How many people incorporate the Tolkeen War in campaigns?

[Larsen]

I play it as an optional thing. Also the four horseman thing never happened.

[Scooter the Outlaw]

I used the war on Tolkeen as background noise, but very important and influential background noise. The war affects all their other destinations (Lazlo, etc.) with refugees, recruiters, propaganda, etc. The players are too scared to do anything really risky, though, so they stay away from Tolkeen as a whole.

[Vrykolas2k]

I ran the SoT, but due to my PCs' actions, the CS got stale-mated.

[DhAkael]

I hate the Uber-Meta-plot that Kevin Siembiada forced on the Rifts story line (and I'll not get into an argument / flame war over why the CS should have gotten owned..or at least heavily beaten before winning), and never had any interest in already scripted adventures that were gonna be moot points.
However, I do have the SoT running in the background, and yes --sigh-- to at least keep moderately in line, the CS will win, but not for the cheese-wad reasons written by KS...
Besides, having the CS win by a nose-hair just means their fall is going to be all the sweeter to my players (and me as GM) in the long run.

[Dustin Fireblade]

Don't use the plot. Sold all the books.

[Vrykolas2k]

I ran the SoT, but due to my PCs' actions, the CS got stale-mated.

After we found (stole) the founder stones we not only stale mated them but drove them right back accross the river. I've ran entire campainges in and around the seige its a great oportunity to bring in exotic OCC's as well as put some hurtin' on the CS. I've also got one on the go with a group that I'm going to let the CS win and then play out from the spring of 109. I hope it goes well. "On to the great unknown"- Winstin Churchhill

In my campaign, stale-mate was the same as defeat for the CS.
They had to go home and cry to momma.

[Hystrix]

I dealt very little with the actuall war. Of course, unlike most here, I have no problem with the real outcome (i.e. Tolkeen getting crushed)...

[Sentinel]

I used it as a background story element, but not as a central plotline.
I only bought two of the books in any event: the first for the Juggernauts, and the fourth for the Cyber Knights.

[Dustin Fireblade]

I don't see how you can't use Tolkeen in an adventure. It is one of the biggest events going on. I understand that you may not want it to be a main part of a campaing but to ingore it completly is bad.

Ignore it completely is bad? Care to explain that further?

[Sentinel]

I like using Tolkeen: I'll make my own campaign story for it.
I like Atlantis. I do not need the Game Designers' help to make stories.
I like the Coalition. I'll decide how they impact my campaign world.
Meta Plot is just a means of making GMs secondary to the story the Game Designer wants to tell.
Let him write a novel.

[Dustin Fireblade]

Well I can respect your opinion, but it's every players and GM's prerogative to use or ignore whatever they want. Using or not using something I don't think adds or subtracts from the game.

See I don't *want* to be forced into using somebody else's idea's. In this case Kevin Siembieda's, and I think everyone mostly agree's, the execution was horrible. (So I disagree with you there that the SoT made the game better, I know for a fact several people quit playing Rifts as a direct result of that. On the other hand yes some people may have gotten into the game for the first time because of it.)

Just give me the source material and step back, I can design meta-plots and adventure all day long for my players.

[Dustin Fireblade]

I like using Tolkeen: I'll make my own campaign story for it.
I like Atlantis. I do not need the Game Designers' help to make stories.
I like the Coalition. I'll decide how they impact my campaign world.
Meta Plot is just a means of making GMs secondary to the story the Game Designer wants to tell.
Let him write a novel.

Amen to the novel's! It's the best way to advance a RPG world (of any kind I think) and promote it at the same time.

[Sureshot]

I would not say that Sot was not poorly executed just badly implemented. As for meta-plot I think a game as large as rifts needs some of it. The world and setting are too big to not have any absolutes. As much as I like designing my own stories I don't have as much time, energy or will to do it as i did in younger gaming days.

As long as meta-plot is not overused. Right now I feel there is just too much vagueness in the setting.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

I like using Tolkeen: I'll make my own campaign story for it.
I like Atlantis. I do not need the Game Designers' help to make stories.
I like the Coalition. I'll decide how they impact my campaign world.
Meta Plot is just a means of making GMs secondary to the story the Game Designer wants to tell.
Let him write a novel.

