Of dog boys and Psi-stalkers

[dark brandon]

Can dog-boys become vamps?

Can Psi-stalkers get magic tattoos?

[Nekira Sudacne]

Can dog-boys become vamps?

Can Psi-stalkers get magic tattoos?

To the first--i'd say yea, personally, though I have no cannon to back it up.


to the second--I can say definitivly no. Splynn Dimensional Market said quite clearly any Master Psychic cannot gain magical Tattoo's, so that's right out.


the only exception to that rule is True Atlantian master psychics can receive the Marks of Heritage, because they're bestowed before their powers develop, but they can never get any more.

[Killer Cyborg]

Can dog-boys become vamps?

Yes.
VK, p. 19
"Vampires rarely turn mutant animals, especially dogs, into vampires."

[Kalinda]

Can dog-boys become vamps?

Yes.
VK, p. 19
"Vampires rarely turn mutant animals, especially dogs, into vampires."

Beat me to it.

And Nekria is correct as well, master psychics cannot get tatoos, so Psi stalkers(and dog boys) are out.

[Marrowlight]

Dog Boy Vampires? Oh that's going to be loads of fun. Whheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[cornholioprime]

Dog Boy Vampires? Oh that's going to be loads of fun. Whheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Not really, I'd reckon.

The Texts in Rifts: Vampire Kingdoms infers that Vampiric transformations effectively "wipe out" what you were and replace it with a pretty much cookie-cutter, Vampire Template.

Same "Bat" Stats, Same "Bat" Powers.

I'd be rather doubtful that a Vamp Dog-Boy could still, say, detect the Supernatural (and as far as that goes, I wonder how much that Ability would be "fouled up" by the Vamp-Dog Boy, now a Supernatural Creature himself, trying to detect other SuperNats?? My guess is that it would be like trying to sniff out a particular Rose in the Garden while you're wearing a doo-doo Overcoat).

[Trencher]

Creating a dog boy vampire and teach him to pretent to be a werewolf could confuse would-be vampire hunters.

[Vrykolas2k]

Dog Boy Vampires? Oh that's going to be loads of fun. Whheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Not really, I'd reckon.

The Texts in Rifts: Vampire Kingdoms infers that Vampiric transformations effectively "wipe out" what you were and replace it with a pretty much cookie-cutter, Vampire Template.

Same "Bat" Stats, Same "Bat" Powers.

I'd be rather doubtful that a Vamp Dog-Boy could still, say, detect the Supernatural (and as far as that goes, I wonder how much that Ability would be "fouled up" by the Vamp-Dog Boy, now a Supernatural Creature himself, trying to detect other SuperNats?? My guess is that it would be like trying to sniff out a particular Rose in the Garden while you're wearing a doo-doo Overcoat).

I think quite a few people think that way, but that's nae how it works.
If the dog boy retained the ability to detect supernatural, it wouldn't be fouled up in any way. Nor is a supernatural creature's ability to detect evil. Else, why would half of the supernatural creatures in the games have it.

[Dead Boy]

Creating a dog boy vampire and teach him to pretent to be a werewolf could confuse would-be vampire hunters.

Not that much. An overdose of silver bullets will do the job just fine in either case.

[PigLickJF]

Heh, nothing against you Jannisary, but I always find it kind of funny when someone comes into a thread in which several people have already answered a question backed up with canon references and then answers the exact opposite.

PigLick

[PigLickJF]

Heh, nothing against you Jannisary, but I always find it kind of funny when someone comes into a thread in which several people have already answered a question backed up with canon references and then answers the exact opposite.

PigLick

None taken. I'd back up my stuff with canon refs if I were near my books but I'm not.

No one has posted canon pages or refs for the Psi-stalker part though. I will look it up when I get back to the barracks but I'm pretty sure that since Psi-stalkers are human, they can get tattoos. I don't recall anything about psyhics not being able to have tattoos.

As Nekira mentioned, it's in Splynn Dimensional Market, pg 107 specifically.

Granted, there is *some* wiggle room, since the passage reads "In most cases, Master Psychics can not receive magic tattoos..." However, the previous paragraph mentions that most human mutants can't receive tattoos. Since psi-stalkers are both human mutants (at best, although isn't the jury still kind of out on whether they're actually humans or are actually a separate species?) and Master Psychics, I'd definitely say they can't get tats.

