smaller communities, the larger ones like FoM would sit back. Dunscon wants to destory the CS. He wants the FoM to bring it down. and lazlo is not a member of the FoM. Next, do you really think they would accept help from the FoM? This is supost to be a sort of Utopia...would they accept help from demons and devils?

##4## See Number 3 above. Human History is replete with examples of how Humans of even opposing alignments and outlook banded together against a common foe. Enter the Siege on Tolkeen, where an 'innocent' Nation is attacked and NONE of the other Kingdoms in North America jump into the fray, even when the CS weakened its Border Defenses to fight Tolkeen; and who STILL don't launch a concerted attack on the weakened Coalition States. 100% Pure, unadulterated Writer's Fiat....

Again, these arn't humans ruling these nations. And it was stated that many smaller communties did help Tolkeen. The other kingdoms you had was Dunscon (ruled by a demon/human creature who is insaine and wants to finish off Prosek, and believes ALL magic communties should be part of the FoM...Tolkeen was a "lesson" to those who do not join), not only that it would reviel there was a FoM and draw attention to them, and with that, you'd have Lone star south of FoM. They'd end up on a two front war. You have that one nation ruled by those 3 lords...again, Alien intellegence, not Humans. Why would they take part, they want to remain invisible to the world. Then you have Lazlo who stated they(tolkeen) cannot win the war, even with their help.

As far as I know, there are no more nations. You have smaller ones, but none that will really make any difference in a war. You have Quebec, but dispite their dislike for CS, they are more anti-dbee than they are anti-cs. Even they wouldn't want to see CS fall. Had CS gone to the brink of destruction, I have no doubt that Quebec would have helped the CS out.

And then there is ARCHIE, but he'd rather rule the CS, not see it destoried.

[dark brandon]

Agree with you 1 000 000 % on ALL points.

I say before what I say again: I HATE Bigotry in any form....evan an imaginary Role-Playing Game. Even if the Haters in Question belong to my same species.

(Rephrasing cause I didn't mean to make it sound insulting).

You hate bigotry to such an extent that you could possibly say that you yourself are a bigot, no?

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Their are just as many evil non-magic users. If the CS would wake up and use magic, psionics, and have d-bee allies in addition to their great technology they would have a much easier time fighting their enemys. Then again if they were a bit more tolerant they wouldn't have as many enemies.........

That's how mis-haps happen, they let their guard down for one second and next thing you know ther'e 9789878 assasination attempt towards the emporer and the high command by d-bee terrorists whom "still have it out for them".

It's the way it's got to be in order to secure the existence of the human race.

CS did have Mages at one time, and it was said they fought bravely and rally the troops before the blood campaign the cs strike back on the FOM
and those CS mages( who fought side by side with Joseph Prosek the first) are the grandfathers of the vangaurd

[cornholioprime]

Agree with you 1 000 000 % on ALL points.

I say before what I say again: I HATE Bigotry in any form....evan an imaginary Role-Playing Game. Even if the Haters in Question belong to my same species.

(Rephrasing cause I didn't mean to make it sound insulting).

You hate bigotry to such an extent that you could possibly say that you yourself are a bigot, no?

I guess that the Question is supposed to be rhetorical...or funny....because it doesn't seem to make sense on the face of it otherwise (look up the DICTIONARY Definition of Bigotry, please; hating murderers, for example, doesn't make you a Bigot against Murderers.)....

[dark brandon]

Agree with you 1 000 000 % on ALL points.

I say before what I say again: I HATE Bigotry in any form....evan an imaginary Role-Playing Game. Even if the Haters in Question belong to my same species.

(Rephrasing cause I didn't mean to make it sound insulting).

You hate bigotry to such an extent that you could possibly say that you yourself are a bigot, no?

I guess that the Question is supposed to be rhetorical...or funny....because it doesn't seem to make sense on the face of it otherwise (look up the DICTIONARY Definition of Bigotry, please; hating murderers, for example, doesn't make you a Bigot against Murderers.)....

I did, before I posted.

Bigot: One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

big·ot·ry Audio pronunciation of "bigotry" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (bg-tr)
n.

The attitude, state of mind, or behavior characteristic of a bigot; intolerance.

bigotry

n : the intolerance and prejudice of a bigot [syn: dogmatism]

You are intolerant of the intolerant.

[dark brandon]

An intact Tolkeen was useful to contain the Xiticik menace, and if a major war between the bugs and mages ever erupted, the CS could then move in and pick up the pieces.

