44

[GhostKnight]

I just got a S&W 44 revolver and was wondering how the various ammo can translate. There are 44 special target at 400 ft/lb, 44 special at 600 ft/lb, cor-bon 280 grain 44 mag at 1200 ft/lb, and a bunch of others. Has anyone heard of a hotter load than the cor-bon?

[punisher1]

Well theres allways "Custom" ammo generally it depends on what your looking to do. Do you need the power as in more gunpowder per casing or do you want the bullet to do a particular task.

Armor piercing, Target, hollow point, safety slug, fragmentary?

[GhostKnight]

How about something capable of stopping a charging brown bear?

[BigLEE]

Generally speaking, any kind of magnum load is 'hotter' than regular ammo.

Even though the .50AE, used in the IMI Desert Eagle, is a magnum load, I think that the .454 for the Casul is still the 'hottest' load (not custom made) on the market today.

I've never tried to get a true accurate damage translation for the different calibers of ammo, there's just too many. I just try to make them comparable to one another (how much damage a .38 Special does vs a .45).

The S&W .500 is a bit more powerful than the .454 Casull.

It shoots a 400gr bullet with a muzzle velocity of 1800fps and muzzle energy of 2877 ft. lbs. The 454 Casull shoots a 325gr bullet with a muzzle velocity of 1625fps and 1600 ft. lbs.

By way of comparison the .44 mag shoot a 270 grain bullet @ 1250fps, producing 937 ft. lbs. The .50AE shoots a 325gr bullet @ 1400fps, and 1414fps. And a standard 9mm typically shoots a 115gr hollowpoint at 1100-1200fps and around 350 ft. lbs. (note: bullet weights and performance can vary depending on loading).

Forgot to add, COR-BON ammo tends to be hotter than most brands, but some, including myself, have had quality control issues with the brand.

[Jefffar]

There is much more to wounding than the energy the bullet has.

That energy is a decent measurign stick, but it's only part of the story.

The only reliable instant put downs are a hit on the CNS - which means the bullet has to penetrate deep enough to do the job. The other kill shot is a hit on the ehart. After that it's all about bleeding out.

Incidently, when it comes to penetrating a human body, the 9mm, 10mm, .40 and .45 ACP all do about the same. Which means they all haev the same chance of an instant kill. About the only real difference is the extra tissue damage along the way through. It's a pretty small difference, but the .45 does have a slight edge.

The higher powered rounds you guys are talking about probably wouldn't leave a wound channel any more lethal in a human than the .45 does. The only real difference is the wound channel might be deeper, and might pass all the way through the body. The result is more blood loss, but you're no more likely to score a kill shot than you would with the lowly 9mm.

What these rounds do better at is they go deeper in big animals. A kill shot on a moose or a bear has to pass through a lot more meat and probably some prety thick bones. These wrounds cna do that.

The other advantage these rounds have is because fo their higher energy, they are likely to still have that deep penetratign power at a lot longer range than the 9mm or .45.

So these rounds ahve the ability to kill larger animals and at a longer range than the favoured "combat" ammunition. Sounds great . . . but the extra power they generate also generates mroe recoil. This emans you need a heavier gun to soak up the recoil. Even still your rate of fire is educed as you compensate for the recoil and bring the weapon back on targt. You also loose ammunition capacity because these rounds are big and heavy.

The result is you get a heavy, slow firing weapon that is capable of bringing down large animals at longer range. Not much use as a combat weapon, but great for hunting.

[punisher1]

Well It not allways the size of the bullet it's where you place it.

Bigger bullets gennerally mean more damage, bigger holes, more massive tissue damage, more blood loss, bigger shock value.

However whithout doing any reseach into this, the story is a "contractor" guy in Iraq were using a frangable (spelling?) round.

Basically the standard 5.56 round that did massive damage upon impact. A contarctor shot a Insurgent in the butt. Generally not a leathal wound however it litterly ripped his butt off! Massive blood loss and shock killed the guy.

But again you can kill a charging elephant with a .22 if you hit his brain and turn it into jello.

There are many school of thought on shooting "targets" these days. Most schools do not teach head shots. For obvious reasons head shots are a instant kill or elimination of the target from combat. However it's hard to hit a head. So main body shots are preferred. If the target wears body armor then shooting the hips is the next best thing. You have large viens/arteries that run through this area so massive blood loss is the killer here.

They are now making armor to cover these areas also your upper thigh and shoulder areas too!

A good example of bullet placement. About a year ago I had to shoot a wild hog that was tearing up the lawn and pasture, it's common here in Florida. Pigs are generally a tough animal and I had to make sure it was a one shot kill.
Anyway I shot him in the neck from about 80 feet with a 7.62X39mm hollow point round. Hitting the neck bone (vertabrea) pretty much killed him instantly. I took a good look at the damage which made a nice 2 inch hole on the exiting side. I had hit the bone which shattered and made pudding out of the neck area.

So shot placement and the type of bullet made the difference.

[Jefffar]

The Frangible is an interesting choice. Fortunately for contactor the Iraqi's aren't using body armour. Against an armoured opponent that round would break up harmlesly on the outer layers of the armour. it would also be next to worthless dealing with a vehicular target.

Any bullet can kill, if it's put in the right place. Some bullets just have an easier job of doing it than others but still are not automatically lethal all of the time.

[BigLEE]

It's not the bullet that's dangerous. It's the amount of training the one who holds the weapon has been through

Once A Marine- Always A Marine.
Semper Fi
0331

I understand the joke, but the truth is somewhat different.

Depending on who you believe, cops have miss rates of 60% (according to the FBI) to 85% (according to the RCMP and others). Conversely, bad guy hit rates are in the 90% range (according to the FBI.)

Are the "Bad Guys" better trained? Nope. They just know there's going to be a gunfight before the "Good Guys" do.

[GhostKnight]

I'd actually prefer frangible for defense because of their inability to go through armor (or walls in a neighbor's house).

Otherwise... police are going to 40 because it's far superior to the 9mm. A 45 is better still but much harder to hold on target for multiple shots. A 45 GAP still has the same energy as the standard 45 ACP but the recoil to me feels more controllable.

The 44 is something that I'll carry while bow hunting, and possibly in the home. Either way, never needed more than one bullet so don't really care about multiple quick shots.