PHASE WORLD: ship repair time and costs...

[Braden Campbell]

As you might be able to tell from the number of Phase World posts recently, this is my new game (having finnished with Rifts). And so, as situations come up for the first time, questions must be asked.

The PC-mobile was heavily damaged last session by a Splugorth Servitude cruiser. It will take more skill to fix than their rusty astro-mech driod can handle. Serious structural damage. We're talking spacedock refit here.

So... where do you go to fix your ship? How much does it cost? how long does it take?

[Joey Jo Jo Jr]

Any of the major worlds in any of the freindly power bloks (CCW, UWW, Phase World, Altess and so on) that have major space ports/stations will most likely be willing and able to offer repairs.

The price and time will obviously vary with the kind of damage, but I think that structural damage will take weeks at best (an lots of cash, to jump the queue and spend extra time on it, maybe a bribe or to) but will most likely be months depending on their workload and the capabilities of their shipyards.

Hope that helps

[Gomen_Nagai]

AU Galaxy guide has rules for repairs of all sorts, and has prices for Repair kits, and so on. You can import this into Phase world games pretty much as is.


a quick rule of thum is repairs cost 10% x 2d6 per part, and 1 man hour per 10 mdc, 100 MDC per Hour If using a lab, 1000 MDC per hour if using a factory.

[Shorty Lickens]

This may sound insulting to someone who has been on the forums much longer than me, but........

Keep an eye on the math involved. If it costs more to repair than purchase a new one, let the PC's know before hand. Or change your numbers to make it more reasonable. I know in the real-world its possible to spend more money fixing things than buying them new, but for game balance purposes it seems improper.

You could just use the rules for repair in Mercenaries, keeping in mind that since the MDC is hundreds of time larger, the costs will be too. So it balances out. How much did it cost originally? I'm assuming that if the PC's ship cost them millions of credits, they should have enough money after a few missions to completely repair it.

[Braden Campbell]

Actually, this ship cost them nothing.

They found it mothballed deep in the station they are all living on, and "borrowed" it for a while to go do some investigations.

The ship is a light cruiser with heavier-than-normal beam weapons and Atless-enhanced torpedos. It is a one of a kind vessel; a prototype that was never quite finished.

cost to build it was about 8 billion credits.

And incidently, the Altess genius who built it is headed for the station now, assuming that his ship is still there in pristine condition. When he finds out that not only did the PC's repaint it black with flames on the sides, but have reduced it from 45,000 MDC to about 4,000...he's going to be pissed!

[Blue Eyes]

Hello Braden, interesting question
Well the campaigns i have been running in phaseworld have until recently only used spacecraft as a means of transport, my player characters seem to enjoy the planet settings the most. Except for the occasional space dangers and pirate encounters they havent been fighting much in space. Now however they have their own runner ship with an excellent pilot. Still their spacecraft (woth 30 mil UTC) has been taking a lot of punishment lately and is currently being repaired.
Advice to player characters: If you are going to loan the money to buy a spacecraft, say from the Naruni or other likeable people, dont just loan exactlt what u need to buy the spacecraft, thats like buying a Tomcat or F-16 without thinking that it needs maintenance, repairs, ammo and maybe upgrades. Get all the money u can get (i mean ur indebted anyway) and make sure to pay what u owe every month
As to the cost the sourcebook 1 has some suggestions as to how much it costs to repair different types of Body Armor (up to 7000 creds pr 10 MDC), Power Armor (8000 creds pr. 10 MDC) and Robot vehicles (40000 creds pr. 10 MDC) if i remember correctly starting on p.55
This might be a little expensive for the phaseworld setting since especially body armor and power armor is a lot cheaper there. So simply adjust. Spacecraft should be more expensive than robot vehicles in my opinion, so anywhere from 50000-75000 creds would do but i leave it up to you.
As for the time it depends on the size of the item being repaired.

Body and Power Armor: i would say hours, maybe 15-30 min pr 10 MDC
Robot Vehicles: 30-60 min pr 10 MDC repaired
Fighters: 1-2 hours pr 10 MDC repaired
Small spacecraft category: 2-4 hours pr 10 MDC repaired (days or weeks)
Starships: 4-6 hours pr 10 MDC repaired (weeks or months)

Remember that repairing a spaceship also takes a large crew of mechnics/engineers and probably droids to help. One must have the necessary facilities, the necessary spare parts and MDC alloys. And of course it takes successful skill rolls to actually finish the job.

