Ninja borg -or- full conversion ninja

[Sentinel]

I imagine this is how ninja borgs get started in the first place: they begin life as a tech-ninja.
A Mystic (traditional) ninja would not become a borg.

[Dr. Doom III]

A Mystic Ninja who became a borg would lose all his mystical powers and most likely kill himself.

[Killer Cyborg]

Becoming a Ninja-Borg likely requires a lot of training, even if you were a ninja to start with.
You have to get used to your body working in vastly different ways, you weigh 1000 lbs so most of your previous stealth skills won't be of any use, and your sense of touch is cut in half.

Basically, you'd have to switch to the new OCC using the multi-classing rules, and all your old ninja skills would be frozen until you reached an equivilant level as a Ninja-Borg.

[Svartalf]

Ninja borgs are a conversion done only on Republic techno ninja.

A traditional mystic ninja from the empire would die rather than be subjected to such invasive treatment, and if converted anyway, would lose all its special powers, and probably find a way to destruction in short order to wash out the shame and horror of his new condition. Remember that citizens from the Empire are for the most part virulent technophobes, and ninja, given their intense training and reliance on mystical powers would be among the most hardline, even if they might get pragmatic enough to use modern weapons when it is deemed useful. Any invasive implantation, or anything threatening their wholeness or mystic powers is out and out, though.

[NoJack]

I don't see why the Ninja borg is the only one to suffer the loss of feeling on conversion. The mining borgs in New west, and the Cyborg Shocktroopers from Russia (where you would expect it) don't suffer from that.
As a matter of fact all of the Cybernetics in the Japan book were a little off kilter. A 50' full conversion dragon borg, but it only does SDC because it's built around an SDC being. Give me a break.

[Killer Cyborg]

I don't see why the Ninja borg is the only one to suffer the loss of feeling on conversion. The mining borgs in New west, and the Cyborg Shocktroopers from Russia (where you would expect it) don't suffer from that.

I don't own those books, so I can't say if they're an exception.
According to the main book, Full Conversion Borgs have a simulated sense of touch that is only 43% of normal.
Also, they're -40% to prowl.

As a matter of fact all of the Cybernetics in the Japan book were a little off kilter. A 50' full conversion dragon borg, but it only does SDC because it's built around an SDC being. Give me a break.

I've always thought it was stupid that Borgs didn't just use the Robotic Strength tables.

[NoJack]

Borgs are supposed to use the robotic strength table, only in Japan do their borgs suck.

[Killer Cyborg]

Borgs are supposed to use the robotic strength table, only in Japan do their borgs suck.

List the book, page number, and quote that says this.

[Thinyser]

Borgs are supposed to use the robotic strength table, only in Japan do their borgs suck.

List the book, page number, and quote that says this.

It never specifically states that it is robotic in the books as far as i can see but looking in Triax a normal punch from a borg often does MD (power punches always do MD) and normal human PS no matter how high never does MD (even on a power punch) and since it is obviously not supernatural PS it must be robotic right?

[Guest]

I can list the section in the Bionics Sourcebook that says under the russian combat borgs that only heavy duty, bulky, special combat borgs get robot p.s.

though, I would think the dragon borgs would fall into that category...I love the flamecloud, btw

[Killer Cyborg]

Borgs are supposed to use the robotic strength table, only in Japan do their borgs suck.

List the book, page number, and quote that says this.

It never specifically states that it is robotic in the books as far as i can see but looking in Triax a normal punch from a borg often does MD (power punches always do MD) and normal human PS no matter how high never does MD (even on a power punch) and since it is obviously not supernatural PS it must be robotic right?

You'd think.
But...

CB1, p. 24-25
"Characters who possess an enhanced or increased PS because of unusual genetic mutation/augmentation, bionics, or exoskeleton (light power armor or mechanically enhanced body armor) can inflict mega-damage, but only when they use a power punch."
PS 24 does 1 MD on a power punch that takes 2 attacks.
PS 25-27 does 1d4
and so on.

Also:

"Borgs, although mechanical and robot-like, do not generally possess the same physical strength and power as a complete (or giante) robot, consequently they do not usually deliver megadamage punches. Most partial reconstruction Borgs can only have a maximum PS of 20 and inflict no megadamage Full Conversion Borgs of great strength can deliver a mega-damage power punch or kick if they have a PS of 24 or higher! Use the tables above."

These tables are later reprinted (and modified) in the Rifts GMG, p. 24, under the heading "Augmented Humans (Juicers & Crazies), Mutants, Cyborgs & Exoskeletons."

[Guest]

Yeah, they screwed the metaphorical pooch there...

Ok, we've got all the strength and damage tables worked out where they make sense across the entire system...now let's arbitrarily exclude cyborgs from it!

[Svartalf]

I don't see why the Ninja borg is the only one to suffer the loss of feeling on conversion. The mining borgs in New west, and the Cyborg Shocktroopers from Russia (where you would expect it) don't suffer from that.

I don't own those books, so I can't say if they're an exception.
According to the main book, Full Conversion Borgs have a simulated sense of touch that is only 43% of normal.
Also, they're -40% to prowl.

As a matter of fact all of the Cybernetics in the Japan book were a little off kilter. A 50' full conversion dragon borg, but it only does SDC because it's built around an SDC being. Give me a break.

I've always thought it was stupid that Borgs didn't just use the Robotic Strength tables.

They are no exception... but since they follow rules expounded in RMB on that point, it just wasn't specifically noted down... NoJack is just mistaken there

Also, remember they just have cyborg augmented strength... not supernatural or even robotic level... tat means that, at the typical 30 they have, they can do 1d6 MD with a power punch (as per Cyber Handbook p 71)... and it's normal they don't use the robotic strength table, they are built to mesh with flesh (even if not a lot of it, they still need to have the life support equipment to sustain it) so they can't be as efficient and strong as a true robot is.

[Dr. Doom III]

Borgs are supposed to use the robotic strength table, only in Japan do their borgs suck.

Borgs get bionic strength unless it says otherwise.