Is ther Sexism in the C.S?

[gaby]

Tell me What do you think?

[Jefffar]

I don't think there is sexism in the CS.

But I do think that there is a lot of pressure on the female population to increase the number of citizens.

[Sureshot]

I would say no imo. They are pretty much surronded by enemies on all sides. Every able bodied CS citizen is needed to protect the CS. Whether they be man or woman. Espcialy with the losses from the Tolkien conflict.

[Dustin Fireblade]

I think there is, after all it's still evident in the 21st century, why would it be so quick to die out in the 24th? I mean there's still enough of a gap between the male and female numbers in the CS military to say that Gender Roles still apply right? and gender roles are still a form of sexism aren't they?

Not neccesarly some gender roles are part of tradition and culture having nothing to do with sexism.

The Key word being "some" however, in American Culture which is the basic culture of origin of the CS, Gender Roles are more a part of sexism especially in modern post-industrial society, now if we were a hunter-gatherer, or Agrarian Society then I'd say our Gender roles are a result of tradition and culture rather than sexism

Don't forget the "Golden Age" wasn't just about tech advances. Society advanced as well.

But to gaby's question, no I'd say not. The CS needs everyone, man or woman, white or black (IIRC even 'Modern' Native Americans are part of the CS as well)

[The Galactus Kid]

Racism and sexism are pretty much nonexistant, in my opinion. Any segregation, persecution, or discrimination is focused on and centered around D-bees and magic users.

[Zer0 Kay]

It doesn't make sense that the women are allowed to go into combat. The CS realizing that they need to breed in order to expand would, not necessarily treat women as second class but may cater to them all as queens. However IF they truely were trying to up the populace the women would all be kept where it was safe and would essentially be baby machines. Now the infertile would probably be allowed to enter what ever service they wanted.

[Qev]

It doesn't make sense that the women are allowed to go into combat. The CS realizing that they need to breed in order to expand would, not necessarily treat women as second class but may cater to them all as queens. However IF they truely were trying to up the populace the women would all be kept where it was safe and would essentially be baby machines. Now the infertile would probably be allowed to enter what ever service they wanted.

I never have quite been able to wrap my head around this viewpoint. Isn't the exact opposite arrangement equally valid? I mean... it takes two sexes to reproduce, last time I checked. And besides, with proper medical support, a male can carry a child to term almost as well as a female...

Judging from the way things are written, it looks like gender-equality is one of the good things that still survive within the CS.

[Zer0 Kay]

It doesn't make sense that the women are allowed to go into combat. The CS realizing that they need to breed in order to expand would, not necessarily treat women as second class but may cater to them all as queens. However IF they truely were trying to up the populace the women would all be kept where it was safe and would essentially be baby machines. Now the infertile would probably be allowed to enter what ever service they wanted.

I never have quite been able to wrap my head around this viewpoint. Isn't the exact opposite arrangement equally valid? I mean... it takes two sexes to reproduce, last time I checked. And besides, with proper medical support, a male can carry a child to term almost as well as a female...

Judging from the way things are written, it looks like gender-equality is one of the good things that still survive within the CS.

Yes it does take two sexes to reproduce. However, one man can get a lot of women pregnant. When those children are born another man can get those same women pregnant giving a slightly broader genepool. So with two guys and 14 women you have 28 children minimum in two years (if everything goes right) while if it was 14 guys and 2 women you may have two satisfied women and 4 children in 2 years. Technically as long as they have sperm banks it only takes one sex and a turkey baster to reproduce. What is the proper medical support you speak of? How does a male carry a child to term? Besides that would take more work, effort and expenses than the females using what they have.

Just because women breed doesn't make them less. Depending on how it was handled they could be considered higher. The true saviors of humanity. Now if the CS had artificial wombs then there's no worries, they'd just have to harvest sperm and eggs from their citizens. Which may be more likely for them. That way they don't have to worry about population control, genetic abarations, parents hiding those genetic abarations and other stuff that may happen. However cloning is never mentioned nor genetic engineering to this extent so they likely rely on the natural means in order to expand their population.

Don't get me wrong I am personally all for equal rights for EVERYONE. I think if Any one want to fight in the trenches they should be able to. I know that women are in general able to sustain more G's then men so would make better pilots. There are ways that each sex is superior to the other but on average they equal out.

[The Galactus Kid]

And besides, with proper medical support, a male can carry a child to term almost as well as a female... Laugh Out Loud

??? Are you kidding? Can you validate this with scientific proof and not just a really bad Arnold Schwartzeneiger movie? As far as I know, this is not true. I could be wrong, and may even concede the point if shown evidence.

