Galactic Travel via Psionics
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Stumped
Got me on that one...
I guess you would have to factor subjective Vs. objective time for astral travel.
As I posted much earlier in my UWW warlock Navy R&D thread, using the border astral would effectively double travel speed, IF you were using a TW drive-system on a vessel.
As for a psionic just 'blipping' from one planet to another, with no aid...hmm.
I'd say 1D6 days per 100 LY subjective time as a start. This is me just throwing numbers out at random though. I guess it's up to the individual GM what seems fair.
In theory, an astral travller could just 'walk the dragon roads' for a subjective hour and arrive anywhere in the Tri-Gallactic systems, or hell, even other dimensions. It's all a matter of power scale \ game ballance.
I guess you would have to factor subjective Vs. objective time for astral travel.
As I posted much earlier in my UWW warlock Navy R&D thread, using the border astral would effectively double travel speed, IF you were using a TW drive-system on a vessel.
As for a psionic just 'blipping' from one planet to another, with no aid...hmm.
I'd say 1D6 days per 100 LY subjective time as a start. This is me just throwing numbers out at random though. I guess it's up to the individual GM what seems fair.
In theory, an astral travller could just 'walk the dragon roads' for a subjective hour and arrive anywhere in the Tri-Gallactic systems, or hell, even other dimensions. It's all a matter of power scale \ game ballance.
Bind the body to the opened mind
Bind the body to the opened mind
I dream of towers in a world consumed
A void in the sentient sky
I dream of fissures across the moon
Leaves of the lotus rise
~Dream Again By Miracle of Sound
Bind the body to the opened mind
I dream of towers in a world consumed
A void in the sentient sky
I dream of fissures across the moon
Leaves of the lotus rise
~Dream Again By Miracle of Sound
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gadrin wrote:
Right now I have a Shifter using the Dreamstream, via DreamWindow spell (only 30 PPE) where he's forced to make contacts on various worlds and then do his travelling via that method (which is much cheaper).
His Mind Bleeder buddy has Astral Projection and can learn Astral Navigation (and eventually Astral Transference).
I thought the dreamstreams were seperate, every universe has one but you can't travel from a guys dreams on rifts to a guys dream on Nightbane, can you I thought hey both have the dreamsteam but since it existsinside everyone on a world there all seperate connect only in one dimesion One for phase world, one for rifts, one for nightbane.
Am I wrong?
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Well we run the Astral Plane as the Psychic's domain. Mages can get their with the funny little tricks and and spells, but they are outgunned and really shouldn't bother. Unless they have a psychic to keep them safe.
Everything touches the astral plane. Well, most everthing touches the Astral Plane. There are always exceptions.
What happens to a devine realm or a hell when the gods and demons there no longer hold sway in the mortal mind? People forget, stop worshiping, stop fearing, or die off. That PPE is no longer pumped into the belife system that held these demons and gods in power. They float off into the astral plane to fester and rot.
I've seen **** that would turn you white! - Winston Zeddemore, Ghostbusters.
But not just the realms of heaven and hell are out there. So to are the gods and demons. No longer worshiped, no longer remembered. Shadows of their former selves. Languishing in a forever sea of nothing or sitting atop thrones in places no one has spoken about in millenia. Nothing. Second after second of nothing. Decade apon decade of nothing. The mind goes. Becomes trapped by the maddening nothing and fading memories. These things are out there, and are the reason why you don't go into the deep astral plane without good cause and some serious power.
Getting there. How does a psychic get into the plane, physically?
That kind of depends on your GM. There aren't any rules to my knowledge beyond the standard making mages or random rifts do it for you. To facilitate our magic hatin' psionic dominating play style, we have the astral gate. It's a master/super psionic ability, cost 100 ISP to activate, requires 1d4x10 minutes of meditation and a large reflective surface such as a pool or mirror to act as the gate. It must be big enough for whatever it is one wants to send through to the plane. IE, a person requires a man sized mirror, while a jet fighter or really big demon lord would require a really big mirror, like the side of a mirrored building. Telepathy can be used with this allowing the character with Astral Gate to tap other psychics (a character with ISP AND a psionic power) to contribute ISP to the opening, and all invovled must meditate (and hold open/pay maintainance on) telepathy. Characters with the mirror walk ability but are away from NB Earth/the night lands, who use their mirror walk will end up on the plane instead.
