Skill Programs Redux

[Guest]

Okay, there have been hundreds of skill programs created for N&S, HU, and other Palladium games. (Seriously, we had topics in here with hundreds by several different authors over the years.) But I'm sure we haven't seen all of them. So, let's start up and old classic, with a new twist and see what skill programs are out there. C'mon folks, share those skill programs, you know you want to.

[Drakenred®™©]

[Guest]

:thwak:

Great, spam, just what we needed.

[Sentinel]

Actually, I like John Philpotts' Military Skill Programs found in the Rifter #25.

[Natalya]

I'd like to see the Espionage and Military programs updated to reflect newer skills found in some of the other books. I'd also like to see more Scientific programs, and some programs dedicated to the "covers" found in NSS. For example, what skills would be good for a wine buyer?

[Sentinel]

I'd like to see the Espionage and Military programs updated to reflect newer skills found in some of the other books. I'd also like to see more Scientific programs, and some programs dedicated to the "covers" found in NSS. For example, what skills would be good for a wine buyer?

Well, a modification of Brewing (a medical skill, I found it first in the Rifts' GMG).
A variation on cooking prehaps (you need to know what wine compliments what dinner).
First Aid (to recognise alcohol poisoning).
Identify Plants and Fruits (mostly for the grapes).
Language: French, Italian, and anything snooty.

Every wine expert I've ever met (and I've met quite a few) had an excellent command of history.

[sinestus]

just what the world needs... more skill programs...


wouldn't the system be better off with letting skills be more generalized...

[Drakenred®™©]

:thwak:

Great, spam, just what we needed.

Serisouly theirs 1,000,000,001 OCCs and skill packages in all of paladium, most of which are little more than

OCC XYZ gets a 5% bonuse in Skill A and a 10 % Bonus in skill B while OOC XYZ+1 has a 10% bonus in skill A and a 5% bonus in skill B and a neet nifty diferent New and improved XP table that um well you need 100 more points to get to level 2 but 50 less XP to get to level 3 and 4 but 50 more XP for each subsiquent level

that its too the point of me not wanting to see yet another OCC or skill package.

So Ironicaly, my thought when I saw this topic was exactly the same as your response to my useing that emote

Great, more OCC spam, just what we needed.

[Sentinel]

just what the world needs... more skill programs...


wouldn't the system be better off with letting skills be more generalized...

Or, have the programs be able to be customised?

[sinestus]

just what the world needs... more skill programs...


wouldn't the system be better off with letting skills be more generalized...

Or, have the programs be able to be customised?

well, in HU they are,...
a "program" can simply be 4 skills from a single skill catagoy...

[Sentinel]

just what the world needs... more skill programs...


wouldn't the system be better off with letting skills be more generalized...

Or, have the programs be able to be customised?

well, in HU they are,...
a "program" can simply be 4 skills from a single skill catagoy...

I like the Education Bonus system of HUII, although I find myself using N&SS for military and espionage programs.

[Guest]

:thwak:

Great, spam, just what we needed.

Serisouly theirs 1,000,000,001 OCCs and skill packages in all of paladium, most of which are little more than

OCC XYZ gets a 5% bonuse in Skill A and a 10 % Bonus in skill B while OOC XYZ+1 has a 10% bonus in skill A and a 5% bonus in skill B and a neet nifty diferent New and improved XP table that um well you need 100 more points to get to level 2 but 50 less XP to get to level 3 and 4 but 50 more XP for each subsiquent level

that its too the point of me not wanting to see yet another OCC or skill package.

So Ironicaly, my thought when I saw this topic was exactly the same as your response to my useing that emote

Great, more OCC spam, just what we needed.

So basically, you have no idea what skill programs are. They are most definately NOT OCCs.

[Sentinel]

I like the Samurai and Mystic Ninja from Rifts' Japan as an alternative to the DMA from N&SS if those are the types of martial artists I'm making. The Bishamon and Sohei aren't bad either: without going crazy on skills, those are the types of character I wanted to build in N&SS (except with two styles instead of one).
I like a Samurai with both Zanji and Jujutsu, but I am more wanting the domestic skills and wilderness skills (and, as more than two secondaries at level 1) than I am wanting to load up on combat bonuses. I just feel that the martial arts for DMAs who aren't monastic bumpkins is as much for character type and background as for combat.

