A continous beam laser?

[Blight]

I was thinking of make in a continuous beam laser for the game i designed a bunch of noncombat robot for the game, and a continuous cutting beam would be great on a construction robot. but I'm not sure how to work it it has to do a lot of damage just to cut through heavy mdc construction materials but i don't want to be good for combat. Any ideas?

[Killer Cyborg]

I was thinking of make in a continuous beam laser for the game i designed a bunch of noncombat robot for the game, and a continuous cutting beam would be great on a construction robot. but I'm not sure how to work it it has to do a lot of damage just to cut through heavy mdc construction materials but i don't want to be good for combat. Any ideas?

The Wilk's Laser torch is designed to weld and cut MDC materials.
It does 4d6 MD per blast.

[Blight]

I was thinking more industrial for cutting through heavy MDC plating used in construction and large vehicles, With out taking one 8hr shift just to cut 5ft of mdc metal. You know no real range (4-5ft max) but the ability to really cut up a mdc wall.

[Killer Cyborg]

I was thinking more industrial for cutting through heavy MDC plating used in construction and large vehicles, With out taking one 8hr shift just to cut 5ft of mdc metal. You know no real range (4-5ft max) but the ability to really cut up a mdc wall.

A Wilk's Laser Torch would do the job.
4d6 MD averages out to about 14 MD per "attack".
Average about 4 attacks per melee, and it inflicts 52 MD per 15 seconds.
That's 208 MD a minute.
Which is about 12,480 MD an hour.
An 8 hour shift would deal out about 99,840 MD.
Seems sufficient to me.

[The Beast]

I was thinking more industrial for cutting through heavy MDC plating used in construction and large vehicles, With out taking one 8hr shift just to cut 5ft of mdc metal. You know no real range (4-5ft max) but the ability to really cut up a mdc wall.

A Wilk's Laser Torch would do the job.
4d6 MD averages out to about 14 MD per "attack".
Average about 4 attacks per melee, and it inflicts 52 MD per 15 seconds.
That's 208 MD a minute.
Which is about 12,480 MD an hour.
An 8 hour shift would deal out about 99,840 MD.
Seems sufficient to me.

Your math is wrong. You forgot to subtract the time set aside for the union mandated breaks.

[grandmaster z0b]

If it is very heavy and not portable (like a bench saw or other bench mounted power tool) then I don't see anything wrong with it doing like 6d6 or 1d6x10 MDC but make it have a range of two inches (5cm). That way it could be used for quick MDC construction but not as a weapon.

Ammendum: I just thought that as it cannot be used as a weapon there is nothing wrong with saying it can cut 50 or 100 MDC in one round.

[RainOfSteel]

Your math is wrong. You forgot to subtract the time set aside for the union mandated breaks.

Or Murphy-mandated breakdowns.

[Killer Cyborg]

If it is very heavy and not portable (like a bench saw or other bench mounted power tool) then I don't see anything wrong with it doing like 6d6 or 1d6x10 MDC but make it have a range of two inches (5cm). That way it could be used for quick MDC construction but not as a weapon.

Ammendum: I just thought that as it cannot be used as a weapon there is nothing wrong with saying it can cut 50 or 100 MDC in one round.

The problem comes in that it sets a precedent.
If the tech on Rifts Earth can create a tool that deals that much damage, it could create weapons that deal that much damage (or more) using the same technology.
This is why I try to base my new devices on existing material as much as possible.

And when exactly are you going to have to dish out that much damage with a tool anyway? What do you think the stats are for sheets of MDC metal?

[Guest]

I'd think that a continious beam of mega-damage energy wouldn't eventually melt the muzzle or barrel where the energy was being dispersed. You'd have to let it cool often, would you?

[Zer0 Kay]

I was thinking more industrial for cutting through heavy MDC plating used in construction and large vehicles, With out taking one 8hr shift just to cut 5ft of mdc metal. You know no real range (4-5ft max) but the ability to really cut up a mdc wall.

A Wilk's Laser Torch would do the job.
4d6 MD averages out to about 14 MD per "attack".
Average about 4 attacks per melee, and it inflicts 52 MD per 15 seconds.
That's 208 MD a minute.
Which is about 12,480 MD an hour.
An 8 hour shift would deal out about 99,840 MD.
Seems sufficient to me.

Your math is wrong. You forgot to subtract the time set aside for the union mandated breaks.

I didn't know there was a slave union?

[Zer0 Kay]

If it is very heavy and not portable (like a bench saw or other bench mounted power tool) then I don't see anything wrong with it doing like 6d6 or 1d6x10 MDC but make it have a range of two inches (5cm). That way it could be used for quick MDC construction but not as a weapon.

Ammendum: I just thought that as it cannot be used as a weapon there is nothing wrong with saying it can cut 50 or 100 MDC in one round.

The problem comes in that it sets a precedent.
If the tech on Rifts Earth can create a tool that deals that much damage, it could create weapons that deal that much damage (or more) using the same technology.
This is why I try to base my new devices on existing material as much as possible.

And when exactly are you going to have to dish out that much damage with a tool anyway? What do you think the stats are for sheets of MDC metal?

How is that true? You reduce the power used for projecting the beam at range and focus it upclose. Then extend the pulse into durration. So you end up with an laser torch that does 100 flat MD per second to a contact only range. Try to keep on a moving target without someone shooting at you and keeping the head in perfect contact. Figure 18-20 for getting in contact in the first place in combat and any attack on the person or device has a 75% chance of breaking contact. Try turning that into a weapon.

