Why the CS?

[Killer Cyborg]

CS builiding a functional stone magic Pyramid must be after they start cross breeding with D-bees... oh yeah that would be half past never.

I can see them doing it to seal up a Rift.
I don't remember it saying that stone pyramids had to be magically built or anything, so why wouldn't the CS do it?

[RainOfSteel]

CS builiding a functional stone magic Pyramid must be after they start cross breeding with D-bees... oh yeah that would be half past never.

I can see them doing it to seal up a Rift.
I don't remember it saying that stone pyramids had to be magically built or anything, so why wouldn't the CS do it?

Unless it were magically built, it would just by a pyramid shaped pile of stone.

And for the St. Louis rift, that fact that it is open all the time.

[Zer0 Kay]

CS builiding a functional stone magic Pyramid must be after they start cross breeding with D-bees... oh yeah that would be half past never.

I can see them doing it to seal up a Rift.
I don't remember it saying that stone pyramids had to be magically built or anything, so why wouldn't the CS do it?

You know there is always that arguement that magic can't pass through vehicles even cardboard boxes on wheels. So park a giant vehicle over the nexus point

[Killer Cyborg]

CS builiding a functional stone magic Pyramid must be after they start cross breeding with D-bees... oh yeah that would be half past never.

I can see them doing it to seal up a Rift.
I don't remember it saying that stone pyramids had to be magically built or anything, so why wouldn't the CS do it?

Unless it were magically built, it would just by a pyramid shaped pile of stone.

Where's it say that?

[RainOfSteel]

CS builiding a functional stone magic Pyramid must be after they start cross breeding with D-bees... oh yeah that would be half past never.

I can see them doing it to seal up a Rift.
I don't remember it saying that stone pyramids had to be magically built or anything, so why wouldn't the CS do it?

Unless it were magically built, it would just by a pyramid shaped pile of stone.

Where's it say that?

You know, I've just reviewed what WB2: Atlantis has to say. I did not locate anything that says a stonemaster has to build a pyramid.

However, most of the benefits come from having a builder who can control it, and CS personnel certainly aren't capable of that.

As my personal house rule, pyramids must be purpose-built by those who know how to have the capabilities noted in WB2.

In a canon Rifts milieu (if there can be such a thing . . . IACRMITCBSAT), I guess the CS could just build pyramids over most nexi, except that it doesn't completely get rid of rifts opening up, and would provide a weapon for their enemies to come along and utilize against them.

The St. Louis gate, though, they'd have trouble capping it with a pyramid.

[Zer0 Kay]

CS builiding a functional stone magic Pyramid must be after they start cross breeding with D-bees... oh yeah that would be half past never.

I can see them doing it to seal up a Rift.
I don't remember it saying that stone pyramids had to be magically built or anything, so why wouldn't the CS do it?

Unless it were magically built, it would just by a pyramid shaped pile of stone.

Where's it say that?

You know, I've just reviewed what WB2: Atlantis has to say. I did not locate anything that says a stonemaster has to build a pyramid.

However, most of the benefits come from having a builder who can control it, and CS personnel certainly aren't capable of that.

As my personal house rule, pyramids must be purpose-built by those who know how to have the capabilities noted in WB2.

In a canon Rifts milieu (if there can be such a thing . . . IACRMITCBSAT), I guess the CS could just build pyramids over most nexi, except that it doesn't completely get rid of rifts opening up, and would provide a weapon for their enemies to come along and utilize against them.

The St. Louis gate, though, they'd have trouble capping it with a pyramid.

OK so let them build the pyramids that they've never heard about in function. Then those pyramids collect energy and then an even bigger phenomenon happens. As for the St. Louis gate... what happens if they demo it? I mean it is supposed to be the arch right? If it's permanent where is it to?

[Zer0 Kay]

The only way they would successfully controll and maybe even get rid of a rift is if they had the technological know how of Dr. Articulas? Is that his name? The one who can build time machines, and dimensional portals. Is that in the TNMT book? Also I like to add that this is the most likely cause of the coming of the Rifts in the first place. Some experiment gone horrorably wrong.

yeah the coming of the Rifts couldn't possibly be caused because of what they said. It has to be caused by the direct effect of technology, not a side effect as described.

[Dead Boy]

Don't make me laugh. I must say, you are a true propagandist. Reversing the truth about the CS and how the authors portrayed it, romantising the CS while also stating your liking of the CS and Nazi style of uniform and military genius , then accusing me of blatant, narrow minded, myopic, slanderous remarks. Ausgezeichnet Soldat! Carry on.

because you have proven time and again that you have a bigoted view of germans and any who admire germans of any stripe. I supose to you Oppenheimer was a Nazi sympathyzer?
Next you will be telling me I cant enjoy your art because i disagree with your political views.
It is possible to admire the genius of a man and not agree with their politics.

Thanks for having my six, Magecraft. It's a shame when people can't see past the blacks and whites of their limited perspectives, and open their minds to the infinite shades of gray that actually make up the world. You can join my beloved Vanguard any time.

PS: Love your home town! I even wrote a World Book on Missouri that includes the new CS version of it. Now if only I could get Kev to see it.