WuRd to the peeps

[Sentinel]

The worst part of Metaplotting, which I don't want to overlook, is that invariably you end up paying for a lot of pages of information you aren't going to use.
If Palladium were to publish a Tolkeen Sourcebook, and have it be nothing but information (no stories), then GMs could decide either to buy it and use it, or not. If it's going to have some stuff you can use (for me, it was the Juggernauts), but also be filled with story I could not/did not want, then it's horns of dilemma.
Mercenaries, Sourcebook 1, Vampire Kingdoms are all excellent examples of what a sourcebook should be.

[Sentinel]

I bought the books. I'm playing a siege game.

For good or ill leaving the war out of your game at the least makes a number of more recent books useless.

I also really wonder about people who seem to only run games on the level that their PCs can affect world-wide situations. Makes it seem like they only play high level and high power games. I wonder at the arrogance it takes to say five people not heads of the nations involved can totally alter or control the face/outcome of a war. It's like saying, okay I'm going to send five mercs to my enemy's country and expect them to totally bring it to its knees.

We actually play a wide variety of power level games.
Sometimes, the group is a handful of adventurers trying to make it from one day to another.
Others, they are hi-end powerhouses, who can make a huge difference.
Can Three Cosmo-Knights overthrow Lord Splynn? Likely not. But, they could cause enough disruption to Atlantis over a sustained period of time to cause a massive revolution, especially if joined by other powerful characters.

The outcome of the SoT should have been decided by each individual GM, not the game designer.

[Jmur]

I don't see how you can't use Tolkeen in an adventure. It is one of the biggest events going on. I understand that you may not want it to be a main part of a campaing but to ingore it completly is bad.

Well the books you don't have to have. I mean we didn't have them before they were released and got along just fine.

[Suicycho]

I used it. It was a blast. Even if you don't use it, Book 6 is a MUST HAVE simply for mapping anbd detailing Tolkeen...In the same book it gets destroyed.

[Hystrix]

The outcome of the SoT should have been decided by each individual GM, not the game designer.

I couldn't agree more, and we cannot limit it to just the SoT, but to other conflicts as well.

PB's approach to this piticular RPG (havent' played any other PB RPB) is some what too controling. I think they should just provide the world, any political conflicts, potential threts to certin govts. and allow for the individual GM to evolve the world around the events of their own story, not make them mold the events to fit their story.

I don't know. I think the Rifts world being shaped like it is makes it a more exciting setting. I'm not saying SoT was written all the well, but the outcome shoudn't be determined by GMs. Well, it can be. But one of the problems I had with SoT, especially SoT6, was that the Tolkeen NPCs fates where left up to the GMs. But that one I can see past. However, future worldbooks and events are shaped by the happening of SoT. Unless you want a bunch of "alternate" World Books for those who had Tolkeen win the war...

[Sentinel]

The outcome of the SoT should have been decided by each individual GM, not the game designer.

I couldn't agree more, and we cannot limit it to just the SoT, but to other conflicts as well.

PB's approach to this piticular RPG (havent' played any other PB RPB) is some what too controling. I think they should just provide the world, any political conflicts, potential threts to certin govts. and allow for the individual GM to evolve the world around the events of their own story, not make them mold the events to fit their story.

I don't know. I think the Rifts world being shaped like it is makes it a more exciting setting. I'm not saying SoT was written all the well, but the outcome shoudn't be determined by GMs. Well, it can be. But one of the problems I had with SoT, especially SoT6, was that the Tolkeen NPCs fates where left up to the GMs. But that one I can see past. However, future worldbooks and events are shaped by the happening of SoT. Unless you want a bunch of "alternate" World Books for those who had Tolkeen win the war...

All I want from my world books is geography, relevant OCCs, animals and monsters, etc.
All I want from a source book are the three Gs': Guns, Gadgets, and Gear.
Story, I can come up with on my own. So, there's never a need for an "alternate ending" worldbook story, because there wouldn't have been a story in the world book to begin with.

[Hystrix]

The outcome of the SoT should have been decided by each individual GM, not the game designer.

I couldn't agree more, and we cannot limit it to just the SoT, but to other conflicts as well.

PB's approach to this piticular RPG (havent' played any other PB RPB) is some what too controling. I think they should just provide the world, any political conflicts, potential threts to certin govts. and allow for the individual GM to evolve the world around the events of their own story, not make them mold the events to fit their story.