[Qev]

I'd think that a continious beam of mega-damage energy wouldn't eventually melt the muzzle or barrel where the energy was being dispersed. You'd have to let it cool often, would you?

Well, for industrial applications, I imagine you could fit a lot more cooling gear onto the laser, since it doesn't have to be as portable as a weaponized laser. Probably also why weaponized lasers fire in pulses; you can reach ridiculously high energies, without melting your equipment, if you do it for short enough periods.

[TechnoGothic]

I was thinking of make in a continuous beam laser for the game i designed a bunch of noncombat robot for the game, and a continuous cutting beam would be great on a construction robot. but I'm not sure how to work it it has to do a lot of damage just to cut through heavy mdc construction materials but i don't want to be good for combat. Any ideas?

Wilk's Laser Scalpel
Wilk's Laser Torch
Wilk's Laser Knife
Wilk's Laser Sword


ALL Short ranged in the extreme as far as laser weapons go...

A Laser Sword would work great for cutting...

[Tinker Dragoon]

The old Southern Cross book for Robotech had a handy rule for continous beam lasers: the damage was dependent on range from the target.

As the lasers in that book were intended as weapons, they only lost half their damage at long range, but for the laser you envision, you could set the damage in multiple range increments of several feet (or even inches) each.

[Killer Cyborg]

If it is very heavy and not portable (like a bench saw or other bench mounted power tool) then I don't see anything wrong with it doing like 6d6 or 1d6x10 MDC but make it have a range of two inches (5cm). That way it could be used for quick MDC construction but not as a weapon.

Ammendum: I just thought that as it cannot be used as a weapon there is nothing wrong with saying it can cut 50 or 100 MDC in one round.

The problem comes in that it sets a precedent.
If the tech on Rifts Earth can create a tool that deals that much damage, it could create weapons that deal that much damage (or more) using the same technology.
This is why I try to base my new devices on existing material as much as possible.

And when exactly are you going to have to dish out that much damage with a tool anyway? What do you think the stats are for sheets of MDC metal?

How is that true? You reduce the power used for projecting the beam at range and focus it upclose. Then extend the pulse into durration. So you end up with an laser torch that does 100 flat MD per second to a contact only range. Try to keep on a moving target without someone shooting at you and keeping the head in perfect contact. Figure 18-20 for getting in contact in the first place in combat and any attack on the person or device has a 75% chance of breaking contact. Try turning that into a weapon.

Sounds to me like you're describing a melee weapon that can do 200-300 MD per attack.

[Killer Cyborg]

I'd think that a continious beam of mega-damage energy wouldn't eventually melt the muzzle or barrel where the energy was being dispersed. You'd have to let it cool often, would you?

Well, for industrial applications, I imagine you could fit a lot more cooling gear onto the laser, since it doesn't have to be as portable as a weaponized laser. Probably also why weaponized lasers fire in pulses; you can reach ridiculously high energies, without melting your equipment, if you do it for short enough periods.

I don't know how much heat a laser beam would actually shed. It's supposed to be coherent light, all focused in one direction, so why would heat leak out the sides of the beam into the barrel of the gun?

In any case, it takes a LOT of heat to damage a mega-damage weapon.

[Qev]

I don't know how much heat a laser beam would actually shed. It's supposed to be coherent light, all focused in one direction, so why would heat leak out the sides of the beam into the barrel of the gun?

A high-powered laser like the weapons in Rifts would be generating an awful lot of heat, really. Bear in mind that the actual 'beam' of a laser is only about 5% (or something like that) of the total energy involved in the lasing process, the rest goes into energizing the lasing material, maintaining population inversion, bouncing between reflectors, and obviously, waste heat.

IIRC, the big, big, big lasers they use in fusion research are mostly under water, to keep them from heating up and self-destructing.

In any case, it takes a LOT of heat to damage a mega-damage weapon.

That's something I've never understood... why would an MD laser rifle itself have MD? It's not like I could block conventional bullets by interposing my own assault rifle between myself and the shooter.

Not to mention, while the outer shell of an MD weapon has mega-damage capacity, I doubt the internals do.

[Killer Cyborg]

I don't know how much heat a laser beam would actually shed. It's supposed to be coherent light, all focused in one direction, so why would heat leak out the sides of the beam into the barrel of the gun?

A high-powered laser like the weapons in Rifts would be generating an awful lot of heat, really. Bear in mind that the actual 'beam' of a laser is only about 5% (or something like that) of the total energy involved in the lasing process, the rest goes into energizing the lasing material, maintaining population inversion, bouncing between reflectors, and obviously, waste heat.

IIRC, the big, big, big lasers they use in fusion research are mostly under water, to keep them from heating up and self-destructing.

I'll take your word for it.

In any case, it takes a LOT of heat to damage a mega-damage weapon.

That's something I've never understood... why would an MD laser rifle itself have MD? It's not like I could block conventional bullets by interposing my own assault rifle between myself and the shooter.

Not to mention, while the outer shell of an MD weapon has mega-damage capacity, I doubt the internals do.

Generally I assume that if something is mega-damage, then it's that way throughout. Unless there is some specific reason not to believe otherwise.