This was my main problem. It was stated that Xinixtics are Everyone's enemie. CS was nestled in pretty nicely between Lazlo and Tolkeen enough to be buffered by them against the Xinixtics. Defeating Tolkeen opened a hole for the flying bugs.

[cornholioprime]

You have that one nation ruled by those 3 lords...again, Alien intellegence, not Humans. Why would they take part, they want to remain invisible to the world. Then you have Lazlo who stated they(tolkeen) cannot win the war, even with their help.

As far as I know, there are no more nations.

You have smaller ones, but none that will really make any difference in a war. You have Quebec, but dispite their dislike for CS, they are more anti-dbee than they are anti-cs. Even they wouldn't want to see CS fall. Had CS gone to the brink of destruction, I have no doubt that Quebec would have helped the CS out.

And then there is ARCHIE, but he'd rather rule the CS, not see it destoried.

My point in the WHOLE Response that I posted was to show how stupid individual People/Beings/Nations will act........when The Writer wishes it to be so.

Just based on observation of Real World History alone, The CS should have faced multiple Assaults from the combined might of ALL of its enemies, especially since it already made its reputation and intentions known. HOWEVER, the almighty Writer did decree that only Human Nation States like Free Quebec and the CS, and the freakin' NGR, 1000 miles across Demon and Dimensional Anomaly-infested Waters (!!!) would make Mutual Defense Treaties, but NEVER the Magic Nations, oh no. Not even help from Splynncryth, who usually likes to keep Wars going for entertainment and is more than capable of giving Tolkeen enough firepower to fight the CS back without any fear of CS repercussion to himself; Splynncryth, who has his fingers...er, tentacles in almost every other pie on Rifts Earth, suddenly developed a need NOT to meddle, either.

Sounds like a Writer-induced case of Deus ex Machina to me.

And BTW, the Argument "Well the other Creatures aren't Human, so they don't act like we do" Argument doesn't make sense. Virtually EVERY creature in Rifts, from the lowest Goblin to the Alien Intelligences themselves act in very[i] human ways. [i]Disturbingly human ways.....

[cornholioprime]

Agree with you 1 000 000 % on ALL points.

I say before what I say again: I HATE Bigotry in any form....evan an imaginary Role-Playing Game. Even if the Haters in Question belong to my same species.

(Rephrasing cause I didn't mean to make it sound insulting).

You hate bigotry to such an extent that you could possibly say that you yourself are a bigot, no?

I guess that the Question is supposed to be rhetorical...or funny....because it doesn't seem to make sense on the face of it otherwise (look up the DICTIONARY Definition of Bigotry, please; hating murderers, for example, doesn't make you a Bigot against Murderers.)....

I did, before I posted.

Bigot: One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

big·ot·ry Audio pronunciation of "bigotry" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (bg-tr)
n.

The attitude, state of mind, or behavior characteristic of a bigot; intolerance.

bigotry

n : the intolerance and prejudice of a bigot [syn: dogmatism]

You are intolerant of the intolerant.

Once again, you make little sense. You ask us, truly, to tolerate the intolerant??

Then I'd better rethink my bigoted views on Racists, Religious Fanatics, Terrorists, Rapists, and Child Molesters, to name but a few. You've opened my eyes, and I see now how intolerant I was of Bad People....

[Mech-Viper Prime]

An intact Tolkeen was useful to contain the Xiticik menace, and if a major war between the bugs and mages ever erupted, the CS could then move in and pick up the pieces.

This was my main problem. It was stated that Xinixtics are Everyone's enemie. CS was nestled in pretty nicely between Lazlo and Tolkeen enough to be buffered by them against the Xinixtics. Defeating Tolkeen opened a hole for the flying bugs.

and since the CS Xiticix Killer program was cancelled because it failed to get the results they hoped for, time to load up and do it the hard way

[Jesterzzn]

Agree with you 1 000 000 % on ALL points.

I say before what I say again: I HATE Bigotry in any form....evan an imaginary Role-Playing Game. Even if the Haters in Question belong to my same species.

(Rephrasing cause I didn't mean to make it sound insulting).

You hate bigotry to such an extent that you could possibly say that you yourself are a bigot, no?

I guess that the Question is supposed to be rhetorical...or funny....because it doesn't seem to make sense on the face of it otherwise (look up the DICTIONARY Definition of Bigotry, please; hating murderers, for example, doesn't make you a Bigot against Murderers.)....

I did, before I posted.

Bigot: One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

big·ot·ry Audio pronunciation of "bigotry" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (bg-tr)
n.

