Chi-Town destroyed during Siege of Tolkeen?

[dark brandon]

Well, Rifts is fantasy... but that sort of solution to the problem seems rather contrived to me.

Some sort of magical nuclear damping field could be going on... but still, shouldn't that also affect nuclear reactors, making them unfeasible?

IRL, anyway, even slight changes to the strengths of the fundamental forces would cause all sorts of havoc. Weakening the strong force would make fusion release less energy... but would also make the nuclei of heavier atoms unstable; strengthening it makes fusion harder to achieve but more energetic (I think).

Some people like to use the peculiarly exacting balance of forces in our universe as evidence for Intelligent Design.

Of course, there is some evidence that the fine structure constant may be changing over time... which would be really, really weird if it turns out to be true.

The problem is, there is no answer kevin or anyone would give you that would make you happy. (You as in anyone that would like to see Chi-town destoryed).

For whatever reason, Kevin has choosen not to allow this sort of thing in the game.

For your games, you have to figure out why. Not him. Hand of god? Sure, why not. Kinda lame and unimaginative, but it works. Other behind the scenes things...whatever. It's all good.

And nothing says that in your game Chi-town has to still stand.

If you look at rifts in too much of a logical way you're gonna lose the magic of it. If you don't let yourself let go of what you know about reality, of course there are gonna be inconsistancies. Kevin is an RPG writer, not a physisist, a biological engineer or a nuclear physist.

If you ever sit there and say "well, in Real life..." you're already wrong.

I'm not trying to sound like a jerk here, but seriously, Rifts is a game. Remember, in rifts, Cardboard on avarage is tougher than the stuff Glitterboys are made of. By all accounts, giants probably shouldn't exist *something about bones not holding or something like that*.

So, in rifts, people know how to make reactors to power walking monstrosities, but don't know how to make nukes. It shouldn't matter why. It's a game. All that matters is that that is how it is. Remember, rifts isn't a popular game because of how close to reality it is. Come to think of it, no game properly "converts" Real world to fantasy setting, and if it did, it probably wasn't very popular.

Of course, if you're gonna house rule it, then by all means, rock on.

[Qev]

The problem is, there is no answer kevin or anyone would give you that would make you happy. (You as in anyone that would like to see Chi-town destoryed).

For whatever reason, Kevin has choosen not to allow this sort of thing in the game.

Well, I don't particularly want to see Chi-Town destroyed. I mean... a game isn't fun without an antagonist, now is it? Or protagonist, depending on what sort of campaign one is playing in...

I guess I just have problems with "invulnerability due to writer's fiat". There's nothing you can do that'll make that kind of thing not seem contrived and (IMO) ugly.

If you look at rifts in too much of a logical way you're gonna lose the magic of it. If you don't let yourself let go of what you know about reality, of course there are gonna be inconsistancies. Kevin is an RPG writer, not a physisist, a biological engineer or a nuclear physist.

You certainly don't have to tell me... I know just how wonderfully illogical Rifts is!

If you ever sit there and say "well, in Real life..." you're already wrong.

Well, as far as I go, I enjoy asking "well, in real life..." sorts of questions. Since the point is having fun anyway, I guess I win. I'm the sort of person who'll entertain themselves picking apart science fiction movies; not because I don't like the movie, but because I like the nitpicking.

I'm not trying to sound like a jerk here, but seriously, Rifts is a game. Remember, in rifts, Cardboard on avarage is tougher than the stuff Glitterboys are made of. By all accounts, giants probably shouldn't exist *something about bones not holding or something like that*.

Yup, bones not holding, and the cross-sectional area of muscles not being strong enough, and the surface area to volume problems that crop up when they try to breathe...

I understand where you're coming from. Don't mind me, or take any of my 'arguments' too seriously; I'm just having fun. I enjoy prodding at the absurd.

So, in rifts, people know how to make reactors to power walking monstrosities, but don't know how to make nukes. It shouldn't matter why.

Yaknow, I just thought of a reason why people in Rifts might not make city-buster nukes. Wasn't the whole Rifts thing caused by a nuclear exchange in the first place? Maybe they all have meganucleophobia?

[Killer Cyborg]

All depends on how the rules of physics were changed.
I don't completely understand how all of them work now, so I can't say for sure what sort of effects changing them might have.

Well, Rifts is fantasy... but that sort of solution to the problem seems rather contrived to me.

