UR: A roll of one always misses

[grandmaster z0b]

Is this new to Rifts?

A roll of one always misses regardless of bonuses.

I've always played a one as a critical miss/failure but I didn't think it was canon.

[Guest]

Yes, it's new to Rifts, it made it's first appearance in BTS2.

[finn69]

if its new then why does my second pringting of the original RMB say that a natural roll of 1-4 always misses regardless of bonus?

[Guest]

if its new then why does my second pringting of the original RMB say that a natural roll of 1-4 always misses regardless of bonus?

Editing error.

[grandmaster z0b]

if its new then why does my second pringting of the original RMB say that a natural roll of 1-4 always misses regardless of bonus?

Where does it say that? My fourth printing says

If the result is a four or less (counting bonuses), then the attacker misses.

[Guest]

if its new then why does my second pringting of the original RMB say that a natural roll of 1-4 always misses regardless of bonus?

Where does it say that? My fourth printing says

If the result is a four or less (counting bonuses), then the attacker misses.

That's also what my third printing states, however, I don't have my second printing here to check the validity of finn's statement.

[Killer Cyborg]

if its new then why does my second pringting of the original RMB say that a natural roll of 1-4 always misses regardless of bonus?

It doesn't.

[Marrowlight]

Ditto, 1-4 not being an auto-miss was one of the first house rules my group used...and that was back in 92/93.

[grandmaster z0b]

Ditto, 1-4 not being an auto-miss was one of the first house rules my group used...and that was back in 92/93.

Funny how your house rule was actually the way it was supposed to be played all along.
I also just noticed this

All ranged attacks: Requires a roll of 8 to strike (including WP and Sniping bonuses)

So most of the time a roll of 2,3 or 4 will miss.

[TechnoGothic]

p40 (A roll of 1, 2, 3, or 4 is an automatic miss.).. makes no mention of bonuses, unfortunately.



However, I've always played rolling 1 as a 'critical failure'..

same here.

"1" critical failure
2-4...even with bonuses misses

Its worked for us all this time.

[Dead Boy]

Is this new to Rifts?

A roll of one always misses regardless of bonuses.

I've always played a one as a critical miss/failure but I didn't think it was canon.

Hu... That is new! Not even my 7th pringing of the Rifts Main Book or 1st printing of the RGMG says that. Interesting.

What's even more interesting is that it does NOT say the same thing under the Ranged Combat section even though it does denoted the critical hit off a Natural 20. Could it be that this is only related to hand to hand melee?

[grandmaster z0b]

Is this new to Rifts?

A roll of one always misses regardless of bonuses.

I've always played a one as a critical miss/failure but I didn't think it was canon.

Hu... That is new! Not even my 7th pringing of the Rifts Main Book or 1st printing of the RGMG says that. Interesting.

What's even more interesting is that it does NOT say the same thing under the Ranged Combat section even though it does denoted the critical hit off a Natural 20. Could it be that this is only related to hand to hand melee?

Well as the new number to hit with ranged weaponry is 8, I don't think a roll of 1 would ever hit anyway, who's going to have +7?

[Mack]

How about 1-4 as a progressive series of effects. 4 just a miss, 3 a miss with a perctentage of another effect(insert here), 2 hits something along the similar line of sight with a percentage of hitting an innocent bystander or one of your own team mates(insert percentage here), and 1 you accidently hit/shot yourself.

That means that every 20 times a trained soldier pulls the trigger, he hits himself once. A bit extreme, don't you think?

[Zer0 Kay]

Guess they were tired of those players who can never miss because there first level bonus to strike with "modern" weapons is over 5. I think a called should miss if it's not above a natural 10.

We have a guy in our game who has a +11 at first level... he did have a +12 but then he switched from a SAMAS: Sidewinder to a Tech Warrior. From what I recall all to strike bonuses didn't count toward weapons unless it specifically said so. However he says that the to strike in PA combat counts toward it, and it is supported in the example of modern combat where it states where the combatant is getting the bonuses from. A question the Elite PA combat listed with the PA is that in addition to that found in the RMB or the R:UE or does it replace them?

[Zer0 Kay]

How about 1-4 as a progressive series of effects. 4 just a miss, 3 a miss with a perctentage of another effect(insert here), 2 hits something along the similar line of sight with a percentage of hitting an innocent bystander or one of your own team mates(insert percentage here), and 1 you accidently hit/shot yourself.

That means that every 20 times a trained soldier pulls the trigger, he hits himself once. A bit extreme, don't you think?

That would be but how about if he rolls a 1 re roll a 20 and that produces different effects?

[Zer0 Kay]

Is this new to Rifts?

A roll of one always misses regardless of bonuses.

I've always played a one as a critical miss/failure but I didn't think it was canon.

I've noticed many of my house rules have become "canonized" in R:UE.

Don't get too cocky it just means they made sense, not that your famous

[Rimmerdal]

1 would be always be miss.

If I (as the guy posting) rolled a 1 on strike roll to shoot a 9mm Automatic Pistol; I should get a good chance for critical miss because I have no WP Automatic pistol.

But I guess some thought of that...(too lazy to read the rest of the posts...)