Astral projection when one is one the astral plane will either allow the psychic to explore the plane as if it were the real world (someone on earth using AP to explore the same physcial realm only now that one is on the plane, it is their base state) or can project into some other plane (like where they came from) as if projecting to the astral plane. Use the same rules, just flip them around for point of origin.
Leaving the astral plane works the same. You just need to find a mirror on the target plane you want to enter, then spend the points and meditate. And hope nothing really really nasty comes by while your defenses are limited...
I said that mages don't belong here. There is a reason for that. Psychics can manifest their powers in a varity of ways. Summon stuff up, like astral golems, change the sceenery to fit their moods. That includeds changing the laws that govern magic.
A psychic manifesting their will over the plane has to decide on the law that varies from the plane, change it (burns one action doing so) and has to pay one action each melee they wish to keep the effect going. Really powerful effects might cost more actions, depending on the GM's ruling. One can't cancel the laws governing psionics here or any other ISP based power. Range of the effect is the psychic's ME x10 feet+10 feet per level of experience Breaking the law can be done, if the law breaker makes a saving throw against psionics. Machines without wills of their own (like a car or gun) in violation of the law will fail to function but be unharmed. They just don't work here. Machines with wills of their own, due to possesion or mental transferance, would use the relivant psi-save of the controling entity (Skelebots would get a save but a Triax mind transferance battle bot would). The second the psychic stops thinking about (because of death or knock out darts in the ass or what have you) or just lets the effect lapse, the new laws end and astral plane immedately reasserts itself. No, you can't do it in someone's astral domain.
Psychics trying to compete with each other over a control of a law roll a d20 +Character level+ psi-saving throw modifier, highest number wins. A new check can be made each melee.
All other astral rules hold as normal. The above is my effort to make what we saw in psy-scape, the city, fit with other sources and Between the Shadows.
Everything touches the astral plane. Well, most everthing touches the Astral Plane. There are always exceptions.
What happens to a devine realm or a hell when the gods and demons there no longer hold sway in the mortal mind? People forget, stop worshiping, stop fearing, or die off. That PPE is no longer pumped into the belife system that held these demons and gods in power. They float off into the astral plane to fester and rot.
I've seen **** that would turn you white! - Winston Zeddemore, Ghostbusters.
But not just the realms of heaven and hell are out there. So to are the gods and demons. No longer worshiped, no longer remembered. Shadows of their former selves. Languishing in a forever sea of nothing or sitting atop thrones in places no one has spoken about in millenia. Nothing. Second after second of nothing. Decade apon decade of nothing. The mind goes. Becomes trapped by the maddening nothing and fading memories. These things are out there, and are the reason why you don't go into the deep astral plane without good cause and some serious power.
Getting there. How does a psychic get into the plane, physically?
That kind of depends on your GM. There aren't any rules to my knowledge beyond the standard making mages or random rifts do it for you. To facilitate our magic hatin' psionic dominating play style, we have the astral gate. It's a master/super psionic ability, cost 100 ISP to activate, requires 1d4x10 minutes of meditation and a large reflective surface such as a pool or mirror to act as the gate. It must be big enough for whatever it is one wants to send through to the plane. IE, a person requires a man sized mirror, while a jet fighter or really big demon lord would require a really big mirror, like the side of a mirrored building. Telepathy can be used with this allowing the character with Astral Gate to tap other psychics (a character with ISP AND a psionic power) to contribute ISP to the opening, and all invovled must meditate (and hold open/pay maintainance on) telepathy. Characters with the mirror walk ability but are away from NB Earth/the night lands, who use their mirror walk will end up on the plane instead.