U can make it so that the time schedule above is pr. each crew/team of spaceship mechanics, and the bigger the vessel the more crews can be working at the same time.

This is how i do it with some modifications here and there, i hope u can use it c ya

[Blue Eyes]

hey its just me again
just wanted to add that the prices above are of course what u will be forced to pay if u cannot repair ur vehicles, robots, power armor etc yourself.
I mean this probably shows how much every adventuring group needs a skilled operator operators, or any character with the sufficient skills to repair stuff can bargain for parts, MDC alloys and engine parts and get them at a much cheaper price (id say as low as one fifth the nowmal cost) and then make the repairs themselves.
Stacking up on spareparts and additional MDC alloys for emergency repairs is always a good idea. My characters have a spareparts "pool" of credits, meaning that they announce that on the following trip to the Core they buy 350000 credits woth of spare parts for their ship. This includes all the gizmos u need to fix ur engines or laser turrets if they are damaged. In addition they announce that they want to buy 500 MDC in additional alloys to bring on their ship and they bargain for the lowest price I must say that say if an engine or an entire laser turret is completely destroyed (0 MDC or less) they cannot "magically" have an additional engine on board - u get the point? only spare parts and MDC alloys for repairs.
Additionally i recommend investing in some robots/droids that can help do maintenance and repairs on the ship or other items - a good investment.

c ya

[KLM]

Hi there!

I think normally (up to the half of the MDC value)
the body armor should be the most expensive
to repair (it has to be strong and light), power
armor is around that too (thought it does not have to be
that light... Usually), and on the cheapest end,
are the battleships (we can mount armor a meter
thick, weight is not really a concern).

Now, when the armor is breached, and internal damage is
taken...
Costs begin to skyrocket.

And not just costs.

Repair time is also begins to grow.

Remember a fighter is usually disassembled and assembled
to fight during a night, but a battleship takes years to assemble.

Still, it was worth to raise the ships from the bottom
of Pearl, than to make new ones.

Also, do not compare starships to todays jet fighters
in the terms of maintenance. A fighter craft is supposed
to operate for a few days at most, then it is repaired.

Starships have to operate in an enviroment not unlike
the sails of our history. You will go for weeks, anything
can (and will) happen, you must be able to repair the ship
if it is still in one piece.

The anime Thundersub and the ST:Voyager shows
excellent ideas for it.

Carl Glebas idea of making starships from a cargo
container support my "we can tinker a spaceship"
theory (3 galaxies sourcebook).

I think they can add like 5-8000 MDC to their
ship with field repairs, maybe more if they can find
a floating wreck, or some scavenge-source.
And provided, they have the neccessary skills.
In the worst case scenario, the automated repair
systems (ranging from nanotech to the 3 gal
equivalent of Dyna Bots) can repair like 2-3000 MDC.

Still, the party is in trouble. I think their borrowed
ship has relatively few "secret" Altess parts, most
of them are gone by now, has to be replaced by
inferior "3 gal commercial grade" technology.
Also their ship IS a warship by every standard,
this means some unconvenient questions.

Me, as Trader Joe, can provide the following
offer:
- No questions asked
- The ship will be repaired, damaged equipment
is replaced by quality Naruni hardware
- The bill is around 5,6 billion UTC. You either
pay up front, or we can find you a suitable employment...
- Alternatively we buy the wre... ship, for like 4
billion credits, including the bonus for the new tech.
At least 60% of this amount must be in Naruni hardware.

(Now, the thing is, the players will spend some time
at a Naruni facility. Problem is, that our Altess
gizmoteer is probably a major NE stockholder...)

Adios
KLM

[Braden Campbell]

Actually, he is a foundign member of Hartical Combine. he has tuened against the Naruni for killing his friend, Lester M'Kree (see Avenger Poer armour).

he is going to take Naruni down, and his fellow Altess, if needs be.

[Blue Eyes]

KLM
ur theory or statement that you think body should be the most expensive to repair makes absolutely no sense to me, and starships might have meter thick hulls but runnerships and spacefighters dont. And of course i can compare a spacefighter to a tomcat or M-16, they need maintenance and repairs also.
I wonder what u think about my ideas, any comment or are they just dismissed?