[grandmaster z0b]

The only way they would successfully controll and maybe even get rid of a rift is if they had the technological know how of Dr. Articulas? Is that his name? The one who can build time machines, and dimensional portals. Is that in the TNMT book? Also I like to add that this is the most likely cause of the coming of the Rifts in the first place. Some experiment gone horrorably wrong.

yeah the coming of the Rifts couldn't possibly be caused because of what they said. It has to be caused by the direct effect of technology, not a side effect as described.

Actually it seems that technology has some small part to play, the Rift machine in the Lone Star complex was turned on just as the cataclysm happened. Although that's obviously not the cause, just another small event in a series of events that brought it about.

[Zer0 Kay]

The only way they would successfully controll and maybe even get rid of a rift is if they had the technological know how of Dr. Articulas? Is that his name? The one who can build time machines, and dimensional portals. Is that in the TNMT book? Also I like to add that this is the most likely cause of the coming of the Rifts in the first place. Some experiment gone horrorably wrong.

yeah the coming of the Rifts couldn't possibly be caused because of what they said. It has to be caused by the direct effect of technology, not a side effect as described.

Actually it seems that technology has some small part to play, the Rift machine in the Lone Star complex was turned on just as the cataclysm happened. Although that's obviously not the cause, just another small event in a series of events that brought it about.

Oh please I doubt lonestars... unless they had a circle of power or something would cause the PPE explosion. Did it suddenly cause any deaths? But absolutely tech did cause it but as a side effect by killing the people to produce more PPE.

[Ed]

What are the chances of the CS saving the Earth? They'll never be able to close up a Rift so they'll always be fighting an endless battle...,

Wrong. Psionics can close a Rift, and the CS has batallions of psi's with more being trained every day.

[Zer0 Kay]

What are the chances of the CS saving the Earth? They'll never be able to close up a Rift so they'll always be fighting an endless battle...,

Wrong. Psionics can close a Rift, and the CS has batallions of psi's with more being trained every day.

Really? What books has that? I don't remember it.

[Zer0 Kay]

Not to mention that the CS has their own brand of magicians: RCSG Scientist. All of whom, I might add, are looking into ways to contain, neutralize or otherwise detect rifts.

RCSG?

[Killer Cyborg]

Not to mention that the CS has their own brand of magicians: RCSG Scientist. All of whom, I might add, are looking into ways to contain, neutralize or otherwise detect rifts.

RCSG?

"Rift Control Study Group"
CWC, p. 82

CS scientists who study rifts, ley lines, and such.
They have Geomancy skill, which might help them figure out pyramids.
They can ley line drift, and have ley line rejuvination.
It's a young science, too... who knows what they'll be able to do in a few decades?

[The Galactus Kid]

I always thought that their abilities of Ley Line drift and Ley Line Rejuvination would be somewhat frowned upon by their superiors or even other CS soldiers. In my opinion, the jury is still out.

[Killer Cyborg]

I always thought that their abilities of Ley Line drift and Ley Line Rejuvination would be somewhat frowned upon by their superiors or even other CS soldiers. In my opinion, the jury is still out.

It likely would be frowned upon, but if it turns out results (like helping close rifts) then they'd more than likely overlook it.
At least until the rifts were closed.

[Zer0 Kay]

Not to mention that the CS has their own brand of magicians: RCSG Scientist. All of whom, I might add, are looking into ways to contain, neutralize or otherwise detect rifts.

RCSG?

"Rift Control Study Group"
CWC, p. 82

CS scientists who study rifts, ley lines, and such.
They have Geomancy skill, which might help them figure out pyramids.
They can ley line drift, and have ley line rejuvination.
It's a young science, too... who knows what they'll be able to do in a few decades?

Others realize that the ley line drift and rejuvination are forms of magic use and slaughter them all.

[Zer0 Kay]

I always thought that their abilities of Ley Line drift and Ley Line Rejuvination would be somewhat frowned upon by their superiors or even other CS soldiers. In my opinion, the jury is still out.

It likely would be frowned upon, but if it turns out results (like helping close rifts) then they'd more than likely overlook it.
At least until the rifts were closed.

So now your saying a bunch of scholars are too stupid to realize that once their usefullness is outlived they'll be toasted?

[Mech-Viper Prime]

I always thought that their abilities of Ley Line drift and Ley Line Rejuvination would be somewhat frowned upon by their superiors or even other CS soldiers. In my opinion, the jury is still out.

It likely would be frowned upon, but if it turns out results (like helping close rifts) then they'd more than likely overlook it.
At least until the rifts were closed.

you know the only bad thing about that job is youre normally in a dangerous area

[Proseksword]

Frankly, in order to defeat your opponent, you need to understand it. The CS has to at least understand magic, if not use it. That's what RCSG is for. At some point the CS is going to have to manipulate the RIFTs and Ley Lines, and to do that is going to require some amount of magical manipulation. That means the CS is going to either have to discover heretofore unknown scientific principles which can be applied to magic, or they will need to use magic to the degree necessary to seal the RIFTs. Do I believe they will do it? Ultimately, yes, I believe if it came to it, the CS would secretly use magic to seal up the RIFTs, paint a propaganda gloss over it, and have the CS mages secretly disappear or kept on loyal retainer to the Proseks.