That's cause it IS contrived.

Some sort of magical nuclear damping field could be going on... but still, shouldn't that also affect nuclear reactors, making them unfeasible?

IRL, anyway, even slight changes to the strengths of the fundamental forces would cause all sorts of havoc. Weakening the strong force would make fusion release less energy... but would also make the nuclei of heavier atoms unstable; strengthening it makes fusion harder to achieve but more energetic (I think).

Maybe the havok comes in the form of constantly changing laws of physics.
One minute you can dodge lasers, the next minute you can't... then you can again....

[cornholioprime]

All depends on how the rules of physics were changed.
I don't completely understand how all of them work now, so I can't say for sure what sort of effects changing them might have.

Well, Rifts is fantasy... but that sort of solution to the problem seems rather contrived to me.

That's cause it IS contrived.

Some sort of magical nuclear damping field could be going on... but still, shouldn't that also affect nuclear reactors, making them unfeasible?

IRL, anyway, even slight changes to the strengths of the fundamental forces would cause all sorts of havoc. Weakening the strong force would make fusion release less energy... but would also make the nuclei of heavier atoms unstable; strengthening it makes fusion harder to achieve but more energetic (I think).

Maybe the havok comes in the form of constantly changing laws of physics.
One minute you can dodge lasers, the next minute you can't... then you can again....

Would we call that Ruke of Quantum Physics "Scroedinger's -10 Dodge??"

[cornholioprime]

Okay let's not nuke chi town what about a EMP how much hardened curuitry can they have and how much protection and warning could get it I denotated a Low yield device with just that purpose. Think golden eye

Even THAT wouldn't work.

For purposes of Game Play, not even Energetic Particles can get "past" MDC materials.

Ever notice that there are no SDC High Temperature Damage Tables for people in MDC Armors who get hit by Super-heated Plasma Bolts???

Or Radiation Poisoning Tables for Characters who are in full MDC Body Armor in Radioactive Hot Zones??

Remember, Rifts MDC Materials are composed of Belief-Suspending (BS) Alloys......

[RainOfSteel]

It's up to the GM to decide what techno-wizardy works and what doesn't.
As a GM, I would rule that a TW WMD could NOT be made. Just like I would rule that nobody on Rifts Earth can make any more ICBMs; the pre-rifts ones are all that are there.

KC,

So, you think it would be harder to make an ICBM than an XM-288 Supersonic Transport?

[RainOfSteel]

As for Daniel's post... well, they already have nuclear technology in Rifts; it's everywhere. Every robot vehicle or war machine has a nuclear power plant. They're obviously well versed in nuclear physics; knowledgable enough to create mini-nukes, which is actually harder to do than creating great big city-buster nukes.

Actually, I mentioned to Kevin that he might patch things by simply explaining that the laws of physics got altered a bit when the Rifts came, and that nukes just aren't as powerful as they used to be.
I don't know if he'll go with that idea or not, but he liked it.

In my own strange version of Riftian history, nuclear dampers got developed in the last couple of decades before the Rifts emergence. Chi-Town has one installed. That takes care of nuke-terrorism, but I'm not sure about TW-WMD. It sounds reasonable that such could exist, but that does not necessarily mean that they do exist on Rifts Earth.

I also would only agree that it would be logical if some TWs were working on WMD. Most would be working on a better wing-board, or better sky-cycle conversion, rather than some super-powered weapon.

[RainOfSteel]

Actually, I mentioned to Kevin that he might patch things by simply explaining that the laws of physics got altered a bit when the Rifts came, and that nukes just aren't as powerful as they used to be.
I don't know if he'll go with that idea or not, but he liked it.

I would think that it was far enough in the future, with so many nuke powered weapons or devices having been made over the years, plus the environment is so hostile, the fissionable material is just hard to find in vast quantities.

Why waste it in a nuke when you would power a dozen PA or robots and lay a better swath of destruction?

1) Because fissionable materials aren't what fuel most "nuclear engines". "Nuclear engines" aren't fission power plants, they're fusion power plants.

2) All the plutonium ever used in fission bombs and for fission triggers on fusion bombs was manufactured artificially. It wasn't found, it was produced.

3) There is an awful lot of uranium in the ground.