I don't know. I think the Rifts world being shaped like it is makes it a more exciting setting. I'm not saying SoT was written all the well, but the outcome shoudn't be determined by GMs. Well, it can be. But one of the problems I had with SoT, especially SoT6, was that the Tolkeen NPCs fates where left up to the GMs. But that one I can see past. However, future worldbooks and events are shaped by the happening of SoT. Unless you want a bunch of "alternate" World Books for those who had Tolkeen win the war...

All I want from my world books is geography, relevant OCCs, animals and monsters, etc.
All I want from a source book are the three Gs': Guns, Gadgets, and Gear.
Story, I can come up with on my own. So, there's never a need for an "alternate ending" worldbook story, because there wouldn't have been a story in the world book to begin with.

Geez, go play GURPS then. Part of what makes Rifts appealing is the storyline...

[Sentinel]

GURPS does have a system of information presentation which Palladium could learn from.

The setting world of Rifts (and others) is very interesting and imaginative: I was very enthusiastic about the game when I bought the main book.
My feeling is, that I can take it from here. If Kevin Siembieda, or anyone else has a story to tell, then put it in a different format (novels, comics, animated shorts on DVD).
I'm the GM. I'll tell the story.

[Scooter the Outlaw]

The setting world of Rifts (and others) is very interesting and imaginative: I was very enthusiastic about the game when I bought the main book.
My feeling is, that I can take it from here. If Kevin Siembieda, or anyone else has a story to tell, then put it in a different format (novels, comics, animated shorts on DVD).
I'm the GM. I'll tell the story.

That's great and all, but not all GMs are as creative as you, have time to think out everything themselves, etc. Personally, I don't mind having a bit of meta-plot to add to the dynamics of the game. Meta-plot events are fine with me, they add nice background noise and add realism and a sense of being in a real world to my campaign without me having to think the whole thing up. Not saying I thought SoT was great or anything, but I don't mind seeing that the world of Rifts is alive and active beyond what the worldbooks represent in their limited scope; the usual vauge 'these people are doing something...' kind of thing. Surely, some of those events wrap themselves up without PC influence, so I don't mind seeing those threads get closed up.

[Sentinel]

I agree with scooter and jut, if it was all source then what in the heck would be going on. If there were no books to tell a little bit of a story you would have tons of npc's and places with no purpose. For example lord dunscon in FOM he wouldn't have a point in the game unless there was the bit about him kidnapping that Prosek. I think some plots are necessary for the world to flow.

Just based on some of the posts I've read on this board, if the relevant NPCs have well written backgrounds, most people are in fact creative enough (give yourselves credit: many of you inspire me with your ideas) to extrapolate and come up with stories that work for their campaigns.
Everything from political intrigue, to large scale battles, and character interactions in between.
Some of the ideas that stand out in my mind most are those involving ARCHIE 3, and variations to the ending of the SoT, as well as the events leading up to the war to begin with.
And, as Jut pointed out, a small group of characters can have a major impact on the campaign world on a large scale, if they are motivated to.

[Vrykolas2k]

Thing is...
I LIKE the way the Mechanoids, Four Horsemen, the war between Free Quebec and the Coalition, and the war against the Xiticix by Lazlo were handled.
"Here's what you get. Here's what they have. Play ball."
The SoT was just rammed down your throat, no way out if you stick to canon. KS developed a city and NPCs, and then vaped them. I don't like that in the least. And some of it was so implausable I got a headache. A large CS force in Xiticix territory, minimal losses and... what did they eat for those weeks, or drink? Eachother? And what about the Xiticix territorial instincts? The Dragon Kings leaving their home to an invasion of human roaches? Yeah, right; any ONE of them could kill hundreds...
Yeah, I use it, but I for once don't follow canon. And I usually LIKE to follow canon, be by the book, everyone on the same sheet of music...

[dark brandon]

The outcome of the SoT should have been decided by each individual GM, not the game designer.

I couldn't agree more, and we cannot limit it to just the SoT, but to other conflicts as well.

PB's approach to this piticular RPG (havent' played any other PB RPB) is some what too controling. I think they should just provide the world, any political conflicts, potential threts to certin govts. and allow for the individual GM to evolve the world around the events of their own story, not make them mold the events to fit their story.

