paired firearms
Moderators: Immortals, Supreme Beings, Old Ones
- jade von delioch
- Dungeon Crawler
- Posts: 366
- Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 3:08 pm
- Location: portland, or
- Contact:
paired firearms
what book cantains the w.p. paired firearms?
member of-Our Lady of the Boundless Ammo
D20 is the pollution of the game industry.. do not buy into the pollutant, buy the cool rich taste of palladium.
D20 is the pollution of the game industry.. do not buy into the pollutant, buy the cool rich taste of palladium.
- maasenstodt
- Adventurer
- Posts: 412
- Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 11:52 pm
- Location: The Gateway City
- jade von delioch
- Dungeon Crawler
- Posts: 366
- Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 3:08 pm
- Location: portland, or
- Contact:
- jade von delioch
- Dungeon Crawler
- Posts: 366
- Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 3:08 pm
- Location: portland, or
- Contact:
- maasenstodt
- Adventurer
- Posts: 412
- Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 11:52 pm
- Location: The Gateway City
jade von delioch wrote:whats the rules on that...?
Off the top of my head, one can wield two one-handed firearms without penalty. There's a penalty for rifles and the like (-6 to strike, I think?), and machineguns, rocket launchers, etc. can't be used paired at all. In other words, it works pretty much like one would expect.
- dark brandon
- Knight
- Posts: 4527
- Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 10:20 pm
- Comment: I want you more when you're afraid of me.
- Location: Louisville, KY
jade von delioch wrote:its not in the new west book, i just checked...
all thats in there is bolas, whip and sharpshooting
I could be wrong, but I don't think any book has it. It's a special OCC ability.
"We're trapped in the belly of this horrible machine And the machine is bleeding to death The sun has fallen down And the billboards are all leering And the flags are all dead at the top of their poles ...I open up my wallet And it's full of blood "~~Godspeed you black emperor.
Dark Brandon wrote:jade von delioch wrote:its not in the new west book, i just checked...
all thats in there is bolas, whip and sharpshooting
I could be wrong, but I don't think any book has it. It's a special OCC ability.
It can't be taken as a skill, it's a specific O.C.C. ability. Only certain classes can attain it. Yes, you can duel wield your pistols without the rule, but i'd cut all shooting bonuses, charge you two melee attacks, and make you roll a strike twice, one for each gun.
I recently tried shooting duel pistols. The safest place for a person to be when I did that was within my aim. That's how difficult it is.
- Nekira Sudacne
- Monk
- Posts: 15569
- Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 7:22 pm
- Comment: The Munchkin Fairy
- Location: 2nd Degree Black Belt of Post Fu
- Contact:
Re: paired firearms
jade von delioch wrote:what book cantains the w.p. paired firearms?
it's not a WP, it's an OCC ability possessed by a few classes and still fewer others can buy it as an extra skill, but only if they say they can specifically.
Sometimes, you're like a beacon of light in the darkness, giving me some hope for humankind. ~ Killer Cyborg
You can have something done good, fast and cheap. If you want it done good and fast, it's not going to be cheap. If you want it done fast and cheap it won't be good. If you want something done good and cheap it won't be done fast. ~ Dark Brandon
You can have something done good, fast and cheap. If you want it done good and fast, it's not going to be cheap. If you want it done fast and cheap it won't be good. If you want something done good and cheap it won't be done fast. ~ Dark Brandon
- maasenstodt
- Adventurer
- Posts: 412
- Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 11:52 pm
- Location: The Gateway City
Res Sin Kai wrote:It can't be taken as a skill, it's a specific O.C.C. ability. Only certain classes can attain it. Yes, you can duel wield your pistols without the rule, but i'd cut all shooting bonuses, charge you two melee attacks, and make you roll a strike twice, one for each gun.
I recently tried shooting duel pistols. The safest place for a person to be when I did that was within my aim. That's how difficult it is.
That being said, characters proficiently wielding a pair of automatic pistols or SMGs are pretty damn cool. Realistic or not, if you're wanting a more cinematic game (which is what Kevin seems to be gearing Rifts towards nowadays), then I'd say let players take it as a skill if they want it and it fits their character.