As to why they would make guns out of MDC material, I'd say it's because it makes them darn tough to break and much less likely to break down.
Wear and tear is SDC damage, and you can drop your gun off a cliff an it will still work just fine.

(Oh, and depending on how your GM plays things, it might take explosion damage from grenages/missiles...)

[Blight]

Sorry i've been gone, some great ideas the thought i had was to run a game were a lot of military grade stuff was limited and it the guys in play decided to raid a construction site so i designed special construction equipment. much simpler (less effective) than the military bots these things used standard construction equipment as weapon the biggest is a vehicle really on tracks. So no mini missiles but giant cutters, hammers saws, and a wreaking ball were what they are equipped with. They are big tough, really strong and slow, But the party loves them i figured a giant cutting laser would be neat like, a wilks cutting laser but huge a slow moving precision peace of equipment it' couldn't have more than a 2 to 3 foot range of safety reasons it's a mounted arm on one of the botts it's huge and weights a ton.

[Rimmerdal]

Sorry i've been gone, some great ideas the thought i had was to run a game were a lot of military grade stuff was limited and it the guys in play decided to raid a construction site so i designed special construction equipment. much simpler (less effective) than the military bots these things used standard construction equipment as weapon the biggest is a vehicle really on tracks. So no mini missiles but giant cutters, hammers saws, and a wreaking ball were what they are equipped with. They are big tough, really strong and slow, But the party loves them i figured a giant cutting laser would be neat like, a wilks cutting laser but huge a slow moving precision peace of equipment it' couldn't have more than a 2 to 3 foot range of safety reasons it's a mounted arm on one of the botts it's huge and weights a ton.

A suit in the same idea of a SCV from Starcraft might work...Rifts can make a much more effective kind with wilk's tech.

[grandmaster z0b]

If it is very heavy and not portable (like a bench saw or other bench mounted power tool) then I don't see anything wrong with it doing like 6d6 or 1d6x10 MDC but make it have a range of two inches (5cm). That way it could be used for quick MDC construction but not as a weapon.

Ammendum: I just thought that as it cannot be used as a weapon there is nothing wrong with saying it can cut 50 or 100 MDC in one round.

The problem comes in that it sets a precedent.
If the tech on Rifts Earth can create a tool that deals that much damage, it could create weapons that deal that much damage (or more) using the same technology.
This is why I try to base my new devices on existing material as much as possible.

And when exactly are you going to have to dish out that much damage with a tool anyway? What do you think the stats are for sheets of MDC metal?

How is that true? You reduce the power used for projecting the beam at range and focus it upclose. Then extend the pulse into durration. So you end up with an laser torch that does 100 flat MD per second to a contact only range. Try to keep on a moving target without someone shooting at you and keeping the head in perfect contact. Figure 18-20 for getting in contact in the first place in combat and any attack on the person or device has a 75% chance of breaking contact. Try turning that into a weapon.

Sounds to me like you're describing a melee weapon that can do 200-300 MD per attack.

OK, to start with if you read my original post you could not use it as a weapon. You can't use a bench grinder or a lathe as a weapon, you cannot use an industrial welder as a weapon but they could cut through steel easily. They have no range and cannot be moved so there is no precedent for ridiculous weapons.

Secondly, I think that the technology of Rifts earth should be able to produce more powerful weapons than described. However I don't think I created a weapon that is unreasonable in comparison to rifts technology for the reasons above.

[Daniel Stoker]

OK, to start with if you read my original post you could not use it as a weapon. You can't use a bench grinder or a lathe as a weapon, you cannot use an industrial welder as a weapon but they could cut through steel easily. They have no range and cannot be moved so there is no precedent for ridiculous weapons.

So are you saying you can't construct a primative Lathe to fight off the giant rock monster?



Daniel Stoker

[Zer0 Kay]

If it is very heavy and not portable (like a bench saw or other bench mounted power tool) then I don't see anything wrong with it doing like 6d6 or 1d6x10 MDC but make it have a range of two inches (5cm). That way it could be used for quick MDC construction but not as a weapon.

Ammendum: I just thought that as it cannot be used as a weapon there is nothing wrong with saying it can cut 50 or 100 MDC in one round.

The problem comes in that it sets a precedent.
If the tech on Rifts Earth can create a tool that deals that much damage, it could create weapons that deal that much damage (or more) using the same technology.
This is why I try to base my new devices on existing material as much as possible.

And when exactly are you going to have to dish out that much damage with a tool anyway? What do you think the stats are for sheets of MDC metal?

How is that true? You reduce the power used for projecting the beam at range and focus it upclose. Then extend the pulse into durration. So you end up with an laser torch that does 100 flat MD per second to a contact only range. Try to keep on a moving target without someone shooting at you and keeping the head in perfect contact. Figure 18-20 for getting in contact in the first place in combat and any attack on the person or device has a 75% chance of breaking contact. Try turning that into a weapon.

Sounds to me like you're describing a melee weapon that can do 200-300 MD per attack.

As said before you just try keeping PERFECT contact for an entire second on something that is trying to kill you.

[Zer0 Kay]

I would say the most prudent form of manufacturing would be Stereolithography on a mega proportional level. There would be liquid poly-metal alloy photosensitive resign in huge vats and lasers would create the objects mostly already fully assembled, but with the necessary omitions of assembly to allow the insertion of other parts and material not done in the main system. There would be less dependency on cutters. At least it would be more interesting.

gee I must have missed where this started. So why wouldn't nanofactories be used? You have all the necessary materials in a vat and the nanites assemble a chosen item all the way down to the wire trace on a chip. Of course you can limit it somehow by deciding the nanites can't handle a particular material.

