House Rules

[Novastar]

I was kind of curious what type of House Rules everyone plays under, so I thought I'd make a topic on the subject. Anything's open game, including revised timeline's and mecha.

A sample of my own:
A piloting Stunt takes only one action, rather than all in a given round.

A successful Evasive Action will allow you to dodge 4 or more missiles.

The REF shipped out with Vindicators (minus Shadow Cloaking Device) for their fighter complement, rather than Alphas & Betas. Alphas are micronized versions of the Vindicator, made after contact with the Masters & Invid; Betas are a booster system made even later for the Alpha (ala the Cyclone for the CVR-3 BA).

The REF fleet originally consisted of the SDF-3 and a small fleet of full-sized Zentraedi vessels (using stats from the Macross II Deck Plan books). The other REF vessels were built after the REF liberated/captured Tirol (first mission). Major Carpenter's ship was a prototype of the future Ikazuchi Command Carriers.

Only 4 Ikazuchi Command Carriers were slated for construction, and only 3 were ever completed. They were:
• Ark Angel (SDF-4); Instrumental during the Sentinels War, later went searching for the missing SDF-3 under the command of Commander Bernard.
• Tokugawa (SDF-5); destroyed during the Battle for Reflex Point.
• Valivarre (SDF-6); currently undergoing repairs in Earth space, following the Battle for Reflex Point.
• Jutland (SDF-7); destroyed before completion in Tirol space. Since it was never properly commisioned, the Colony Ship under command of Captain Maximillian Sterling was re-christened the SDF-7 in 2040.

Colonel Wolfe and Lancer were aboard Major Carpenter's ship, when it returned to Earth. They served in the "shuttle" (HA!) defense fleet when the Invid invaded.

And most importantly...
Protoculture is a power source, much like plutonium in modern fission reactors.
The Flower of Life is a drug to most species, but a food source for Invid.
Protoculture is the seed form of the Flower of Life.

Interested in seeing the responses!

[Colonel Wolfe]

And most importantly...
Protoculture is a power source, much like plutonium in modern fission reactors.
The Flower of Life is a drug to most species, but a food source for Invid.
Protoculture is the seed form of the Flower of Life.

Have you ever Seen Alien Nation?
it was a good example of how 1 thing effects 2 creatures diffrently...
Salt water Caused the ALines Skin to boil off, Spoiled milk was the Equivilant of alchol to the Visitors... great show.

I kinda based an Idea that FOL spores acted simmiler to Carbon-monoxide.. when inhaled it was easily absorbed by blood, and stoped O2 from bonding with blood... it also has a Slight Halucinatory affect, causing people to see thing as their brain was starving for Oxygen... Psychic Creaturs like the Invid cold influencewhat a person sees as they die...
Lucky people like Rand only inhale enough to be knocked out, and the Spored will be worked out fo the body by his immune system. but he still got the Ride on the Psychadellic mind buzz.

[Jefffar]

Where should I begin?

30 pages of revised rules?

15 pages of revised character classes (work in progress, more to come)

50 pages of revised and new mecha and vehicles

or

400 pages of EBSIS character classes, vehicles, mecha, gear, weapons, timelines, information and adventures.

[Colonel Wolfe]

This is a small list of the Rules I’ve written in my books over time…. Its about time I put them in a text file anyway….

The ASC/RDF/REF are all Subservient to the United Earth Government. And are nothing more then Different Branches of the Same Military, the UEF.(no 15 armies of the Southren cross BS from the Book)

The E.B.S.I.S. are a loose alliance of Non-UEG Member nations. Mostly ruled by Petty dictators who used the disorder/deaths caused by the Rain of Death to resume an Anti-unification movement. They are little more then High-tech bandits who control large territories of wastelands.
EBSIS designs are based off Modified Battle-pods, Re-armored and Altered to use humanoid style legs (as the Designs in the book are ASC powerarmors).
All EBSIS machines require 3 pilots. (This is based off a Macross Episode where 3 Micron-Zents Pilot a Battle Pod)
The Merchant Republic is Black-market Group based out of Argentina, they specialize in Stealing UEF equipment and technology and selling it to the highest bidder, The MR-Protector Destroid is the only non-UEF/non-Alien human designed Mecha. (i use the Crusader, minus the weird cloak and Jamming technology)

Robotechnology and Protoculture are Extremely Common after the Devastation of the Rain of Death. Protoculture Canister Technology is used to power most every Vehicle, City and Ship. (I figure the Battle pods had a 30second battle life, and putting a Multi-year reactor in them was a waste for the masters, so they used a Canister system similar to the REF mecha)

Canister Come in multiple sizes, Vehicle, Mecha, Ship and City. All based off designs found in use on the A.S.S.-1 and Zentradie Fleet.(based of the Episode where Khyron steals a Massive PC Cell to powere his Macronizing chamber)

All “Fusion Reactors/Turbines” found in the RDF/ASC Mecha are Proto-Fusion hybrid engines and Can ignore the Protoculture target bonus. The REF switched to the Canister style systems as they took a limited amount of Protoculture with them, and found the canister system was a more economical energy system for their mecha. (The Lose of an Alpha or Drone with 16 PC Canisters is a smaller lose compared to losing a 10-year reactor)