Astral projection when one is one the astral plane will either allow the psychic to explore the plane as if it were the real world (someone on earth using AP to explore the same physcial realm only now that one is on the plane, it is their base state) or can project into some other plane (like where they came from) as if projecting to the astral plane. Use the same rules, just flip them around for point of origin.
Leaving the astral plane works the same. You just need to find a mirror on the target plane you want to enter, then spend the points and meditate. And hope nothing really really nasty comes by while your defenses are limited...
I said that mages don't belong here. There is a reason for that. Psychics can manifest their powers in a varity of ways. Summon stuff up, like astral golems, change the sceenery to fit their moods. That includeds changing the laws that govern magic.
A psychic manifesting their will over the plane has to decide on the law that varies from the plane, change it (burns one action doing so) and has to pay one action each melee they wish to keep the effect going. Really powerful effects might cost more actions, depending on the GM's ruling. One can't cancel the laws governing psionics here or any other ISP based power. Range of the effect is the psychic's ME x10 feet+10 feet per level of experience Breaking the law can be done, if the law breaker makes a saving throw against psionics. Machines without wills of their own (like a car or gun) in violation of the law will fail to function but be unharmed. They just don't work here. Machines with wills of their own, due to possesion or mental transferance, would use the relivant psi-save of the controling entity (Skelebots would get a save but a Triax mind transferance battle bot would). The second the psychic stops thinking about (because of death or knock out darts in the ass or what have you) or just lets the effect lapse, the new laws end and astral plane immedately reasserts itself. No, you can't do it in someone's astral domain.
Psychics trying to compete with each other over a control of a law roll a d20 +Character level+ psi-saving throw modifier, highest number wins. A new check can be made each melee.
All other astral rules hold as normal. The above is my effort to make what we saw in psy-scape, the city, fit with other sources and Between the Shadows.
When I look in the dictionary and see the word Cool...I see Taffy's picture...-Shady Slug
Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power. -Abraham Lincoln
Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power. -Abraham Lincoln
Judas wrote:gadrin wrote:
Right now I have a Shifter using the Dreamstream, via DreamWindow spell (only 30 PPE) where he's forced to make contacts on various worlds and then do his travelling via that method (which is much cheaper).
His Mind Bleeder buddy has Astral Projection and can learn Astral Navigation (and eventually Astral Transference).
I thought the dreamstreams were separate, every universe has one but you can't travel from a guys dreams on rifts to a guys dream on Nightbane, can you I thought hey both have the dreamsteam but since it existsinside everyone on a world there all separate connect only in one dimension One for phase world, one for rifts, one for nightbane.
Am I wrong?
Each dimension's dreamstream is unique...each world's separated, and (presumably) segregated into sentient/non-sentient (ie: you could never EVER access your dog's dreams via the dreamstream...). Additionally, if I'm remembering properly, each person's dream pool is not always in the same "physical" location in the dreamstream. Finally, accessing the dreamstream via the Astral Realm is next to impossible (again, if memory serves).
So...your Shifter can access the dreamstream for his world/dimension period. He can NOT "contact" anyone there without assistance or without figuring a way into the person's dream pool. As for communicating this way...most of us forget 90-100% of a dream's contents within minutes of waking. Plus, I believe that the experience of being forceably shunted out of a person's pool when they wake is supposed to be semi-traumatic...or if it isn't, it should be...
The 'stream is an unconcious creation of the peoples of a dimension, and is "common" to only THAT dimension. The energy released by dreams is what maintains it, but like most forms of energy, can not contact other dimensions...just like the vast majority of Rifts can not be seen through or used as a "window" without sticking your head through.
Fnord
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Cool...I've been FAQed... atleast twice!
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"May your day be as eventful as you wish, and may your life only hurt as much as it has to." - Me...
Normality is Relative, Sanity is Conceptual, and I am neither.