[Killer Cyborg]

OK, to start with if you read my original post you could not use it as a weapon.

You can use anything as a weapon.

You can't use a bench grinder or a lathe as a weapon, you cannot use an industrial welder as a weapon but they could cut through steel easily. They have no range and cannot be moved so there is no precedent for ridiculous weapons.

How exactly do you get a powerful laser beam that has no range?
How big is this thing that it can't be built into power armor?

Secondly, I think that the technology of Rifts earth should be able to produce more powerful weapons than described. However I don't think I created a weapon that is unreasonable in comparison to rifts technology for the reasons above.

I, obviously, disagree.
It's blatantly more powerful than anything in the books (anything not mounted on a starcruiser, that is).

[Killer Cyborg]

As said before you just try keeping PERFECT contact for an entire second on something that is trying to kill you.

What do you mean by "perfect contact"?
Limite beam range meanst that you hit them with the beam.
Why would you have to keep perfect contact with them in order to do damage? You don't have to with any other laser weapons.

[grandmaster z0b]

OK, to start with if you read my original post you could not use it as a weapon.

You can use anything as a weapon.

You can't use a bench grinder or a lathe as a weapon, you cannot use an industrial welder as a weapon but they could cut through steel easily. They have no range and cannot be moved so there is no precedent for ridiculous weapons.

How exactly do you get a powerful laser beam that has no range?
How big is this thing that it can't be built into power armor?

Secondly, I think that the technology of Rifts earth should be able to produce more powerful weapons than described. However I don't think I created a weapon that is unreasonable in comparison to rifts technology for the reasons above.

I, obviously, disagree.
It's blatantly more powerful than anything in the books (anything not mounted on a starcruiser, that is).

So you think you can use a lathe or a bench grinder as a weapon?
Fear the mighty vehicle mounted drill press! Plasma lathe of DOOM! Have you ever worked in a metal shop? I don't think you understand the difference between a weapon and an industrial power too.
In any case I have a lot of experience both blacksmithing and using power tools to make armour and weapons and there is a vast difference.

Either way I'm not going to bother arguing about this any more, if your happy with the Wilks laser torch being the one and only MDC cutting/welding tool in the game and nothing could be better that's fine by me.

[Gomen_Nagai]

the big mechanoids are all armed with Death dealing industrial power tools.

[grandmaster z0b]

OK, to start with if you read my original post you could not use it as a weapon.

You can use anything as a weapon.

Point Killer Cyborg; anything, even words, can be weapons. It's not what the item is.. but rather how you employ it.

You can't use a bench grinder or a lathe as a weapon, you cannot use an industrial welder as a weapon but they could cut through steel easily. They have no range and cannot be moved so there is no precedent for ridiculous weapons.

Yes, you can. Having taken shop class, worked in an auto service department, and now in retail hardware.. I'm well aware of the damage a lathe, grinder, or a simple welder can do. There's a reason why they all have warnings for using them properly with the appropriate safety gear in place.

Place your hand on a grinder's stone.. run the welder in front of your face.. etc. Mobility and range are not required for a something to be a weapon.

You can deal a lot of damage with industrial tools. The issue is that I don't see someone walking into battle carrying one. A table saw can do some *serious* damage. Heck, so can a chainsaw... and chainsaws are portable. They're also really heavy and unwieldy, so against someone wielding a sword--let alone a gun-- the device that is designed to kill people before they have a chance to kill you comes out on top.

That's my point, these things deal serious damage, but cannot be considered a weapon like a gun or a sword. When I talk about weaponry I'm referring to things that are made for that purpose or can be employed in a very similar way. So putting your hand in an MDC bench mounted laser drill will do more damage than the wilks laser torch, but is not going to suddenly allow people to mount one on their PA, it's just not built for that purpose.

[Qev]

You can use anything as a weapon.

That's it. I'm making a Crazy OCC character with WP Marshmallow.

How exactly do you get a powerful laser beam that has no range?
How big is this thing that it can't be built into power armor?

Well, for cutting systems, you could use multiple low-powered lasers that all focus on one spot... kind of how radiation therapy works, actually. Personally, I'd think an industrial cutting laser in Rifts would be weaker than a weaponized laser, in raw wattage. The fact that it's a continuous beam would be what allows it to cut so well.

Also, a continuous beam device would make a very poor weapon under these conditions, as in order to do any damage to a particular point on the target, you'd have to have a significant beam dwell time. Hard to do this except under very controlled circumstances.

[Killer Cyborg]

OK, to start with if you read my original post you could not use it as a weapon.

You can use anything as a weapon.

Point Killer Cyborg; anything, even words, can be weapons. It's not what the item is.. but rather how you employ it.

You can't use a bench grinder or a lathe as a weapon, you cannot use an industrial welder as a weapon but they could cut through steel easily. They have no range and cannot be moved so there is no precedent for ridiculous weapons.

Yes, you can. Having taken shop class, worked in an auto service department, and now in retail hardware.. I'm well aware of the damage a lathe, grinder, or a simple welder can do. There's a reason why they all have warnings for using them properly with the appropriate safety gear in place.