[Killer Cyborg]

I always thought that their abilities of Ley Line drift and Ley Line Rejuvination would be somewhat frowned upon by their superiors or even other CS soldiers. In my opinion, the jury is still out.

It likely would be frowned upon, but if it turns out results (like helping close rifts) then they'd more than likely overlook it.
At least until the rifts were closed.

So now your saying a bunch of scholars are too stupid to realize that once their usefullness is outlived they'll be toasted?

No. Now you're putting words in my mouth...

[Toc Rat]

I'd like to say I am surprised that this thread is still going but I'm not. Any time the CS comes up on these boards the topics is bound to keep going and going...

[Toc Rat]

They are the bad guys not just because of their Nazi wanabe behaviours. They are also the badguys because KS wrote them that way. Just look in the CWC book, in there you will find a passage from KS explaining why and how they are evil.

Your statement violates the GM's law, that how the GM wants to use something in a book, even if it goes against what the author originally intended, is his right.

Huh?

[RainOfSteel]

well, The CS maybe evil etc, but you have to give them points for trying.

Points for evil?

What is this, a rewards program?

Come one, come all! Join Coalition Evil, the frequent evil acts program. You earn points in our program for performing acts of depraved evil . . . and can redeem them for things like toture manuals and equipment, and Hitler wind-up dolls!


. . . nah, the customer service department would never help the customers, so there would be a big problem in inherent in the program.

[RainOfSteel]

:nh:

Errr . . . it looks like a line of Skittles.

Taste the Rainbow!

[Toc Rat]

That's what I thought you meant but wasnt sure. I just got done dealing with DATs for a week straight in the field, my IQ isn't in the triple digits right now

I didn't think KS's comments were in any way vague though. He said it flot out that they are being lead by some very evil people.

On a different note, glad to hear you have seen the light and walked away from D20

[Zer0 Kay]

I always thought that their abilities of Ley Line drift and Ley Line Rejuvination would be somewhat frowned upon by their superiors or even other CS soldiers. In my opinion, the jury is still out.

It likely would be frowned upon, but if it turns out results (like helping close rifts) then they'd more than likely overlook it.
At least until the rifts were closed.

So now your saying a bunch of scholars are too stupid to realize that once their usefullness is outlived they'll be toasted?

No. Now you're putting words in my mouth...

Would you rather have me putting my foot there? Excuse me I should be saying the book says. Since they work for the CS in the book. However you say that they'd be overlooked until the rifts were closed. Which can be read as an entire group of scientist, who could choose to work somewhere else (so probably wouldn't just overlook that possibility), completely missed that "we hate magic users" fact.

[Zer0 Kay]

Before people start throwing things at me, I'd like to say that historically it's STABILITY humanity has always craved. Whether it was an Athenian democracy or this fictious empire of Prosek's, the average citizen generally doesn't care who's running the show so long as they can plan on getting a meal beyond today and raise their families in relative peace. Granted, there are people who still aren't satisifed with the way Prosek's running things, but the people in general are content.

Its not so much stability, but survival. People are animals, despite "not having instincts," the human race, as a whole, still has the survival instinct. Stability fulfills that, but if some form of anarchy were to do so, we would live in such. Humankind feels safer in stability as opposed to instability, example, would you live in a mansion that swayed, creaked and seemed like it would fall with each passing breeze or a shack that could stand up to an earthquake?

Humans still need that feeling that they will survive untill tomorrow. The CS fulfills that need, even though it does so in evil measures. They have a Machiavellian approach to survival, in that the ends justifies the means, and they do whatever it takes to assure that their followers make it in the end. You have to praise them for protecting those in their care, even if they send some to the slaughterhouse, it is so many more could prosper.

They may be evil, cruel and miguided, but they are the best chance of survival someone has in Rifts Earth.


Plus.....they are sexy.

Oh please female mages with those robes with the slits all the way up to their hips are sexier

[Mech-Viper Prime]

sure everybody could say the coalition is evil and kills harmless d-bees, but then again the coalition doesnt enlist demons to fight on their side of a war

[Zer0 Kay]

sure everybody could say the coalition is evil and kills harmless d-bees, but then again the coalition doesnt enlist demons to fight on their side of a war

Why would you have to summon any when they already run the city?

[Zer0 Kay]

I'm glad to be playing in an anti-necromancer campaign instead.

That include the hot ones with the robes slit up the leg to their hips? Just kidding

[Killer Cyborg]

Since they work for the CS in the book. However you say that they'd be overlooked until the rifts were closed. Which can be read as an entire group of scientist, who could choose to work somewhere else (so probably wouldn't just overlook that possibility), completely missed that "we hate magic users" fact.