The Original REF Fleet consisted of Tokugawa-class Carriers and Modified Zent Landing Ships, re-built to be Colony Ships. Launched in 2016. The SDF-3, Which looks nothing like what’s in the RPG, Was Launched in 2022 to lead the Fleet.
They Followed the Orders given by Gloval, Establish Colonies and scouted for the Master Empire for nearly a Decade.
The REf Adopts the Ship styles found in the Southren cross Episodes)

The Factory Satellite was rebuilt in to 6 Separate space stations, 5 sent in to Deep space as bases for the REF Fleets. And Space Station Liberty left in the Sol-system.

The Origonal REF Mecha were a mix of VF-1, 4 and VF(a)-6 Alpha. The Beta was Origonally nothing more then a Fast-pack, did not Transform, Added 60 MRM, and could be linked with in anyform.(Keeping with the Designs seen in the Show) Later the Transformable Beta is developed.
the REf uses more space fighters, the Vulture used by Carpenters Ship, and the Conbat used in the New gen episodes.

The “Super” VF-1 is added Fast pack units, and only Carry 40 SRM, and cannot be used in Atmosphere.

The Invid never number more then 10 Million.
The Invid were never encountred by the REF until they invaded Earth. They Fight the Disiples of Zor.
The Invid do not Return to Earth after reflex point.

[Jefffar]

Wolfe, half of your stuff is common sense and similar to my fixes.

The other half of your fixes takes away almost all of my fun.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Wolfe, half of your stuff is common sense and similar to my fixes.

The other half of your fixes takes away almost all of my fun.

This is barely 10% of what I've written in the margens of the books over time.

how can these Take away from the Fun of the Game? I've Altred the Ebsis only a Little Bit, and the MR gets a better treatment in my version then Palladium gave it.

The Series never has the UEG being as weak as Palladium & Mckinney made it... so things Like the Ebsis can still Exist, but are nevr more then small fries, if they ever got the UEG to mad at them... Orbital bonbardment takes care of most everything.... Really, if they UEG in the Show can fund the 200+ ASC Ships seen on air, they can afford to put Satalites in orbit to get enemy positions.

[Drakenred®™©]

the "flower of life" is not a powersorce for mecha, but grants some ISP-PPE, however only the invid can realy use it, the "protoculture" cells are realy a fuel cell, and every "powered" unit causes the invid to get the sensor bonus(but body armor and

super VT is actualy a "B" refit with extra weapon packs and armor(Bascialy they are "FAST" packs), (and short range missles in the fast pack), the the S and "B" refits have upgraded avoionics (bascialy you get the "super" bonuses but not the armor) the standard loadout of the VT fighter is 2 hardpoints on the wings, with a loadout of(the (f) is the fusilage of the airplane)

loadout is either standard or strike or better VF (wingmounts)

1 2 (F) 2 1 LRM/CM or 1 1 1 (f) 1 1 1
3 3 (f) 3 3 MRM or 3 3 3 (F) 3 3 3
5 5 (f) 5 5 SRM or 5 5 5 (F) 5 5 5

with special assignments they can lug one of two hardpacks
10 10 (f) 10 10 SRM in a Arospace hardpack or
15 15 (f) 15 15 SRM in a Space(only) hardpack (the hardpacks can also be loaded with Mini missles (only) and that ups the payload by 3X

. I sometimes let the group mix and match hardpoints, depending on whats in their ammo dump

I redid the Beta and alfa to better match the animation, they are simular to the ones found over at Robotech reseach

changed the base damage of the GU-II to 5D6 with a FIXED paylode(no clips_ of 200 rounds, with a short burst doing 5D6 damage on a 5 round burst
(actualy 1 round does 5D6, we just tinkered with the way bursts work, short burst is 5 rds, each step up in burst type uses twice the ammo of the privious step, (IE 5 10 20 40 rounds fired) but the damage multiplyer is 1 2 3 4)

the 100 and 120 mm gunpods are single shot only (1D6X10 and 2D4X10, 30 and 20 rounds each)

their are special loads avalible, AP, Sabot(single shot weapons only) DUC, DU sabo, and a few others (see the Contemporary weapons guide for details, we just scaled thoes rounds up, but the "to hit" bonus Vs armor is changed to a natural bonus to hit with armor however the special loads are >>>>not<<<< standard

[Jefffar]

how can these Take away from the Fun of the Game?

Mostly becuase I find it much more dramaticly useful to have the UEG and its military forces, just barely hanging on by their finger tips. It makes anything the players do much more significant to the fate of the world.

It also makes it a lot easier to play tense situations outside of the main story arc.[/quote]

[Colonel Wolfe]

how can these Take away from the Fun of the Game?

Mostly becuase I find it much more dramaticly useful to have the UEG and its military forces, just barely hanging on by their finger tips. It makes anything the players do much more significant to the fate of the world.