Place your hand on a grinder's stone.. run the welder in front of your face.. etc. Mobility and range are not required for a something to be a weapon.

You can deal a lot of damage with industrial tools. The issue is that I don't see someone walking into battle carrying one. A table saw can do some *serious* damage. Heck, so can a chainsaw... and chainsaws are portable. They're also really heavy and unwieldy, so against someone wielding a sword--let alone a gun-- the device that is designed to kill people before they have a chance to kill you comes out on top.

That's my point, these things deal serious damage, but cannot be considered a weapon like a gun or a sword. When I talk about weaponry I'm referring to things that are made for that purpose or can be employed in a very similar way. So putting your hand in an MDC bench mounted laser drill will do more damage than the wilks laser torch, but is not going to suddenly allow people to mount one on their PA, it's just not built for that purpose.

A tablesaw can easily be detached from the table. Minor modifications and it's just as easy to use as a weapon as a chainsaw.
A Drillpress is just a drill with a special mounting table; you can make a hand-drill that is just as powerful.
A bench-mounted laser torch would be the same way.

And, again, I have to ask what exactly you'll be cutting where you'd need to do that much damage?! Millenium trees?
A Wilk's Laser torch does the job nicely enough.

[Killer Cyborg]

You can use anything as a weapon.

That's it. I'm making a Crazy OCC character with WP Marshmallow.

How exactly do you get a powerful laser beam that has no range?
How big is this thing that it can't be built into power armor?

Well, for cutting systems, you could use multiple low-powered lasers that all focus on one spot... kind of how radiation therapy works, actually. Personally, I'd think an industrial cutting laser in Rifts would be weaker than a weaponized laser, in raw wattage. The fact that it's a continuous beam would be what allows it to cut so well.

Also, a continuous beam device would make a very poor weapon under these conditions, as in order to do any damage to a particular point on the target, you'd have to have a significant beam dwell time. Hard to do this except under very controlled circumstances.

I agree on the dwell time only if your assumption about low power is correct. On the other hand, if the weapon could do the proposed 100 MD per second, then even a 1/2 second pass would do 50 MD.

But personally, I'd make the device with a built in magnet or other way of attaching it onto something and leaving it there. That much damage could breach the hull of MDC battleships, walls, or spaceships in short order.

[grandmaster z0b]

OK, to start with if you read my original post you could not use it as a weapon.

You can use anything as a weapon.

Point Killer Cyborg; anything, even words, can be weapons. It's not what the item is.. but rather how you employ it.

You can't use a bench grinder or a lathe as a weapon, you cannot use an industrial welder as a weapon but they could cut through steel easily. They have no range and cannot be moved so there is no precedent for ridiculous weapons.

Yes, you can. Having taken shop class, worked in an auto service department, and now in retail hardware.. I'm well aware of the damage a lathe, grinder, or a simple welder can do. There's a reason why they all have warnings for using them properly with the appropriate safety gear in place.

Place your hand on a grinder's stone.. run the welder in front of your face.. etc. Mobility and range are not required for a something to be a weapon.

You can deal a lot of damage with industrial tools. The issue is that I don't see someone walking into battle carrying one. A table saw can do some *serious* damage. Heck, so can a chainsaw... and chainsaws are portable. They're also really heavy and unwieldy, so against someone wielding a sword--let alone a gun-- the device that is designed to kill people before they have a chance to kill you comes out on top.

That's my point, these things deal serious damage, but cannot be considered a weapon like a gun or a sword. When I talk about weaponry I'm referring to things that are made for that purpose or can be employed in a very similar way. So putting your hand in an MDC bench mounted laser drill will do more damage than the wilks laser torch, but is not going to suddenly allow people to mount one on their PA, it's just not built for that purpose.

A tablesaw can easily be detached from the table. Minor modifications and it's just as easy to use as a weapon as a chainsaw.
A Drillpress is just a drill with a special mounting table; you can make a hand-drill that is just as powerful.
A bench-mounted laser torch would be the same way.

And, again, I have to ask what exactly you'll be cutting where you'd need to do that much damage?! Millenium trees?
A Wilk's Laser torch does the job nicely enough.

OK, but I have never liked the idea that a drill or a buzz saw or a chainsaw could ever be used as a weapon. It's just not practicle.
I wasn't the one who quoted 100 MDC per second by the way, I suggested 6d6 or 50 - 100 MDC per round or per minute.
Why is the Wilk laser torch the only one? Isn't it likely that if there is a light hand portable laser drill that does 4d6 then there would be a larger, heavy, non-portable (or less portable) drill that does more damage?

[Killer Cyborg]

OK, but I have never liked the idea that a drill or a buzz saw or a chainsaw could ever be used as a weapon. It's just not practicle.
I wasn't the one who quoted 100 MDC per second by the way, I suggested 6d6 or 50 - 100 MDC per round or per minute.
Why is the Wilk laser torch the only one? Isn't it likely that if there is a light hand portable laser drill that does 4d6 then there would be a larger, heavy, non-portable (or less portable) drill that does more damage?

Not in Rifts.
I mean, the laser cannons are usually less effective than the hand-held versions...

6d6 is much more reasonable, but I think it's still a bit much for laser damage.
A plasma cutter, on the other hand, I could see doing that much damage.

Thinking along that line...
When the Wilk's laser torch was written the most powerful single-shot laser blast was 4d6 MD. That was the torch's most powerful setting.
This might be a good judge for other energy types as well.
A Particle Cutter, for example might do 1d4x10 MD... same as the NG-P7, but with much less range (I'd say about 5' max).

