What will cause the Coalition to fall?

[Toc Rat]

What do you think will be the down fall of the Coalition? Over confidence causing their leaders to take on an opponent that can't beat? A second civil war perhaps? Maybe a coup?
Or maybe enough of it's enemies get together and bring it down. Or a new alliance is formed in North America, one opposed to the xenophobic, genocidal ways of the Coalition.
Or do you think the Coalition can never fall. It will go on to conquer the entire planet! Of course that would bring the game to a crashing halt, afterall no more need for world books when each one is "Rifts-The Coalition State of Australia!"

[cornholioprime]

In Game:

NOTHING.

KS writes Magic Users and the City-States they live in, as too cowardly, and too stupid...

Out of Game:

NOTHING.

There's simply no way that KS can get rid of the CS.

For better or for worse, the CS is Rifts.....

[Toc Rat]

I think it will be a combination of factors. Over confidence on the part of their leadership and their enemies finally gathering together(if only for a brief time) and eliminating this threat to them all. I don't see Carl or Joe Prosek ever giving up their power hungry, conquering ways. They will always be trying their very best to increase their power at the cost of non-human lives and any humans that get in their way too. Sooner or later all such xenophobic, expansionistic governments have fallen. The Coalition will eventually over extend themselves and not recover. While I don't think they would be destroyed completly, I do think they would be reduced to such a level as to no longer be a threat for some time.

Of course this all depends on if KS/Palladium ever stops cuddling them.

[Braden Campbell]

I voted for nothing... the CS will never fall in-game. Mr. Siembedia had a chance to change it with the end of the Tolkeen saga, but chose not to. Players are simply not supposed to alter the game world.


I would like to see a civilian uprising. Never happen, but that;s what I would like to see.

[Blight]

It will never fall, It will rise up and crush it's enemys beneath it's armored boot, It usher in an utopia were humans can walk streets, go for picnics in local parks, and roam the earth without fear! (a guy can dream right?)
Coalition forever!

[dark brandon]

Nothing will.

CS is too much of a main enemie to have fall. CS offers way too many RPing opportunities for players to play with and/or against.

Anyone who wants to write CS off the planet fail to comprehend just how awesome they are as both a story/plot device, how truely intellegent, manipulative and dangerous the Proseks are, and as a nation state surrounded by a bunch of panzy magic finger-wigglers.

[Comrade Corsarius]

"Rifts-The Coalition State of Australia!"

Australia's ruling political party is currently 'The Coalition'. Ergo: There is already a Coalition state of Australia.

[Nxla666]

I agree that as far as plot/story goes the CS is a gold mine. So as far as Palladium meta-plot, not likely to happen, but only the Great KS knows for sure.

[grandmaster z0b]

"Rifts-The Coalition State of Australia!"

Australia's ruling political party is currently 'The Coalition'. Ergo: There is already a Coalition state of Australia.

Yeah and they are only slightly less evil and fascist than the North American CS.

[killhound]

as all things change so to must the coalition if it is to survive as we speak the enemies of the cs smells blood even the most liberal of states will be drawn into this conflict and the only winners will be splyn or the vampire kingdom.

[Toc Rat]

and have a nice coast to maintain a Navy.

Plus unlike the CS, FQ actually knows how to use their navy!

[Trencher]

It is the players in the campaing's task to destroy and/or bring law and democracy to the cs.
Or not...
But the prosek family and the cs military is villains and it would not be right in an rpg setting that they would get their just dessert from some "deux au machina".

[Mech-Viper Prime]

In Game:

NOTHING.

KS writes Magic Users and the City-States they live in, as too cowardly, and too stupid...

Out of Game:

NOTHING.

There's simply no way that KS can get rid of the CS.

For better or for worse, the CS is Rifts.....

the groundwork was laided in SOT series only takes one person to be a matyar looks what it did the christians

[Trencher]

Well there is one thing that will if left unchecked will destroy the CS.
Emperor prosek belive that if his goverment promotes illiteratcy his population will be easier to control and he is right. But it is a two-edged sword for easy to control population is also easy to take control over.
Tyrannical cults and political movements will have it easier in Chi-town than elsewhere.

