The Rise of Magic vs. The Return of Magic

[Jeffrey W.]

The Chaos Earth books tell about the Third Plague (Magic) coming into the world in 2099.

To quote the last paragraph of "Rise of Magic" page 14: "A few short weeks after the Great Cataclysm, incidents of magic began to appear around the world. As noted, the first to discover magic have done so by accident."

Sounds to me as if the practice of magic is rediscovered early into the Great Cataclysm, and stays for a while. Page 18, third paragraph: "Most remain this way for the first 50-75 years (2149-2174 A.D.) of the ensuing Dark Age before they start to take on the more familiar mystic arts presented in Rifts."

To quote the third paragraph of "Federation of Magic" page 8: "Its (magic) rediscovery in the Dark Ages made the practice of magic new to the human experience. Never before was magic so accessible or powerful. (Guess they never knew about the Blue Zones!) Even today, the serious study and practice of magic on Rifts Earth (circa 105 P.A.) is roughly, only a hundred and fifty years old!"

Doing the math, that's approx. 2241 A.D. that Ley Line Walking becomes popular again! Blue Zone walking/drifting was out of style for 67-92 years? Truly, it must have been the Dark Ages!

So, little did Nostrous Dunscon know that all those Blue Zone Wizards/Line Wizards were using magic? Certainly not, but what to make of this?

My interpretation is that such inconsistencies between the gamebooks might have been accidental. It is doubtful that this was by design.

It makes sense that when the "Neemans" and others were eventually killed off, some types of magic would have been lost (examples: Chaos Wizards and D-Shifters).

I just think that the Dark Ages have gotten a little darker for now, and wonder if future books or supplements will ever clear it all up for us.

Jeffrey W.
(Rogue Scholar)

[The Beast]

BTS is set in "our" time, Rifts in the far future, and Chaos Earth at the end of this century.

In the old BTS we have magic users (don't know about new version, and I doubt I'll buy it). In Rifts people from Chaos Earth timeline and our timeline are rifted into this timeline (Victor Lazlo, General Smith, an entire Japanese city just to name a few).

So do the magic users we have today stop teaching their secrets and allow the art to die of before the Coming of the Rifts? Or is this another reason why I have those Nitpicker's books?

[Tricky]

I think the main sticking point for most gamers interested in CE is simply:

Which of Palladium's modern age games (Heroes Unlimited, BTS, N&Ss, REcon?) is the main reality?

There are elements of the coming of the rifts ine HU, BTS and even a little in N&Ss, with Lazlo, various supercorps and Chinese mystics.

But, in CE, all this is unknown; the idea that someone could fly without mechanical assistance is untihinkable to them, and magic is unkown. yet, those 'easter eggs' of rifts hints abound in the books.

[dataweaver]

The Chaos Earth history seems to imply a lot of high technology, but little if any known supernatural influence or superhuman powers; as such, I'd be OK using the technology from N&S and HU in a prominent way, while including the supernatural elements of N&S and BTS "behind the scenes". The only thing which I would outright remove would be the superpowered types from HU (which largely removes HU from the running).

[Jeffrey W.]

Is it just me, or did Tricky and Dataweaver wander completely away from the topic of this thread, and into the realm of technology and superheroes or what-not?

Of course, I respect everybody's opinions. I was just more curious about people's opinions to the subject I asked about however.

Perhaps somebody else would care to steer this thread back onto the topic I started?

Jeffrey W.

[glitterboy2098]

NEMA called it "the rise of magic", because, honestly, almost no one beleived in the real stuff before the cataclysm.

later it would come to be called "the return of magic" as atlantians and others who knew something of pre-rifts times started pointing out that it had always been there, just unnoticed.

so in short:

"the rise of magic"- called by uneducated hicks holding to pre-rifts concepts of the universe. also as called by the CS, who choose to promote the "magic is a new demonic force from the rifts" veiw for their own purposes.

"the return of magic"- called by parapsychologists and the like who actually know something about how the world worked......

[Sentinel]

Which of Palladium's modern age games (Heroes Unlimited, BTS, N&Ss, REcon?) is the main reality?

BtS is the most implied as the "past" relative to Rifts and Chaos Earth.
HU (Villains Unlimited, actually) make innuendoes to the Glitter Boy being used in the "present" by the Usurper, but HU has never been considered 'canon' past.
N&SS isn't fleshed out enough to be considered a "world", and I for one am happy with that.

The only thing which I would outright remove would be the superpowered types from HU (which largely removes HU from the running).

Given the presence in HU of Super-Soldiers (Juicers, Crazies, Headhunters), robot pilots, bionic characters, aliens, psychics, and magic users, HU is as sensible and usable as a campaign past for Chaos Earth as any book.

In the old BTS we have magic users (don't know about new version, and I doubt I'll buy it).

BtS will still have the Arcanist, but he will appear in the magic sourcebook as opposed to the main book.
I like BtS-2, and the additional fluff and flavor text is a nice touch.