[RainOfSteel]

Actually, I mentioned to Kevin that he might patch things by simply explaining that the laws of physics got altered a bit when the Rifts came, and that nukes just aren't as powerful as they used to be.

The trouble with this approach is that it is the equivalent of saying: "Hey, there is this nifty new magical field in the universe that does X, Y, and Z."

You can't really say "the laws of physics" just get altered without saying that the protons that make up the universe fly apart, that stars never ignite due to alterations in the strong and weak nuclear force, or that galaxies, stars, and planets never form due to alterations in gravity, etc.

What really happens is that you get a bunch of forced special case exceptions to the laws of physics.

If you want to call it magic, fine. But to say that the laws of physics are different but that life goes on normally, that's just not right.

[RainOfSteel]

Actually, I mentioned to Kevin that he might patch things by simply explaining that the laws of physics got altered a bit when the Rifts came, and that nukes just aren't as powerful as they used to be.
I don't know if he'll go with that idea or not, but he liked it.

Scotching the nuclear forces probably wouldn't work like that... fission and fusion reactors would no longer work, and depending how far this effect went, the Sun would probably go out.

I agree completely.

[RainOfSteel]

Well, Rifts is fantasy...

Not exactly. Rifts is a SF&F Cross-Over.

It has Science Fiction elements. It has fantasy elements.

Of course, most of its SF elements are squishy soft . . . but let's not take things to a state of liquefaction.

[RainOfSteel]

Of course, there is some evidence that the fine structure constant may be changing over time... which would be really, really weird if it turns out to be true.

The research was met with caution by many scientists, who also said that if it is accurate, then the adjustment to theories would be significant and far-reaching.

I would like to add:

If estimates of the universe's size based on inflation are correct, its diameter since the big bang, in centimeters, is 10^10^12. Given such an enromous size, it's hardly surprising we have difficulty determining the shape of universal constants by looking up at the night sky from 12-15 billion lightyears away and into the past, it as difficult as staring down at a grain of sand on the beach and trying to determine the shape of the world or its orbital mechanics from that data alone.

[cornholioprime]

It's the Alien Intelligence running the CS that protected Chi-Town from such attacks obviously...

YAAI Sighting!!!!

Cornholiprime -- -- Lord Nuetral

[cornholioprime]

Actually, I mentioned to Kevin that he might patch things by simply explaining that the laws of physics got altered a bit when the Rifts came, and that nukes just aren't as powerful as they used to be.
I don't know if he'll go with that idea or not, but he liked it.

I would think that it was far enough in the future, with so many nuke powered weapons or devices having been made over the years, plus the environment is so hostile, the fissionable material is just hard to find in vast quantities.

Why waste it in a nuke when you would power a dozen PA or robots and lay a better swath of destruction?

1) Because fissionable materials aren't what fuel most "nuclear engines". "Nuclear engines" aren't fission power plants, they're fusion power plants.

2) All the plutonium ever used in fission bombs and for fission triggers on fusion bombs was manufactured artificially. It wasn't found, it was produced.

3) There is an awful lot of uranium in the ground.

Agreed, although that's kinda like saying "The Empire State Building is a little tall."

There are TRILLIONS of tons of stuff in the Earth's Crust alone.....

[Kalinda]

Actually, I mentioned to Kevin that he might patch things by simply explaining that the laws of physics got altered a bit when the Rifts came, and that nukes just aren't as powerful as they used to be.

The trouble with this approach is that it is the equivalent of saying: "Hey, there is this nifty new magical field in the universe that does X, Y, and Z."

You can't really say "the laws of physics" just get altered without saying that the protons that make up the universe fly apart, that stars never ignite due to alterations in the strong and weak nuclear force, or that galaxies, stars, and planets never form due to alterations in gravity, etc.

What really happens is that you get a bunch of forced special case exceptions to the laws of physics.

If you want to call it magic, fine. But to say that the laws of physics are different but that life goes on normally, that's just not right.

Well, they already say that MDC armor and weapons that are taken through a rift to an SDC setting turn into SDC items. Altering the laws of physics in the name of game balance is nothing new to PB.

[cornholioprime]

Actually, I mentioned to Kevin that he might patch things by simply explaining that the laws of physics got altered a bit when the Rifts came, and that nukes just aren't as powerful as they used to be.

The trouble with this approach is that it is the equivalent of saying: "Hey, there is this nifty new magical field in the universe that does X, Y, and Z."