If balance is an issue, you could always limit it to martial-oriented types and/or require two skill choices to pick it. Regardless, given the confused state of the Palladium ruleset, I wouldn't let trivialities rule your game.
- dark brandon
- Knight
- Posts: 4527
- Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 10:20 pm
- Comment: I want you more when you're afraid of me.
- Location: Louisville, KY
maasenstodt wrote:That being said, characters proficiently wielding a pair of automatic pistols or SMGs are pretty damn cool. Realistic or not, if you're wanting a more cinematic game (which is what Kevin seems to be gearing Rifts towards nowadays), then I'd say let players take it as a skill if they want it and it fits their character.
Correct. As difficult as it would be IRL, this isn't RL we're talking about. As a techniqual answer, no, PC's may not have dual pistols unless they have a specific OCC.
The tech answer out of the way, personally, I have and would allow someone to take it at the cost of 4 skills. Remember, Most OCC's that do have dual pistols have very very small skill selections. So to keep it fair to those OCC's who only rely on those abilities (Like gun slingers), with their weak skill selection, I"d make it costly to obtain.
Right now I go with 4. W.P. Pistol for left hand, W.P. Pistol for Right, W.P. Paired modern for left hand, W.P. paired modern for right hand.
"We're trapped in the belly of this horrible machine And the machine is bleeding to death The sun has fallen down And the billboards are all leering And the flags are all dead at the top of their poles ...I open up my wallet And it's full of blood "~~Godspeed you black emperor.
- Kalinda
- Champion
- Posts: 2105
- Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 1:32 pm
- Location: Behind Sentinel, just in case...
In canon using firearms as paired weapons is a class ability for a limited number of OCCs.
That having been said, I allow it as a WP for Men-at-Arms type characters at the cost of one skill, other OCCs must spend two slots to get it. The character must still buy the WP for the gun they wish to use, and paired weapons can only be used for guns that can normally be wielded one handed. In the alterative if a character has the special ability 'ambidextrous' they can use any one handed weapon paired, including guns.
That having been said, I allow it as a WP for Men-at-Arms type characters at the cost of one skill, other OCCs must spend two slots to get it. The character must still buy the WP for the gun they wish to use, and paired weapons can only be used for guns that can normally be wielded one handed. In the alterative if a character has the special ability 'ambidextrous' they can use any one handed weapon paired, including guns.
Personally, I think that we have a duty as role-players to try to anchor each other to reality a bit. To keep other gamers from being complete freaks and weirdos, or even psychopaths, if we can. Killer Cyborg
283 geek points. 42 McGeekpoints.
50 Smartass Points! Slag.
60 DaDa points.
283 geek points. 42 McGeekpoints.
50 Smartass Points! Slag.
60 DaDa points.
- dark brandon
- Knight
- Posts: 4527
- Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 10:20 pm
- Comment: I want you more when you're afraid of me.
- Location: Louisville, KY
Gomen_Nagai wrote:technically, it's not just an OCC ability, Any Character who can Select WP Sharpshooting can select dual pistoling as their Sharpshooting Trick, as there are six of them..
It's NOT just a specific ability. the OCC ability gives Extra attacks and bonus initiative.
what sharpshooting ability is that?
"We're trapped in the belly of this horrible machine And the machine is bleeding to death The sun has fallen down And the billboards are all leering And the flags are all dead at the top of their poles ...I open up my wallet And it's full of blood "~~Godspeed you black emperor.
- jedi078
- Champion
- Posts: 2360
- Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 8:21 pm
- Comment: The next group of player characters to surrender in one of my games are going to play Russian roulette.
- Location: Salem, Oregon
I have recently started using parried weapons to encompass all weapons.
For example HTH: Commando and Assassin both give a character parried weapons at 1st level.
I do apply penalties when dual wielding pistols (and SMGs if your PS is high enough, or you’re in Power Armor)
-2 to strike with your dominant hand and -3 with your non-dominant hand (ambidextrous persons get -1 with both hands).
For example HTH: Commando and Assassin both give a character parried weapons at 1st level.