I've played it once, I was GMing and my players were all CS soldiers. As someone stated, it's amaizing how much damage a few guys can cause and they of course were an important piece on how Tolkeen fell. They did things like disrupt most attempts to sabatoge supply lines, called in heavy artillery when they found attempts by tolkeen to summon demons.

I personally dislike the Cyber-knights new form. I'd choose the older form over the newer form, though, I like their ability to summon 2 psi-swords.

Though, I would have prefered just 1 or 2 books on the seige on tolkeen. Just give me the ending, I can write the story on how it will happen. I'd have prefered "In the end, tolkeen will fall, but how and why is up to the GMs"...and then a few blurbs on CS change such as "Holmes being a hero" and "CS and quebec are on good terms again, though Quebec is a free nation now".

The big information I would have liked, the little details I could handle, this way future games and game books I would still be able to use instead of having to go through future books and say "Ok, well, in my world tolkeen won so I have to change this and this...and this...oh, and this.."

[Hystrix]

See I agree with darkbrandon. Also, I like to use elements of the Siege. I don't think about Tolkeen having a couple hundred Adult Dragonsin one city (see, to me, that is more unrealistic than the Dragons just leaving). I also don't sweat that Holmes and his army survived the Xiticix. THat has been explained time and time again. Wayne Smith even got online and explained it...very well I might add. To me, those who complain about the Holmes/Xiticix thing are just unhappy with the outcome...

The discrption of Tolkeen was decent. Yeah, thjey destroyed it, but at least they described it at all... I wish they had done more. Mapped out some more towns and such. SoT6 is great BTW if you wanna play Tolkeen before the war...

Yeah, SoT wasn't that bad. Could have been better, but wasn't bad...

[Vrykolas2k]

See I agree with darkbrandon. Also, I like to use elements of the Siege. I don't think about Tolkeen having a couple hundred Adult Dragonsin one city (see, to me, that is more unrealistic than the Dragons just leaving). I also don't sweat that Holmes and his army survived the Xiticix. THat has been explained time and time again. Wayne Smith even got online and explained it...very well I might add. To me, those who complain about the Holmes/Xiticix thing are just unhappy with the outcome...

I must have missed this one... care to enlighten me?

Me, too.
Please. Is it located on the boards anywhere?

[Hystrix]

It was on here prolly 2 or 3 years ago. Maybe he should come back and do it again...

[Vrykolas2k]

It was on here prolly 2 or 3 years ago. Maybe he should come back and do it again...

Maybe they should sticky it, and much woe could be averted...

[Hystrix]

It was on here prolly 2 or 3 years ago. Maybe he should come back and do it again...

Maybe they should sticky it, and much woe could be averted...

That's not a bad idea. It really was a great post. Of course like I said it was at least 2 years ago, so I doubt it's still on the boards anywhere...

[Jefffar]

Unless the PCs step in, I tend to play it as if the War is still in the earliest stages (ie before the SOT books came out). I let the war accelerate to fruition only once they take an active role.

[dark brandon]

I still wince when I have to read that rag about Thorpe taking down a squad of grunts and a Glitterboy Killer. Tell me which was worse, Thorpe baiting the troops to fight when they didn't want to or one shotting the GBK through its chest with a psi sword? Ugh.

Wasn't that the worst...

I could deal with how tolkeen lost, I could deal with the xinixtics...but the thorpe story...man...that was bad.

[Wildfire]

I ran a 6 month wekly CS Game were only one of the original PCs survived and he is a full conversion borg and no longer the SF superstar.
Everyone liked it, and the CS is not all that bad

[Sentinel]

or one shotting the GBK through its chest with a psi sword? Ugh

Must have been a Natural 20 Leap Attack Power Punch near a Ley Line Nexus.
No, wait, I know: it was a Home Spun GBK armour, so it didn't have it's full MDC value.
Or, perhaps Thorpe is a demon in disguise w/ Supernatural PS.

[Dead Boy]

I know I'm in the minority here, but I think the CS/Tolkeen War series has a lot of campaigne potential. The books have such a wealth of NPCs and settings to work with it would be a shame to completely ignore them and pretend they never happened. However, I also think that you don't have to adhear to every little detail in them and as GM, you are free to change things as you please.