It also makes it a lot easier to play tense situations outside of the main story arc.

the UEG/UWG from the RPG was too weak, if the Ebsis was a Real threat to them in the years before the masters invasion, then they would have never been able to combat the Masters at all.
The RPG places the ASC with Space Ships unable to reach the Moon, a Fragile Hold on the Planet... and they have to Stop an Invading Force The Size of the Masters? and All the While they are an Independently Funded Army, that si not part of the UEG..... but 15 Diffrent Armies...

[Jefffar]

Well I do have the ASC as part of the UEG forces,a nd I abandon the 15 different armies dreck.

The RPG has the EBSIS playing a major role in suppressing the Zentreadi threat in Africa in conjunction with the RDF and later ASC forces.

I tend to set up the EBSIS - UEG relationship like this:

Yes the combined UEG forces are more powerful than the EBSIS forces, but the EBSIS forces do play a role in defending the earth and helping to restore order (not the order the UEG wants, but it's better than the anarchy there was before). Additionally, taking out the EBSIS would be a major investment in time, money, personel and equipment, a major investment the UEG forces can't afford to make if they are going to be ready to defend the planet from the expected next alien invasion.

So rather than visit more death and destruction on an allready ravaged earth, the UEG gives the EBSIS a certain ammount of lattitude on an understanding with the EBSIS that stepping too far out of line will provoke retaliation.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Well I do have the ASC as part of the UEG forces,a nd I abandon the 15 different armies dreck.

The RPG has the EBSIS playing a major role in suppressing the Zentreadi threat in Africa in conjunction with the RDF and later ASC forces.

I tend to set up the EBSIS - UEG relationship like this:

Yes the combined UEG forces are more powerful than the EBSIS forces, but the EBSIS forces do play a role in defending the earth and helping to restore order (not the order the UEG wants, but it's better than the anarchy there was before). Additionally, taking out the EBSIS would be a major investment in time, money, personel and equipment, a major investment the UEG forces can't afford to make if they are going to be ready to defend the planet from the expected next alien invasion.

So rather than visit more death and destruction on an allready ravaged earth, the UEG gives the EBSIS a certain ammount of lattitude on an understanding with the EBSIS that stepping too far out of line will provoke retaliation.

Thats really no Diffrent then the Relationship ive set up, Except the Ebsis Purposfully Keeps a Low Profile to Avoid the Ire of the UEG... They Bully Small Non-member Nations... (Especially the Communist French Empire or CFE for Short). they Deal with the MR in the Majority of Trade, as well as some Trade with the UEG for Grain and Medical supplies. They have a Decent Acess to Protoculture and Robotechnology, but lack alot of the know-how to build truely new designs. They did Lend aid to the ASC during the Masters War, to honor Treaties and agreements, but still kept 90+% of their forces out of the War.
The EBSIS Space program is Quite Large, they have one Orbital Satalite, Tried to build a Moon base but were Asked(Told) by the UEG to stop. when the Invid Invade they Fight the Invid for 3 months before spreading to the 4 winds, Their Years of operation under the UEG helped them Hide from the Invid. the Ebsis was Key in Resistance movements all over Europe, Asia and Australia. They Easily adopted the newer Slavaged REF designs, but found the Dependence on PC-Canister to be a real pain in the but. (but the Reactor fomr a Hovertank works well in a Alpha... with a few custom Modifiers)

[Novastar]

Have you ever Seen Alien Nation?

Excellent movie, and a good TV series too...

Jefffar: Whatever you feel like sharing!

(I figure the Battle pods had a 30second battle life, and putting a Multi-year reactor in them was a waste for the masters, so they used a Canister system similar to the REF mecha)

I don't know where, put I could swear TBP's only had a 2-year reactor...
Let me look into it.

and the Conbat used in the New gen episodes.

Could you link a pic? I'm not sure which one you're talking about.

The Invid never number more then 10 Million.

Wow. How do you explain them giving the Zentraedi so much trouble, then? Until the Rain of Death, the Zentreadi Fleet numbered over 5 million alone...

the UEG/UWG from the RPG was too weak, if the Ebsis was a Real threat to them in the years before the masters invasion, then they would have never been able to combat the Masters at all.

I've always felt the UEG was strong leading up to the invasion by the Robotech Masters, but with the Armies of the Southern Cross so weakened afterward, the EBSIS became a world power...

[Colonel Wolfe]

(I figure the Battle pods had a 30second battle life, and putting a Multi-year reactor in them was a waste for the masters, so they used a Canister system similar to the REF mecha)

I don't know where, put I could swear TBP's only had a 2-year reactor...
Let me look into it.

it has an 8/20 year Reactor. 8 years of constant Use, 20 years of Average use.

and the Conbat used in the New gen episodes.

Could you link a pic? I'm not sure which one you're talking about.

Lancer's Fighter he is shot donw in: its been Called the Bat in the past, It Looks Like ti Evolved from the VF-4.
http://www.robotech.com/infopedia/mecha ... .php?id=64

The Invid never number more then 10 Million.

