6th sense and other psycic stuff question

[Temporalmage]

This actually happened in a game, and I'm curious on how others would have handled it:

A crazy in body armor, was attacked by a vampire. The crazy's 6th sense goes off. During the fight the vampire calls an attempt to knockout, and rolls a natural twenty. The knockout is succesfull and the vampire drags the PC Crazy a block away and takes off the crazies helmet.

Now this is where it gets muddled.

The crazy was allowed to wake up as the vamp was going to suck him dry. But the GM arbotrated that the 6th sense had already gone off for this specific danger so the bonus's wouldnt' apply. In the end the crazy got sucked dry, and died. Now it only took the vamp a few moments to drag the crazy a block, and a sec to rip off the helmet. So not much time would really pass, and the danger was present the entire time.

The question is what would you have done? Allowed the 6th sense to go off again? Or not? Please give your reasons either way.

[Jesterzzn]

I would never let a player die on a technicality. Always give the player the benefit of the doubt. So yes. 6th sense should still be in effect.

[Dr. Doom III]

Because the source of the danger was the same, I'd say it wouldn't go off again.

*Doom Seal Of Approval*

[Jmur]

I think it would go off. He was knocked out so when he awakens his sixth sense would come back. I would think that when he is unconcious the sixth sense from before would be like something not even happening. Almost like a new day IMO. I don't think that he should die like that but should've been given some kind of struggle he is a crazy after all.

[Nekira Sudacne]

this is the game of roll to dice.

alas, poor player died fair and square. sucks to be sure, I always offer some out in cases like that. but if it's not in the dice...

[Zer0 Kay]

I hope the sixth sense went off because the vampire attacked while the PC was unware the vamp was there, not because the vampire was already fighting and was going to call a knock out. The power shouldn't go off again. However I don't recall anywhere saying that once you get bit that you are paralyzed. I know if I was just unconcious and there was nothing keeping me that way I'd wake up from a sharp pain in the neck.

Even if more time had passed than 60 seconds it wouldn't go off again because last thing you recall you were getting attacked by a vampire and it's still the same KNOWN and EXPECTED threat. If you don't know that a vampire is going to try to suck the blood from your body... your pretty stupid.

[Vinny]

The character is dead. It's not a technicality. It's the way Sixth Sense works. It would not go off again. It's too bad he died, but oh well. It happens.

[Zer0 Kay]

The character is dead. It's not a technicality. It's the way Sixth Sense works. It would not go off again. It's too bad he died, but oh well. It happens.

Granted sixth sense wouldn't work, but I'd wake up from someone biteing my neck and to be bled dry doesn't happen instantaniously.

[Vinny]

Granted sixth sense wouldn't work, but I'd wake up from someone biteing my neck and to be bled dry doesn't happen instantaniously.

I'll concure with that.

[Killer Cyborg]

Would the 6th Sense bonuses really have mattered?

[Temporalmage]

Would the 6th Sense bonuses really have mattered?

At the end the vamp's strike roll was only 2 higher than the parry roll from the crazy...so ya, unfortunatly. I don't think it would have mattered in the long run though, as the vamp actually had the advantage and was right on top of the crazy who was flat on her back.

I tried to give the PC the benifit of the doubt here. It took the vamp like 3 actions to drag the crazy a block and rip off the helmet. Only three actions. And I allowed the crazy to regain conceiousness in that short of time to give her a fighting chance, instead of just saying "Well your dead, roll up a new character." But I didn't, and still don't, think that 6th sense would have gone off again. My wife on the other hand, (also a gamer, ya me!) argued that I should have let the crazy's 6th sense activate a second time. I posted this topic on the boards at her request to get feedback from all ya'all. Thanks for the input everyone!!

(And no, it wasn't my wifes character that got sucked dry...but you'd have thought it was with all the bickering!! WOMEN!!! Can't live with em, can't shoot em!!)

[Killer Cyborg]

Would the 6th Sense bonuses really have mattered?

At the end the vamp's strike roll was only 2 higher than the parry roll from the crazy...so ya, unfortunatly. I don't think it would have mattered in the long run though, as the vamp actually had the advantage and was right on top of the crazy who was flat on her back.

I tried to give the PC the benifit of the doubt here. It took the vamp like 3 actions to drag the crazy a block and rip off the helmet. Only three actions. And I allowed the crazy to regain conceiousness in that short of time to give her a fighting chance, instead of just saying "Well your dead, roll up a new character." But I didn't, and still don't, think that 6th sense would have gone off again. My wife on the other hand, (also a gamer, ya me!) argued that I should have let the crazy's 6th sense activate a second time. I posted this topic on the boards at her request to get feedback from all ya'all. Thanks for the input everyone!!