If those OCCs could be used as templates for taking (appropriate) skills for other DMAs, then I say use them.
Otherwise, re-do the DMA, and get off the monk stereotype.

[Guest]

I like the Samurai and Mystic Ninja from Rifts' Japan as an alternative to the DMA from N&SS if those are the types of martial artists I'm making.

I have no problem with theme martial artist OCCs, but the Samurai and Mystic Ninja from Rifts Japan aren't exactly the best sources to use for those two types.

The Bishamon and Sohei aren't bad either: without going crazy on skills, those are the types of character I wanted to build in N&SS (except with two styles instead of one).

Eh, the general research in RJ wasn't all that great. However, the concept was awesome.

I like a Samurai with both Zanji and Jujutsu, but I am more wanting the domestic skills and wilderness skills (and, as more than two secondaries at level 1) than I am wanting to load up on combat bonuses. I just feel that the martial arts for DMAs who aren't monastic bumpkins is as much for character type and background as for combat.

I really should clean up and post my Japanese OCCs one of these days. They cover everything you want in an awesome manner.

If those OCCs could be used as templates for taking (appropriate) skills for other DMAs, then I say use them.
Otherwise, re-do the DMA, and get off the monk stereotype.

Actually the DMA is supposed to be a monk stereotype, and there's nothing wrong with that. What N&S needs is more theme martial artists that focus on different aspects of martial arts. Knights and Samurai and Rajputs and Stick Fighters (see Rifter #18 ) and Musketeers and the like.

[Sentinel]

I like the Samurai and Mystic Ninja from Rifts' Japan as an alternative to the DMA from N&SS if those are the types of martial artists I'm making.

I have no problem with theme martial artist OCCs, but the Samurai and Mystic Ninja from Rifts Japan aren't exactly the best sources to use for those two types.

It was all I had to work with.

The Bishamon and Sohei aren't bad either: without going crazy on skills, those are the types of character I wanted to build in N&SS (except with two styles instead of one).

Eh, the general research in RJ wasn't all that great. However, the concept was awesome.

I agree.

I like a Samurai with both Zanji and Jujutsu, but I am more wanting the domestic skills and wilderness skills (and, as more than two secondaries at level 1) than I am wanting to load up on combat bonuses. I just feel that the martial arts for DMAs who aren't monastic bumpkins is as much for character type and background as for combat.

I really should clean up and post my Japanese OCCs one of these days. They cover everything you want in an awesome manner.

See, this is why everyone (me included) wants to see your stuff in a Rifter, at the very least.

If those OCCs could be used as templates for taking (appropriate) skills for other DMAs, then I say use them.
Otherwise, re-do the DMA, and get off the monk stereotype.

Actually the DMA is supposed to be a monk stereotype, and there's nothing wrong with that. What N&S needs is more theme martial artists that focus on different aspects of martial arts. Knights and Samurai and Rajputs and Stick Fighters (see Rifter #18 ) and Musketeers and the like.

So, what about RL DMAs, like Parker, Zink, Dacascos and others? Should they be momk stereotypes as well?
I think the DMA as a monk, but I just don't want that to be all the DMA is.
Nor do I want to clutter the game up with too many specific OCCs if one good adaptable OCC archtype can be arrived upon.

[Guest]

See, this is why everyone (me included) wants to see your stuff in a Rifter, at the very least.

Why, when you can see it for free on my website?

So, what about RL DMAs, like Parker, Zink, Dacascos and others?

They aren't DMAs. They didn't spend their whole lives in a monastery and suddenly decide to one day come out and join the rest of the world.

Should they be momk stereotypes as well?
I think the DMA as a monk, but I just don't want that to be all the DMA is.
Nor do I want to clutter the game up with too many specific OCCs if one good adaptable OCC archtype can be arrived upon.

That's why there are skill programs. However, there's a big difference between the way the DMA is and WMA is. One of the minor reasons I don't really use either in my games anymore.

[Sentinel]

Kuseru Satsujin wrote:

Why, when you can see it for free on my website?

For the same reasons I buy CDs instead of downloading them for free: to support the artist.

They aren't DMAs. They didn't spend their whole lives in a monastery and suddenly decide to one day come out and join the rest of the world.

Here we disagree on what a DMA is, or should be. I feel that those individuals, and others like Pan Qing Fu, and Eric Lee (the Chinese one, not the Korean), Bong Soo Han, Brendan Lai, should be considered DMAs because they've devoted their lives to martial arts study: not just monastic life. In the 21st century, they are to me what a DMA is, or should be.

