Rarity of gems on earth.

[RainOfSteel]

I think one of the major factors against crazy techno-wizard weapons with 100 karat stones is that it's very difficult to find a lot of these gems. (Read posting.php?mode=reply&t=46390 for more info) Most of this info is drawn from Wikipedia.

Kittenstomp,

<Psst. />

That link doesn't go anywhere.

EDIT-----
Ok, the link got fixed.

Admins/Mods, feel free to delete this post (I can't anymore, the delete option is gone).

[RainOfSteel]

This link may also be helpful: Stone Master Gem Powers, by Eric Cline.

[RainOfSteel]

Diamonds can only be found in Africa and Russia in large quantities with smaller quantities available in Canada and Brazil.

Diamonds may be found in the USA.

See: Crater of Diamonds.

[RainOfSteel]

Let us remember that Rifts Earth has been massively altered.

Current gemstone locations may not be applicable in PA Earth.

[RainOfSteel]

Ivory can only be found well...traditionally only in africa...

What about India?

[jedi078]

I would think that with gems being used as jewelry until the catacysm (at which time they could have become legal tender!) you could find just about any type of jem anywhere in the world.

Take for example Tanzanite which can only be mined in east Africa. This doesn't mean that you can't be buy Tanzanite in the U.S. or Europe, it just isn't found there naturally.

[Nekira Sudacne]

THIS IS RIFTS! TURN YOUR BRAIN OFF!

[Astral_Explorer]

Well rarity of gems really depends. Your not limited to gemstones just from earth. You have cities like the Atlantean one in South America where the streets REALLY are studded with gemstones.

You have places like Atlantis where I am sure some of those visiting use gems from their home worlds/dimensions to pay for goods.

Even Tolkeen, and most likely Lazlo, and places in the Federation of Magic that have access to other worlds might quite possibly offer a chance to travel to other worlds to gain gemstones.

Heck just one dimensional hop to a place like Phase World with tons of planets and space travel and you have the resources of many worlds which can be called upon.

While gemstones in the wild should be rare, there are other ways that political entities and individuals could aquire such things.

[Nekira Sudacne]

THIS IS RIFTS! TURN YOUR BRAIN OFF!

I'm the GM, I keep my brain on so that I can torment you poor fools.

allright then...


remember that only lists what jewels are native to Earth.

such jewels can exist in countless dimensions.

who knows how many have been influxed though interdimensioal trade?

[Dr. Doom III]

What about old pre-Rifts jewelry?

I can't find diamonds in the ground around here but I bet you I can find hundreds at the mall.

[Qev]

*shrugs* Just put together a good, high-tech vapor deposition setup, and you can synthesize gems as big as you want them.

[RainOfSteel]

The malls that are still standing and haven't been looted yet? I'm sure they're all over the place.

By PA 109, every standing mall in NA has probably been looted.

[RainOfSteel]

*shrugs* Just put together a good, high-tech vapor deposition setup, and you can synthesize gems as big as you want them.

That does not work for all gemstones.

Lapis Lazuli cannot be made that way, for instance.

EDIT-------------------
I would say that carat size requirements triple in TW items for artificial gems in order to produce the same effect.

If you accept my proposal for limiting the carat size that a TW can work with (TW Level = Max Carat Size), that will boot artificial gems right out of the ballpark for most cases.

[Dr. Doom III]

By PA 109, every standing mall in NA has probably been looted.

Which means there are a lot in circulation.

[DrBeau]

By PA 109, every standing mall in NA has probably been looted.

Who said anything about standing malls? If we are talking about diamonds...they aren't going to break because some cement fell on them.

[RockJock]

I always went with the adundance of Pre-Rifts jewelry. I found this shiny stone, now give me a recharge for my ion blaster in trade.

[RockJock]

Here is a list of common gemstones by state. Many things like amber and agate are very widespread, if not common.

Alabama: Quartz

Arizona: amber, amethyst, azurite, chrysocolla, fire agate, garnet, malachite, obsidian, peridot, turquise

Arkansas:amber, diamonds, all varieties of quartz.

California: tourmaline, benitoite, garnet, jade, morganite, topaz(mainly blue), kunzite

Colorado: quartz, topaz, amazonite, aquamarine, rhodochrosite.