Not really.
a) They most likely could NOT work anywhere else. The CS doesn't like defectors and they seem to be the only ones interested in taking a scientific look at ley lines anyway.
b) The Scientists themselves probably hate mages.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

sure everybody could say the coalition is evil and kills harmless d-bees, but then again the coalition doesnt enlist demons to fight on their side of a war

Why would you have to summon any when they already run the city?

hey just because you have the entire carebear and my little pony collection , doesnt mean you can call they demons

[Zer0 Kay]

Since they work for the CS in the book. However you say that they'd be overlooked until the rifts were closed. Which can be read as an entire group of scientist, who could choose to work somewhere else (so probably wouldn't just overlook that possibility), completely missed that "we hate magic users" fact.

Not really.
a) They most likely could NOT work anywhere else. The CS doesn't like defectors and they seem to be the only ones interested in taking a scientific look at ley lines anyway.
b) The Scientists themselves probably hate mages.

How ironic stupid scientists become pseudo-mages that will be slaughtered after they find out how to close Rifts and shut down leylines... There we go Splicers is Post Rifts a magic dead planet

[Zer0 Kay]

sure everybody could say the coalition is evil and kills harmless d-bees, but then again the coalition doesnt enlist demons to fight on their side of a war

Why would you have to summon any when they already run the city?

hey just because you have the entire carebear and my little pony collection , doesnt mean you can call they demons

?? What would owning deamons like the carebears and my little pony lead by their evil master Barney have to do with being able to call people, who use other people to conquer while having an apathetic view of those soldiers lives, demons?

[Zer0 Kay]

Since they work for the CS in the book. However you say that they'd be overlooked until the rifts were closed. Which can be read as an entire group of scientist, who could choose to work somewhere else (so probably wouldn't just overlook that possibility), completely missed that "we hate magic users" fact.

Not really.
a) They most likely could NOT work anywhere else. The CS doesn't like defectors and they seem to be the only ones interested in taking a scientific look at ley lines anyway.
b) The Scientists themselves probably hate mages.

Hmm defect, maybe get away or die or complete research and die... hard decision? I'm sure Lazlo would be interested in ways of controlling Rifts as would the True Atlantiens.

[Killer Cyborg]

Since they work for the CS in the book. However you say that they'd be overlooked until the rifts were closed. Which can be read as an entire group of scientist, who could choose to work somewhere else (so probably wouldn't just overlook that possibility), completely missed that "we hate magic users" fact.

Not really.
a) They most likely could NOT work anywhere else. The CS doesn't like defectors and they seem to be the only ones interested in taking a scientific look at ley lines anyway.
b) The Scientists themselves probably hate mages.

Hmm defect, maybe get away or die or complete research and die... hard decision? I'm sure Lazlo would be interested in ways of controlling Rifts as would the True Atlantiens.

Death would hardly be certain.
Besides, the research may not be completed in the scientist's lifetime.

Basically, it seems like you're deliberately not using your imagination for anything other than trying to reinforce the conclusion that you started with. Or trying to prolong this argument to up your post count.

[cornholioprime]

They are the bad guys not just because of their Nazi wanabe behaviours. They are also the badguys because KS wrote them that way. Just look in the CWC book, in there you will find a passage from KS explaining why and how they are evil.

Your statement violates the GM's law, that how the GM wants to use something in a book, even if it goes against what the author originally intended, is his right.

And besides, even in RUE, Kevin stresses that the CS was intended to be a shade of grey in the Rifts universe.

The reason I think people have such a vendetta against the CS is that it is a dictatorship, on American soil. Yet what many of my fellow Americans probably don't realize is, that despite what many of our politicians want us to believe, that humans don't naturally want to be free.

Before people start throwing things at me, I'd like to say that historically it's STABILITY humanity has always craved. Whether it was an Athenian democracy or this fictious empire of Prosek's, the average citizen generally doesn't care who's running the show so long as they can plan on getting a meal beyond today and raise their families in relative peace. Granted, there are people who still aren't satisifed with the way Prosek's running things, but the people in general are content.

And from a different angle, Prosek's a genius for how he plays on the people's fear of D-Bees and the supernatural. It seems so simple, submit to Prosek and his soldiers will keep all the bad demons, necromancers, vampires, bandits, etc. away.

I'm a Libertarian, and I also study History.

Believe me, I know. You're 100% correct.

I think that it was Herodotus (yeah, ancient Greek philosopher and ALSO a student of History) who said something along the lines of "Man does not really desire freedom; he is content to have a kind/just Master...."

[Zer0 Kay]

Since they work for the CS in the book. However you say that they'd be overlooked until the rifts were closed. Which can be read as an entire group of scientist, who could choose to work somewhere else (so probably wouldn't just overlook that possibility), completely missed that "we hate magic users" fact.

Not really.
a) They most likely could NOT work anywhere else. The CS doesn't like defectors and they seem to be the only ones interested in taking a scientific look at ley lines anyway.
b) The Scientists themselves probably hate mages.

Hmm defect, maybe get away or die or complete research and die... hard decision? I'm sure Lazlo would be interested in ways of controlling Rifts as would the True Atlantiens.

Death would hardly be certain.
Besides, the research may not be completed in the scientist's lifetime.

Basically, it seems like you're deliberately not using your imagination for anything other than trying to reinforce the conclusion that you started with. Or trying to prolong this argument to up your post count.