That's why there are skill programs. However, there's a big difference between the way the DMA is and WMA is. One of the minor reasons I don't really use either in my games anymore.

I like to have a flexible OCC archtype, suitable to both contemporary and historical ('period' or fantasy) settings.

[Guest]

Kuseru Satsujin wrote:

Why, when you can see it for free on my website?

For the same reasons I buy CDs instead of downloading them for free: to support the artist.

What if the artist in question doesn't make CDs and only provided free downloadable songs?

They aren't DMAs. They didn't spend their whole lives in a monastery and suddenly decide to one day come out and join the rest of the world.

Here we disagree on what a DMA is, or should be. I feel that those individuals, and others like Pan Qing Fu, and Eric Lee (the Chinese one, not the Korean), Bong Soo Han, Brendan Lai, should be considered DMAs because they've devoted their lives to martial arts study: not just monastic life. In the 21st century, they are to me what a DMA is, or should be.

So basically delete everything it says int eh description after the first sentence.

That's why there are skill programs. However, there's a big difference between the way the DMA is and WMA is. One of the minor reasons I don't really use either in my games anymore.

I like to have a flexible OCC archtype, suitable to both contemporary and historical ('period' or fantasy) settings.

So warrior, rogue, peasant, magic geezer, technoweeny, psychic, and clergy.

[Sentinel]

Kuseru Satsujin wrote:

So warrior, rogue, peasant, magic geezer, technoweeny, psychic, and clergy.

Where do I find the Magic Geezer and Technoweeny OCCs?
Actually, when I think about the HUII Education bonus system, I could actually have a common foot soldier, or an educated Noble Knight all from the warrior catagory. Saddle Tramps, Vagabonds and Saloon Bums all as (uneducated) Peasents, etc.
I think that for Mages and Psychics, there's more than education and skills that differentiate them: the difference between a Burster and a Nega-Psychic is more than a Masters' Degree will provide: likewise a Mystic with a PHD will still not be able to learn spells as does a Ley Line Walker.
You've started a train of thought for me now.
Gee, thanks. Like I didn't have anything better to do.

[Sentinel]

Kuseru Satsujin wrote:

What if the artist in question doesn't make CDs and only provided free downloadable songs?

That would be a pickle: if it doesn't make it to some kind of forum other than downloaded from my PC, then I probably wouldn't have heard of it to begin with.
I suppose, if I did, and that were the only option, then I would do so with the artists' blessing.
I still think you should submit this stuff and get a big fat check from Palladium: but, that's the mercenary in me.
I met Robert Lynn Asprin several years ago, and he gave me a piece of advice that he got from Ben Bova: "Never Work For Free".
You've done good work: you should enjoy a reward.

[Guest]

Kuseru Satsujin wrote:

So warrior, rogue, peasant, magic geezer, technoweeny, psychic, and clergy.

Where do I find the Magic Geezer and Technoweeny OCCs?

It varies.

Actually, when I think about the HUII Education bonus system, I could actually have a common foot soldier, or an educated Noble Knight all from the warrior catagory. Saddle Tramps, Vagabonds and Saloon Bums all as (uneducated) Peasents, etc.

I didn't care that much for the HUII education table. It's pretty limited in what it does.

I think that for Mages and Psychics, there's more than education and skills that differentiate them: the difference between a Burster and a Nega-Psychic is more than a Masters' Degree will provide: likewise a Mystic with a PHD will still not be able to learn spells as does a Ley Line Walker.

Yeah, pretty much. But the same is true for other classes as well.

You've started a train of thought for me now.

At least it's not the GM Rail Road.

Gee, thanks. Like I didn't have anything better to do.

What, you mean like totally redesign Palladium's books so they all work on the same system?

[Sentinel]

Kuseru Satsujin wrote:

Yeah, pretty much. But the same is true for other classes as well.

Not as much though. For a HUII Super Soldier (for example) a higher education bonus translates into more skills, and higher skill bonuses.
For Psychics, it doesn't bring more psi-powers, and for mages, it makes no difference to how mant spells you get, nor to the spell strength.

I didn't care that much for the HUII education table. It's pretty limited in what it does.

I didn't find it all that limiting. Where do you find it coming up short? Besides for there being skills in other games (like Skiing in Rifts Canada, or Cowboy Skills in New West), where does it fall for you?