Wow. How do you explain them giving the Zentraedi so much trouble, then? Until the Rain of Death, the Zentreadi Fleet numbered over 5 million alone...

They never Foght the Zentradie, No Zent in the Series Mentions meeting/fighting anything called an Invid, The Invid are unknown to Earth nearly 20 years after the Zentradie Joined humanity (The ASC is confused by what the Invid are when the master mention them)... The Invid them Selves dont mention any Zentradie, they say the Master Fought them (and Defeated them at least twice), and oftern refer to humans and the Masters as nearly the same thing... if they fought 40-50ft Zents, the Invid would not confuse them with the Robotech Masters or Humans.
Even the Returning Forces from the SDF-3 and Pioneer Mission don't mention anything called the Invid.
The Invid are Much weeker then any of the other forces in Robotech, they are just entrenched on earth and are hard to boot off. (but they do have a Few Tough Mecha, and the PC Targeting Bonus is a huge help to even the odds)

[Comrade Corsarius]

I've made only a few fixes, but YES:

Piloting rolls only take one action

Alphas have nose lasers similar to that of a VF series

Betas have arm guns that are the same as the TC recon head lasers (I know, I know, but I didn't want to way overpower the things)

Protoculture is a drug, food, and fuel source as described above. Great analogy to Alien Nation, Woolfe. That's a great point of view.

Protoculture, by having a man-machine symbiosis can lead to a craft 'imprinting' with it's pilot (if it's flown/piloted by the same guy often enough) and allowing some small bonuses here and there (+1d4 to a roll occasionally if things look bad, GM's call). I'm also fascinated by the idea that the 'living machine' may well continue onward for a short time after it's operator has been slain (Taffy calls this 'ghosting'). I wrote a short story about a veritech that came home with it's cockpit shot away and posted it here. Maybe someone remembers it, maybe not.

I tend to play Invid-occupied earth, but after the Regis has left.

The EBSIS has been through a few incarnations (from good guys, to not-so-good guys, to dirty sellouts, to potential saviours of humanity (hey, governing bodies, leaders, and administrations change, you know!), and I suppose this is more storyline than anything, but they were a unified body, an alternative to the UEG, sometimes opposed, other times in conjunction with them (see Zentraedi Breakout, as there are EBSIS units and bases that are attatched to the UEG forces in South America). There are rogue units of not just EBSIS troops, but also SC and even RDF/REF units who are more merc bands/sympathisers than freedom fighters, and would gladly sell their services to the Invid. The CVS class of ships survived the Invid attacks and are the main staging, communication, and transports of the resistance (now mostly under EBSIS/freedom fighter control). Other underwater freighters (see NWO) are often used as well for coastal raids, supply runs, and dropping off the odd mecha that can be spared. The EBSIS treats the resistance in the same manner as the Allies treated the french Maquis during the war, supplying them with mecha, ammo, weapons and training. In short, I gave the resistance a core command that otherwise it lacked, and a (more or less) global network of communications, rather than just splintered bands of loosly-allied freedom fighters. The problem is they are also thin on the ground, but some major bases survived by dint of being built underground and not using flower power anywhere (mostly by luck, not design, as no-one knew about the invid/protoculture link early on). Some manufacturing capacity remains but large-scale troop attacks are usually reserved for hitting quickly and vanishing again. Prolonged battle against the Invid is generally suicide, although set-piece battles using soviet doctrine are still encouraged when conditions are favourable.

Post Invid (which is where I do most of my playing), pretty much the same, but portions of the EBSIS infastructure (notably in Manchuria, SE Asia, and South America) remain intact due to them not having protoculture. This is more marxist, similar to that of Lenin's true aims and also similar to that of the Sovietski in Rifts, rather than a brutal dictatorship.

Sorry, rambling, but that's my scenario.

[Colonel Wolfe]

some people have sugested the REF had Mutiple Sizes of the Titan, on that Fits the Comic version (Much larger, can Carry a MACII) and the Smaller on listed in the RPG.

I've alwasy considred the Titan to be from an Eariler era of the REF compared to the Ikazuchi and Garfish. The Titans would be abord Ships Like the 1100m L/430m W Tokugawa class, and actually be Trans-apmospheric, through use of Anti-Gravity systems (Like the Zent Landing/Rear... Reentry pods).
when they planed to Confront the Masters/Zentradie, verus fighting the Invid, which the Later Era Ships were Semi-good at doing.

[Novastar]

I forgot one of my most important fixes too...

Any mecha that relies on a Protoculture Reactor can instead use a Nuclear Reactor, but loses all Mecha Combat bonuses. In effect, the Mecha can still transform and perform normal functions (energy weapons, radar, missiles, battloid mode, etc), but otherwise becomes a normal vehicle (just like a Jet or Tank), getting no extra attacks or bonuses beyond that of the pilot.

[Colonel Wolfe]

I forgot one of my most important fixes too...