Connecticut garnet.

Florida: moonstone.

Georgia: Quartz

Idaho: garnet, aquamarine, opal.

Kentucky: agate.

Lousiana: agate.

Maine :tourmaline, various micas, aquamarine, heliodor, morganite, amethyst.

Montana: sapphire, agate.

Nebraska: agate.

Nevada: torquise, opa, peridote, tourquise.

New Hampshire: Quartz.

New Mexico: Tourquise.

New York: garnet, tourmaline, moonstone.

North Carolina: diamonds, ruby, sapphire, emerald, hiddenite, spodumene.

Oregon: agate including Thunder Eggs, feldspar, opal.

South Carolina: amethyst.

South Dakota: agate.

Texas: topaz, amber, agate.

Utah: topaz.

Wisconsin: ruby.

Wyoming: jade.



This is by no means an exhaustive list. Somethings like the jade in CA is in only one or two locations like Jade Cove just north of San Simeon, and comes from my own experiences.

[Astral_Explorer]

Just hunt one they regenerate,

[DhAkael]

Let us remember that Rifts Earth has been massively altered.

Current gemstone locations may not be applicable in PA Earth.

This is true. The point I'm just trying to make is that making many TW devices will either require herculean trips across the globe, elementals or dimensional commerce.

Repeat after me "Earth warlocks are my friend!"

[Qev]

*shrugs* Just put together a good, high-tech vapor deposition setup, and you can synthesize gems as big as you want them.

Artificial gems cannot be used by Techno-Wizards. I don't have the book in front of me, but it says so in the new rules.

Somehow, I knew Palladium would throw in some arbitrary 'difference' between 'natural' and synthetic gems. Why does everyone always do that?

(yeah, yeah, I know... game balance)

[RainOfSteel]

*shrugs* Just put together a good, high-tech vapor deposition setup, and you can synthesize gems as big as you want them.

Artificial gems cannot be used by Techno-Wizards. I don't have the book in front of me, but it says so in the new rules.

Somehow, I knew Palladium would throw in some arbitrary 'difference' between 'natural' and synthetic gems. Why does everyone always do that?

(yeah, yeah, I know... game balance)

Mystically speaking, a gem created over millions of years has plenty of time to soak up and become attunted to magical energies.

Artificial gems were made yesterday, so they have no attunement.

I suppose some process could exist to make them so attuned, but it would probably be expensive and time consuming.

[Jesterzzn]

Just a thought but if our solar systems astroid belt contains millions of asteroids that are composed of almost 100% carbon, what do you think the odds that those asteroids were being mined during the golden age? I have my chips on that they were. It is estimated that one of those asteroids could contain more gem stones than the entire continent of Africa. And there are millions of them. This doesn't even take into account interdimensional trade.

[RainOfSteel]

A Songjuicer, who creates liquid PPE could in theory use said PPE to create a pure PPE crystal synthetically.

I read, "A Songjuicer, who creates liquid PPE," and my mind immediately wandered off thinking about a PPE Juicer powered by liquid PPE drugs. Woot!

[Jesterzzn]

A Songjuicer, who creates liquid PPE could in theory use said PPE to create a pure PPE crystal synthetically.

The "philosopher's stone" was thought to me made by ancient alchemist as a tool for channeling the bodies energys. It was said to be made of the pure human energy that is not male nor female. Or something like that.

[Qev]

*shrugs* Just put together a good, high-tech vapor deposition setup, and you can synthesize gems as big as you want them.

Artificial gems cannot be used by Techno-Wizards. I don't have the book in front of me, but it says so in the new rules.

Somehow, I knew Palladium would throw in some arbitrary 'difference' between 'natural' and synthetic gems. Why does everyone always do that?

(yeah, yeah, I know... game balance)

Mystically speaking, a gem created over millions of years has plenty of time to soak up and become attunted to magical energies.

Artificial gems were made yesterday, so they have no attunement.

I suppose some process could exist to make them so attuned, but it would probably be expensive and time consuming.

Well... I suppose it matters what the gems actually do in these magical artifacts. Are they acting as focii, or batteries, or power sources themselves?