[KLM]

Hi there!

KLM
ur theory or statement that you think body should be the most expensive to repair makes absolutely no sense to me, and starships might have meter thick hulls but runnerships and spacefighters dont. And of course i can compare a spacefighter to a tomcat or M-16, they need maintenance and repairs also.
I wonder what u think about my ideas, any comment or are they just dismissed?

Oh well...

First, if you design a body armor, your objectives are
the following:
- It has to be light enough, but strong enough, not too thick
and must have joints (adequately shielded).

As for power armor:
- Near the same as above BUT where you have to provide
say 100 MDC for a personal armor and make it withing
10 or so kg within, in the case of powered armor you have
like 30 to even 500 kg to provide like 250 to 700 MDC protection
(Ie, it does not have to be that light alloy)

As for giant robots:
- It does not have to be as thin as body/powered armor

As for tanks:
- It can be even more heavier, does not have to have
joints

etc.

And I assume that the more objectives are set,
a given thing is more expensive.
---

As for damage control/field repairs:
I took it natural, that spaceships DO have spare parts,
what is more, they likely will have some automated
repair system, ranging from nanotech (it is widespread
enough in the 3 galaxies, just look at the multitool)
to small (matchbox sized) drones, and up to androids.

Some repairs can be done with rerouting systems,
switching back safeties, patching holes - these do
not use up "onboard spare parts" (OSP).

One can manufacture parts onboard. In the case of
the Wolfen quatoria, the nanites will rebuild almost
every parts, and one can have a nanite based workshop
and a small fusion forge on board of a frigate, more
sophisticated facilities on bigger ships.
This method still does not use up OSP.

And of course if your phase drive goes out, you have to
exchange a block from it - OSP used. Same when a
10 meter by 10 meter armor plate goes away after
a solid hit.

The more longer ranged, the bigger the ship,
it is more likely to solve a problem without using
OSP....

-----
Now we have the question of fighters..

You wrote:

And of course i can compare a spacefighter to a tomcat or M-16, they need maintenance and repairs also.

I wrote:

Also, do not compare starships to todays jet fighters
in the terms of maintenance. A fighter craft is supposed
to operate for a few days at most, then it is repaired.

To put it clean: if you operate a starfighter or an atmospheric
jet fighter it is very similar - I agreed as you see. I mentioned
fighter, and meant both types.

But if you have a Kalasnikov, you do not need to maintain
it, just once or twice a year

Seriously, starfighters are "stressed" designs, endurance
between maintenances is low.

Runner or military ships do have to solve it on their own
resources, because they will have to, more often than not.

Also, if we have several centuries old Glitter Boys
in working conditions on RIFTS Earth, and the 3 gals
are more advanced, but they also have hundred years
old models, still considered fronline, it means to me, that
they have extensive onboard repair systems.

Your turn.

Adios
KLM

[Blue Eyes]

oki doki my turn

Well most spacefighters can operate in atmosphere as well . Im not necessarily talking maintenance and repairs as in hull repairs, it could be electrical systems, computer repair or upgrades, weapon system maintenance, radar tests, targeting sys tests u get the idea yes?

As for field repairs of course they can be made if u have someone onboard qualified to make the reapirs or if u have droids/robots etc. In my game the players dont automatically have spare parts or additional MDC alloys onboard that must be purchased seperately. I do allow players to jury-rig repairs (in an emergency if they do not have the necessary parts) if they have the skills just until safe port can be reached. As for nanotech repair systems or any of the other cool items u described it is fine by me if ur players automatically have such items installed in their ships, but thats not how i run things. I guess what i want to say is i think u "assume" to much, they arent mentioned anywhere in the books describing phaseworld spaceships and u borrow things from the wolfen quatoria etc and thats not how i do things. Players can have all those items installed but they are considered extras. The fact that the spacecrafts of phaseworld are generations old does not automatically mean they have onboard repair systems, they can fly u know - into docks and get maintenance and repairs

Again the Body Armor, Power Armor, Robot, fighter vehicle discussion. Im sorry but i can only repeat myself, it makes no sense. To me it is obvious that it is more difficult and more expensive to repair any power armor, spacecraft etc than any body armor! Im looking but in what u write i see no arguments - sorry. if i understand what ur saying correctly u think a body armor should be more expensive to repair than a power armor or spacecraft pr 10 MDC????
CAF heavy battle Armor cost: 80000 (new), Power Armor: 3- million (new) and spacecraft... well do the math.