[ghost2020]

We've always used a rolled 1-4 always misses. It works fine, there should always be a chance for a miss in combat.

[Guest]

Guess they were tired of those players who can never miss because there first level bonus to strike with "modern" weapons is over 5. I think a called should miss if it's not above a natural 10.

We have a guy in our game who has a +11 at first level... he did have a +12 but then he switched from a SAMAS: Sidewinder to a Tech Warrior. From what I recall all to strike bonuses didn't count toward weapons unless it specifically said so. However he says that the to strike in PA combat counts toward it, and it is supported in the example of modern combat where it states where the combatant is getting the bonuses from. A question the Elite PA combat listed with the PA is that in addition to that found in the RMB or the R:UE or does it replace them?

actualy the book say you need a roll of 12 or better to hit on a called shot

Not quite. What it says is to hit the specific target, you need a 12 or better, failure meaning if you still roll a normal successful hit, you hit the main body, unless the target is moving, in which case you need a 12 or better to hit at all.

[Jesterzzn]

Guess they were tired of those players who can never miss because there first level bonus to strike with "modern" weapons is over 5. I think a called should miss if it's not above a natural 10.

We have a guy in our game who has a +11 at first level... he did have a +12 but then he switched from a SAMAS: Sidewinder to a Tech Warrior. From what I recall all to strike bonuses didn't count toward weapons unless it specifically said so. However he says that the to strike in PA combat counts toward it, and it is supported in the example of modern combat where it states where the combatant is getting the bonuses from. A question the Elite PA combat listed with the PA is that in addition to that found in the RMB or the R:UE or does it replace them?

actualy the book say you need a roll of 12 or better to hit on a called shot

Not quite. What it says is to hit the specific target, you need a 12 or better, failure meaning if you still roll a normal successful hit, you hit the main body, unless the target is moving, in which case you need a 12 or better to hit at all.

I always house ruled you need a 19 to hit on a called shot on a moving target. 5 to hit + 7 for called shot or moving target +14 for called shot AND moving target.

[Braden Campbell]

if its new then why does my second pringting of the original RMB say that a natural roll of 1-4 always misses regardless of bonus?

Temporal anomaly?

[Guest]

Guess they were tired of those players who can never miss because there first level bonus to strike with "modern" weapons is over 5. I think a called should miss if it's not above a natural 10.

We have a guy in our game who has a +11 at first level... he did have a +12 but then he switched from a SAMAS: Sidewinder to a Tech Warrior. From what I recall all to strike bonuses didn't count toward weapons unless it specifically said so. However he says that the to strike in PA combat counts toward it, and it is supported in the example of modern combat where it states where the combatant is getting the bonuses from. A question the Elite PA combat listed with the PA is that in addition to that found in the RMB or the R:UE or does it replace them?

actualy the book say you need a roll of 12 or better to hit on a called shot

Not quite. What it says is to hit the specific target, you need a 12 or better, failure meaning if you still roll a normal successful hit, you hit the main body, unless the target is moving, in which case you need a 12 or better to hit at all.

Actually there is no set standard minimum for a called shot in its description. The minimum of 12 is more a "called shot attribute modifier" in the specific description for whatever it is you are shooting at that would be elsewhere in the books, which just happens to use minimum of 12 alot. If you go to page 361 of UR, second coloumn under Quick References and then under Called Shot, there is no preset standard of minimum of 12. It just says "takes three attacks; possible penalties for small targets". Which is more a generalization which then would imply that its possible that there could be different minimums other than 12. The other more comprehensive definition in the first column states the same thing.

For a more realistic situation lets say the target is moving, it is -1 strike plus -1 to strike per 50 mph beyond 20, and another -1 on top of all that if the target declares using evasive action.

So for an aimed(+2) called shot(no bonuses) of a target that is moving from 1mph up to 20mph(-1), and is evasive(-1) you have to roll....... a mimumum of 5 or more, +2(aimed)-1(1-20mph and not going faster than that)-1(evasiveness) would = 5 or more to hit the target using a Aimed Called Shot. BUT, if there is a modifier in the hit by location list, in which, usually comes with a *, then you would have to start at the minimum to strike, which happens to be minimum of natural 12. Then you go by all the other modifiers. Oh ya it would take 3 attacks to do it. 2attacks for a non-aimed called shot.

The mimimum of 12 is just an extra mod based on the description of the target, not the rule.

I was referring to the pre-Splicers era combat rules, where 12 was the target number for called shots. Luckily it still works that way in HU2, ATB2, and other games that have called shots prior to the changes to the ranged combat rules that appeared in Splicers (which I don't use).

[grandmaster z0b]

Where does Rue only say a 1 is a miss?

If you look at the first post it gives the page number RUE : page 346, under "miss". The point is not does a 1-4 with bonuses misses but that a roll of one with or without bonuses always misses. A critical miss that's new to Rifts.

On pg. 339 last sentence column 2. "A roll of 1-4 is always a miss; that's true in both hand to hand and long-range combat."