Mmm... besides, you could always construct your vapour deposition lab on top of a major nexus point. That should solve the 'magical attunement' problem. Spontaneous rifting of random monsters into the facility is such a minor issue that it hardly bears mentioning...

[Gomen_Nagai]

an unscrupulous Alchemist/technowizard can simply harvest scales off Crystal dragons which work as ANY stone that the mage may need.

[grandmaster z0b]

I doubt people were looting diamonds when the Rifts opened up, far more likely to loot food, guns, ammunition, alcohol, medical equipment etc. I don't think any jewel would be very valuable at that stage.

But a hundred years later all of a sudden there's a new demand for jewels created by the TW industry. I can see Techno Wizards at Lazlo buying up jewels big time and driving the price back up to the current levels. It would also create the demand for trade routes from all over the megaverse, if anything there could be more jems in circulation than now.

[jedi078]

I doubt people were looting diamonds when the Rifts opened up, far more likely to loot food, guns, ammunition, alcohol, medical equipment etc. I don't think any jewel would be very valuable at that stage.

Fact is people would loot a jewelry store during an apocalyptic situation because the gems and precious metals found in the store would have more value as legal tender then paper money. Coin money might be worth something but that depends on how much sliver is found in the coins.

But a hundred years later all of a sudden there's a new demand for jewels created by the TW industry. I can see Techno Wizards at Lazlo buying up jewels big time and driving the price back up to the current levels. It would also create the demand for trade routes from all over the megaverse, if anything there could be more jems in circulation than now.

[RockJock]

Carbon and diamonds are not the same thing. You need high T and P to go along with it.

As far as we know most asteroids are not particularly carbon rich. Instead they average to 90% of more silicates, with 5-6% metal and a small percentage of carbon rich materials.

While carbon isn't hugely abundant as % compostion of the earth, it isn't rare by any means.

[Qev]

I shudder to think what a powerful mage in the Phase World setting might do with a neutron star. Theoretically, they may have an outer crust composed of diamond... not to mention, neutronium itself could be considered a peculiar type of 'crystal'.

[Jesterzzn]

Carbon and diamonds are not the same thing. You need high T and P to go along with it.

As far as we know most asteroids are not particularly carbon rich. Instead they average to 90% of more silicates, with 5-6% metal and a small percentage of carbon rich materials.

While carbon isn't hugely abundant as % compostion of the earth, it isn't rare by any means.

NASA disagrees with your percentages.

http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/text/asteroids.txt

The majority of asteroids fall into the following three
categories:

C-type (carbonaceous): Includes more than 75 percent
of known asteroids. Very dark with an albedo of 0.03-0.09.
Composition is thought to be similar to the Sun, depleted in
hydrogen, helium, and other volatiles. C-type asteroids
inhabit the main belt's outer regions.

· S-type (silicaceous): Accounts for about 17 percent
of known asteroids. Relatively bright with an albedo of
0.10-0.22. Composition is metallic iron mixed with iron- and
magnesium-silicates. S-type asteroids dominate the inner
asteroid belt.

· M-type (metallic): Includes many of the rest of the
known asteroids. Relatively bright with an albedo of 0.10-
0.18. Composition is apparently dominated by metallic iron.
M-type asteroids inhabit the main belt's middle region.

Also maybe you should read about these asteroids:
http://www.uwrf.edu/~wc01/PeridotAst.html
As they are almost completely made up of a certain semi precious stone. This article also talks about the required T and P you mentioned.

Also to throw one more piece on the pile, it appears that at least one research group has found evidence of diamond formation within meteorites and interstellar dust most likely from asteroid collisions. Here is the abstract.

[Joey Jo Jo Jr]

Just a thought but if our solar systems astroid belt contains millions of asteroids that are composed of almost 100% carbon, what do you think the odds that those asteroids were being mined during the golden age? I have my chips on that they were. It is estimated that one of those asteroids could contain more gem stones than the entire continent of Africa. And there are millions of them. This doesn't even take into account interdimensional trade.