[grandmaster z0b]

Well there is one thing that will if left unchecked will destroy the CS.
Emperor prosek belive that if his goverment promotes illiteratcy his population will be easier to control and he is right. But it is a two-edged sword for easy to control population is also easy to take control over.
Tyrannical cults and political movements will have it easier in Chi-town than elsewhere.

Yeah that's a really good point, it is also possible that the CS will have a chronic skill shortage unless it eases it's policies. It's technology will also be hampered in the long run and the CS' tech level could be overtaken by other nations whose population can actually read and wright.

I think this also applies to the learning of magic, ignorance will be the CS' downfall.

[Jimmy Crat]

nothing, though I believe the xixtic are the largest threat to the CS, and all of north america at the moment

CS, north america, THE WORLD!!!.

Maybe I'm exagerating, but I don't think so.

If ChiTown goes down, in the ensuing melees, Quebec will grow and problably fill in the Coalition power vacuum. Only Quebec will be more powerful since they use better Technology. i.e. "Chromium Guardsmen"
Plus they're not as surrounded by enemies as much and have a nice coast to maintain a Navy.

I don't know, the added tech is nice, but their failing to use dog boys could be their undoing...

[SirTenzan]

While I agree that the CS makes gaming in North America fun, I think in all reality the CS would be toast by now IF you used real world economics to describe the exact stats in the books.

Take into account some simple mathematics. There are ONLY 10 million people in the CS States! (Not including Arkansas.) Even at a ludicrous tax rate of 40%, with an averaged annual salary of 42,000, they would only get 168 billion credits annually. Since the CS doesn't trade their most valuable commodities you can't expect them to make more than 20-50 Billion annually in trade.

NOW, look at the numbers they've described for how many soldiers they were supporting during the Tolkeen War, look at the numbers of military vehicles, and similar. (Especially since those war machines described in the Coalition War Campaign book were all developed within the span of about 4 years!!!!)

Now also take into account that this spending is supposed to be in addition to things like sanitation, maintenance, government employee salaries, and so on.

They should be overextended and bankrupt as a result. Unemployment from closing factories and from dismissed soldiers should be rampant. Food riots and rebellion should be erupting everywhere. The Universal Credit should be the JOKE of the RIFTS world! Generally it should be mass chaos - but we have not seen anything like that in the books.

What will Kev have the CS taken out by? I don't think he ever will.

In our campaign the CS is considerably weaker than they were at the start of the war, as a result of all of this I've described, but nowhere near as bad off as the numbers mentioned indicate. In our Tolkeen war the CS had a total of four armies of 25-30k each deployed in the Tolkeenite theatre in the beginning. A trio more faced off with Free Quebec, in addition to the bulk of the CS Navy. After the end of the FQ war, and the Sorcerous Fury Campaign (Sorcerer's Revenge as the books called it.) the CS beefed their numbers back up to where they were, plus added an army, the CS Naval Infantry, and an entire army's worth of foreign soldiers clad in budget rate equipment produced in their captured IHA factories, or purchased from Northern Gun, Manistique Imperium, and Golden Age Armaments. Also the CS's military equipment numbers are different, so the costs to produce the equipment for their entire military structure was not so staggering.

I feel our numbers are more realistic, as this left soldiers to remain behind to defend the cities, defend borders, and similar. It also matched up nicely with a number just slightly superior to the number of Tolkeenite troops realistically able to be deployed.

[chaserone]

I believe nothing. Ive noticed in adventure books and over all of the books that there is miniscule acceptance of the nonhuman. Such as Joseph the II supporting the Vanguard and the more frequent uses of mutant animals and such. How long will it take before the CS begins to use these factors to further thier goals?

[Rimmerdal]

I can't see them being removed, Even If they we're beaten.

They would just go underground an Prozek would rebuild, with a vengence and the support of more people than before. Everyone loves the underdog...

[TechnoGothic]

Once i give the CS the Bio-Technologies from Splicers there is no stopping the CS.

An Army of Dreadguards/Archangels, etc...for pro-humans

[cornholioprime]

Once i give the CS the Bio-Technologies from Splicers there is no stopping the CS.

An Army of Dreadguards/Archangels, etc...for pro-humans

NOW you're reaching.