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gadrin wrote:Taffy's rant was all and good, but IIRC mages in HU Revised (before 2e and the PPE system) all had the Astral Projection ability. So while Psyscape is "tailored" to the psychic, I certainly don't see it as being exclusive. Anyway I'm interested in travel between planets.
Exclusive? No. Dangerous for non-psychics, absolutely. What matters in the astral plane is force of will. Everything else is subject to that.
As for astral trave between planets, that's pretty straight forward. You cross into the plane, travel from the near plane of your point of origin through the deep plane, until you come to the near plane of the planet your trying to get to, and then cross over to the target planet. That can be pulled from Between the Shadows. Of course, making it from A to B without getting eaten is the trick...
When I look in the dictionary and see the word Cool...I see Taffy's picture...-Shady Slug
Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power. -Abraham Lincoln
Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power. -Abraham Lincoln
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The Artist Formerly wrote:gadrin wrote:Taffy's rant was all and good, but IIRC mages in HU Revised (before 2e and the PPE system) all had the Astral Projection ability. So while Psyscape is "tailored" to the psychic, I certainly don't see it as being exclusive. Anyway I'm interested in travel between planets.
Exclusive? No. Dangerous for non-psychics, absolutely. What matters in the astral plane is force of will. Everything else is subject to that.
As for astral trave between planets, that's pretty straight forward. You cross into the plane, travel from the near plane of your point of origin through the deep plane, until you come to the near plane of the planet your trying to get to, and then cross over to the target planet. That can be pulled from Between the Shadows. Of course, making it from A to B without getting eaten is the trick...
if so, wouldn't the Noro race (Phase World) have been exploring other worlds long before they deveolped interstellar craft?
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gadrin wrote:Taffy's rant was all and good, but IIRC mages in HU Revised (before 2e and the PPE system) all had the Astral Projection ability. So while Psyscape is "tailored" to the psychic, I certainly don't see it as being exclusive. Anyway I'm interested in travel between planets.
Hmmm...I did not know that. My first HU book is Revised.
For planet to planet travel, you have a natural limiter...travel times. We're talking light YEARS between systems. Even with the increased speeds available in the Astral, and with the time effects for being on the astral plane...we're still talking DECADES to reach the nearest world in Astral Time. For intra-system travel, you could probably expect to go (taking a VERY rough guess/stab in the dark) 1 LS per DAY of Astral Travel...that makes a round trip to Sol and back to Terra would take 480 days.
Mind you, I'm pulling these figures out of thin air, but still...distances still have meaning, even on the Astral.
gadrin wrote:Borast -- I'm not sure that applies. Certainly the people in the CCW can dream about their opponents in the TGE, or the UWW or just about anywhere once they have knowledge of them. I think I'll pass on your explanation.
True...they can. However, the Emperor of the TGE people have nightmares about and "meet" in their 'pool is NOT the real thing, and they would be unable to contact him that way, since each person's 'pool is self contained, and would likely ONLY link to someone close, or someone with whom you have intimate knowledge (alternate meaing).
Easiest way to manage it remotely is with some very efficient scrying magics...and if your have scrying magics that can give real-time contact over inter-galactic distances...why in hell are you wasting the time and effort in haunting dreams? Telecommunications breakthrough...Blackmail opportunities...etc. Otherwise, if they want to terrorise people on another planet, they will have to go visit said planet...or atleast be within a few light seconds at most!
gadrin wrote:BTW -- I'm not talking about crossing into the Astral from the Dreamstream or visa-versa, I was talking about two separate means of travel.
Ah...my mistake. Combination of factors I guess...bad lighting, was tired, not paying as much attention as I should... etc.
So...Astral...YES. (Although possibly FASTER to do it via technology or magics in the "real world).
Dreamstream...no. Each planet's peoples generate their own unique "dreamstream" and they don't cross connect. Best you might be able to do is planet to orbit. The MOST you MAY be able to do is something like the Earth-Moon distances if both are heavily populated (the larger the pop, the "thicker" the dreamstream).