PigLick

[Toc Rat]

I do not have that book so am going by World Book Two Atlantis. There is no limitations in there on human psychics having tattoos. I also went by the Book Of Magic and it lists no such limitation on Psychics.

Yet again it would seem Rifts has given us a confliction in the rules.

[Killer Cyborg]

I do not have that book so am going by World Book Two Atlantis. There is no limitations in there on human psychics having tattoos. I also went by the Book Of Magic and it lists no such limitation on Psychics.

Yet again it would seem Rifts has given us a confliction in the rules.

It would only be a conflict if the books somewhere said that they COULD get magic tattoos.
The books don't say that, so it's a single canon rule that is only mentioned once.

[PigLickJF]

I do not have that book so am going by World Book Two Atlantis. There is no limitations in there on human psychics having tattoos. I also went by the Book Of Magic and it lists no such limitation on Psychics.

Yet again it would seem Rifts has given us a confliction in the rules.

It would only be a conflict if the books somewhere said that they COULD get magic tattoos.
The books don't say that, so it's a single canon rule that is only mentioned once.

I wouldn't call it a conflict, but I would call it a revision, or I suppose a clarification if you want to be real generous about it.

WB2 does discuss in some length who can and cannot get magic tattoos, and the effects it has on those who do get them. It doesn't say that master psychics don't get them, but since it doesn't say that they can't, one could assume that they can. Then they came along later and revised it to say that mutants and master psychics can't, so now there's no question.

PigLick

[Toc Rat]

I say there is still room for argument simply because of the BoM. It came out long after WB2.

ARGH! Why can't they just stick with an idea? Or read what they put out in previous books before writting stuff that might conflict with prior work?

[Killer Cyborg]

I say there is still room for argument simply because of the BoM. It came out long after WB2.

The BoM is not complete
If you assume that anything not mentioned or detailed in the BoM has been edited out of the game....
Well, that would be interesting to see.

[Toc Rat]

The BoM is not complete
If you assume that anything not mentioned or detailed in the BoM has been edited out of the game....
Well, that would be interesting to see.

Wouldn't it?

[Trencher]

Not that much. An overdose of silver bullets will do the job just fine in either case.

The local pesants are less likely to pull out the sqirt guns though.

[Vrykolas2k]

Heh, nothing against you Jannisary, but I always find it kind of funny when someone comes into a thread in which several people have already answered a question backed up with canon references and then answers the exact opposite.

PigLick

None taken. I'd back up my stuff with canon refs if I were near my books but I'm not.

No one has posted canon pages or refs for the Psi-stalker part though. I will look it up when I get back to the barracks but I'm pretty sure that since Psi-stalkers are human, they can get tattoos. I don't recall anything about psyhics not being able to have tattoos.

The New West has some info on non-human vamps. As does Vampire Kingdoms, itself.

[Nekira Sudacne]

I thought that there was a phrase in Splynn Deminsion Market saying that for the most part, Master psionics cannot use tattoos due to their low PPE base or something like that. I'm not sure... it's like the first 2 lines of the 3rd or 4th paragraph in the Tattoo section of splynn. Its been a while so I'm pretty fuzzy on it, but I thought that there was the posibility of a master psionic getting tattoos.

There is 0% chance.

the ONLY exception is the case of True Atlantians, who can use the Marks of Heritage because they are given before the psychic powers manifest themselves

[Dr. Doom III]

I thought that there was a phrase in Splynn Deminsion Market saying that for the most part, Master psionics cannot use tattoos due to their low PPE base or something like that. I'm not sure... it's like the first 2 lines of the 3rd or 4th paragraph in the Tattoo section of splynn. Its been a while so I'm pretty fuzzy on it, but I thought that there was the posibility of a master psionic getting tattoos.

There is 0% chance.

the ONLY exception is the case of True Atlantians, who can use the Marks of Heritage because they are given before the psychic powers manifest themselves

Book refference?

Yes it is.