Personally I'm, in the process of putting together a campaign (slooooooooooooowly) in this setting that will make use of the entire series., But, be being the pro-CS kind of guy that I am, I refuse to include some of the complete bone-head things that happened in the books, and it is my intention to make General Drogue into something less incompetant and moronic than his actual write-up makes him out to be, (I'm thinking of making him more of a Patton figure that gradualy loses it as the war progresses).

[SolCannibal]

I agree that people don't and I think shouldn't use the books exactly the way they were written. It wouldn't be as inventive or fun of a game for that matter. It could be I'm just biased because I did like the books (I don't think tolkeen would have lost) but i liked them, call me crazy if you want. I just don't like the idea of cutting something completly out, thats just me.

I would like to see more novels too.

I have played games where Tolkeen War is non-existent - tech x magic becomes utterly irrelevant when Xiticix invade from the North and from East a Metztla/Mechanoid alliance takes over the Shemarrian nation and comes razing everything in their path. Suddenly the heart of civilization, no matter what your definition of civilization is, stands between a rock and a hard place with nowhere to run.

Others where it's irrelevant - not like Tolkeen or the CS' destiny will change things very much for the Principate of Vlatava, a neighbor and ally of the NGR against marauding forces of Brodkill, Mindwerks or russian warlords.

And yet, our most recent game does have some of the Tolkeen War - not yet over - as background to our own game. One of the players is a Cyber Knight leader who just left after the Sorcerer's Revenge, the other is a son of Alistair Dunscon fighting as an ally in a demonstration of goodwill of the Federation (yes, sure - nope, he's simply a very powerful and well-placed spy), currently divided between abandoning the war because he thinks Tolkeen bit more than it could chew to win (he sees doom, but for many incorrect, if sensible, reasons) & his desire not to leave so many potential followers due to his current popularity - not to mention his secret romance with the Lady Smith of the Council, what might be far more problem than it is worth for a villain like him.

Each game is its own thing and continuity is only as relevant as GM and players wish it to be.

Considering the number of major events - Four Horsemen, Mechanoids, War with the Xiticix - the designer team threw around that ended up amounting to nothing, i honestly see no big deal at all with utterly ignoring the Tolkeen War to focus in another plot, be it from previous books or a homebrewed one.

Overall it's not like the Tolkeen War books are bad - what rankles at many is how the authors made a linchpin of the CS' victory such an utterly unconvincing marty-stu miracle as Jericho Holmes' forces survival against the Xiticix.

[DhAkael]

CS dusts Tolkeen due to "CS script immunity and C.E.O. doesn't know history".
HOWever... 79% casualties, ecconomy in the dung heap, very scared (and EXTREMELY resentful) alliances due to not-wanting-to-be-next-nuked.

FQ is DEAD. The entirety of the THAT nation-state has been wiped out, every man-woman-child in-game. NOT by the CS, but by someone (or thing) infinately more terrifying and powerful...and subtle.

Meanwhile in Chi-Town; Joe & Jane Average mook are wondering why their taxes are so high and why life hasn't entered a new golden age for them even AFTER the hated deamon-[censored]s of Tolkeen have been defeated. The high command and senate are looking at the Prosseks backs and mentally painting bulls-eyes on them. They KNOW they've stepped in it and even the much maligned magic users of the "weak willed and pascifit" Lazlo are starting to gather THEIR forces, and will not make the same mistakes as their kin in Tolkeen have.

In short, the CS won the siege... yay. A ruin of magic & rift soaked masonary, infested with wild uncontrolled magics and infernal scavageners. Comepletely useless for anything except to drain more resources and (dwindiling) man-power.
They now have set them selves up for a multi-front war, with unreliable allies (who signed their treaties under the shadow of nukes and railgun) gaurding their backs. Joespeh & Karl have shown they both are power mongers worse than any historical tyrant and incapable of comprehending reality.

All in all... yeah, the CS is doomed. *shrug* I took the Siege books, flippe dthrough them at the hobby store, put them back on the shelf to collect dust and went "Okay..all books from now on are gonna be 'CS WON'; fine. It's a hollow victory."
I've studied REAL history. The CS may last another 50 years, or they may only last another 12 months. Regardless, the sands in their hour glass are rapidly running out and there is a crack in the bottom bulb.