I do apply penalties when dual wielding pistols (and SMGs if your PS is high enough, or you’re in Power Armor)
-2 to strike with your dominant hand and -3 with your non-dominant hand (ambidextrous persons get -1 with both hands).
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But, the Marines don't have that problem".
Ronald Reagan, President of the United States; 1985
Ronald Reagan, President of the United States; 1985
- Killer Cyborg
- Priest
- Posts: 28123
- Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 2:01 am
- Comment: "Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
- Location: In the ocean, punching oncoming waves
- Contact:
newbee2004 wrote:No I mean under WP paired weapons in RUE has firearms in it too.
Well, sort of...
Actually, it says (p. 327) "WP Paired Weapons is designed for melee weapons like knives, swords, clubs, ets., not guns."
But it does list the penalties for the average person trying to fire paired guns: -2 to strike with the regular hand, and -6 with the off-hand.
I like this ruling because realistically anybody can try to fire paired guns... it's just harder to aim.
Annual Best Poster of the Year Awards (2012)
"Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell
Check out my Author Page on Amazon!
"Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell
Check out my Author Page on Amazon!
- jedi078
- Champion
- Posts: 2360
- Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 8:21 pm
- Comment: The next group of player characters to surrender in one of my games are going to play Russian roulette.
- Location: Salem, Oregon
Killer Cyborg wrote:
I like this ruling because realistically anybody can try to fire paired guns... it's just harder to aim.
and with enough time on the range firing two weapons at the same time/target(s) they can become profcient at doing so.
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But, the Marines don't have that problem".
Ronald Reagan, President of the United States; 1985
Ronald Reagan, President of the United States; 1985
- grandmaster z0b
- Champion
- Posts: 3005
- Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 1:44 am
- Location: Tech-City of Melbourne
- Contact:
Mack wrote:Gomen_Nagai wrote:Any Character who can Select WP Sharpshooting can select dual pistoling as their Sharpshooting Trick, as there are six of them..
Please explain that.
One of the "tricks" you can choose when you take W.P.: Sharpshooting is the use of two firearms simultaneously. However, there are restrictions on whom can take the W.P. in the first place.
Fnord
Cool...I've been FAQed... atleast twice!
.sig count to date: 2
"May your day be as eventful as you wish, and may your life only hurt as much as it has to." - Me...
Normality is Relative, Sanity is Conceptual, and I am neither.
Cool...I've been FAQed... atleast twice!
.sig count to date: 2
"May your day be as eventful as you wish, and may your life only hurt as much as it has to." - Me...
Normality is Relative, Sanity is Conceptual, and I am neither.
- dark brandon
- Knight
- Posts: 4527
- Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 10:20 pm
- Comment: I want you more when you're afraid of me.
- Location: Louisville, KY
Gomen_Nagai wrote:the sharp shooter trick that lets you fight with 2 guns, Duh. The power gets turned into a full occ ability in a later book.
Sharpshooting makes no mention of of that. The six abilities are
fire a two handed weapon with one hand without penalty
shoot over shoulder
shoot while riding
Shoot while on head
dodge and shoot
and ricochet shot.
and with enough time on the range firing two weapons at the same time/target(s) they can become profcient at doing so.
Correct. But you will always have those penalties, but getting higher in level with a higher bonus to strike will help offset those penalties.
As it stands, only a few OCC's can do it effectivly without penalties.
"We're trapped in the belly of this horrible machine And the machine is bleeding to death The sun has fallen down And the billboards are all leering And the flags are all dead at the top of their poles ...I open up my wallet And it's full of blood "~~Godspeed you black emperor.
- dark brandon
- Knight
- Posts: 4527
- Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 10:20 pm
- Comment: I want you more when you're afraid of me.
- Location: Louisville, KY
Borast wrote:Mack wrote:Gomen_Nagai wrote:Any Character who can Select WP Sharpshooting can select dual pistoling as their Sharpshooting Trick, as there are six of them..
Please explain that.
One of the "tricks" you can choose when you take W.P.: Sharpshooting is the use of two firearms simultaneously. However, there are restrictions on whom can take the W.P. in the first place.