Well, I have to side with you on this one.
6th Sense give warning up to 1 minute in advance. Unless the combat lasted over a minute, or you gave them exactly 60 seconds heads-up before rolling init in the first place, then the death in question was likely the event that 6th Sense was warning about in the firs place.
For that matter, 6th Sense should never go off unless a new initiative is rolled.

All I can say to help your wife is this...
How the heck did that vampire rip the helmet off in 3 attacks?

[Temporalmage]

Well, I have to side with you on this one.

Danke.

All I can say to help your wife is this...
How the heck did that vampire rip the helmet off in 3 attacks?

I'll respond by asking you a question. How long would it take to take a helmet off?
My thinking is that body armor is made for military use. And as such the military is famous for quick deployment equipment. I can't imagine it taking more than one action to either take off or put on a helmet. Plus with body armor there wouldn't be any "locks" that would require a password or key phrase, as that would hamper a medic trying to perform CPR or other life saving procedures. Power armor on the other hand would take more time, but body armor... on an unconcsience person??

[Killer Cyborg]

All I can say to help your wife is this...
How the heck did that vampire rip the helmet off in 3 attacks?

I'll respond by asking you a question. How long would it take to take a helmet off?
My thinking is that body armor is made for military use. And as such the military is famous for quick deployment equipment. I can't imagine it taking more than one action to either take off or put on a helmet. Plus with body armor there wouldn't be any "locks" that would require a password or key phrase, as that would hamper a medic trying to perform CPR or other life saving procedures. Power armor on the other hand would take more time, but body armor... on an unconcsience person??

The books don't say anything about helmet removal, of course.
My thoughts are this:
1. If the helmet is EBA, then it has to be very well sealed.
2. Medics reaching the person inside the armor would rarely be a factor on Rifts Earth. Generally you're fine until your armor is breached, then you're paste.
3. It's just too darn easy to kill people if their helmets come off easily.

If you want to be realistic, try to find out how long it takes an astronaut to take off his helmet.

Personally, I have the helmets lock into place.
If somebody tries to rip a helmet off, I have them make a tear/pry attack (1/2 punch damage) and the helmet comes off when the MDC of the locking mechanism is depleted.
I don't remember how I determine the MDC for the locks... probably something like 1/4 the MDC of the helmet.

[Temporalmage]

The books don't say anything about helmet removal, of course.
My thoughts are this:
1. If the helmet is EBA, then it has to be very well sealed.
2. Medics reaching the person inside the armor would rarely be a factor on Rifts Earth. Generally you're fine until your armor is breached, then you're paste.
3. It's just too darn easy to kill people if their helmets come off easily.

If you want to be realistic, try to find out how long it takes an astronaut to take off his helmet.

Personally, I have the helmets lock into place.
If somebody tries to rip a helmet off, I have them make a tear/pry attack (1/2 punch damage) and the helmet comes off when the MDC of the locking mechanism is depleted.
I don't remember how I determine the MDC for the locks... probably something like 1/4 the MDC of the helmet.

I too have them "lock" into place if they are invironmental. But the lock doesn't require a key, code, etc to open. It's kinda like putting the helmet on to the side, and then turning it to the front to lock it. Taking it off is just as simple. (that's not an accurate discription of how they would work according to the pictures, but you get the idea) And an enemy could only do it if the person was either willing, or immobile. Ala: tied up, unconscience, dead, paralized, etc. You get the picture.

[Killer Cyborg]

The books don't say anything about helmet removal, of course.
My thoughts are this:
1. If the helmet is EBA, then it has to be very well sealed.
2. Medics reaching the person inside the armor would rarely be a factor on Rifts Earth. Generally you're fine until your armor is breached, then you're paste.
3. It's just too darn easy to kill people if their helmets come off easily.

If you want to be realistic, try to find out how long it takes an astronaut to take off his helmet.

Personally, I have the helmets lock into place.
If somebody tries to rip a helmet off, I have them make a tear/pry attack (1/2 punch damage) and the helmet comes off when the MDC of the locking mechanism is depleted.
I don't remember how I determine the MDC for the locks... probably something like 1/4 the MDC of the helmet.

I too have them "lock" into place if they are invironmental. But the lock doesn't require a key, code, etc to open. It's kinda like putting the helmet on to the side, and then turning it to the front to lock it. Taking it off is just as simple. (that's not an accurate discription of how they would work according to the pictures, but you get the idea) And an enemy could only do it if the person was either willing, or immobile. Ala: tied up, unconscience, dead, paralized, etc. You get the picture.

I'd still have it take at least 1d4 melees for them to open it.
And if it were a Wild Vampire (or other low-IQ creature) or anybody unfamiliar with EBA, then I'd have it take longer.

But that's just the way I do things... Since the rules don't address it, your home rules are just as valid as mine...