Any mecha that relies on a Protoculture Reactor can instead use a Nuclear Reactor, but loses all Mecha Combat bonuses. In effect, the Mecha can still transform and perform normal functions (energy weapons, radar, missiles, battloid mode, etc), but otherwise becomes a normal vehicle (just like a Jet or Tank), getting no extra attacks or bonuses beyond that of the pilot.

Why Strip it of Every bonus? Thats Very harsh, by the Rules Supplied in the Invid invasion book All the ASC Battiloids are Fusion Powered, and have Combat bonuses.
The only thing Switching over dose by Canon-RPG stats is Reduce the # of atatcks by 2, and halves the Dodge bonus, but this is only in Veritechs. Battloids & Destroids arent affected by the Change.... (pg 35 R:CB1ur)

[Novastar]

Originally posted by Col. Wolfe:

Why Strip it of Every bonus? Thats Very harsh, by the Rules Supplied in the Invid invasion book All the ASC Battiloids are Fusion Powered, and have Combat bonuses.

Cause I tend to agree with you & Rapid; I see no reason why the SC was running low on Protoculture.

While I think a Lion's Share of the remaining protoculture went with the REF Fleet, it makes no sense to leave the SC with fumes to run their war machines, especially with so many rogue Zentraedi still left on Earth (or in Earthspace; several Zent ships didn't have enough energy to Jump, but still had enough to cause no end of trouble).

So there's only two reasons why you would choose Nuclear over Protoculture:
1) You don't have Protoculture.
2) You've figured out Invid zero in on Protoculture.

Now, there are ways around this restriction. A Tele-mental Helmet such as the EBSIS has helps, or direct cyber-jacking of the brain into the mecha, but I'd still only give about half bonuses (rounding up). That puts it about equal to the EBSIS mecha (and the Soviets have been researching it a long time...).

[Novastar]

On the subject of House rules, I'm thinking of reducing Cyclone MDC in half. It seems to fit better, what with them having Autododge and all...

[Comrade Corsarius]

Why Strip it of Every bonus? Thats Very harsh, by the Rules Supplied in the Invid invasion book All the ASC Battiloids are Fusion Powered, and have Combat bonuses.
The only thing Switching over dose by Canon-RPG stats is Reduce the # of atatcks by 2, and halves the Dodge bonus, but this is only in Veritechs. Battloids & Destroids arent affected by the Change.... (pg 35 R:CB1ur)

I tend to agree. I have two 'classes' of ASC mecha. Protoculture and non-protoculture. The protoculture ones get full bonuses, the fusion ones get the following h2h bonuses:

Battloid: use the same as EBSIS battloid bonuses
Logan: use the 'basic veritech' bonuses
AJACS: use the logan bonuses
Hover Tank: use the 'basic destroid' bonuses

That gives the advantage still to the flower-power mecha with their greater man-machine interface. The EBSIS does well (and in some ways better) with the tele-mental helmet (I lift a lot from 'Firefox' and 'Firefox down'), but they cannot replicate the sheer perfection of the protoculture link and the 'near-living' quality of the protoculture powered mecha.

In short, EBSIS mecha is #1 as far as human-only design can get, whereas the UEG/ASC/REF/RDF benefits from an injection of alien technology that makes them superior in most one-on-one scenarios.

[Zer0 Kay]

And most importantly...
Protoculture is a power source, much like plutonium in modern fission reactors.
The Flower of Life is a drug to most species, but a food source for Invid.
Protoculture is the seed form of the Flower of Life.

Have you ever Seen Alien Nation?
it was a good example of how 1 thing effects 2 creatures diffrently...
Salt water Caused the ALines Skin to boil off, Spoiled milk was the Equivilant of alchol to the Visitors... great show.

I kinda based an Idea that FOL spores acted simmiler to Carbon-monoxide.. when inhaled it was easily absorbed by blood, and stoped O2 from bonding with blood... it also has a Slight Halucinatory affect, causing people to see thing as their brain was starving for Oxygen... Psychic Creaturs like the Invid cold influencewhat a person sees as they die...
Lucky people like Rand only inhale enough to be knocked out, and the Spored will be worked out fo the body by his immune system. but he still got the Ride on the Psychadellic mind buzz.

So how is it used then to give humans psychic powers?

[Zer0 Kay]

Well the thing I hate most is watching Robotech and seeing even the newest recruit dodge a giant volley of missiles, followed by transformation into guardian to perform a sudden brake allowing missiles to shoot past, then a change into battloid mode to shoot down the whole volley. So I "installed" a Autododge (Special) that Veritech Pilots get once they reach 5th level (negotiable). This allows them to dodge their level plus the difference of the successful natural dodge roll. Not only that but since it didn't take an attack the pilot has a chance to attack the remainder of the missiles if the dodge was a success. All remaining missiles impact after which the pilot can roll with blast/impact.

[Novastar]

I generally allow players to make a Tilt Dodge or Evasion roll to avoid 4 or more missiles. I also ruled that Stunts such as these only take an action, rather than the entire round. Makes combat more fast-paced (and gives PC's and BBEG's a chance to survive massive missile volleys...)