[Zer0 Kay]

As said before you just try keeping PERFECT contact for an entire second on something that is trying to kill you.

What do you mean by "perfect contact"?
Limite beam range meanst that you hit them with the beam.
Why would you have to keep perfect contact with them in order to do damage? You don't have to with any other laser weapons.

Simple... because the tool is made that way. Why do you have to press a pneumatic hammer up against the surface your nailing? Because it has a safety. Why are you asking why? Do you refute the Boom Gun? Do you say that Railguns can't put out so many rounds? Do you say what kind of idiot would want to go around with needles stuck in him all the time. Do you comment that there shouldn't be needles and more like flexible I.V. tubes? Stop asking why. I said so because Zob wanted a tool. So I tried limiting it to a tool. As far as what I mean by perfect contact, I mean the nozzle of the tool needs to be placed against the surface it is supposed to cut. maybe even requiring a liquid or paste be applied so that there is no air between it and the material.

There we go a special focusing jell paste must be applied to the cutting area which the beam cutter will be set into. Without the paste the beam does a measly 4MD per second. The paste only works if the weapon is in direct contact (why? BECAUSE)

[Qev]

Also, a continuous beam device would make a very poor weapon under these conditions, as in order to do any damage to a particular point on the target, you'd have to have a significant beam dwell time. Hard to do this except under very controlled circumstances.

I agree on the dwell time only if your assumption about low power is correct. On the other hand, if the weapon could do the proposed 100 MD per second, then even a 1/2 second pass would do 50 MD.

But personally, I'd make the device with a built in magnet or other way of attaching it onto something and leaving it there. That much damage could breach the hull of MDC battleships, walls, or spaceships in short order.

The reason I'm assuming low power, though, is because it's less technically challenging to make a high intensity, short duration pulse laser than it is to make an equivalently high intensity, continuous beam laser... at least in the real world. Our most powerful lasers (the ones used in fusion and other high energy research) have ridiculously short beam durations, on the order of picoseconds.

And yeah, I kinda have to agree that a 100MDC/second industrial laser seems a bit crazy. I don't see why they would have to be particularly powerful, compared to weapon lasers, anyway; a cutting laser is tightly focused under very controlled conditions, to cut material, not blast it to oblivion.

[Killer Cyborg]

As said before you just try keeping PERFECT contact for an entire second on something that is trying to kill you.

What do you mean by "perfect contact"?
Limite beam range meanst that you hit them with the beam.
Why would you have to keep perfect contact with them in order to do damage? You don't have to with any other laser weapons.

Simple... because the tool is made that way. Why do you have to press a pneumatic hammer up against the surface your nailing? Because it has a safety.

You mean a nailgun?
I've seen guys hold back the safety part with their hand and skeet-shoot at empty paint cans with the things.
Easy enough to use as a weapon.

Why are you asking why? Do you refute the Boom Gun? Do you say that Railguns can't put out so many rounds? Do you say what kind of idiot would want to go around with needles stuck in him all the time. Do you comment that there shouldn't be needles and more like flexible I.V. tubes?

I don't really question any of that, because that all makes sense.

Stop asking why. I said so because Zob wanted a tool. So I tried limiting it to a tool. As far as what I mean by perfect contact, I mean the nozzle of the tool needs to be placed against the surface it is supposed to cut. maybe even requiring a liquid or paste be applied so that there is no air between it and the material.

There we go a special focusing jell paste must be applied to the cutting area which the beam cutter will be set into. Without the paste the beam does a measly 4MD per second. The paste only works if the weapon is in direct contact (why? BECAUSE)

I prefer to have a better answer than that.

[Killer Cyborg]

I kinda have to agree that a 100MDC/second industrial laser seems a bit crazy. I don't see why they would have to be particularly powerful, compared to weapon lasers, anyway; a cutting laser is tightly focused under very controlled conditions, to cut material, not blast it to oblivion.

Exactly.
Rifts already has stats for any number of laser cutting tools, so why not just use one of them?
Or at least base the stats for the new device off of the existing ones...

[Thinyser]

I was thinking of make in a continuous beam laser for the game i designed a bunch of noncombat robot for the game, and a continuous cutting beam would be great on a construction robot. but I'm not sure how to work it it has to do a lot of damage just to cut through heavy mdc construction materials but i don't want to be good for combat. Any ideas?

Lots of damage but VERY short range...say 1-2 feet, and have it so the limb it is attached to may not move faster than 1 foot per second while the laser is on...this would stop punches from being augmented by the laser...

[grandmaster z0b]

OK, but I have never liked the idea that a drill or a buzz saw or a chainsaw could ever be used as a weapon. It's just not practicle.
I wasn't the one who quoted 100 MDC per second by the way, I suggested 6d6 or 50 - 100 MDC per round or per minute.
Why is the Wilk laser torch the only one? Isn't it likely that if there is a light hand portable laser drill that does 4d6 then there would be a larger, heavy, non-portable (or less portable) drill that does more damage?

Not in Rifts.
I mean, the laser cannons are usually less effective than the hand-held versions...

6d6 is much more reasonable, but I think it's still a bit much for laser damage.
A plasma cutter, on the other hand, I could see doing that much damage.