I do just fine on my post count responding to each post. Besides I care so little about that post count I haven't even noticed what it was now. Yeah whatever death not certain. "Hey the dog boys are picking up high levels of PPE in the lab."
"We're down here and... HOLY CRAP their floating!!!" WHAK (Alarm), gunfire, dead scientists.

OR

As soon as they've outlived their sanctioned existence there dead. Why, because they use magic.

Accuse me of not using imagination, if that were so I'd be playing like a real CS soldier.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Since they work for the CS in the book. However you say that they'd be overlooked until the rifts were closed. Which can be read as an entire group of scientist, who could choose to work somewhere else (so probably wouldn't just overlook that possibility), completely missed that "we hate magic users" fact.

Not really.
a) They most likely could NOT work anywhere else. The CS doesn't like defectors and they seem to be the only ones interested in taking a scientific look at ley lines anyway.
b) The Scientists themselves probably hate mages.

Hmm defect, maybe get away or die or complete research and die... hard decision? I'm sure Lazlo would be interested in ways of controlling Rifts as would the True Atlantiens.

Death would hardly be certain.
Besides, the research may not be completed in the scientist's lifetime.

Basically, it seems like you're deliberately not using your imagination for anything other than trying to reinforce the conclusion that you started with. Or trying to prolong this argument to up your post count.

I do just fine on my post count responding to each post. Besides I care so little about that post count I haven't even noticed what it was now. Yeah whatever death not certain. "Hey the dog boys are picking up high levels of PPE in the lab."
"We're down here and... HOLY CRAP their floating!!!" WHAK (Alarm), gunfire, dead scientists.

OR

As soon as they've outlived their sanctioned existence there dead. Why, because they use magic.

Accuse me of not using imagination, if that were so I'd be playing like a real CS soldier.

Zer0 Kay,
RCSG scientist have normal PPE and for the ley line Drifting and Rejuenation they have to be on a ley line to work you nit wit

[Zer0 Kay]

Since they work for the CS in the book. However you say that they'd be overlooked until the rifts were closed. Which can be read as an entire group of scientist, who could choose to work somewhere else (so probably wouldn't just overlook that possibility), completely missed that "we hate magic users" fact.

Not really.
a) They most likely could NOT work anywhere else. The CS doesn't like defectors and they seem to be the only ones interested in taking a scientific look at ley lines anyway.
b) The Scientists themselves probably hate mages.

Hmm defect, maybe get away or die or complete research and die... hard decision? I'm sure Lazlo would be interested in ways of controlling Rifts as would the True Atlantiens.

Death would hardly be certain.
Besides, the research may not be completed in the scientist's lifetime.

Basically, it seems like you're deliberately not using your imagination for anything other than trying to reinforce the conclusion that you started with. Or trying to prolong this argument to up your post count.

I do just fine on my post count responding to each post. Besides I care so little about that post count I haven't even noticed what it was now. Yeah whatever death not certain. "Hey the dog boys are picking up high levels of PPE in the lab."
"We're down here and... HOLY CRAP their floating!!!" WHAK (Alarm), gunfire, dead scientists.

OR

As soon as they've outlived their sanctioned existence there dead. Why, because they use magic.

Accuse me of not using imagination, if that were so I'd be playing like a real CS soldier.

Zer0 Kay,
RCSG scientist have normal PPE and for the ley line Drifting and Rejuenation they have to be on a ley line to work you nit wit

Hey like I'd know that. I try to avoid most CS books. back Fine then their guards go with them see them start to float and shoot them Or see them heal a would and figure it's demon possession and shoot.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Since they work for the CS in the book. However you say that they'd be overlooked until the rifts were closed. Which can be read as an entire group of scientist, who could choose to work somewhere else (so probably wouldn't just overlook that possibility), completely missed that "we hate magic users" fact.

Not really.
a) They most likely could NOT work anywhere else. The CS doesn't like defectors and they seem to be the only ones interested in taking a scientific look at ley lines anyway.
b) The Scientists themselves probably hate mages.

Hmm defect, maybe get away or die or complete research and die... hard decision? I'm sure Lazlo would be interested in ways of controlling Rifts as would the True Atlantiens.

Death would hardly be certain.
Besides, the research may not be completed in the scientist's lifetime.

Basically, it seems like you're deliberately not using your imagination for anything other than trying to reinforce the conclusion that you started with. Or trying to prolong this argument to up your post count.

I do just fine on my post count responding to each post. Besides I care so little about that post count I haven't even noticed what it was now. Yeah whatever death not certain. "Hey the dog boys are picking up high levels of PPE in the lab."
"We're down here and... HOLY CRAP their floating!!!" WHAK (Alarm), gunfire, dead scientists.

OR

As soon as they've outlived their sanctioned existence there dead. Why, because they use magic.

Accuse me of not using imagination, if that were so I'd be playing like a real CS soldier.