[Kagashi]

In my verse, the war happened, and ended with a CS victory as written. I accept this because future books are going to be written with that plot intact.

What I didnt agree with was the time span. Technology shouldn't have won in a sustained war of attrition against magic. For the CS to win, it would have had to have been in the initial engagements.

Then again, nobody expected the United States to win a war against Spain in the 1890s either. Point is, things happen outside what people expect all the time.

I treat the Juicer Uprising, the coming of the 4 Horseman, the Mechanoid Invasion, and the beginning of the Bug War in the same light. They all happened in the recent Rifts past, no matter if the players took part in them or not.

[Natasha]

I thought that I did not like meta-plots, but it turns out that I ended up using it and don't mind it. Although the only reason it's being used is that it was a bigger part of the characters the players wrote up than I anticipated when I first designed the campaign so it's being used. In our current campaign, the war happened and it affected the lives of a couple of the PCs. It seems that it still is affecting them, but as the campaign is underway I can't really say if that is real or perceived since they read these boards.

[Pepsi Jedi]

I used and played out through the entire war once. It was pretty fun. I did NOT use ------every single thing------- in every book. As stated in the books them selves, that'd take about 20 years to play out. But I used it. Had alot of fun playing though it. Changed some minor things, to custom tailor it to our group. Skipped over a few things, or had them happen in parts or area's of the war my players were not.

By and large I liked the books. I like the rift's setting, but don't want it to be stagnant. I want it to move forward. To advance. Other wise there's soooooooooo much information and..... noone's doing anything? Doesn't seem right.

In our game, Tolkeen lost, if anything a bit quicker, due to some less bone headed moves in our games. They didn't go easy but they did go.

So 1) Yes we used the Tolkeen war. 2) Yes the CS won. and 3) Yes I'm in favor of moving the plot/timeline forward.

That being said I'm much less enamored with the Minion war. Maybe it's too big... (( multidimensional, tells me nothing my char' does really matters.)) Or maybe it's that... both sides are bad and badder... you don't empathize with either side, as they're both evil armies of demons and devils, and you want both sides to die. I don't know.. I've bought the books. Every one. I've paid my "palladium dues" and I'll buy the last one (( perhaps the one I'm looking most forward to)), but yeah... the Minion war is very 'meh' to me. If anything, the only two reasons I'll buy the last one are 1) To support Palladium. I do so with my dollars, in hopes of getting the books I -do- want, by buying even the ones I don't, and 2) To get the information in it, that affects the meta-plot of Rifts. I.E. how Larsens Brigade, the CS, Tundra rangers, Lazlo and FQuebec respond to the war spilling over into rift's earth up there. I doubt my group will play it, but I want to know.

[Hot Rod]

We use the war as written, no matter how much we hate the outcome or the way it 'happened'. I would have much preferred a sourcebook for Tolkeen describing shops and armed forces than a mess of books covering what turned out to be a scripted event. It changed the setting, heightened hatred for the CS virtually everywhere and passed Tolkeen's influence on to Dwoemer and Federation of Magic. (So now we have 'Good' Mage and 'Bad/Crazy' Mage territories, so trite) I'd love to know how the CS bankrolled the war effort as well, No matter how efficient their manufacturing their losses ought to have bankrupted them long before the end of the war... (not to mention that we have 6 books each with scattered material that is hard to find or use)

Seriously, wouldn't it have made more sense to drive off the bug hive than to attack an extremely influential city that was perfectly happy to sit there and be a whipping post for the CS's propaganda machine?

Most of our games start after the war, probably because our PCs would side with Tolkeen (at least until they started the really Dark Magics) and likely win.

HR

[Mallak's Place]

At our table the war went down pretty much as written, the only difference is that in our game world the population of most cities are only about 10% of what they are listed as in cannon (Splynn is the most populated city on the planet) so the attacking and defending forces were only about 10% of what was described.

However the Environmental damage from the war was extensive with huge areas of scorched earth of nothing but explosion craters and ash. Along the Ley-lines it’s worse the CS forces literally flattened the areas on both sides of all the lines for a miles in each direction along the entire length of the lines. Nothing will grow there for years and there is nothing and no where to hide. Squads of skelebot sentries hiding in the dust will rise up and shoot at anything it sees flying along the line.