The Geofront (Rifts: China Two), Colombia, Lazlo, Federation of Magic, and almost every OTHER Kingdom/City-State would readily take to using such inhuman-looking, obviously alien Host Armours (ironically, created by perhaps Alien Beings themselves, the Librarians).....

...but NOT the Coalition States.

Not even if Desmond Bradford had the next fifty years to whisper into Karl Prosek's ear....

[cornholioprime]

I belive that the CS will over estimate themselves/under estimate an opponent (like the Slurgorth or the Vampire Kingdomes), and/or over extend themselves beyond what their resources will allow and get thoroughly trounced. KS cannot keep saving the hinies every single campaign, he angers enough of us, and he is going to start to lose sales.

AlexM (and you should know that by merely typing the Name of the Dreaded One, that he just might appear in this Thread soon from WHEREVER he currently is in the Megaverse) once gave me a fairly terse ( nit actually unfriendly, just terse) reply to a Post that I had made on a similar Subject that I and others HAD NO IDEA what was coming up in future Books.

Obviously, such an open-ended Statement can be taken any way one wants, but it seemed to my ears that KevSim and Company MAY have Plans/Designs on the Coalition States that will give them an honest-to-God, actual Empire-Threatening Situation down the line. And I'm guessing that it will be something OTHER than the Xiticix. Or even the Vampire Kingdoms.

Of course, we were also supposed to someday see Rifts: Lemuria.....

***holds his Breath***

[dark brandon]

Once i give the CS the Bio-Technologies from Splicers there is no stopping the CS.

An Army of Dreadguards/Archangels, etc...for pro-humans

NOW you're reaching.

The Geofront (Rifts: China Two), Colombia, Lazlo, Federation of Magic, and almost every OTHER Kingdom/City-State would readily take to using such inhuman-looking, obviously alien Host Armours (ironically, created by perhaps Alien Beings themselves, the Librarians).....

...but NOT the Coalition States.

Not even if Desmond Bradford had the next fifty years to whisper into Karl Prosek's ear....

Depends, but I may be agreeing with Cornholio on this. I don't have splicers so I don't know how they created their tech, I know in systems failure, they used alien dna with plants to create their weapons and stuff.

If it requires/has alien DNA, I see it much harder for CS to accept it and I dont' think they ever would.

If it is simply some buffed up venus fly-trap, made into MDC armor, I could see it happening. Alot of their armor and weapons look more "demonic" than actual Human,so the look of what the armor I dont' think has much difference, as long as it at least resembles a human or has humans using it.

[Trencher]

the CS will have a chronic skill shortage unless it eases it's policies. It's technology will also be hampered in the long run and the CS' tech level could be overtaken by other nations whose population can actually read and wright.

Yes skill shortage is a could be a real problem, but the cs has ways around it with video and symbol based computer language. Still it makes them vulnerable. What if the entire scientist population in lonestar suddendly got eaten by some giant cockroach-baloor hybrid?

I think this also applies to the learning of magic, ignorance will be the CS' downfall.

Or its salvation, they do have the specters who have the knowledge about magic and psyches to compensate.
Depending on your campaign magic can be as much as a hinder as a help.

[Natalya]

What do you think will be the down fall of the Coalition?

Ummm.....KS' retirement?

[Guest]

PETA will emerge once again.

"You can't treat D-Bees like that! They're people too!!"

Coalition will be doomed.

[Natalya]

PETA will emerge once again.

"You can't treat D-Bees like that! They're people too!!"

Coalition will be doomed.

People Eating Tasty Animals ??????

Oh! You mean the other PETA.....

[Nxla666]

MMM... tasty aminals.....

[cornholioprime]

...Bacon.......ANY Bacon will do.......even Dog-Boy Bacon......

MMM....glad I'm not (Orthodox) Jewish........

[Prince Cherico]

Personally I think the colitions numbers are way way way under reported
In game I take the 10 million people and I make it at least 100 million. What makes the colition differnt from the other places in north america is that
it is a nation state not a city state and their pollation should reflect that.