You can't really say "the laws of physics" just get altered without saying that the protons that make up the universe fly apart, that stars never ignite due to alterations in the strong and weak nuclear force, or that galaxies, stars, and planets never form due to alterations in gravity, etc.

What really happens is that you get a bunch of forced special case exceptions to the laws of physics.

If you want to call it magic, fine. But to say that the laws of physics are different but that life goes on normally, that's just not right.

Well, they already say that MDC armor and weapons that are taken through a rift to an SDC setting turn into SDC items. Altering the laws of physics in the name of game balance is nothing new to PB. :rolleyes:

That's not Physics, that's more "Kevin REFUSES to simply say that for Game Balance Reasons..." Hooey........

[dark brandon]

That's not Physics, that's more "Kevin REFUSES to simply say that for Game Balance Reasons..." Hooey........

actually, he does say it's for game balance reasons.

[RainOfSteel]

Well, they already say that MDC armor and weapons that are taken through a rift to an SDC setting turn into SDC items. Altering the laws of physics in the name of game balance is nothing new to PB.

I don't view that as a change in the laws of physics.

I view that as the magic of the rift in question altering the structure and makeup of the materials and/or beings in question.

[Killer Cyborg]

Well, they already say that MDC armor and weapons that are taken through a rift to an SDC setting turn into SDC items. Altering the laws of physics in the name of game balance is nothing new to PB.

I don't view that as a change in the laws of physics.

I view that as the magic of the rift in question altering the structure and makeup of the materials and/or beings in question.

You can view it that way (as do I, in fact), but it's not the official explanation.

[Killer Cyborg]

Just a comment, but more to the point you do NOT need to get a spy into chi town, for this plan to work, you need to kidnap ANYONE who has EVER stepped into CHI town,

God forbid you get an officer who lives on levels 4-22, pick and choose from a platoon of captured soldiers and you probably can find one that lives fairly close to the top (rich daddy got him a nice apartment) or some such.


Then you do the whole mind bond and volia assault is right on track.

Assuming that you have a mage with Mind Bond and the right spells to teleport, that's a very good plan.

Other ideas, (cruise missiles from Phase world)
Overloading a truckload of small power armor nuclear reactors.
black hole space magic?

Power Armor nuclear reactors don't explode, just leak radiation (judging by the main book description of railgun nuclear power breaches).

[Killer Cyborg]

Then you do the whole mind bond and volia assault is right on track.

Design your bomb to have a 5 second countdown and to explode if it is tampered with. Start the countdown immediately and shove it through the portal. Transportation is instantaenous, thusly before Chi-Town knows what hit 'em, or before they could even STOP it, (5s to defuse a tamperproof bomb is not enough..).. ka-boom.

Or suicide bombers.. strap a few warheads to a person with a dead-man's switch and again, the tamper-proofing. Step out to whatever location you've snatched and boom.


Magicians have the ability to deliver ordinance that terrorists could only dream of, and why they haven't is utterly boggling.

What sort of ordinance do you have in mind?

[Killer Cyborg]

Grab a few fusion blocks (4d6x10 MD), which are relatively cheap and available upon the black market, or maybe retool some warheads from a missile. During the war, it's not hard to imagine a few bots being captured from the coalition or being purchased from local underground merchants. Strap them to random person, drop them through the portal into the heart of some Chi-Town area. BOOM.

Instead of having to approach (often visibely) an area and risk detection, just teleport to the target and detonate before they know you're there.

Yup, that is feasable.
And it's not a big deal.

The biggest weapon you could send to them is a Long Range Nuclear Multi-Warhead. It does 2d4x100 MD, which is significant, and has a radius of 50'. So you wipe out 100' diameter area of Chi-Town and kill a few dozen people.
The CS will somehow manage to struggle on.

[Killer Cyborg]

That's the initial blast, however.

If you happened to teleport into say.. a reactor room of some sort. A chain reaction would be theoretically possible, however that could be potentially averted.

Probably why Chi-Town ensures that the peopel who have access to important rooms don't leave the city, especially unguarded.

Furthermore, imagine the psychological effects of an enemy that you cannot stop, striking you from halfway around the world in an instant.

"Halfway around the world"...?