[Zer0 Kay]

And besides, with proper medical support, a male can carry a child to term almost as well as a female... Laugh Out Loud

??? Are you kidding? Can you validate this with scientific proof and not just a really bad Arnold Schwartzeneiger movie? As far as I know, this is not true. I could be wrong, and may even concede the point if shown evidence.

Even if it was possible it would add expense to an already expensive process and endanger a not just one valuable asset but three. It would be impractacle.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Is there sexism? Some.


on both sides of the fence

[Qev]

??? Are you kidding? Can you validate this with scientific proof and not just a really bad Arnold Schwartzeneiger movie? As far as I know, this is not true. I could be wrong, and may even concede the point if shown evidence.

It's never, ever been done (malepregnancy.com notwithstanding ). But given medical support, it's not impossible. Embryos can implant viably outside the uterus (it's called "extrauterine pregnancy"), and even develop to term. For a male to do something like this would require in vitro fertilization, surgical implantation, and most likely continuous hormone and immunosuppressant treatment. No-one said it would be easy.

Bear in mind, even when it occurs 'naturally' in females, the success rate of fetal development is only around 5%. But hey, this is Rifts.

[Zer0 Kay]

Is there sexism? Some.


on both sides of the fence

Which fence? Male Female or CS/Lazlo or some other one?

[Zer0 Kay]

??? Are you kidding? Can you validate this with scientific proof and not just a really bad Arnold Schwartzeneiger movie? As far as I know, this is not true. I could be wrong, and may even concede the point if shown evidence.

It's never, ever been done (malepregnancy.com notwithstanding ). But given medical support, it's not impossible. Embryos can implant viably outside the uterus (it's called "extrauterine pregnancy"), and even develop to term. For a male to do something like this would require in vitro fertilization, surgical implantation, and most likely continuous hormone and immunosuppressant treatment. No-one said it would be easy.

Bear in mind, even when it occurs 'naturally' in females, the success rate of fetal development is only around 5%. But hey, this is Rifts.

So how do they form the lining of the Uterus that the zygote embeds in? How does the male body feed nutrients into the umbilical cord?

[The Galactus Kid]

exactly. Thank you Zer0 Kay.

[Zer0 Kay]

male salmon pregnant? umm don't fish lay eggs?

The point is they put it in the fish. Just as they'd be putting it in the male human. The primary point is IT DOESN'T WORK.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Is there sexism? Some.


on both sides of the fence

Which fence? Male Female or CS/Lazlo or some other one?

all of the above

[Zer0 Kay]

Is there sexism? Some.


on both sides of the fence

Which fence? Male Female or CS/Lazlo or some other one?

all of the above

If it's all of the above then what is the 'some other one'?

Can you elaborate?

[Nekira Sudacne]

Is there sexism? Some.


on both sides of the fence

Which fence? Male Female or CS/Lazlo or some other one?

all of the above

If it's all of the above then what is the 'some other one'?

Can you elaborate?

I never said "Some other one" what are you talking about?

[sHaka]

I'd say the CS is sexist for sure. Not to the extent of degrading women as in extremist muslim states who treat women as chattels - as mentioned above, the CS needs strong, healthy women; they're a vital part of the CS ideology of human supremacy and growth, a key ingredient of their 'manifest destiny'.

BUT the CS is a facist state, and historically fascism has very strong misogynistic overtones, at the very least forcing women back into 'traditional' gender roles. Fascism emphasises the strength of men. The relationship between sexism and facism is very complex though - there's a good book by Martin Durham, 'Women and Fascism' that covers the topic quite well.

I can just imagine Prosek Jnr. pinching his female attache's arse and, in broad cockney, saying 'Get yer knickers on and make me a cuppa tea'.

[jedi078]

If the CS can create dog boys they could possibly create/clone normal humans if not genetically enhanced humans.

Maybe the C.S. even has something along the lines of the "Spartan program"

[Danger]

I think sexism and racism are human qualities and always will be. Rifts Earth is such a harsh place though, these qualities probably take a backseat. Manpower (no pun intended) in the CS would be an issue with wars on so many fronts. You couldn't really afford to reject anyone willing to fight. The CS may be based loosely on American ideals, but look at us now. In the past few years our own military has greatly increased the number of fields women can get into. I bet military culture reflects a certain level of sexism though. Anyone have stats on the male/female ratio of the CS? Put a group of men in the field with some women and you get catcalls and harassment.

[Kelorin]

A lot of this leads into another major CS hang-up - human purity.