[Temporalmage]

The books don't say anything about helmet removal, of course.
My thoughts are this:
1. If the helmet is EBA, then it has to be very well sealed.
2. Medics reaching the person inside the armor would rarely be a factor on Rifts Earth. Generally you're fine until your armor is breached, then you're paste.
3. It's just too darn easy to kill people if their helmets come off easily.

If you want to be realistic, try to find out how long it takes an astronaut to take off his helmet.

Personally, I have the helmets lock into place.
If somebody tries to rip a helmet off, I have them make a tear/pry attack (1/2 punch damage) and the helmet comes off when the MDC of the locking mechanism is depleted.
I don't remember how I determine the MDC for the locks... probably something like 1/4 the MDC of the helmet.

I too have them "lock" into place if they are invironmental. But the lock doesn't require a key, code, etc to open. It's kinda like putting the helmet on to the side, and then turning it to the front to lock it. Taking it off is just as simple. (that's not an accurate discription of how they would work according to the pictures, but you get the idea) And an enemy could only do it if the person was either willing, or immobile. Ala: tied up, unconscience, dead, paralized, etc. You get the picture.

I'd still have it take at least 1d4 melees for them to open it.
And if it were a Wild Vampire (or other low-IQ creature) or anybody unfamiliar with EBA, then I'd have it take longer.

But that's just the way I do things... Since the rules don't address it, your home rules are just as valid as mine...

That's cool. I opened this topic for feedback and others opinions, so feel free dude!

I just wanted to know peaples opinions really. It don't matter in the long run. The party spent most of it's money to have the crazy resurected. Just wanted to satisfy the wifey.

(If your married you know what I mean. )

[Vinny]

The party spent most of it's money to have the crazy resurected.

Can't remember if it's Rifts Index and Adventures 1 or 2 but their a hook line and sinker that has the group birng their dead companion to a cleric to raise him and the cleric is really a doppelganger who takes over the body.

[Dead Boy]

6th Sense give warning up to 1 minute in advance. Unless the combat lasted over a minute, or you gave them exactly 60 seconds heads-up before rolling init in the first place, then the death in question was likely the event that 6th Sense was warning about in the firs place.

I can't argue against this. If the chain of events did indeed all fall inside of that 60 second window, there was no foul here.

Psh, ressurection gets stupid if it's too easy, death is dramatic, ressurection ruins it.

I like to have reserection in the game and available to the players so they don't lose characters all that offten. But I also don't like to have it readily available at the same time like it was in D&D. As such, each time a characters is asked to be brought back the fee for the service is an adventure onto itself. Sometimes two to three adventures just to find a mage with the rare spell in the first place.

[Temporalmage]

Psh, ressurection gets stupid if it's too easy, death is dramatic, ressurection ruins it.

I like to have reserection in the game and available to the players so they don't lose characters all that offten. But I also don't like to have it readily available at the same time like it was in D&D. As such, each time a characters is asked to be brought back the fee for the service is an adventure onto itself. Sometimes two to three adventures just to find a mage with the rare spell in the first place.

I leave it up to the PC's. If they can scrape togeather enough cash, or have a HUGE favor they can cash in, then it's OK as long as there is a body left to revive. It's funny what PC's the party decides to resurect, and which ones they don't. Which has happened also.

[Rimmer]

I've always ruled that 6th sense was related to surprise, no surprise no 6th sense. So sucky, but yes he is vamp chow.

[Killer Cyborg]

Yeah I agree that he is Vamp chow sense it was within the one min. I have another question though, how do you kill a Psi Ghost that has 6th sense? Every time he senses danger he just goes intangible! How do you kill him?

Take him out with nonlethal weapons.
It won't set off his 6th sense.
Then disable him and kill him at your leisure.

Or get a psychic of your own close to him and set up a Group Mind Block to keep the psi-ghost from using his psychic powers. Then move in (61 seconds later) and attack.

[Subjugator]

Because the source of the danger was the same, I'd say it wouldn't go off again.

While I agree with the above 100%, I also agree with this:

would never let a player die on a technicality. Always give the player the benefit of the doubt. So yes. 6th sense should still be in effect.

What I probably would have done is give the character a way out. For example, when awakening as the vamp comes in for the kill, the character's arms are flailing about and said character just happens to grab a piece of paper with a cross on it that gets slapped on the vamp's skin, thereby causing said vamp to jump up in startlement, pain, and fear.

Now...if the PC jumped up and tried to fight at that point, there'd be a dead character, but if the cross was used to fend off the vamp until help arrived, or was used for an escape, said PC would live.

I generally only kill PCs out of their own stupidity. Once in a while I kill one, just to give 'em the fear of it, but unless they're dumb they usually have a way out.