I do not believe sharpshooting has that ability.
"We're trapped in the belly of this horrible machine And the machine is bleeding to death The sun has fallen down And the billboards are all leering And the flags are all dead at the top of their poles ...I open up my wallet And it's full of blood "~~Godspeed you black emperor.
- Kalinda
- Champion
- Posts: 2105
- Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 1:32 pm
- Location: Behind Sentinel, just in case...
Dark Brandon wrote:Borast wrote:Mack wrote:Gomen_Nagai wrote:Any Character who can Select WP Sharpshooting can select dual pistoling as their Sharpshooting Trick, as there are six of them..
Please explain that.
One of the "tricks" you can choose when you take W.P.: Sharpshooting is the use of two firearms simultaneously. However, there are restrictions on whom can take the W.P. in the first place.
I do not believe sharpshooting has that ability.
You are correct sir, WP: sharpshooting does not include the ability to use paired firearms, that ability is only available to a few OCCs.
I believe what is confusing people is that in the writeups of those OCCs, the ability 'paired guns' is listed right next to the sharpshooter abilitys
Personally, I think that we have a duty as role-players to try to anchor each other to reality a bit. To keep other gamers from being complete freaks and weirdos, or even psychopaths, if we can. Killer Cyborg
283 geek points. 42 McGeekpoints.
50 Smartass Points! Slag.
60 DaDa points.
283 geek points. 42 McGeekpoints.
50 Smartass Points! Slag.
60 DaDa points.
- dark brandon
- Knight
- Posts: 4527
- Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 10:20 pm
- Comment: I want you more when you're afraid of me.
- Location: Louisville, KY
C.R.A.F.T. wrote:Paired shooting should be a skill to be learned just like any other.
I would put a restriction on it that only characters with a PP of 15 or higher and ME of 12 or higher can attempt the feat.
The high PP is just for hand-eye coordination and the high ME is for situational awareness (knowing you surroundings in an ever-changing battle).
I don't mind it being a learned skill. Though you should take into account the limited number of skills OCC's that do get the dual pistol abilities and should ajust the skill as such.
In otherwords, I think if you are gonna allow someone to take it, you should make it cost a whole heaping of skills, and not just limit it to physical requirments. afterall, if I could play somethign like a cyber-knight and still get away with playing many of the benifits of a gunslinger, why would one want to play the gunslinger?
"We're trapped in the belly of this horrible machine And the machine is bleeding to death The sun has fallen down And the billboards are all leering And the flags are all dead at the top of their poles ...I open up my wallet And it's full of blood "~~Godspeed you black emperor.
- Killer Cyborg
- Priest
- Posts: 28123
- Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 2:01 am
- Comment: "Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
- Location: In the ocean, punching oncoming waves
- Contact:
jedi078 wrote:Killer Cyborg wrote:
I like this ruling because realistically anybody can try to fire paired guns... it's just harder to aim.
and with enough time on the range firing two weapons at the same time/target(s) they can become profcient at doing so.
Sure.
If they switch to a Man At Arms OCC.
Or if they level up enough that the penalties are offset by the bonuses.
Annual Best Poster of the Year Awards (2012)
"Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell
Check out my Author Page on Amazon!
"Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell
Check out my Author Page on Amazon!
Kalinda wrote:I believe what is confusing people is that in the writeups of those OCCs, the ability 'paired guns' is listed right next to the sharpshooter abilitys
You could very well be right.
That plus the fact that I haven't read New West or the other book(s) that deal with it in a while - except the "compiled" book, and I find it generally useless. The lay-out leaves much to be desired. But, then it was never planned on being a stand-alone book, neh?
Fnord
Cool...I've been FAQed... atleast twice!
.sig count to date: 2
"May your day be as eventful as you wish, and may your life only hurt as much as it has to." - Me...
Normality is Relative, Sanity is Conceptual, and I am neither.
Cool...I've been FAQed... atleast twice!
.sig count to date: 2
"May your day be as eventful as you wish, and may your life only hurt as much as it has to." - Me...
Normality is Relative, Sanity is Conceptual, and I am neither.