Apok Conversion....

Unread post by **NMI** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 4:33 pm

If a wizard (say a Battle Magus), were to undergo the Apok conversion/transformation, would the Battle Magus lose their spell knowledge? I know under Apok it says you lose your skills, etc... but it doesnt specifically state "spells".

Would you allow a wizard to keep their spells?
Would you allow a mind mage/mind melter/burster/etc... to keep their psi-powers?

Would you allow other races to become Apoks (assuming the race is not immuned to transformations/etc...)?

Dr. Doom III · Unread post by **Dr. Doom III** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 4:43 pm

Entirely remade.

No skills, no spells, no nothing.

Wormwood Symbiotes only work on Humans so a non-human Apok is not possible.

cornholioprime · Sun Oct 23, 2005 5:52 pm

The Deific NMI wrote:If a wizard (say a Battle Magus), were to undergo the Apok conversion/transformation, would the Battle Magus lose their spell knowledge? I know under Apok it says you lose your skills, etc... but it doesnt specifically state "spells".

Would you allow a wizard to keep their spells?
Would you allow a mind mage/mind melter/burster/etc... to keep their psi-powers?

Would you allow other races to become Apoks (assuming the race is not immuned to transformations/etc...)?

All prior OCC Skills lost per Character Creation Rules in Rifts: Wormwood.

Unread post by **NMI** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 12:08 am

What about psi-powers? Psi powers are not "learned" skills.
(And CRAFT, I am just getting other peoples opinions on this. I am allowing your character, especially since it looks like it will be a one person game.)

Also DOOM 3.2.5. where in the Wormwood book (page reference) does it state that the sybiotes only work on humans?

Dr. Doom III · Mon Oct 24, 2005 12:53 pm

Hmmm.

Just assumed they had the same limitations as the Battle Saint and Orb as well as who can become MDC on Wormwood.

Unread post by **NMI** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:58 pm

Phalanx wrote:
The Deific NMI wrote:What about psi-powers? Psi powers are not "learned" skills.
(And CRAFT, I am just getting other peoples opinions on this. I am allowing your character, especially since it looks like it will be a one person game.)

Also DOOM 3.2.5. where in the Wormwood book (page reference) does it state that the sybiotes only work on humans?

I wouldn't allow it. The Apok is totally remade and gains priestly magic powers, along with the Demon Mask.

However, page 91 does say, about the symbiotes:

... they can be used by any human and most D-bees, especially humanoids, who visit Wormwood. However, Wormwood symbiotes do not work on supernatural beings or creatures of magic (dragons).

So a human who was a minor or perhaps major psi wouldnt be able to keep their psi-powers?

Is a Draconid from Phaseworld a Creature of Magic or Supernatural? Sure they have MDC and SN PS, but does that make them a supernatural creature?

Dr. Doom III · Mon Oct 24, 2005 11:44 pm

The Deific NMI wrote:Is a Draconid from Phaseworld a Creature of Magic or Supernatural? Sure they have MDC and SN PS, but does that make them a supernatural creature?

Yes.

cornholioprime · Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:20 am

Dr. Doom III wrote:
The Deific NMI wrote:Is a Draconid from Phaseworld a Creature of Magic or Supernatural? Sure they have MDC and SN PS, but does that make them a supernatural creature?

Yes.

Eh???

Draconids would most properly be quantified as Creatures of Magic rather than Supernatural Creatures......like Dragons or Faerie Folk.

Gomen_Nagai · Unread post by **Gomen_Nagai** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:07 am

an apok ex ley line walker might keep his old spells, at half strength, however.
or just retain the ley line powers they have ... but Wormwood has no leylines perse.

Sir_Spirit · Unread post by **Sir_Spirit** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:56 pm

The Deific NMI wrote:(And CRAFT, I am just getting other peoples opinions on this. I am allowing your character, especially since it looks like it will be a one person game.)

Could you make it a two person game?

Svartalf · Unread post by **Svartalf** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:54 am

About psi powers : those would be lost...

a) the Apok is being remade in the life vat, at least to the same extent, if not greater than a cosmo knight

b) the Apok is a Champion of Wormwood, and while magical in nature, the planet is known as psi hostile territory, so psionics possessed by the new Apok would probably not pass through.

In all matters, it's better to utterly disregard the previous history of the apok previous to his plunge in the life vat. It is a totally new being that emerges, better to treat it as such.

Unread post by **NMI** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 10:06 am

Sir_Spirit wrote:
The Deific NMI wrote:(And CRAFT, I am just getting other peoples opinions on this. I am allowing your character, especially since it looks like it will be a one person game.)

Could you make it a two person game?

Sure if you want to drive out to the Chicago Illinois area to game. This is In Real Life game. Face to Face, since me and CRAFT live near each other.

DBX · Unread post by **DBX** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 12:53 pm

one of the real strengths of the Apok is that it is a "clean skin" and

as arguably one of the best creations of Palladium, the Apok should be left as it is when used in other palladium games, short of changing it for game balance purposes.