Teleport: Lesser has a range of 5 miles per level. So a 10th level mage could only teleport things 50 miles... which would likely be from inside the Burbs if the target was in Chi-Town proper.
Say you get a 15th level mage... he has a range of 75 miles.
Still well within CS territory.
Good luck.

Having the ability to move within seconds from one location to the next without being tracked. Or that they could operate from one of any thousands of dimensional portals to strike you from somewhere within the multiverse.

Possibly.
Or possibly not.
Dimensional travel is vague.

It makes trying to track AQ seem like finding a nail in a penny jar in comparison.

I think that the CS can cover a 75 mile radius rather compentently.

[Nxla666]

If you happened to teleport into say.. a reactor room of some sort. A chain reaction would be theoretically possible, however that could be potentially averted. Furthermore, imagine the psychological effects of an enemy that you cannot stop, striking you from halfway around the world in an instant. Having the ability to move within seconds from one location to the next without being tracked. Or that they could operate from one of any thousands of dimensional portals to strike you from somewhere within the multiverse.

And now you see why the CS kills mages on sight.

[Killer Cyborg]

Combine the teleport spell with temporal magic, dimensional travel, ley line travel, etc... traveling suddenly becomes harder. Or repeated teleports to known 'safe havens', creation of portable magic 'beacons' that a mage could teleport to directly, etc..

*shrugs*

Magical terrorism would be highly effective.

About as effective as car bombs.
You can kill people and buildings, but not a whole city.

[Killer Cyborg]

If you happened to teleport into say.. a reactor room of some sort. A chain reaction would be theoretically possible, however that could be potentially averted. Furthermore, imagine the psychological effects of an enemy that you cannot stop, striking you from halfway around the world in an instant. Having the ability to move within seconds from one location to the next without being tracked. Or that they could operate from one of any thousands of dimensional portals to strike you from somewhere within the multiverse.

And now you see why the CS kills mages on sight.

Adopting a "killing on sight" doctorine wouldn't be good enough. I think what he was saying is that it would be easier than what the records in the books show. As in the teleport theory, all one has to have is the memory of the destination of the target as a mental picture from a previous astral projection recon mission and Dimensional Teleport. They Dport to one dimension other than rifts Earth then from that dimension Dport back, but to the target destination and whala. There are no range restrictions that I know of.

Astral recon might be a bit harder than you think.
It's not like the CS doesn't have anybody who can astrally project.

[Killer Cyborg]

I had mentioned:
cruise missiles from Phase world

hard but surely not impossible to get.

Theoretically possible.
For that matter, maybe some mage could rediscover the magic Circles that created the Balgor Wastlands on PFRPG... that's theoretically possible too.

But it obviously hasn't happened yet.

[Qev]

Assuming one can teleport into Chi-Town, one can do away with the necessity of having a nuke, simply by opening some sort of dimensional portal into the heart of a star someplace.

[cornholioprime]

Assuming one can teleport into Chi-Town, one can do away with the necessity of having a nuke, simply by opening some sort of dimensional portal into the heart of a star someplace.

Thankfully for the Megaverse, apparently only the Promethians can do this....and the bastards aren't telling the rest of us how...

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Assuming one can teleport into Chi-Town, one can do away with the necessity of having a nuke, simply by opening some sort of dimensional portal into the heart of a star someplace.

Thankfully for the Megaverse, apparently only the Promethians can do this....and the bastards aren't telling the rest of us how...

perhaps there is a reason behind it

[Killer Cyborg]

Assuming one can teleport into Chi-Town, one can do away with the necessity of having a nuke, simply by opening some sort of dimensional portal into the heart of a star someplace.

Thankfully for the Megaverse, apparently only the Promethians can do this....and the bastards aren't telling the rest of us how...

Well there are alternatives like:
Bottom of a trench of an Ocean. Don't be suprised of that type of explosion.
Portal bypass with the Calgary Rift.
Belly of the largest Xinticix Hive.
Splynn Dimensional Market.
If not the core then a place in the corona of a star instead.
A magma chamber of a Volcano.
Etc...ect....

In one of the books, Rifts: Underseas maybe, they explain that stuff doesn't carry over through rifts like that.
You open a rift to the middle of the ocean, water doesn't pour through it (and air doesn't pour through the other side).

[Killer Cyborg]

Belly of the largest Xinticix Hive.

I always thought using the Xiticix in this fashion would have been a great distraction/terror tactic since, unlike the heart of a star or bottom of the ocean, a hive of Xiticix could follow you through the Rift.