[RainOfSteel]

nothing, though I believe the xixtic are the largest threat to the CS, and all of north america at the moment

I disagree. I think the Mechanoids are the worlds greatest threat. They can conceivably be, at this moment, cloning an army of monumental size. I'd like to see the Mechanoids eventually get up to Orbit and challenge the orbital colonies and Moon Base.

They don't need to clone an army of monumental size. They only need to gather up enough Rifts-Earth info to build a dimensional gateway (it's not like the Mechanoids don't have major-league ultra-tech at their disposal, after all, their mothership's eat stars), and then they can just bring in sufficient troops (and they've got 'em) to wipe out all humans in a day.

What would really be interesting is the diplomatic exchanges between the Mechanoids and Atlantis.

[RainOfSteel]

There would be none, the Spluggies would leave. They, along with many gods, are extremely scared of the Mechanoids.

That is an element of conflicting information in various books.

I was under the impression that the Mechanoids only hated humans (and those that appeared human, i.e. bipedal lifeforms), but not other totally alien lifeforms. The Splugorth are totally alien, and so shouldn't the Mechanoids be more friendly with them?

[RainOfSteel]

While true, it mentions that the Splugorth are deathly afraid of them, as are Poseidan and some other gods.

The Splugorth are beings of corruption, they should be perfectly happy to corrupt the Mechanoids.

[RainOfSteel]

Then why are they shaking-in-their-hides scared of the Mechanoids (whom are already corrupt, really).

The situation is not adequately explained.

Maybe the Splugorth are affraid that the Mechanoids will hiccup and wipe them out without even having noticed they were there.

[cornholioprime]

There would be none, the Spluggies would leave. They, along with many gods, are extremely scared of the Mechanoids.

That is an element of conflicting information in various books.

I was under the impression that the Mechanoids only hated humans (and those that appeared human, i.e. bipedal lifeforms), but not other totally alien lifeforms. The Splugorth are totally alien, and so shouldn't the Mechanoids be more friendly with them?

No.

The Splugorth actually do assocate with humanoids, albeit monstrous rather than human-looking ones; and if they know that you associate with ANY Creature of basic Humanoid Shape, then the Mechies have it in for you as well.

Remember, it's more of an Insanity on their part than a conscious decision to hate humanoids....

[RainOfSteel]

While not human in appearance, I get the distinct impression that they are perhaps humanoid at least in appearance.

I'm confused, you're not talking about the Splugorth, are you?

[JTwig]

If they were to happen to fall it would be a combination of internal and external reasons. Of course this would never happen. As it has been pointed out many times in this thread, the CS is to important to the overall story of Rifts that to get rid of them would most likely only come at the end of the game line.

Now in the metaplot I completely expect them to suffer some minor defeat, or set back, just not one that destroys them, but halts (at least temporarily) their expansion. This has to happen, North America would be a rather boring place to adventure in if it was all under the control of the CS. Of course it would be one hell of an adventure to get to the point were they did rule North America.

[RainOfSteel]

If they were to happen to fall it would be a combination of internal and external reasons. Of course this would never happen. As it has been pointed out many times in this thread, the CS is to important to the overall story of Rifts that to get rid of them would most likely only come at the end of the game line.

Now in the metaplot I completely expect them to suffer some minor defeat, or set back, just not one that destroys them, but halts (at least temporarily) their expansion. This has to happen, North America would be a rather boring place to adventure in if it was all under the control of the CS. Of course it would be one hell of an adventure to get to the point were they did rule North America.

They can't even place areas nearby (the MZ) under their control. Any adventure placing them in control of NA would span 50 years or more. Now there's an epic to write.

[RainOfSteel]

While not human in appearance, I get the distinct impression that they are perhaps humanoid at least in appearance.

I'm confused, you're not talking about the Splugorth, are you?

Nevermind. Doh.

Still, even if they affiliate with humanoids, why do the Mechanoids scare them? Is it the sheer number of them? or something else we don't yet know?

In their home universe, the Mechanoids have titanic numbers, ships that are the size of planets, and those ships eat stars.

Anything as cowardly in their deep hearts as the Splugorth would inevitably be affraid of them, while at the same time being insanely jealous of so much might.


Oh, and I did catch the version of this post pre-edit. No worries, it's not like I've made a statement I realized was wrong a few minutes (or days) later.