I don't think this is a bad rule and have been playing 1-4 is a miss since '90.
One day I put on some boxing gloves and realized 1-4 as a miss is quite realistic. You'd be surprised how many times a blow you thought you'd land easily ends up just short. That's my real-life experience in melee combat, and seeing as how my only experience in missile combat is paintball I can't really say how realistic it is for long-range attacks (Paintballs miss on a 1-15 ).
I think I'll stick with 1-4 as a miss, it keeps both the important NPCs and the PCs alive more often.

[demos606]

"Critical misses" are at least as old as Oct 2004 when both Splicers and BtS2 came out with them. I suspect the latest printing of the GMG has it as well. Besides, iirc, this has been in PF forever so it's not exactly new ground for Palladium.

[grandmaster z0b]

"Critical misses" are at least as old as Oct 2004 when both Splicers and BtS2 came out with them. I suspect the latest printing of the GMG has it as well. Besides, iirc, this has been in PF forever so it's not exactly new ground for Palladium.

It is new to Rifts, and I'm almost sure that the latest printing of the GMG doesn't have them.

[Thinyser]

if its new then why does my second pringting of the original RMB say that a natural roll of 1-4 always misses regardless of bonus?

It actually says "regardless of bonus"? Because i have not seen that in the older books anywhere...

[The Beast]

Last time I checked a natural die roll of 1 to 4 was an automatic miss on ranged weapons, and a natural die roll of 1 to 4 on hand to hand attacks misses only if whatever bonuses you may have didn't add up to 5 or higher. Someone's getting the combat rules mixed up, I think.

[grandmaster z0b]

Last time I checked a natural die roll of 1 to 4 was an automatic miss on ranged weapons, and a natural die roll of 1 to 4 on hand to hand attacks misses only if whatever bonuses you may have didn't add up to 5 or higher. Someone's getting the combat rules mixed up, I think.

I think your getting your combat rules mixed up. The original rules state quite clearly that a roll of 1-4 (including bonuses) is a miss, whether it's a ranged or hand2hand attack. This is the way it has always been.

RUE changes that so that a ranged attack needs an 8 or better and a 1 will always miss no matter what the bonus. Honestly I'm surpirsed the amount of people who have been playing a natural 1-4 always misses and thought it was canon.

[The Beast]

13th Printing, 2000


p35 (A roll of less then 4 [counting bonuses] always misses..)..

p40 (A roll of 1, 2, 3, or 4 is an automatic miss.).. makes no mention of bonuses, unfortunately.



However, I've always played rolling 1 as a 'critical failure'..

Same with my 4th printing. Also, page 35 = Hand to Hand section, page 40 = Modern Weapons section. Everyone I've known takes that to mean a natural roll.

[The Beast]

Is this new to Rifts?

A roll of one always misses regardless of bonuses.

I've always played a one as a critical miss/failure but I didn't think it was canon.

Hu... That is new! Not even my 7th pringing of the Rifts Main Book or 1st printing of the RGMG says that. Interesting.

What's even more interesting is that it does NOT say the same thing under the Ranged Combat section even though it does denoted the critical hit off a Natural 20. Could it be that this is only related to hand to hand melee?

Well as the new number to hit with ranged weaponry is 8, I don't think a roll of 1 would ever hit anyway, who's going to have +7?

A GB pilot with the appropriate skills can get up to....a +10 at first level with the boom gun on an aimed shot I believe if you do it right but I can't remember how.

WP Heavy Energy Weapon = +3.
Weapon Systems = +1.
Laser Targeting = +1.
Advanced Laser Targeting for the Boom Gun = +2.
Sniper = +2.
Close Proximity Bonus = +1.

This gives your GB pilot a +10 to strike.

[The Beast]

For a more realistic situation lets say the target is moving, it is -1 strike plus -1 to strike per 50 mph beyond 20, and another -1 on top of all that if the target declares using evasive action.

Actually hitting a moving target is -3, and one moving at 40mph or more is -6. Of course this is with conventional weapons, I'm not sure if that rule applies to energy weapons.

[Killer Cyborg]

For a more realistic situation lets say the target is moving, it is -1 strike plus -1 to strike per 50 mph beyond 20, and another -1 on top of all that if the target declares using evasive action.

Actually hitting a moving target is -3, and one moving at 40mph or more is -6. Of course this is with conventional weapons, I'm not sure if that rule applies to energy weapons.

Sol is citing the rules from RUE, although he got a slightly different interpretation from them than I did.
RUE, p. 361

[Killer Cyborg]

Last time I checked a natural die roll of 1 to 4 was an automatic miss on ranged weapons, and a natural die roll of 1 to 4 on hand to hand attacks misses only if whatever bonuses you may have didn't add up to 5 or higher. Someone's getting the combat rules mixed up, I think.

I think your getting your combat rules mixed up. The original rules state quite clearly that a roll of 1-4 (including bonuses) is a miss, whether it's a ranged or hand2hand attack. This is the way it has always been.

RUE changes that so that a ranged attack needs an 8 or better and a 1 will always miss no matter what the bonus. Honestly I'm surpirsed the amount of people who have been playing a natural 1-4 always misses and thought it was canon.

It always astounds me.