Thinking along that line...
When the Wilk's laser torch was written the most powerful single-shot laser blast was 4d6 MD. That was the torch's most powerful setting.
This might be a good judge for other energy types as well.
A Particle Cutter, for example might do 1d4x10 MD... same as the NG-P7, but with much less range (I'd say about 5' max).

Yeah that seems resonable, pretty much what I was thinking.

[grandmaster z0b]

OK, but I have never liked the idea that a drill or a buzz saw or a chainsaw could ever be used as a weapon. It's just not practicle.
...snip

I know a couple of Samoan gentlemen that would beg to differ with you on that...They were the "war" leaders of a gang called the Sons of Samoa bought 20 years back (back when I was in high school), and they used a small chainsaw and a rechargable power drill in gang fights.

Ever see what a 3/4 inch counter rotating boring bit does to a human torso? Not good... the intimidation factor alone was enormous.

They are only good for intimidation, almost useless against someone with a real weapon who knows how to use it.
I very rarely say things like this but I would quite happily go toe to toe with that Samoan who was armed with a drill if I had even a baseball bat or a club.

Speed and balance are what makes a good weapon, which neither the drill nor the chainsaw have, although a light chainsaw may be OK I don't see why you wouldn't just use a machette.

Luckily enough I have never seen what a drill does to a torso. To use it you would have to hold the victim down. Have you ever seen what a club, mace, spear, knife, axe etc. does to any part of the human body? All are easier to buy or make as well.

[grandmaster z0b]

Simple... because the tool is made that way. Why do you have to press a pneumatic hammer up against the surface your nailing? Because it has a safety.

You mean a nailgun?
I've seen guys hold back the safety part with their hand and skeet-shoot at empty paint cans with the things.
Easy enough to use as a weapon.

I believe he means something like an air hammer... a nail gun is different. Although if you're not careful you can launch the hammer/chisel to quite a distance. For example, watch Tomb Raider. It's what Lara uses while in the garage to take down some of her attackers.

Luckily enough I have never seen what a drill does to a torso. To use it you would have to hold the victim down. Have you ever seen what a club, mace, spear, knife, axe etc. does to any part of the human body? All are easier to buy or make as well.

No, you wouldn't need hold them down. Just thrust, same as you would with any other bladed weapon. If the bit is a holesaw or designed for wood-boring... the wound will be big, messy.. and in the case of the holesaw, bone may not even stop it. Especially when you've got a high-torque drill, like this (1050 in-lbs is a LOT of torque)

Furthermore, a drill is far less conspicious than walking with a 6" knife or an axe. If you do either in an urban setting you're likely to be stopped by a police officer; especially if there are laws regulating the sale/carrying of such things. Walk with a drill and people won't think twice about it.

I don't think that's really true, a knife is quite easy to hide, and every single kitchen in a house has a wide variety them. If you wanted to use a tool to kill someone to look inconspicuous, use a screwdriver.
In countries without a proliferation of handguns, the most common murder weapons are kitchen knives and screwdrivers, axes and hatches are not far behind.
Drills etc. are only used by organised crime for intimidation purposes, I don't care how much torque you have, it's easier to stab someone with a kife or a shiv than a drill, it has to do with physics. With a stabbing weapon all the force and energy is focused on the tip, so it can easily punch through. If you used a drill your distributing that energy not only over a wider surface area, but diffusing the energy with the circular motion. A drill would be messier and harder to heal, but that's about it.

[Zer0 Kay]

As said before you just try keeping PERFECT contact for an entire second on something that is trying to kill you.

What do you mean by "perfect contact"?
Limite beam range meanst that you hit them with the beam.
Why would you have to keep perfect contact with them in order to do damage? You don't have to with any other laser weapons.

Simple... because the tool is made that way. Why do you have to press a pneumatic hammer up against the surface your nailing? Because it has a safety.

You mean a nailgun?
I've seen guys hold back the safety part with their hand and skeet-shoot at empty paint cans with the things.
Easy enough to use as a weapon.

so you make the safety require 180lbs of pressure (guy leaning on it) it would be very ineffective as a weapon. Don't forget that the range is 0" requireing your to be right up against the target anyway.

Why are you asking why? Do you refute the Boom Gun? Do you say that Railguns can't put out so many rounds? Do you say what kind of idiot would want to go around with needles stuck in him all the time. Do you comment that there shouldn't be needles and more like flexible I.V. tubes?

I don't really question any of that, because that all makes sense.

A boom gun doing damage at such a low speed makes sense? A railgun wouldn't be able to put out that many rounds. It would be better to use I.V. type connectors instead of freaking needles for the Juicers. What do you mean it makes sense?

Stop asking why. I said so because Zob wanted a tool. So I tried limiting it to a tool. As far as what I mean by perfect contact, I mean the nozzle of the tool needs to be placed against the surface it is supposed to cut. maybe even requiring a liquid or paste be applied so that there is no air between it and the material.

There we go a special focusing jell paste must be applied to the cutting area which the beam cutter will be set into. Without the paste the beam does a measly 4MD per second. The paste only works if the weapon is in direct contact (why? BECAUSE)

I prefer to have a better answer than that.