The attitude, state of mind, or behavior characteristic of a bigot; intolerance.

bigotry

n : the intolerance and prejudice of a bigot [syn: dogmatism]

You are intolerant of the intolerant.

No. This is the kind of circular logic at gets you in trouble at Law School. A law proffesor would tell you to stop being a moron and sit down.

[dark brandon]

Once again, you make little sense. You ask us, truly, to tolerate the intolerant??

Then I'd better rethink my bigoted views on Racists, Religious Fanatics, Terrorists, Rapists, and Child Molesters. You've opened my eyes, and I see now how intolerant I was of Bad People....

You can't fix Intolerance with Intolerance.

[dark brandon]

No. This is the kind of circular logic at gets you in trouble at Law School. A law proffesor would tell you to stop being a moron and sit down.

that's when I would look up and smile and say "that's cool. I'm studding to be a Dr. anyways"...

[cornholioprime]

Once again, you make little sense. You ask us, truly, to tolerate the intolerant??

Then I'd better rethink my bigoted views on Racists, Religious Fanatics, Terrorists, Rapists, and Child Molesters. You've opened my eyes, and I see now how intolerant I was of Bad People....

You can't fix Intolerance with Intolerance.

History has shown us that you usually can't "fix" Intolerant People at all. Societies are usually forced to contain or remove them.

In the meanwhile, I'll continue on in my "unenlightened" ways and do all that I can to make sure that people who often persecute and even kill (yes, kill ) other people who don't look or think like they do when left to their own, are either removed from Society, ostracized, or killed if necessary if they cause harm to others through their words and/or actions.

We used to call Bigots and other intolerant folk "evil." What do you call them??

***AW, come on now. Emper Prosek and the Inner Circle of his High Command aren't really evil. They're just...uh...understood. Yeah, that's it...***

[dark brandon]

In the meanwhile, I'll continue on in my "unenlightened" ways

Never called your ways unenlightend.

and do all that I can to make sure that people who often persecute and even kill (yes, kill ) other people who don't look or think like they do when left to their own, are either removed from Society, ostracized, or killed if necessary if they cause harm to others through their words and/or actions.

I don't think I'd ever kill someone just cause of their words. But that's me.

We used to call Bigots and other intolerant folk "evil." What do you call them??

Your intolerant of the intolerant, But I don't think your evil. (c:

***AW, come on now. Emper Prosek and the Inner Circle of his High Command aren't really evil. They're just...uh...understood. Yeah, that's it...***

Just a game...Relax...breathe....it's ok. You hate fictional characters...Rock on brother man!

[cornholioprime]

In the meanwhile, I'll continue on in my "unenlightened" ways

Never called your ways unenlightend.

and do all that I can to make sure that people who often persecute and even kill (yes, kill ) other people who don't look or think like they do when left to their own, are either removed from Society, ostracized, or killed if necessary if they cause harm to others through their words and/or actions.

I don't think I'd ever kill someone just cause of their words. But that's me.

We used to call Bigots and other intolerant folk "evil." What do you call them??

Your intolerant of the intolerant, But I don't think your evil. (c:

***AW, come on now. Emper Prosek and the Inner Circle of his High Command aren't really evil. They're just...uh...understood. Yeah, that's it...***

Just a game...Relax...breathe....it's ok. You hate fictional characters...Rock on brother man!

Valium drip commencing....yoga position assumed..counting to 10....

There. I feel much better.......


Sorry.

[dark brandon]

In the meanwhile, I'll continue on in my "unenlightened" ways

Never called your ways unenlightend.

and do all that I can to make sure that people who often persecute and even kill (yes, kill ) other people who don't look or think like they do when left to their own, are either removed from Society, ostracized, or killed if necessary if they cause harm to others through their words and/or actions.

I don't think I'd ever kill someone just cause of their words. But that's me.

We used to call Bigots and other intolerant folk "evil." What do you call them??

Your intolerant of the intolerant, But I don't think your evil. (c:

***AW, come on now. Emper Prosek and the Inner Circle of his High Command aren't really evil. They're just...uh...understood. Yeah, that's it...***

Just a game...Relax...breathe....it's ok. You hate fictional characters...Rock on brother man!

Valium drip commencing....yoga position assumed..counting to 10....

There. I feel much better.......


Sorry.

Your still not evil, doesn't matter how long you yoga for!

[AllMightyRCB]

I support the CS. All those pesky supernatural vermin shall be crushed beneath the Coalition's mighty boot and humans shall rule with impunity.