What bonuses is there for Auto Joint Locks?

sinestus · Unread post by **sinestus** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 12:03 pm

um... didn't you post this elsewhere as well...

(as i commented there...)

from what i recall it's a combo parry/strike maneuver

full bonus to parry the move
flat roll to use the lock or throw

enemy has to use an action to defend

automatic does not mean happens without roll, just that it doesn't take an action...

Guest · Unread post by **Guest** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:03 pm

I recommend using the following additions to fix the missing bonuses:

Aikido +1 to Lock at levels 3, 4, 7, 11, and 13.
Ch'in-Na +1 to Hold at levels 3, 5, 7, 9, and 11.
Fong Ngan KF +1 to Hold at level 7.
Hwarang-Do +1 to Hold at level 8.
Jujutsu +1 to Hold/Lock at levels 2, 5, 8, and 12.
Kyokushinkai Karate +1 to Hold at levels 2, 8 and 10.
Ninjutsu +1 to Hold at levels 4, 8, and 12.
Sankukai Karate +1 to Hold at levels 3, 9, 13 and 15.
Shaolin KF +1 to Hold at levels 3, 9, and 14.
Sumo +1 to Hold at levels 3, 6, 9, 12, and 14.
Tai Sing Pek Kwar (Monkey Style KF) +1 to Hold at levels 6, 9 and 13.
Ts'ui Pa Hsien (Drunken Style KF) +1 to Hold at levels 6, 9 and 13.
Wui Wing Chun KF Gets no bonuses to Hold or Lock, due to the special nature of it's single combat move of that type.
Wu Shu T'sung KF +1 to Hold/Lock at levels 7 and 14.
Yu-Sool +1 to Lock at levels 2 and 11.

An Yin KF +1 to Hold at level 9.
Chao Ta KF +1 to Hold at levels 3 and 13.
Gui Long KF +1 to Hold at level 9.
Tong Lun KF While Tong Lun doesn't list any Holds or Locks, it does list Tsai Grip which specifies that it can be used with an (unlisted) Arm Hold. So, after adding Choke & Arm Hold to the list of combat skills known, give Tong lun a +1 to Hold at level 13.

Mantisking · Unread post by **Mantisking** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 8:30 am

If I remember correctly, in Rifter #3, Lee Casebolt suggested that the bonuses for Bodyflip/Throw also be used as the bonuses for Hold/Lock. The only style this is a problem for is Ch'in Na. Unfortunately, I can't remember what his solution was and I don't have access to my books at the moment.

Guest · Unread post by **Guest** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 11:51 am

Solothurn wrote:
Kuseru Satsujin wrote:I recommend using the following additions to fix the missing bonuses:

Aikido +1 to Lock at levels 3, 4, 7, 11, and 13.
Ch'in-Na +1 to Hold at levels 3, 5, 7, 9, and 11.
Fong Ngan KF +1 to Hold at level 7.
Hwarang-Do +1 to Hold at level 8.
Jujutsu +1 to Hold/Lock at levels 2, 5, 8, and 12.
Kyokushinkai Karate +1 to Hold at levels 2, 8 and 10.
Ninjutsu +1 to Hold at levels 4, 8, and 12.
Sankukai Karate +1 to Hold at levels 3, 9, 13 and 15.
Shaolin KF +1 to Hold at levels 3, 9, and 14.
Sumo +1 to Hold at levels 3, 6, 9, 12, and 14.
Tai Sing Pek Kwar (Monkey Style KF) +1 to Hold at levels 6, 9 and 13.
Ts'ui Pa Hsien (Drunken Style KF) +1 to Hold at levels 6, 9 and 13.
Wui Wing Chun KF Gets no bonuses to Hold or Lock, due to the special nature of it's single combat move of that type.
Wu Shu T'sung KF +1 to Hold/Lock at levels 7 and 14.
Yu-Sool +1 to Lock at levels 2 and 11.

An Yin KF +1 to Hold at level 9.
Chao Ta KF +1 to Hold at levels 3 and 13.
Gui Long KF +1 to Hold at level 9.
Tong Lun KF While Tong Lun doesn't list any Holds or Locks, it does list Tsai Grip which specifies that it can be used with an (unlisted) Arm Hold. So, after adding Choke & Arm Hold to the list of combat skills known, give Tong lun a +1 to Hold at level 13.

EEk. Thats alot work. Did you just make these up or did you go along parallel with other similar stats?

They're based on the amount & type of moves each of the martial arts get as well as the general concept of each style. The bonuses were plugged in at spots where the existing LABs aren't plentiful, so it balances out each level of advancement as well.

sinestus · Unread post by **sinestus** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 3:34 pm

Solothurn wrote:No where in the the definition does it say that auto locks are combinations. You can't rationalize that it is a combination either, because the style definition states that you use your opponents own momentum/energy agianst them in which your opponent is doing most of the work and you are merely "redirecting" it, therefore, its a single move and not a combination.

um...
that sounds like a parry to me...

dunno what you were taught in kung fu school, but 'redirecting the flow of the enemy's attack to expose them to a counter' was the very definition of parrying techniques is damn near everything i've ever studied...

combination moves tend to be more agressive (read: deal damage) thus their defining in a second section, and the cost of an action,

but the end result, 2 moves as one, is still the same.

otherwise, treat it as a simultanious attack (as locks and throws are attacks by the general definition)
tho, i don't seem to recall "take the hit then grab the guy" in aikido lessons... then again, i didn't get all that far in that one...

sinestus · Unread post by **sinestus** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 2:33 pm

maybe i shoudl clarify...

when i say 'kung fu' (All lower case) i mean any martial arts....

yes, the suggestion is basically house ruled based on RL experience... but that's because otherwise you're flat rolls all the way...;

now, granted, IIRC, N&SS does alot this way... giving with one hand and taking away with the other

(like shooting... -6 penalty to dodge, but -4 penalty to hit a moving target IIRC...)

so it's work with what you're happy with...

and i think i'll end my part of the discussion there 'cause every time we start talking RL it comes down to everyone having different experience, and such and so forth...
some people want reality, others want a game.