And lets not forget Bradens original question, where can his characters get their ship repaired, how much does it cost and how long time does it take. Thats what i was trying to come up with a soluton for, same way i do it, take it and use it or dont - ur choice.

c ya

[KLM]

Hi there!

I need to point out again, that repairing
armor itself would be cheaper large vehicles
than body armor.

Once you begin to get "internal hits"
this will turn.

Remember the prices for 'borg armor?
Really cheap - because borg armor is
just MDC plates, bolted to an already
MDC structure.

In the case of a PA, say Silverhawk,
armor plates are the least expensive.

Life support, CG drive, anti matter reactor,
weapon systems, sensors, stealth system
and the shield disruptor (more or less in that
order) are responsible for the price.

Now, in the case of Branden's light cruiser,
if it was shaped like Star Trek Federation ships,
the saucer section is vaporised, the nacelles
are hit, most of the engineering section
is decompressed...

Weapon and sensory system are mostly gone too...

Shields? What shields?

I would say, if the ship has four reactors normally,
one has suffered a meltdown, two others are out of
order (one managed to eject its antimatter), the other
is draining power from the working fourth, just to
keep the am containment field working.

FTL system is working, but greatly underpowered.

So, with an 8 billion price tag to begin with,
a repair offer of 5 to 6 billion credits is viable,
but in this case most "above average" features
are gone (less firepower, shields and hull have
reduced MDC, etc).

The time... It takes a day or two for a skilled
operator/engineer to asses the ship and make
a repair project (if and when this engineer has
superhuman abilities in this field, like a techno
wizard, or a noro with above human IQ plus
telemechanics and total recall powers, a clairvoyence
does not hurt, also a Machine People engineer
would do).

Also the actual repairs would take like 100
man's hours per ton of the ship, of course
hundreds of personel and thousands of robots
can work on the hull (say 2-10 people per 10 tons
of the craft...).

Plus there is the "no questions asked" bonus

----
As for the automated repair systems, we should have
a separate topic, like "Standard ship equipment for
PW ships".

I really like on Kitsune's page when he stated, that
Kreeghor ships do not have crew compartments.


Adios
KLM

[KLM]

Hi there!

I was reading the 3 galaxies, the container
section, and it mentions, that the super can
can support life, and will not decompress
until 60% of it hull MDC is depleted.
And it is not specially designed for
life support.

Therefore I have to say, in the case of civilian
ships at least 70% of the hull is armor (maybe
60% armor, but 30% is cargo space - ie. the hull is
holed, but beside of decompression in a cargo bay,
and losing some cargo the ship is intact), and in
the case military craft, at least 80% is armor,
instead of the 50% I previously stated.

As an example, the "Tipical merchantman" of
Dim. book2: PW is an armed merchant vessel,
probably similar to the Liberty ships of WWII.

It has 5000 MDC in her main body.

So, as the first 3500 MDC is depleted, it means
only scorchmarks (some armor plates have to
be replaced, or just need to be bolted/welded back).
The most dangerous damage could be the
loss of some sensory system (antennae, dishes, etc).

Then as the next like 800 MDC is depleted,
(given, that the attackers are just hitting
the ship, without targetting engines or so)
it is most likely to hit the cargo bay.

And finally, as the last 700 MDC is being
depleted, will the ship lose weapon systems,
shield generators (thought these are probably
shut down earlier, but only needed recalibration and
cooling, or changing fuses at most), drive systems,
or the crew area starts to leak.

After the last MDC is gone, the reactor shuts down,
but there are still some section with working life
support (on battery power), but otherwise she is not
a starship anymore, it is a wreck.
The reactor is shut down, but the containment field
is still working.

At -500 half of the hull is blown to bits, the main
piece of wreck floats in its own debris field.