[Guest]

I didn't find it all that limiting. Where do you find it coming up short? Besides for there being skills in other games (like Skiing in Rifts Canada, or Cowboy Skills in New West), where does it fall for you?

Let's see, where to start.

Not enough difference in the various levels of education. Not enough total number of skills available. When you can go through the books and say, "yeah, I've got this skill, that skill, that skill over there, and end up with over 50 skills" then too many of the classes in HU (and other Palladium games) are getting crapped on when it comes to education. Non-college education gets crapped on a lot. Basically, the table is fairly unrealistic when it comes to a contemporary setting. It's also passing up too many interesting options that other games supply, like TMNT's wild education, or expanded education in areas that should have different levels of education, much like it's sole focus of college education.

[Sentinel]

I didn't find it all that limiting. Where do you find it coming up short? Besides for there being skills in other games (like Skiing in Rifts Canada, or Cowboy Skills in New West), where does it fall for you?

Let's see, where to start.

Not enough difference in the various levels of education. Not enough total number of skills available. When you can go through the books and say, "yeah, I've got this skill, that skill, that skill over there, and end up with over 50 skills" then too many of the classes in HU (and other Palladium games) are getting crapped on when it comes to education. Non-college education gets crapped on a lot. Basically, the table is fairly unrealistic when it comes to a contemporary setting. It's also passing up too many interesting options that other games supply, like TMNT's wild education, or expanded education in areas that should have different levels of education, much like it's sole focus of college education.

So, perhaps combining AtB (TMNT) with HUII would help?
And, consolidate the skills from all the disparate games (so my superhero can ski, damnit)?
Yes, college is the leader of the field in terms of education, but when I get players who want a skill oriented character, they usually go with one of the non-powered types (like Hunter Vigilante) who don't use the Education Bonus anyway.
I tend to use N&SS for the military and espionage skill programs, but HUII for the total number of programs selected.

[Sentinel]

So, perhaps combining AtB (TMNT) with HUII would help?

Combining ATB2 and HU2?? No, not really.

After the Bomb employs a different educational system than Palladium's other roleplaying games, in that formal 'education' has been all but obliterated in the setting. They use apprenticeships instead, which are really unlike anything else in the Megaverse.

Not to mention, the skills and their accompanying descriptions are pretty different in After the Bomb and Heroes Unlimited. Again, this is because of the vastly different settings (near-future versus post-apocalyptic).

The point was though, this might add a valuable dimension to how skills ae selected. These characters have better skill choices than the DMAs of N&SS with their apocalyptic educations.
I would add a level of character development to expand street schooled characters, and not focus so narrowly on college as an education background.

And, consolidate the skills from all the disparate games (so my superhero can ski, damnit)?

This would easily be an obviously practical suggestion. However, it needs to be remembered that some of the skills don't quite "synch" up due to differing settings, differing levels of education, and differing levels of technology.

Of course, the GM would also determine if a skill were inappropriate for his/her campaign. There isn't much though in the modern settings that isn't appropriate as skills go: certainly a consolidated list won't hurt anything.

Laterz.

Chiao.

[Guest]

I have an odd urge to create martial artist skill programs now...

[Sentinel]

I have an odd urge to create martial artist skill programs now...

Don't let me stop you.

Or, in the words of Alan Rickman from Die Hard I:
"Then don't waste time talking to me."

[Guest]

I have an odd urge to create martial artist skill programs now...

Don't let me stop you.

Or, in the words of Alan Rickman from Die Hard I:
"Then don't waste time talking to me."

Actually, I did already create several (200 or so) for my N&S: Japan setting (I also helped out Hibik in giving him some basic Chinese-type skill programs for his games, but that's another story), but many of them aren't really suitable for a more contemporary setting, where the martial artist may not focus on the same things that a 16th century samurai, sumotori, or ninja would focus on. I'll have to play around with a way to combine the best aspects of a historical martial arts focus with a contemporary system.

Which means I really need to get back to updating the compiled Palladium skills list (too many overlapping skills need to be modified and moved around).

[Mantisking]

I'd like to see the Espionage and Military programs updated to reflect newer skills found in some of the other books. I'd also like to see more Scientific programs, and some programs dedicated to the "covers" found in NSS. For example, what skills would be good for a wine buyer?

How about this skill found here?