Zer0 Kay,
RCSG scientist have normal PPE and for the ley line Drifting and Rejuenation they have to be on a ley line to work you nit wit

Hey like I'd know that. I try to avoid most CS books. back Fine then their guards go with them see them start to float and shoot them Or see them heal a would and figure it's demon possession and shoot.

guess i should call you an fool, moron, stupid, or something along them lines, but i'll be nice and just shake my head to your post friend

[Zer0 Kay]

Since they work for the CS in the book. However you say that they'd be overlooked until the rifts were closed. Which can be read as an entire group of scientist, who could choose to work somewhere else (so probably wouldn't just overlook that possibility), completely missed that "we hate magic users" fact.

Not really.
a) They most likely could NOT work anywhere else. The CS doesn't like defectors and they seem to be the only ones interested in taking a scientific look at ley lines anyway.
b) The Scientists themselves probably hate mages.

Hmm defect, maybe get away or die or complete research and die... hard decision? I'm sure Lazlo would be interested in ways of controlling Rifts as would the True Atlantiens.

Death would hardly be certain.
Besides, the research may not be completed in the scientist's lifetime.

Basically, it seems like you're deliberately not using your imagination for anything other than trying to reinforce the conclusion that you started with. Or trying to prolong this argument to up your post count.

I do just fine on my post count responding to each post. Besides I care so little about that post count I haven't even noticed what it was now. Yeah whatever death not certain. "Hey the dog boys are picking up high levels of PPE in the lab."
"We're down here and... HOLY CRAP their floating!!!" WHAK (Alarm), gunfire, dead scientists.

OR

As soon as they've outlived their sanctioned existence there dead. Why, because they use magic.

Accuse me of not using imagination, if that were so I'd be playing like a real CS soldier.

Zer0 Kay,
RCSG scientist have normal PPE and for the ley line Drifting and Rejuenation they have to be on a ley line to work you nit wit

Hey like I'd know that. I try to avoid most CS books. back Fine then their guards go with them see them start to float and shoot them Or see them heal a would and figure it's demon possession and shoot.

guess i should call you an fool, moron, stupid, or something along them lines, but i'll be nice and just shake my head to your post friend

Why a fool because I avoid the CS? There are bigger baddies and the CS is easier to eliminate/change mind than the Vampires, The Doglike Aliens in SA2, The Evil El Dorado's in SA1, The four horsemen, Splynncryth, Gargoyles or the many other SN evils on Earth. Simply put kill all the really bad stuff first, while the CS "protects" NA then take care of the CS. OR are you talking about the guards shooting the floating scientists.

[Zer0 Kay]

Since they work for the CS in the book. However you say that they'd be overlooked until the rifts were closed. Which can be read as an entire group of scientist, who could choose to work somewhere else (so probably wouldn't just overlook that possibility), completely missed that "we hate magic users" fact.

Not really.
a) They most likely could NOT work anywhere else. The CS doesn't like defectors and they seem to be the only ones interested in taking a scientific look at ley lines anyway.
b) The Scientists themselves probably hate mages.

Hmm defect, maybe get away or die or complete research and die... hard decision? I'm sure Lazlo would be interested in ways of controlling Rifts as would the True Atlantiens.

Death would hardly be certain.
Besides, the research may not be completed in the scientist's lifetime.

Basically, it seems like you're deliberately not using your imagination for anything other than trying to reinforce the conclusion that you started with. Or trying to prolong this argument to up your post count.

I do just fine on my post count responding to each post. Besides I care so little about that post count I haven't even noticed what it was now. Yeah whatever death not certain. "Hey the dog boys are picking up high levels of PPE in the lab."
"We're down here and... HOLY CRAP their floating!!!" WHAK (Alarm), gunfire, dead scientists.

OR

As soon as they've outlived their sanctioned existence there dead. Why, because they use magic.

Accuse me of not using imagination, if that were so I'd be playing like a real CS soldier.

Zer0 Kay,
RCSG scientist have normal PPE and for the ley line Drifting and Rejuenation they have to be on a ley line to work you nit wit

Hey like I'd know that. I try to avoid most CS books. back Fine then their guards go with them see them start to float and shoot them Or see them heal a would and figure it's demon possession and shoot.

guess i should call you an fool, moron, stupid, or something along them lines, but i'll be nice and just shake my head to your post friend

Oh and thanks for not calling me that in public, you can always PM it to me

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Since they work for the CS in the book. However you say that they'd be overlooked until the rifts were closed. Which can be read as an entire group of scientist, who could choose to work somewhere else (so probably wouldn't just overlook that possibility), completely missed that "we hate magic users" fact.

Not really.
a) They most likely could NOT work anywhere else. The CS doesn't like defectors and they seem to be the only ones interested in taking a scientific look at ley lines anyway.
b) The Scientists themselves probably hate mages.

Hmm defect, maybe get away or die or complete research and die... hard decision? I'm sure Lazlo would be interested in ways of controlling Rifts as would the True Atlantiens.

Death would hardly be certain.
Besides, the research may not be completed in the scientist's lifetime.

Basically, it seems like you're deliberately not using your imagination for anything other than trying to reinforce the conclusion that you started with. Or trying to prolong this argument to up your post count.