At minus -1000 MDC, the containment field collapses,
or maybe the last missile magazine blows up,
sending shrapnel and hard radiation in all area.
----------------------------------------------------------

Now, at Brandens ship, she is an attack vessel,
with 48.000 MDC.

The first 40.000 MDC is just armor, and some of
the sensors, but redundant systems compensate
the damage, no loss of performance.
The cost of repairs is (based on borg armor,
and of course IMO) is around 10 million UTC
for the armor, and d4*100.000 UTC for sensors
(based on the 100 cargoes in 3 gal book).
Throw in a 50% fee, if the armor was some
advance Altess alloy (or have its MDC reduced
by 10-20%).

But the ship lost a further 4000 MDC...

Now the ship has lost - say - half of its
weaponry and shields. Assuming she has
10 cannons, 5 of them are out of comission,
thought two cannons were just knocked out
by severed cables, and another one can be
rebuild from the remains of the other three.
See weapons costs in 3 galaxies book.
In case of main guns, it is like 200-300 million
UTC.

Also, 3 shield generators of the 6 are down,
but only one needs to be replaced. Price is
like shield value squared - if it had 4000 MDC
per side, is costs 16 million UTC, but since it was
variale, add 50% to the price.

Throw in various system damage with a
totaly price of like d6*10 million UTC.

So, total price for materials is around 350 million UTC.

And we have a work price of 100 work hours
per ship tons, which is like 20.000 (light cruiser)
and a 150 UTC per work hours (really cheap,
but most of the work is done with robots)
it is another 300 million UTC.

If the shipyard has like 20000 personnel working
on the ship at one give time (it is like 6000 men
in three shifts plus another 6-9000 people in
separate workshops, but working on dissassembled
parts, the rest are robots) it is 10.000 hours...
Around 4 days (plus two for damage assesment, more if
really alien design), with a total invoice of 650 million
UTC plus ammo, another 150 million for dock fee,
200 million for "no questions asked"...

1 billion finally (plus ammo).

At least it comes with a 3 moths guarantee,
a shakedown cruise (2 additional days for
fine-tuning) plus a luxory apartma for the crew
in a nearby hotel (since it is a PC party of
liek 4-6 characters).

But it is a really big shipyard, with lots of
aviable parts ready. I doubt that one finds
a shipbuilding on earth with more, than a
5 thousand people working in every
given moment.

Adios
KLM

[Braden Campbell]

Actually, I like this concept. If ships are 70% armour, let's say, then once that ship hits a "magic number" (equal to 30% of its original MDC) it is effectivly into Hit Points.

I think I will come up with a Severe Damage Table, to be used after the ship is reduced by 70%...so you start to loose weapons, propulsion, shield generators (wont recharge anymore) life support, gravity, ect.

I use the table found in the Phase World Source book...and the cool thing I find is that, in a space batttle, you are more likely to kill the crew than to destroy the ship.

But his might come in handy for those times when your PC's refuse to give up their fight against a Splugorth Servituded Mothership.

[KLM]

Hi there!

Actually, I like this concept. If ships are 70% armour, let's say, then once that ship hits a "magic number" (equal to 30% of its original MDC) it is effectivly into Hit Points.

I think I will come up with a Severe Damage Table, to be used after the ship is reduced by 70%...so you start to loose weapons, propulsion, shield generators (wont recharge anymore) life support, gravity, ect.

Do not forget cargo or vehicle (ie. PA, fighter, shuttle) bays...

"The TGE fighter swoops down on your ship and fires several
salvoes aiming at the already damaged armor plates... (roll)
150 MDC, just just feel a slight rocking on the bridge (roll)
you HAD a phalanx tank in your cargobay? You see it
spiralling away much to your and your attackers' amusement"

Adios
KLM

[Gomen_Nagai]

At least it comes with a 3 moths guarantee,
a shakedown cruise (2 additional days for
fine-tuning) plus a luxory apartma for the crew
in a nearby hotel (since it is a PC party of
liek 4-6 characters).

... just how much is a 3 moth guarantee supposed to last?
the life spans of 3 moths?

[KLM]

Hi there!

Errata :
A three moNth guarantee, with several pages
of small letters, stating when NE's liability ends.

Adios
KLM

[Gomen_Nagai]

makes me wonder what The marduk could do to the naruni if they stopped World Smashing and began Arms dealing..