Fnord
Cool...I've been FAQed... atleast twice!
.sig count to date: 2
"May your day be as eventful as you wish, and may your life only hurt as much as it has to." - Me...
Normality is Relative, Sanity is Conceptual, and I am neither.
Cool...I've been FAQed... atleast twice!
.sig count to date: 2
"May your day be as eventful as you wish, and may your life only hurt as much as it has to." - Me...
Normality is Relative, Sanity is Conceptual, and I am neither.
- The Artist Formerly
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Nekira Sudacne wrote:The Artist Formerly wrote:gadrin wrote:Taffy's rant was all and good, but IIRC mages in HU Revised (before 2e and the PPE system) all had the Astral Projection ability. So while Psyscape is "tailored" to the psychic, I certainly don't see it as being exclusive. Anyway I'm interested in travel between planets.
Exclusive? No. Dangerous for non-psychics, absolutely. What matters in the astral plane is force of will. Everything else is subject to that.
As for astral trave between planets, that's pretty straight forward. You cross into the plane, travel from the near plane of your point of origin through the deep plane, until you come to the near plane of the planet your trying to get to, and then cross over to the target planet. That can be pulled from Between the Shadows. Of course, making it from A to B without getting eaten is the trick...
if so, wouldn't the Noro race (Phase World) have been exploring other worlds long before they deveolped interstellar craft?
I suppose. Maybe they just missed it. The formula for gun poweder has always been the same, but no one had it until a chinese alchemist was screwing around one day.
Last edited by The Artist Formerly on Mon Feb 21, 2005 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
When I look in the dictionary and see the word Cool...I see Taffy's picture...-Shady Slug
Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power. -Abraham Lincoln
Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power. -Abraham Lincoln
gadrin wrote:the only trouble with the "1 LS per day" is that it makes Astral Travel linear -- and correllate to a fixed distance, something I don't think is correct.
BTW -- I'm not bagging on you -- my first thoughts were along that line too.
By its nature the Astral Plane defies logic or at least the physicals laws of time/space that we know of on the material plane. I don't believe that once an astral traveller moves from point A to point B that the next time, he just follows the same directions. I always thought the "plane of thought" is constantly shifting and distorting, such that next time it may take longer or shorter than the previous trip.
Maybe I need to use the VOID after all. This will prevent it from being just a "spend X hours in the Astral and you're there" type of situation. If you survive the trip to the void (not to mention finding it in the first place) then you can move to where you want to go.
Man that sounds dangerous !
Using the void for interplanetary travel is actualy the basis for one of my campaigns side-story arcs.
Believe you me; the ammount of spells needed to survive the trip is staggering...but doable
Read C.S. Friedman's 'This Alien Shore'; I took the concept of putting any non-psi passengersin stasis to avoid being detected by the void-mantids.
Made for some great role-playing when the PC's became paranoid about being put under.
Bind the body to the opened mind
Bind the body to the opened mind
I dream of towers in a world consumed
A void in the sentient sky
I dream of fissures across the moon
Leaves of the lotus rise
~Dream Again By Miracle of Sound
Bind the body to the opened mind
I dream of towers in a world consumed
A void in the sentient sky
I dream of fissures across the moon
Leaves of the lotus rise
~Dream Again By Miracle of Sound
gadrin wrote:DhAkael wrote:Using the void for interplanetary travel is actualy the basis for one of my campaigns side-story arcs.
Believe you me; the ammount of spells needed to survive the trip is staggering...but doable
Read C.S. Friedman's 'This Alien Shore'; I took the concept of putting any non-psi passengersin stasis to avoid being detected by the void-mantids.
Made for some great role-playing when the PC's became paranoid about being put under.
please post any nuances or issues you had with GMing the campaign. I'd be interested in hearing about them.