I do just fine on my post count responding to each post. Besides I care so little about that post count I haven't even noticed what it was now. Yeah whatever death not certain. "Hey the dog boys are picking up high levels of PPE in the lab."
"We're down here and... HOLY CRAP their floating!!!" WHAK (Alarm), gunfire, dead scientists.

OR

As soon as they've outlived their sanctioned existence there dead. Why, because they use magic.

Accuse me of not using imagination, if that were so I'd be playing like a real CS soldier.

Zer0 Kay,
RCSG scientist have normal PPE and for the ley line Drifting and Rejuenation they have to be on a ley line to work you nit wit

Hey like I'd know that. I try to avoid most CS books. back Fine then their guards go with them see them start to float and shoot them Or see them heal a would and figure it's demon possession and shoot.

guess i should call you an fool, moron, stupid, or something along them lines, but i'll be nice and just shake my head to your post friend

Why a fool because I avoid the CS? There are bigger baddies and the CS is easier to eliminate/change mind than the Vampires, The Doglike Aliens in SA2, The Evil El Dorado's in SA1, The four horsemen, Splynncryth, Gargoyles or the many other SN evils on Earth. Simply put kill all the really bad stuff first, while the CS "protects" NA then take care of the CS. OR are you talking about the guards shooting the floating scientists.

yes

[Zer0 Kay]

Since they work for the CS in the book. However you say that they'd be overlooked until the rifts were closed. Which can be read as an entire group of scientist, who could choose to work somewhere else (so probably wouldn't just overlook that possibility), completely missed that "we hate magic users" fact.

Not really.
a) They most likely could NOT work anywhere else. The CS doesn't like defectors and they seem to be the only ones interested in taking a scientific look at ley lines anyway.
b) The Scientists themselves probably hate mages.

Hmm defect, maybe get away or die or complete research and die... hard decision? I'm sure Lazlo would be interested in ways of controlling Rifts as would the True Atlantiens.

Death would hardly be certain.
Besides, the research may not be completed in the scientist's lifetime.

Basically, it seems like you're deliberately not using your imagination for anything other than trying to reinforce the conclusion that you started with. Or trying to prolong this argument to up your post count.

I do just fine on my post count responding to each post. Besides I care so little about that post count I haven't even noticed what it was now. Yeah whatever death not certain. "Hey the dog boys are picking up high levels of PPE in the lab."
"We're down here and... HOLY CRAP their floating!!!" WHAK (Alarm), gunfire, dead scientists.

OR

As soon as they've outlived their sanctioned existence there dead. Why, because they use magic.

Accuse me of not using imagination, if that were so I'd be playing like a real CS soldier.

Zer0 Kay,
RCSG scientist have normal PPE and for the ley line Drifting and Rejuenation they have to be on a ley line to work you nit wit

Hey like I'd know that. I try to avoid most CS books. back Fine then their guards go with them see them start to float and shoot them Or see them heal a would and figure it's demon possession and shoot.

guess i should call you an fool, moron, stupid, or something along them lines, but i'll be nice and just shake my head to your post friend

Why a fool because I avoid the CS? There are bigger baddies and the CS is easier to eliminate/change mind than the Vampires, The Doglike Aliens in SA2, The Evil El Dorado's in SA1, The four horsemen, Splynncryth, Gargoyles or the many other SN evils on Earth. Simply put kill all the really bad stuff first, while the CS "protects" NA then take care of the CS. OR are you talking about the guards shooting the floating scientists.

yes

Yes what? Your not Doom 3.x.x

[Zer0 Kay]

No

And neither are you

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Since they work for the CS in the book. However you say that they'd be overlooked until the rifts were closed. Which can be read as an entire group of scientist, who could choose to work somewhere else (so probably wouldn't just overlook that possibility), completely missed that "we hate magic users" fact.

Not really.
a) They most likely could NOT work anywhere else. The CS doesn't like defectors and they seem to be the only ones interested in taking a scientific look at ley lines anyway.
b) The Scientists themselves probably hate mages.

Hmm defect, maybe get away or die or complete research and die... hard decision? I'm sure Lazlo would be interested in ways of controlling Rifts as would the True Atlantiens.

Death would hardly be certain.
Besides, the research may not be completed in the scientist's lifetime.

Basically, it seems like you're deliberately not using your imagination for anything other than trying to reinforce the conclusion that you started with. Or trying to prolong this argument to up your post count.

I do just fine on my post count responding to each post. Besides I care so little about that post count I haven't even noticed what it was now. Yeah whatever death not certain. "Hey the dog boys are picking up high levels of PPE in the lab."
"We're down here and... HOLY CRAP their floating!!!" WHAK (Alarm), gunfire, dead scientists.

OR

As soon as they've outlived their sanctioned existence there dead. Why, because they use magic.

Accuse me of not using imagination, if that were so I'd be playing like a real CS soldier.