The CS has at disposal the capacity to create nearly limitless numbers of perfect cloned human embryoes, fast-grown, and gene modified for better combat survivability, enhanced strength and reflexes, yet they focus on external augmentation, artificial contructs, AI systems, powered armor and cybernetics. They even used to have taboos about juicers, and limit gene modification to non-humans (dogboys etc.).

Given the choice, based on their previous track record, the CS would very much prefer to increase their population the 'old-fashioned' way. For this reason, like any good socialist state on a war footing, they will discourage women from joining the military, but not forbid it. They will have lots of propaganda promoting 'traditional' gender roles, and the 'vital' contribution women are uniquely suited to facilitate in the great CS war machine - babies.

Under the present circumstances, many of you are right, the CS would like every available able-bodied person to join the military. But unlike previous military states are not as dependent on simple manpower resources thanks to their advances in technology, which attempts to maximize the effectiveness of every combatant fielded.

And not only that, the CS is taking the long view. As much as they need able-bodied persons now, they will need them more in the future. The key to that future is babies. In the CS's mind natural babies, produced in the natural way. I'm not sure if I would call being concerned about the survival of the species sexism though.

[Zer0 Kay]

Is there sexism? Some.


on both sides of the fence

Which fence? Male Female or CS/Lazlo or some other one?

all of the above

If it's all of the above then what is the 'some other one'?

Can you elaborate?

I never said "Some other one" what are you talking about?

Yes you did. I asked "Which fence? Male Female or CS/Lazlo or some other one?"(bolded for emphasis) and you said "all of the above." All of the above includes 'some other one' It's like a test I once took that they graded me off on a question It was multiple choice... since telling everything would be test comprimise I'll just say A and B were both correct C said none of the above and D said all of the above well they wanted all of the above as the answer but I didn't pick that because that would have included option C none of the above which would have been wrong. The test makers should have put none of the above as option D and all of the above as option C. Lesson be careful what you all the above

[Zer0 Kay]

If the CS can create dog boys they could possibly create/clone normal humans if not genetically enhanced humans.

Maybe the C.S. even has something along the lines of the "Spartan program"

That's right they can clone dogs. However, even there they show that they're worried about expense since they still have a breeding program. Besides leaving human creation to Bradford is dangerous and I'm sure The Proseks know that. They haven't done genetically engineered humans yet. If they did it would be too close to 40K The Emperor and his Primearch Space Marines... oops I mean CS Marines

[Zer0 Kay]

I think sexism and racism are human qualities and always will be. Rifts Earth is such a harsh place though, these qualities probably take a backseat. Manpower (no pun intended) in the CS would be an issue with wars on so many fronts. You couldn't really afford to reject anyone willing to fight. The CS may be based loosely on American ideals, but look at us now. In the past few years our own military has greatly increased the number of fields women can get into. I bet military culture reflects a certain level of sexism though. Anyone have stats on the male/female ratio of the CS? Put a group of men in the field with some women and you get catcalls and harassment.

That may be another issue for opaque androginous armor. Hey everyone acts like women are all dimure and stuff how do you know that putting men in the field with women won't end up with catcalls the other way? Some women, maybe even more so in Rifts, are agressive and enjoy their sexuality instead of seeing it as something to restrain.

[Zer0 Kay]

A lot of this leads into another major CS hang-up - human purity.

The CS has at disposal the capacity to create nearly limitless numbers of perfect cloned human embryoes, fast-grown, and gene modified for better combat survivability, enhanced strength and reflexes, yet they focus on external augmentation, artificial contructs, AI systems, powered armor and cybernetics. They even used to have taboos about juicers, and limit gene modification to non-humans (dogboys etc.).

Given the choice, based on their previous track record, the CS would very much prefer to increase their population the 'old-fashioned' way. For this reason, like any good socialist state on a war footing, they will discourage women from joining the military, but not forbid it. They will have lots of propaganda promoting 'traditional' gender roles, and the 'vital' contribution women are uniquely suited to facilitate in the great CS war machine - babies.

Under the present circumstances, many of you are right, the CS would like every available able-bodied person to join the military. But unlike previous military states are not as dependent on simple manpower resources thanks to their advances in technology, which attempts to maximize the effectiveness of every combatant fielded.

And not only that, the CS is taking the long view. As much as they need able-bodied persons now, they will need them more in the future. The key to that future is babies. In the CS's mind natural babies, produced in the natural way. I'm not sure if I would call being concerned about the survival of the species sexism though.