Good call, the resources available there would have been easily accessable with the level of technology around during the Golden Age. They were able to build self sufficent orbital habitats, and it would be far easier and cheaper to grab asteroids as building materials than to send it up from the planet. Gems and valuable metals would have been an added bonus

[RainOfSteel]

I agree with Kittenstomp. Either a TW player is going to do a lot of traveling or the character needs to spend time in a major magical community that has interdimensional trade. Tolkeen, Lazlo, New Lazlo & Kingsdale all jump to mind. Oh and the Federation of Magic or Atlantis if you are so inclined.

The rules require only that you accumulate multiple 1 carat gems. 1 carat gems of high quality are far more common than even 5 or 10 carat stones.

Also, as MercTown has shown us, there are globe-trotting merchants who can acquire anything and who can travel across the globe multiple times per year in effective safety.

A TW won't be travelling to acquire gems, he'll be hitting up the local gem merchant, and possibly an entire gem guild.

[Thinyser]

Ivory can only be found well...traditionally only in africa...

What about India?

there too
also in the tundra of russia (fossil mamoth tusks)
and anywehre that walruss live (their tusks are ivory too)

[Jesterzzn]

Ivory can only be found well...traditionally only in africa...

What about India?

there too
also in the tundra of russia (fossil mamoth tusks)
and anywehre that walruss live (their tusks are ivory too)

I didn't think you could get ivory from fossils.

[Thinyser]

Ivory can only be found well...traditionally only in africa...

What about India?

there too
also in the tundra of russia (fossil mamoth tusks)
and anywehre that walruss live (their tusks are ivory too)

I didn't think you could get ivory from fossils.

well they dig them out of the permafrost all the time now...its one of the largest sources of legal ivory nowadays

[Toc Rat]

THIS IS RIFTS! TURN YOUR BRAIN OFF!

Sound (if sad) advice...

[Toc Rat]

*shrugs* Just put together a good, high-tech vapor deposition setup, and you can synthesize gems as big as you want them.

Artificial gems cannot be used by Techno-Wizards. I don't have the book in front of me, but it says so in the new rules.

It said so in the old rules too.

To counter that in my games it is possible to use man made gems. However they must be formed on a ley-line or ley-line nexus. The "science" behind that rule is that the only difference between man made gems and ones that came from the Earth's soil is that the natural gems had time to absorb the ambient PPE energy surronding them during their formation. Thus is you were to create gems on or near such a source of PPE, the resulting gem will havethe same intrinsic properties as a natural gem for purposes of TW item creation.

[cornholioprime]

What about old pre-Rifts jewelry?

I can't find diamonds in the ground around here but I bet you I can find hundreds at the mall.

The malls that are still standing and haven't been looted yet? I'm sure they're all over the place.

if they've been looted, those gems are in circulation in that area, or at least on the same continent for the most part.

The addition of ALIEN gems is something I'd start picking my GMs brain with if I played a TW.. heck, I'm the GM right now and I may just start working on that now

(pick.. pick.. ow) oh no.. not them again.

If you find a Green Ring on the hand of a dead Alien with a Lantern sitting beside it, I'll pay you Top Dollar for it (as in, One Dollar, Tops)!!!!

[shiivster01]

in regards to 'man made' gems - personally i have a problem with anyone saying "i create 10K worth of diamonds. so i have my *insert item/weapon here*"

.. uhh, part of creating something, means that you DON'T have the ability to do that just now, BUT after its made the hard way, then maybe you might be able to mass-produce a much inferior copy by using man made gems for a 1/10 of the damage and duration than the prototype [okay .. maybe the ratio for the damage/duration is off, but you get the idea]

natural is better, due to the fact it has NEVER been tampered with .. where as man-made ones have been handled, tampered and overall twisted and warped into being something they never were meant to be. end result being, a much inferior quality gemstone.

now a TW may or may not have the 'gemology' or the geography skill to find out where the gems are naturally located, but should a bunch of gems fall into [lets say a bunch of mud a couple of years ago] .. the gems wont be all pretty and shiney. they're gonna be grungy and possibly passed over by most adventurers.

been in plenty of games where no one has ever checked the ground for possible treasures. but then again, most people never go out looking for the gems in the first place

*shrugs* but thats my take on it, up to you how you deal with it, if at all.