I have to re-read the Void/Astral section of BTS again.
over the weekend I worked up the preliminary stats on a Astral Domain created by an Astral Lord and a group of followers (5 total)
donated 240 PPE and got 600 creation points.
[this is all very non-standard]
on a domain, shaped like a space station, that exists in the outer layer and can co-exist with normal space (much like astrally projecting and coexisting).
I added in the ability to travel (mach one) and the ability to Astral Transfer into "normal space" much like a Millek would for 100 PPE or 100 ISP per hour. it's roughly a 10 to 15 story structure.
sorta like a "cloaked ship" (if you've seen ST:Voyager "Think Tank" then you know what I mean).
It's still in the experimental stage but I think it's workable (it's more of an NPC item than for PCs).
Sure thing. Once I have a few spare moments to go over my notes that is
Right now, starting a game of Xenosaga 2...adictive (and frustarting) most of my mental capacity is kinda tied up in figuring out the new combat system...
Watch this space though. I'll have a decent thumbnail of the trials & tribulations of 'The Void runner' for you in a couple of days.
Bind the body to the opened mind
Bind the body to the opened mind
I dream of towers in a world consumed
A void in the sentient sky
I dream of fissures across the moon
Leaves of the lotus rise
~Dream Again By Miracle of Sound
Bind the body to the opened mind
I dream of towers in a world consumed
A void in the sentient sky
I dream of fissures across the moon
Leaves of the lotus rise
~Dream Again By Miracle of Sound
- GaredBattlespike
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I believe that you can get from planet to planet with just Psionics. Have a friendly Astral Lord use his/her Astral Transferance Power upon you and you gear(this will be expensive around 20-50 pounds of gear each!) and just using the Astral Lord Power of Astral Navigation (No I.S.P. cost for Lords). Note that I pointed out that this is very, very expensive for the permanent I.S.P. cost on your gear, but it can work(just not very cost effective). The alterative is to use a Domain Portal to the Lord's Domain and then another built(and paid for in Creation Points) to take you to your destination. Easier than the first way, and facilitates Trans-Astral Trade, you know?
"Save ARCHIE, save the world..."
-----------------------------
-Sigging of rungok-
-Scenario 2-
(Demon 1):Woah, the hell happened to you?
(Demon 2):got my ass kicked by some guy with a knife and a handgun
(Demon 1):What? you gotta be kidding me!
(Demon 2):Thats what i was thinking...
anapuna wrote:
i rarely play a mage, but when i do... i do what GaredBattlespike does.
or i am a TW.
-----------------------------
-Sigging of rungok-
-Scenario 2-
(Demon 1):Woah, the hell happened to you?
(Demon 2):got my ass kicked by some guy with a knife and a handgun
(Demon 1):What? you gotta be kidding me!
(Demon 2):Thats what i was thinking...
anapuna wrote:
i rarely play a mage, but when i do... i do what GaredBattlespike does.
or i am a TW.
- GaredBattlespike
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- Location: In my NG-X9 Samson Power Armor
I believe that is exactly correct. I had intended to explain that, but I ran out of time to post(using a library terminal,PC at home virused to the Demon-Realms).
"Save ARCHIE, save the world..."
-----------------------------
-Sigging of rungok-
-Scenario 2-
(Demon 1):Woah, the hell happened to you?
(Demon 2):got my ass kicked by some guy with a knife and a handgun
(Demon 1):What? you gotta be kidding me!
(Demon 2):Thats what i was thinking...
anapuna wrote:
i rarely play a mage, but when i do... i do what GaredBattlespike does.
or i am a TW.
-----------------------------
-Sigging of rungok-
-Scenario 2-
(Demon 1):Woah, the hell happened to you?
(Demon 2):got my ass kicked by some guy with a knife and a handgun
(Demon 1):What? you gotta be kidding me!
(Demon 2):Thats what i was thinking...
anapuna wrote:
i rarely play a mage, but when i do... i do what GaredBattlespike does.
or i am a TW.