[Novastar]

Good Gravy, Basara_549!
Did you re-write everything you could find?
I look to make changes that allow the game to flow better, not to make it more accurate (I find establishing accuracy on any Anime a highly dubious undertaking...)

[Lt. Holmes]

Will you be making it available to the rest of us?

And my personal favourite house rule is making the players roll under their Read Sensory Insturments to correctly identify a radar contact. It also forces them roll under that skill to get a missle lock, costing an attack action if they have to do this in the middle of combat.

This naturally increases the role of AWACs aircraft. If the opposing aircraft can disrupt a radar/missle lock long enough, then the PC has to burn a melee attack and precious seconds relocking on.

[glitterboy2098]

i've started my own rewrite (partially inspired by basara's one, i liked what i played, i just thought it wa a bit more rules intensive that what i like....)

so far, i've rewriten the entire Pre-SDF Timeline (including making the masters rise to power make sense, and providing context to the 3rd world war ["global civil war" ]), and while classes have postponed it, i'm working on the rest of the timeline now.

i've already rewritten the VF-1 stats (gave it a few more versions to make it more versitile, and totally rewrote its weapons payload to be a tad more "realistic".[ IE: combined the VWC pods with some OSM stuff and RL inspired pylons, to create a variety of hardpoint mountable combinations customizable for many different roles.], i redid its speed stats, now its limited to under mach 2 under 20,000 feet (which is slightly more realistic), converted over to a G's of acceleration based space combat sysem, and rewrote the electronics to bring it more in line with modern aircraft (FLIR, laser targeting being for missiles only, radar and tracking ability seperated, ect.)

for later periods, i know what i mean to do, i just need to finish the macross segmet for balance reasons. i figure i'll likely junk most of the RDF era tanks and such, and just write up MDC versions of M-1's, challengers, and the like.

[Kagashi]

ive used a lot of these changes.

Here is another one:

The GU-11 does not have a "clip". Instead it has an internal magazine of 600 rounds that needs to be reloaded by a professional in the armory. Furthermore, to better make compatable with Rifts, I chaged the damages to 3D6/round, 6D6 for a 10 round burst, 1D6X10 for a 20 round long burst. No more full melee bursts. That was just too confusing.

I cant remember where I saw a cut out picture of a GU-11 and it obviously had this internal mag, not the clip described in the RPG. Also, where does the Veritech carry these clips?

Speaking of Mecha hand guns, the ASC "energy weapons" seem like they had projectile properties to them in the show, so they do in my mind. Furthermore, where does this "Unlimited" payload come from if it was an energy weapon? A palm link or something? So instead, I say 1D4X10/single shot, or 2D4X10 for a burst of 10 rounds. Dana obviously used burst with that weapon in the show. Lets give it a magazine/internal E-clip of 40 shots or so.

[Zer0 Kay]

For every level over 5 (i.e. the "aces") are able to dodge their level in missiles plus the difference between the unmodified to hit roll and an unmodified successful dodge. This is done as an auto dodge.

EXAMPLE: An attacker fires a volley of 10 missiles with an unmodified to hit roll of 9. The defender is 7th level and rolls an unmodified 11 to dodge. The result is the defender gets hit by one missile he was unable to loose.

[jedi078]

Cool rule Zer0 Kay

Me I've set the MDC system us as 1 MDC=50 SDC with a 12.7mm round doing 1 MD/50SDC

I then reset the damages per round for all the auto cannons and gunpods that fire conventinal (non energy) ammo.

Also I set up a type of AR system where certin rounds (determined by size) will not damage some vehicles/mecha

example: even though a 50 cal (12.7mm) does 1 MD it will not damage an made MDC tank or a destriod. This way if you have a bunch of people climibng all over your mecha/tank another tank/mecha can "scratch your back" and get rid of the pesky people climbing on your mecha/tank

[Zer0 Kay]

Cool rule Zer0 Kay

Me I've set the MDC system us as 1 MDC=50 SDC with a 12.7mm round doing 1 MD/50SDC

I then reset the damages per round for all the auto cannons and gunpods that fire conventinal (non energy) ammo.

Also I set up a type of AR system where certin rounds (determined by size) will not damage some vehicles/mecha

example: even though a 50 cal (12.7mm) does 1 MD it will not damage an made MDC tank or a destriod. This way if you have a bunch of people climibng all over your mecha/tank another tank/mecha can "scratch your back" and get rid of the pesky people climbing on your mecha/tank

Why do they have to use .50 cal? Why not have sub weapons that are a lower "AP" cal, that is incapable of doing any MD?

[jedi078]

Why do I use .50 cal and not lower round types? First of all most of the small arms fire (9mm, 5.56. 7.62) will damage a set of MDC body armor, but just do SDC. Example: A set of 50 MDC body armor has 2500 SDC.

I did try the system with the 9mm=1D4 MD (as mentioned in the “Sentinels” RPG book with the "Wolfe 9mm") it just blows everything out of proportion.