[cornholioprime]

I thought that there was a phrase in Splynn Deminsion Market saying that for the most part, Master psionics cannot use tattoos due to their low PPE base or something like that. I'm not sure... it's like the first 2 lines of the 3rd or 4th paragraph in the Tattoo section of splynn. Its been a while so I'm pretty fuzzy on it, but I thought that there was the posibility of a master psionic getting tattoos.

There is 0% chance.

the ONLY exception is the case of True Atlantians, who can use the Marks of Heritage because they are given before the psychic powers manifest themselves

Book refference?

Yes it is.

To wit:

Page 107, Rifts Atlantis Two: Splynn Dimensional Market

[PigLickJF]

To wit:

Page 107, Rifts Atlantis Two: Splynn Dimensional Market

Huh, apparently providing that page reference once in this thread wasn't enough, maybe the second time will do it...

PigLick

[The Galactus Kid]

agreed

[demos606]

Yeah, True Atlantean Master Psychics get marks of heratige. Thats it. Nobody else gets any with the possible exception of the Chung dragons that *invented* tattoos but theyre all NPCs and can slide around the rules for PCs as needed.

[Kalinda]

I'm not sure I'd allow it in my game, It would depend on how far removed Psi stalkers are from humans. Anybody recall seeing anything about Psi stalkers being able to breed with normal humans? if they can't then that would be a good indication that they're too far removed for the tats to work on them.

Even if I did allow it, according to the book (SDM) The limiting factor is the Psi's lack of PPE reserves. A Psi-stalker only gets 2d6 PPE, for an average of 7 points, plus 6 from each tat. he wouldn't be able make effective use of anything but the weaker tats. (Although the thread on Cyberknights and Tats gives some good ideas for what he could do.)

[demos606]

I think it would state "all master psychics, excepts TA's cannot" if they were the only exception. As is it leaves it open to interpretation.

By saying "most" the authors leave themselves the option of later exceptions to the list that can get tattoos as master psychics. The way the rules and races exist at present, the only PCs that can be master psychics with tattoos are TA. Chuing dragons may eventually at some point be presented as a playable munchkin race as well creating another race with tattood master psychics.

Theres also the limiting factor of the doubled activation cost with less than 6 tattoos that would effectively squash the idea of tattoos for most psychics that could get them. Even with the added PPE per tattoo, anything but the absolute simplest tat would be too expensive to activate.

[Nekira Sudacne]

There is 0% chance.

the ONLY exception is the case of True Atlantians, who can use the Marks of Heritage because they are given before the psychic powers manifest themselves

Hate to brake it to you Nekira, but you are wrong on this one.

Page 107 Of WB 21 Splynn

4th paragraph starts off saying: "In most cases, Master Psychics can not recieve magic tattoos either..."

5th paragraph starts off saying: "True Atlanteans are one (please note that it doesn't say the only) exception tto this rule."

The fact that the TA is not the only exception is 100% proof that Master Psychics can [u]recieve[/v] tattoos. The fact of the matter is even thought they have them, doens't mean they have enough PPE to use them.

i'll conceed I read it as an absolute and not a rarity, i'll grant. apologies.


though I will say that with such flimsy evidence there is no other Master Pscychic currently printed that can recive tattoos

[Dr. Doom III]

There is 0% chance.

the ONLY exception is the case of True Atlantians, who can use the Marks of Heritage because they are given before the psychic powers manifest themselves

Hate to brake it to you Nekira, but you are wrong on this one.

Page 107 Of WB 21 Splynn

4th paragraph starts off saying: "In most cases, Master Psychics can not recieve magic tattoos either..."

5th paragraph starts off saying: "True Atlanteans are one (please note that it doesn't say the only) exception tto this rule."

The fact that the TA is not the only exception is 100% proof that Master Psychics can [u]recieve[/v] tattoos. The fact of the matter is even thought they have them, doens't mean they have enough PPE to use them.

Which leaves you doing one of two things.
Ignoring it and letting every master psychic have them which is clearly not intended or letting TA and Chang-Ku Master psychics have them and no others which makes sense.

[Dr. Doom III]

I agree with this 100% Doom. It really doesn't make sense, but perhaps it was done to leave it open for further development. When dealing with PB, your guess is as good as mine in guessing the reasons behind what they write.

Silly Illithid.
Nobodies guess is as good as Doom's.