Zer0 Kay,
RCSG scientist have normal PPE and for the ley line Drifting and Rejuenation they have to be on a ley line to work you nit wit

Hey like I'd know that. I try to avoid most CS books. back Fine then their guards go with them see them start to float and shoot them Or see them heal a would and figure it's demon possession and shoot.

guess i should call you an fool, moron, stupid, or something along them lines, but i'll be nice and just shake my head to your post friend

Why a fool because I avoid the CS? There are bigger baddies and the CS is easier to eliminate/change mind than the Vampires, The Doglike Aliens in SA2, The Evil El Dorado's in SA1, The four horsemen, Splynncryth, Gargoyles or the many other SN evils on Earth. Simply put kill all the really bad stuff first, while the CS "protects" NA then take care of the CS. OR are you talking about the guards shooting the floating scientists.

yes

Yes what? Your not Doom 3.x.x

true i'm better then him

[Zer0 Kay]

Since they work for the CS in the book. However you say that they'd be overlooked until the rifts were closed. Which can be read as an entire group of scientist, who could choose to work somewhere else (so probably wouldn't just overlook that possibility), completely missed that "we hate magic users" fact.

Not really.
a) They most likely could NOT work anywhere else. The CS doesn't like defectors and they seem to be the only ones interested in taking a scientific look at ley lines anyway.
b) The Scientists themselves probably hate mages.

Hmm defect, maybe get away or die or complete research and die... hard decision? I'm sure Lazlo would be interested in ways of controlling Rifts as would the True Atlantiens.

Death would hardly be certain.
Besides, the research may not be completed in the scientist's lifetime.

Basically, it seems like you're deliberately not using your imagination for anything other than trying to reinforce the conclusion that you started with. Or trying to prolong this argument to up your post count.

I do just fine on my post count responding to each post. Besides I care so little about that post count I haven't even noticed what it was now. Yeah whatever death not certain. "Hey the dog boys are picking up high levels of PPE in the lab."
"We're down here and... HOLY CRAP their floating!!!" WHAK (Alarm), gunfire, dead scientists.

OR

As soon as they've outlived their sanctioned existence there dead. Why, because they use magic.

Accuse me of not using imagination, if that were so I'd be playing like a real CS soldier.

Zer0 Kay,
RCSG scientist have normal PPE and for the ley line Drifting and Rejuenation they have to be on a ley line to work you nit wit

Hey like I'd know that. I try to avoid most CS books. back Fine then their guards go with them see them start to float and shoot them Or see them heal a would and figure it's demon possession and shoot.

guess i should call you an fool, moron, stupid, or something along them lines, but i'll be nice and just shake my head to your post friend

Why a fool because I avoid the CS? There are bigger baddies and the CS is easier to eliminate/change mind than the Vampires, The Doglike Aliens in SA2, The Evil El Dorado's in SA1, The four horsemen, Splynncryth, Gargoyles or the many other SN evils on Earth. Simply put kill all the really bad stuff first, while the CS "protects" NA then take care of the CS. OR are you talking about the guards shooting the floating scientists.

yes

Yes what? Your not Doom 3.x.x

true i'm better then him

Sounds like your ego is getting as large so Yes to what?

[Janus]

SO what would make them less of a villain? Accepting every one and everything. Me thinks that could be very harmful. NOt all demons and monsters are friendly not all are evil. I think that indivdual soldiers have to say well it is either him or me and in the Rifts world it is a very real possibility that if they err on the side well they may be good Mr. CS may be lunch. I think Kevin did a good job as painting these guys evil. However I think we over look the tendancy that when we go adventuring our PCs sometimes shoot first and ask questions never. Wher lies the difference? The PC lets people read?

One way of extremism is not a substitute for another. The CS should be more gray, if you will, then just black and white.

They cannot be more gray. Their armor is black. I do not think that the CS are evil mostly because they fight to uphold their belief system. I think they have very grounded fears. They take extreme measures, but then we are now in an extreme time period. It is a shame that Prosek is considered diabolical when paranoid seems to fit more. The CS veiws itself to be good and beleives itself to be fightig for humanity. This may be propaganda from the higher ups, but to the masses that are CS and who live in the CS this is what they stand for. This is what makes them excellent villains. They are only seeing things in the black and white of the world, there is no gray for them. Personally i thkn they just look cool. I have no particular leanings toward them one way or another. I just wanted to see what everyones reaction would be to see someone come out and sing their laurels. Not much, but really good interaction and debate. I am impressed.

Pardon my harsh "language" and response, but too damn bad. What they want, and what they do to get it, are two DIFFERENT things. You know, the old axiom of "the ends do not justify the means" and all that.

In the Real World, virtually EVERY Despot, Magalomaniac, and would-be tyrant thorughout History has thought that (s)he was either protecting against a percieved threat, gaining needed resources, or most insidously, believed that their System of doing things would make the world more or less perfect if only everyone in the whole world was forced to act the same way.

Hitler, Stalin, the Thugees, the Khmer Rouge, Chairman Mao, Reverend Jim Jones, and Torquemada ALL believed that what they were doing would change the world for the better. But they were all STILL evil.

Likewise in Game, a Mage that sacrifices a Child, or a Coalition Military Official giving the command to kill that selfsame Child are BOTH still committing evil acts, no matter how well they attempt to justify their actions to themselves or others.

As they say, the road to Hell is paved with good intentions...

Include in your list of people George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, etc etc Revolutionary War heroes.