While the War was going down our group did everything we could to stay out of it. we have been there several times since the war 'Ended"

The City with a lot of its building under the metropolis spell is growing back despite the best efforts of the CS. Unable to totally pacify the city the SC has a strangle hold on its ruins. Mainly holding a line to prevent people from getting into or out of the city. They patrol the high profile sections of the city while sending robots, mercs and dog boy patrols into the others. The only the north into the hive lands is lightly guarded. Intel tells them that Xiticics target those with high PPE so the bugs are more likely to attack the tokenizes if they flee that way.

[TechnoGothic]

War ? What War ?
City vs a Nation is not a War.

[Jefffar]

Calling the CS a nation is an oversimplification. It's more like a city-state with a few colonies than a true nation.

[Crucible]

I did and got stuck in it for years. It was one of many reasons my game starting feeling the hurt.

[kdyal]

It sits in the background. Tolkeen won by a pre-emptive strike involving summoners, teleportation, greater air elementals with Immune to Energy and Chi-Town going up in a ball of nuclear reactor overload glory...

The Vanguard was discovered by accident when a Tolkeen spy was found by magic. Thus Tolkeen was able to neutralize them.

[Rockwolf66]

I thought that I did not like meta-plots, but it turns out that I ended up using it and don't mind it. Although the only reason it's being used is that it was a bigger part of the characters the players wrote up than I anticipated when I first designed the campaign so it's being used. In our current campaign, the war happened and it affected the lives of a couple of the PCs. It seems that it still is affecting them, but as the campaign is underway I can't really say if that is real or perceived since they read these boards.

Yup we do.

My character has family that was in Tolkeen durring the seige. Now I'm not sure what Natasha is going to concider cannon but in my own personal version of the seige Tolkeen lost the war but mauled the CS. Some parts I have kept like the failed invasion of Tolkeen itself in the beginning of the war and the CS sending in waves of Skelebots to their doom. Other's like Tolkeen being evil at the start of the war I've changed to a desparate people defending their home from a genocidal invader. The Sorcerer's revenge happens but in my version Holmes was eaten alive. As far as the fall goes that was a matter of the CS sueing FQ for peace and useing the Army they had on the FQ front to bulldoze and exausted Tolkeen into the ground.

[TechnoGothic]

Calling the CS a nation is an oversimplification. It's more like a city-state with a few colonies than a true nation.

The CS is a group of States more or less.
Each "State", is like a Country to itself in size, population numbers, etc.

In Todays world, it would be Like if Italy, France, Spain, and England united itself into a United-Country under one Federal government. Kinda like the U.S.A. is actually 50 seperate nations united under one federal government. The CS just has fewer Nations united so far. BUT its still a Nation to itself.

Tokeen however is only a City and maybe a County around it in reality. More or less a City-State taken to full force. Which is what most of America and the owrld was originally suppose to be like. Groups of Powerful Cities claiming power claiming land around themselves. But still only really a City with a badass defense force. Like Kingsdale, Tolkeen, Lazlo, etc... While groups such as the CS seek to control land beyond the city limits and formed State-nations and then united under the CS government.

CS vs Tolkeen ?
Full Nation vs Just a City, nothing more.

In WWII, it would be Nazi-Germany vs Paris.

[Rockwolf66]

Calling the CS a nation is an oversimplification. It's more like a city-state with a few colonies than a true nation.

The CS is a group of States more or less.
Each "State", is like a Country to itself in size, population numbers, etc.

In Todays world, it would be Like if Italy, France, Spain, and England united itself into a United-Country under one Federal government. Kinda like the U.S.A. is actually 50 seperate nations united under one federal government. The CS just has fewer Nations united so far. BUT its still a Nation to itself.

Tokeen however is only a City and maybe a County around it in reality. More or less a City-State taken to full force. Which is what most of America and the owrld was originally suppose to be like. Groups of Powerful Cities claiming power claiming land around themselves. But still only really a City with a badass defense force. Like Kingsdale, Tolkeen, Lazlo, etc... While groups such as the CS seek to control land beyond the city limits and formed State-nations and then united under the CS government.

CS vs Tolkeen ?
Full Nation vs Just a City, nothing more.

In WWII, it would be Nazi-Germany vs Paris.

More like stalingrad.
You have a city under seige and you have outside forces slipping in supplies while the native try to make life unbearable for the invader.