Exactly.
Good thought!

[RainOfSteel]

Fission and fusion are both nuclear reactions.

Too bad Palladium seems to be confused on what nuclear means as a power source.

I don't hold it against them, though, they are more about big, fun ideas instead of believable science & research. This is obvious with the nuclear power, mach 2 boom gun, mach ratings in space and so on. Personally, I like tech to make a little sense, but that's just me.

<Cheering from the peanut gallery. />

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Assuming one can teleport into Chi-Town, one can do away with the necessity of having a nuke, simply by opening some sort of dimensional portal into the heart of a star someplace.

Thankfully for the Megaverse, apparently only the Promethians can do this....and the bastards aren't telling the rest of us how...

Well there are alternatives like:
Bottom of a trench of an Ocean. Don't be suprised of that type of explosion.
Portal bypass with the Calgary Rift.
Belly of the largest Xinticix Hive.
Splynn Dimensional Market.
If not the core then a place in the corona of a star instead.
A magma chamber of a Volcano.
Etc...ect....

In one of the books, Rifts: Underseas maybe, they explain that stuff doesn't carry over through rifts like that.
You open a rift to the middle of the ocean, water doesn't pour through it (and air doesn't pour through the other side).

Really? Well thats seems stupid. Why certian things and not others? Does that mean if a fussion block went off right next to the rift opening, that the explosion wouldn't go through it to the other side? But, if a fly happen to buzz by and was curoius, then it would be able to? If energy from the sun couldn't go through it, then why is there visible light part of the electromagnetic spectrum going through. These rifts are considered more natural phenomenon and not artificial although artificially created at times perhaps. I would not go by that rule in the underseas book if I where you. If the makers of Rifts wanted to have there can of worms and then opened it, then their just gonna have to have thier worms!

and your point is?????

[cornholioprime]

Assuming one can teleport into Chi-Town, one can do away with the necessity of having a nuke, simply by opening some sort of dimensional portal into the heart of a star someplace.

Thankfully for the Megaverse, apparently only the Promethians can do this....and the bastards aren't telling the rest of us how...

Well there are alternatives like:
Bottom of a trench of an Ocean. Don't be suprised of that type of explosion.
Portal bypass with the Calgary Rift.
Belly of the largest Xinticix Hive.
Splynn Dimensional Market.
If not the core then a place in the corona of a star instead.
A magma chamber of a Volcano.
Etc...ect....

In one of the books, Rifts: Underseas maybe, they explain that stuff doesn't carry over through rifts like that.
You open a rift to the middle of the ocean, water doesn't pour through it (and air doesn't pour through the other side).

Really? Well thats seems stupid. Why certian things and not others? Does that mean if a fussion block went off right next to the rift opening, that the explosion wouldn't go through it to the other side? But, if a fly happen to buzz by and was curoius, then it would be able to? If energy from the sun couldn't go through it, then why is there visible light part of the electromagnetic spectrum going through. These rifts are considered more natural phenomenon and not artificial although artificially created at times perhaps. I would not go by that rule in the underseas book if I where you. If the makers of Rifts wanted to have there can of worms and then opened it, then their just gonna have to have thier worms!

As convoluted as the "logic" is behind the way Rifts operate, the Rule makes PERFECT "sense."

No two Planets/Dimensions/SpaceTime Coordinates have the EXACT same physical Characteristics, so you HAVE to have Rifts work like they do, otherwise, the "contents" of one Planet/Dimension/SpaceTime Location would eventually get emptied out into the other from pressure or gravity differences alone.

And that's just for PHYSICAL effects.

Let's not even attempt to go into what might happen if the Things on either side of a given Rift have different QUANTUM properties and they spilled over into each other's side of the Rift.....

[cornholioprime]

Assuming one can teleport into Chi-Town, one can do away with the necessity of having a nuke, simply by opening some sort of dimensional portal into the heart of a star someplace.

Thankfully for the Megaverse, apparently only the Promethians can do this....and the bastards aren't telling the rest of us how...

Well there are alternatives like:
Bottom of a trench of an Ocean. Don't be suprised of that type of explosion.
Portal bypass with the Calgary Rift.
Belly of the largest Xinticix Hive.
Splynn Dimensional Market.
If not the core then a place in the corona of a star instead.
A magma chamber of a Volcano.
Etc...ect....