Why? Most of Rifts is that way anyway. What answer could you come up with? Instead of showing how everyones doesn't work find a way it can.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

i agree

[Mech-Viper Prime]

OK, but I have never liked the idea that a drill or a buzz saw or a chainsaw could ever be used as a weapon. It's just not practicle.
...snip

I know a couple of Samoan gentlemen that would beg to differ with you on that...They were the "war" leaders of a gang called the Sons of Samoa bought 20 years back (back when I was in high school), and they used a small chainsaw and a rechargable power drill in gang fights.

Ever see what a 3/4 inch counter rotating boring bit does to a human torso? Not good... the intimidation factor alone was enormous.

They are only good for intimidation, almost useless against someone with a real weapon who knows how to use it.
I very rarely say things like this but I would quite happily go toe to toe with that Samoan who was armed with a drill if I had even a baseball bat or a club.

Speed and balance are what makes a good weapon, which neither the drill nor the chainsaw have, although a light chainsaw may be OK I don't see why you wouldn't just use a machette.

Luckily enough I have never seen what a drill does to a torso. To use it you would have to hold the victim down. Have you ever seen what a club, mace, spear, knife, axe etc. does to any part of the human body? All are easier to buy or make as well.

I would say a Power Drill is a real weapon to someone that knew how to use it...

dam right

[grandmaster z0b]

OK, but I have never liked the idea that a drill or a buzz saw or a chainsaw could ever be used as a weapon. It's just not practicle.
...snip

I know a couple of Samoan gentlemen that would beg to differ with you on that...They were the "war" leaders of a gang called the Sons of Samoa bought 20 years back (back when I was in high school), and they used a small chainsaw and a rechargable power drill in gang fights.

Ever see what a 3/4 inch counter rotating boring bit does to a human torso? Not good... the intimidation factor alone was enormous.

They are only good for intimidation, almost useless against someone with a real weapon who knows how to use it.
I very rarely say things like this but I would quite happily go toe to toe with that Samoan who was armed with a drill if I had even a baseball bat or a club.

Speed and balance are what makes a good weapon, which neither the drill nor the chainsaw have, although a light chainsaw may be OK I don't see why you wouldn't just use a machette.

Luckily enough I have never seen what a drill does to a torso. To use it you would have to hold the victim down. Have you ever seen what a club, mace, spear, knife, axe etc. does to any part of the human body? All are easier to buy or make as well.

I would say a Power Drill is a real weapon to someone that knew how to use it...

dam right

No.
It's like saying a building is a weapon because you can smash someones' head into it, or a pillow is a wepaon because you can smother someone with it. In that case everything in the world is a weapon because anything can be used as one.
This is becoming a somantic argument about what is and isn't a weapon and I was referring to weapons that were designed and made specifically for the purposes of killing; handguns, swords etc.
See my other post above about why a drill is not a great weapon.

[Blight]

but some tools are better as weapons than the traditional "weapons".
Take the wood or firemans ax I would much rather use them over a footman's or horsemans ax. And i'll face a "swordsman" with one any day. (I do twice a week). The brush hog (a hooked billed clearing tool) is an amazingly versatile weapon. You should try one z0b i think you would like it. All weapons (melee) Started as tool the knife, ax, polearms, and there progenitors are still quite effective.

[grandmaster z0b]

but some tools are better as weapons than the traditional "weapons".
Take the wood or firemans ax I would much rather use them over a footman's or horsemans ax. And i'll face a "swordsman" with one any day. (I do twice a week). The brush hog (a hooked billed clearing tool) is an amazingly versatile weapon. You should try one z0b i think you would like it. All weapons (melee) Started as tool the knife, ax, polearms, and there progenitors are still quite effective.

I agree, (except I don't know why you would prefer a wood axe over one made for combat) my point was : a power drill is not a good weapon.
When you say "swordsman" are you talking about a fencer?

[grandmaster z0b]

It's like saying a building is a weapon because you can smash someones' head into it, or a pillow is a wepaon because you can smother someone with it. In that case everything in the world is a weapon because anything can be used as one.
This is becoming a somantic argument about what is and isn't a weapon and I was referring to weapons that were designed and made specifically for the purposes of killing; handguns, swords etc.
See my other post above about why a drill is not a great weapon.

I think you're seeing the point.. although it had to be hammered in since it was stated earlier in a simple statement of "Anything can be used as a weapon".. although I am paraphrasing and I forget who said it first.

What are you talking about?:-? "Anything can be used as a weapon" was never the point, I said it before and I'll say it again because I'm not sure people are reading the entire thread a power drill is not a good weapon compared to a knife, club, sword etc.

Geez now before anybody else has an irrelevant comment please read the thread and try and keep the comments on track.

[Blight]

but some tools are better as weapons than the traditional "weapons".
Take the wood or firemans ax I would much rather use them over a footman's or horsemans ax. And i'll face a "swordsman" with one any day. (I do twice a week). The brush hog (a hooked billed clearing tool) is an amazingly versatile weapon. You should try one z0b i think you would like it. All weapons (melee) Started as tool the knife, ax, polearms, and there progenitors are still quite effective.

I agree, (except I don't know why you would prefer a wood axe over one made for combat) my point was : a power drill is not a good weapon.
When you say "swordsman" are you talking about a fencer?

one i like the weight and feel. Battle axes are kind of light save for fantasy axes like those big bipennance you see people buying. the heaviest axe used i found is the german footmans axe and it isn't that big and i love splintering shield with live steel.
And by swordsman i mean a sword and boarded (sword and shield). Were not allowed to use axes when fencing (or maces, polearms, or heavier blades)