By using ratios 4MDC/9mm=X/55mm X=24.44 X=24 MDC and I get a single 55mm round from a GU-11 will doing 24 MDC by itself. That’s 240 MDC from 10 round burst using my burst rules for machine guns/auto cannons

My current system has a single 55mm round doing 6 MDC so again using ratios 6MDC/55mm=X/12.7mm X=1.3 so I get a single 12.7mm (.50 cal round) doing 1MDC per round.

Since I mentioned my burst rules for large machine guns here goes.
After playing with real machine guns and submachineguns in the Marine Corps I found that it is relatively easy to get all your "rounds on target". If you happen to miss with your first couple or rounds and have tracer rounds you can walk the remaining rounds to your target.

This said all the rounds in your burst hit provided

1.You don’t miss your roll to strike and the target does not dodge.

2.If you do miss and are firing a long burst (still takes one attack) and have tracers you can walk your rounds to the target by rolling a second attack roll (reduce damage by 50%)

3.You or your target is not moving (if one or both are moving reduce damage by 50%)

4.If you have tracers and the poor fool you’re shooting at dodged your attack by running away instead of hiding behind something and taking cover, you can still walk your rounds to the target (once again reduce damage by 50%). I’ve seen a video of Iraqi insurgents running from machinegun fire gunfire (it was a 25mm cannon from a Bradley) and getting cut down like grass.

[Zer0 Kay]

Why do I use .50 cal and not lower round types? First of all most of the small arms fire (9mm, 5.56. 7.62) will damage a set of MDC body armor, but just do SDC. Example: A set of 50 MDC body armor has 2500 SDC.

I did try the system with the 9mm=1D4 MD (as mentioned in the “Sentinels” RPG book with the "Wolfe 9mm") it just blows everything out of proportion.

By using ratios 4MDC/9mm=X/55mm X=24.44 X=24 MDC and I get a single 55mm round from a GU-11 will doing 24 MDC by itself. That’s 240 MDC from 10 round burst using my burst rules for machine guns/auto cannons

My current system has a single 55mm round doing 6 MDC so again using ratios 6MDC/55mm=X/12.7mm X=1.3 so I get a single 12.7mm (.50 cal round) doing 1MDC per round.

Since I mentioned my burst rules for large machine guns here goes.
After playing with real machine guns and submachineguns in the Marine Corps I found that it is relatively easy to get all your "rounds on target". If you happen to miss with your first couple or rounds and have tracer rounds you can walk the remaining rounds to your target.

This said all the rounds in your burst hit provided

1.You don’t miss your roll to strike and the target does not dodge.

2.If you do miss and are firing a long burst (still takes one attack) and have tracers you can walk your rounds to the target by rolling a second attack roll (reduce damage by 50%)

3.You or your target is not moving (if one or both are moving reduce damage by 50%)

4.If you have tracers and the poor fool you’re shooting at dodged your attack by running away instead of hiding behind something and taking cover, you can still walk your rounds to the target (once again reduce damage by 50%). I’ve seen a video of Iraqi insurgents running from machinegun fire gunfire (it was a 25mm cannon from a Bradley) and getting cut down like grass.

Agh back up the wolfe 9mm doesn't fire standard 9mm round that are found in todays pistols. They are likely DUR rounds that accelerate themselves to MDC speeds. So with that in mind why don't you use lower cal rounds?

Yeah I like the auto and machine rules from Mekton better but the mechanics just don't seem right for PB.

[jedi078]

And how would these DUR rounds accelarate up to speed?

Little rockets in the back (hey! an even smaller mini-missle!)?

Magic! This ain't Rifts or is it?

A mini-electromagnetic accelator (a real life rail gun)?

I mean come on, the tech level for knietic energy weapons in Robotech is not that far ahead of what we have today.

I would rather have people think (and go) "OH CRAP!!!!!" and go running for cover when tank comes rolling up other then "oh a tank?, well my Wolfe 9mm does MDC damage so I'll just unload my full 40 round magazine at the tank, that'll put some hurt in 'em!"

Even if they have .50 call they should still "OH CRAP!!!!!!!" since a .50 cal won't penatrate the armor.

I don't know the rules to Mekton, but if what I described as my machine guns rules are close OK.

[Novastar]

A "Wolfe" auto-pistol doesn't do MD; it's the 5 shot "Weasel" that does so.
(Though admittingly, why one 9mm pistol can't use the same MD ammo of another 9mm pistol is beyond me. I allow players to use the MD ammo with Wolfe's, but I've played in games were we could not. )

[Tiree]

A "Wolfe" auto-pistol doesn't do MD; it's the 5 shot "Weasel" that does so.
(Though admittingly, why one 9mm pistol can't use the same MD ammo of another 9mm pistol is beyond me. I allow players to use the MD ammo with Wolfe's, but I've played in games were we could not. )

And it still doesn't do much to a guy in MD Armor - Short Burst in the guy's back still is 1d4x2 (I rolled a 1) and I proceeded to get the Gallant in Rifle Mode.