In one of the books, Rifts: Underseas maybe, they explain that stuff doesn't carry over through rifts like that.
You open a rift to the middle of the ocean, water doesn't pour through it (and air doesn't pour through the other side).

Really? Well thats seems stupid. Why certian things and not others? Does that mean if a fussion block went off right next to the rift opening, that the explosion wouldn't go through it to the other side? But, if a fly happen to buzz by and was curoius, then it would be able to? If energy from the sun couldn't go through it, then why is there visible light part of the electromagnetic spectrum going through. These rifts are considered more natural phenomenon and not artificial although artificially created at times perhaps. I would not go by that rule in the underseas book if I where you. If the makers of Rifts wanted to have there can of worms and then opened it, then their just gonna have to have thier worms!

As convoluted as the "logic" is behind the way Rifts operate, the Rule makes PERFECT "sense."

No two Planets/Dimensions/SpaceTime Coordinates have the EXACT same physical Characteristics, so you HAVE to have Rifts work like they do, otherwise, the "contents" of one Planet/Dimension/SpaceTime Location would eventually get emptied out into the other from pressure or gravity differences alone.

And that's just for PHYSICAL effects.

Let's not even attempt to go into what might happen if the Things on either side of a given Rift have different QUANTUM properties and they spilled over into each other's side of the Rift.....

So large scale macro-scopic stuff are not allowed to pass, but everything else then?

There's no real rhyme or reason to it; just magic.

[cornholioprime]

Assuming one can teleport into Chi-Town, one can do away with the necessity of having a nuke, simply by opening some sort of dimensional portal into the heart of a star someplace.

Thankfully for the Megaverse, apparently only the Promethians can do this....and the bastards aren't telling the rest of us how...

Well there are alternatives like:
Bottom of a trench of an Ocean. Don't be suprised of that type of explosion.
Portal bypass with the Calgary Rift.
Belly of the largest Xinticix Hive.
Splynn Dimensional Market.
If not the core then a place in the corona of a star instead.
A magma chamber of a Volcano.
Etc...ect....

In one of the books, Rifts: Underseas maybe, they explain that stuff doesn't carry over through rifts like that.
You open a rift to the middle of the ocean, water doesn't pour through it (and air doesn't pour through the other side).

Really? Well thats seems stupid. Why certian things and not others? Does that mean if a fussion block went off right next to the rift opening, that the explosion wouldn't go through it to the other side? But, if a fly happen to buzz by and was curoius, then it would be able to? If energy from the sun couldn't go through it, then why is there visible light part of the electromagnetic spectrum going through. These rifts are considered more natural phenomenon and not artificial although artificially created at times perhaps. I would not go by that rule in the underseas book if I where you. If the makers of Rifts wanted to have there can of worms and then opened it, then their just gonna have to have thier worms!

As convoluted as the "logic" is behind the way Rifts operate, the Rule makes PERFECT "sense."

No two Planets/Dimensions/SpaceTime Coordinates have the EXACT same physical Characteristics, so you HAVE to have Rifts work like they do, otherwise, the "contents" of one Planet/Dimension/SpaceTime Location would eventually get emptied out into the other from pressure or gravity differences alone.

And that's just for PHYSICAL effects.

Let's not even attempt to go into what might happen if the Things on either side of a given Rift have different QUANTUM properties and they spilled over into each other's side of the Rift.....

So large scale macro-scopic stuff are not allowed to pass, but everything else then?

There's no real rhyme or reason to it; just magic.

How the heck does one roleplay that?

Don't really understand what you mean.

Just leave the Rifts be, and follow Kev's "Rules."

Creatures and People can go through, Environmental Effects can't.

NOT that difficult a concept to understand.

[cornholioprime]

Its magic, not science.

I like Res_Novae's thinking.

{EDIT - NOT APPROPRIATE - NMI}

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Its magic, not science.

No excuse.

yeah but its magical

[Zer0 Kay]

Its magic, not science.

No excuse.

It's not an excuse it's an explination

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Its magic, not science.

No excuse.

It's not an excuse it's an explination

magic is a science too , just not one people think of it off hand, because its magical

[Vrykolas2k]

Its magic, not science.

I like Res_Novae's thinking.

{EDIT - NOT APPROPRIATE - NMI}

Magic is simply alternative science.