Blue Eyes · Unread post by **Blue Eyes** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 9:07 am

Hello everyone
When i read something like can a battle magus become an Apok the first question that pops into my mind is, what is a battle magus doing on wormwood and why would he stay there? To me this just looks like another perfect example of a player character pushing it too far, trying to make his character even more powerful. Cmon people what is this? munchkin land? Battle Magus OCC is exclusive to Dweomer and found only on rifts earth and while some of them do travel the megaverse most of them dedicate their lives to protect their home. Then i wonder is this character a native of wormwood who travelled to earth and completed training as a battle magus or is it a "normal" SDC human? Well it must be a normal SDC human since no natives (humans) of wormwood has psionis powers!
A character has to qualify to becoming an Apok, and not in a good way, i mean we are talking about EVIL people, traitors, backstabbers, liars etc who joined the forces of darkness and now wish to reform themselves and takes the "chance" of jumping into the vat. Not all of them make it u know, the character/person has to be completely free of any doubts and be truly sorry for what they have done, and those that do make it are REBORN as a champion of wormwood which is described in the Apok OCC with those powers ONLY, no magic, no psionics, no freakin battle magus OCC bonuses, sharpshooting skills or crap like that! Thats my opinion on the matter.

And on the topic of Draconids from the phaseworld setting, they are creatures of magic it says so in line 4 of their description on p.35 in the phaseworld book...

Unread post by **NMI** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:49 pm

Yes, this setting that I will be GM'ing for CRAFT is of a unique design. Its going to involve portions of Wormwood, Palladium Fantasy, Heroes Unlimited, Splicers & NightSPAWN.

Since it is going to be a one (1) person game IRL, I am allowing a unique "bending" of the rules.

A) I am allowing the Draconid to be a Battle Magus as opposed to a regular Ley Line Walker

B) I am allowing the character to keep their former Battle Magus Spellls, abilities and unique training.

C) The transformation to Apok is working a little differently then in Wormwood. I cant tell you how or why without ruining certain elements of the game for CRAFT (feel free to PM me though).

D) The character is not psionic.

E) There are going to be some "surprises/ effects" of this unique transformation.

F) Palladium R0x0r

Gomen_Nagai · Unread post by **Gomen_Nagai** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 1:35 am

there is official support for having Wormwood Characters being modified by circumstances, as shown in the latest Merc Ops book where the apok there has to feed off others to feed his symbiotes.

Unread post by **NMI** » Sun Nov 06, 2005 8:52 pm

Gomen_Nagai wrote:there is official support for having Wormwood Characters being modified by circumstances, as shown in the latest Merc Ops book where the apok there has to feed off others to feed his symbiotes.

page number?

cornholioprime · Sun Nov 06, 2005 9:00 pm

The Deific NMI wrote:
Gomen_Nagai wrote:there is official support for having Wormwood Characters being modified by circumstances, as shown in the latest Merc Ops book where the apok there has to feed off others to feed his symbiotes.
page number?

I'm pretty sure that Gomen actually means the Rifts Adventure Book: Tolkeen and the Firetown Crisis.

Wherein you can find the Apok, Fortune, who does indeed need to drain PPE from other living beings in order to keep the Symbiotes on his person alive (he is the recipient of a unique, un-duplicatable Magick that allows him and his Symbiotes to maintain a mystic connection to Wormwood no matter where in the Megaverse he goes).

Tricky · Unread post by **Tricky** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 3:23 pm

IMHO, the trip from Battle Magus to Apok would be epic, maybe even the basis of a campaign, but as a base character concept it would be a stretch. But, if your in house rules allow for it, and the GM and player(s) are ok with it, then have at it.

Oh, the Apok symbiote thing, another route is a spell for specialized Shifters from one of the Rifter #15, called complete Symbiosis, which allows symbioites to live in conditions that they might not be able to exist in otherwise.

Unread post by **NMI** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 7:13 pm

Tricky wrote:Oh, the Apok symbiote thing, another route is a spell for specialized Shifters from one of the Rifter #15, called complete Symbiosis, which allows symbioites to live in conditions that they might not be able to exist in otherwise.

The one Rifter I dont have.

Damn you Mike A. for becoming a pain in the neck that people didnt want to hang out with. I should have disliked you before I let you borrow the book.

Tricky · Unread post by **Tricky** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 7:52 pm

Sorry to hear that.

The Apok was the first thing i thought of when I read that spell. Specificlly, that some one had an Apok character, and this might have been a way to keep him around after leaving Wormwood.

Vrykolas2k · Unread post by **Vrykolas2k** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 4:33 pm

Dr. Doom III wrote:Hmmm.

Just assumed they had the same limitations as the Battle Saint and Orb as well as who can become MDC on Wormwood.

That's what you get for assuming...

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