[Drakenred®™©]

A couple of points,

the GU-11 has art from the creators that show it useing a Sabo round, but theirs also art from the same people that make the rounds look like oversized pistol ammo,

I also went in and changed the damage to - 1D6 MDC per 10mm, rounded down, a short burst is 5 rounds(1X), a med burst is usualy 10 rounds(2X), a long burst is 20 rounds(3X) a few guns (20mm vulcans or lighter) can fire an extended burst or 40 rounds (4X)

the 100mm GU X gun is a single shot weapon, and is one of the few mecha caried weapons that can use a Sabot round.

Early versions of the Hovertank used a 120 or 140mm auto loading main gun

the Beta has a completly diferent gun and weapon loadout

[jedi078]

I have the GU-12 as a 105mm single shot cannon. I then made a GU-11A1 version that reduces the ammo by 15% but you can switch between the 3 diffrent ammo types (HEAT-MP-ERM-T, APFSDS-ERM-T, and STAFF-ERM) instead of just having one ammo type.

The orginal VHT (used during the Malcontent uprisings) had a 105mm main gun and a 35mm auto cannon (basiclly a GU-XX)

By the time the REF left the VHT had a 120mm gun (with 11 difrent round types based off modern day munitions) and I have REF produced VHTs with an unremovable armored hood, and the right arm weapon can be changed out to use either a EU-XX, a Hammerhad missile pod or a 2nd 120mm cannon (for arty purposes) depending on the mission.

The poor Logan is called the GF-3 in my game and began life having a 35mm auto cannon (basiclly a GU-XX) with only 100 round (poor thing). The Super Logan is the late REF version of the Logun. I also have "Sea Logan" which is an SDV.

And I'm sure everyone has a diffrent type of Beta fighter.

[Zer0 Kay]

And how would these DUR rounds accelarate up to speed?

Little rockets in the back (hey! an even smaller mini-missle!)?

Magic! This ain't Rifts or is it?

A mini-electromagnetic accelator (a real life rail gun)?

The DU rounds would accelerate up to speed using a ramjet hence the R. Ramjet is old and reliable technology.

How else would you explain a 9 mil doing MD?

I mean come on, the tech level for knietic energy weapons in Robotech is not that far ahead of what we have today.

So your saying we have what 60mm chain guns now that do MDC? If a VF cannon can kill a tank they likely all use DU in order to get past the tanks... DU armor! Ramjet and DU rounds aren't more advanced than the tech we have. Hell the USAF has been experimenting with guided bullets capable of correcting their trajectory. Not to mention the mach 17 railguns where testing.

I would rather have people think (and go) "OH CRAP!!!!!" and go running for cover when tank comes rolling up other then "oh a tank?, well my Wolfe 9mm does MDC damage so I'll just unload my full 40 round magazine at the tank, that'll put some hurt in 'em!"

Even if they have .50 call they should still "OH CRAP!!!!!!!" since a .50 cal won't penatrate the armor.

Too true. So why not make there CVR SDC except when used with a cyclone. Since the damage goes to the main body which would be the cyclone.

I don't know the rules to Mekton, but if what I described as my machine guns rules are close OK.

Mekton automatic weapon rules basically state your weapon has x rounds fired in a burst for each point you hit by an additional bullet strikes. Then it deviates a auto weapon will strike a random location for each bullet while a machine weapon will strike the same location for each bullet. Often times the auto will have a higher "fire" rate than the machines and are used to simulate wildly firing weapons or shotguns.

[Zer0 Kay]

A "Wolfe" auto-pistol doesn't do MD; it's the 5 shot "Weasel" that does so.
(Though admittingly, why one 9mm pistol can't use the same MD ammo of another 9mm pistol is beyond me. I allow players to use the MD ammo with Wolfe's, but I've played in games were we could not. )

You want a reason? Hang on let me pull it out... OW The weasel has the ceramic barrel required to resist the heat produced by the ramjets igniting while still in the barrel. Where as the wolfe does not.

[jedi078]

I think the biggest chain gun round out that is in use today is a 30mm and they have DU rounds that eat right through a tank so yes we have MD capable weapons as of now. There is also 25mm, and 12.7mm DU rounds too, not sure about 20mm though. Unfortunately the barrels on 7.62 machineguns can't handle DU rounds, just like an Uzi can't use hollow points safely I suppose.

Also to prove the point you (a person) would not survive a hit from a single 30mm round, or a 12.7mm (.50 cal) for that matter. So by that rational a 12.7mm DU round does one MDC/50 SDC.

105 and 120mm tank rounds use DU so yes they do MD (and a lot more then what the Robotech RPG stats....2D8 MDC!?) and enough to kill other mecha. And I do have the ERM (Extended Range Munitions) versions of these rounds so tanks can kill more accurately with a spotter. Along with the STAFF rounds for taking out air targets, and did you know that HEAT rounds have a proximity setting so they too can take out aircraft?

[jedi078]

One more thing to say:

Disputing other peoples house rules is ridiculous, this thread should be an exchange of ideas that one could possible use in there game. If you don’t like it then don’t use it.

If you want to have 9mm ram jet rounds in your game hey that’s your game Zer0Kay.