:ok: They could always take any willing women into the military but if they get pregnant they are pulled from the lines. Now the question is do they want their parents to raise them? Do they do like they do with Dogboys? If someone doesn't want to raise a child do they have Orphanages? So either you end up with a career soldier getting off the line to have her baby and then going back on after recovery or being pulled until the child is raised to an acceptable age for boarding school. If the state deems the parents unworthy do they come in and take the child? I'd think a state that depends so much on humans would have excellent orphanages and a school system that of course didn't teach how to read.

[Zer0 Kay]

Being that it spawned from an advanced society, I doubt there is much.

Hopefully people are graded by the work they do and not by what they look like.

Yeah well since it spawned from an advanced society there should be reading and free thought.

[Zer0 Kay]

Being that it spawned from an advanced society, I doubt there is much.

Hopefully people are graded by the work they do and not by what they look like.

Yeah well since it spawned from an advanced society there should be reading and free thought.

They don't see anything wrong. If you never experienced something it's hard to understand what life is like with it.

It may have spawned from an advanced society but that doesn't mean that all the people are from that same society including the Proseks and the rest of the leadership. Reading and free thought dismissed as if you never had it you'd never know same can go for equality of sexes.

[Qev]

Im with Zero Kay. I think Qev is thinking of some sci journals a month or so back that reported a team of japanese scientists getting male salmon to be pregnant, what qev didnt read probably is that the blastocysts didnt survive past 7 days because the body could not support them.

No, I've known about this sort of thing for like, years.

A fertilized egg can implant against the abdominal lining, or even other organs. The problem isn't lack of nutrients to the embryo... it'll grow just fine. It's the damage the growing embryo does to the surrounding tissue (which isn't designed for this sort of thing), and possible problems with immune response, that cause these sorts of pregnancies to be almost invariably a bad thing.

But yeah, I don't see why anyone in the CS would bother having kids, what with their cloning and artificial support technologies developed to produce Dog Boys and whatnot. It'd be like, mail-order kids, or something.

[Zer0 Kay]

Im with Zero Kay. I think Qev is thinking of some sci journals a month or so back that reported a team of japanese scientists getting male salmon to be pregnant, what qev didnt read probably is that the blastocysts didnt survive past 7 days because the body could not support them.

No, I've known about this sort of thing for like, years.

A fertilized egg can implant against the abdominal lining, or even other organs. The problem isn't lack of nutrients to the embryo... it'll grow just fine. It's the damage the growing embryo does to the surrounding tissue (which isn't designed for this sort of thing), and possible problems with immune response, that cause these sorts of pregnancies to be almost invariably a bad thing.

But yeah, I don't see why anyone in the CS would bother having kids, what with their cloning and artificial support technologies developed to produce Dog Boys and whatnot. It'd be like, mail-order kids, or something.

Lets go over that again you joker. The CS doesn't even produce most of their dogboys that way because its too expensive. The issue with people though is it's removing part of their humanity.

[Kelorin]

Im with Zero Kay. I think Qev is thinking of some sci journals a month or so back that reported a team of japanese scientists getting male salmon to be pregnant, what qev didnt read probably is that the blastocysts didnt survive past 7 days because the body could not support them.

No, I've known about this sort of thing for like, years.

A fertilized egg can implant against the abdominal lining, or even other organs. The problem isn't lack of nutrients to the embryo... it'll grow just fine. It's the damage the growing embryo does to the surrounding tissue (which isn't designed for this sort of thing), and possible problems with immune response, that cause these sorts of pregnancies to be almost invariably a bad thing.

But yeah, I don't see why anyone in the CS would bother having kids, what with their cloning and artificial support technologies developed to produce Dog Boys and whatnot. It'd be like, mail-order kids, or something.

Take another look at my previous post. The CS is obsessed with the concept and fantasy of a perfect society of natural humans. They don't even feel entirely comfortable with Psi-Stalkers and Juicers, (yet they're perfectly OK with borgs - go figure).

It's not even a question of not having the facilities or the technical know-how for gene-splicing and cloning. They've got the tech to do it if they want to.

I think that the prevalent cultural attitude in the CS would inevitably lead to ostacization of unnaturally created humans, and that may go so far as including gene-splicing, in vitro fertilization, test-tube babies, or fast grown cloning.

Even Juicer and Crazy enhancement is demonized as being fool-hardy and dangerous. The CS propaganda machine has backed itself into a corner when it comes even to the possibility of genetically augmented humans.

That leaves 2 choices, rely a lot more on robotics (skelebots and the like), or produce greater numbers of babies. And we know how well relying on Skelebots worked out for them.

[Dead Boy]

Tell me What do you think?

The number one goal of the CS as a whole is not just the prosperity of Humanity, but its continued (re)growth as well. To that end I think there would be a little sexism in the Coalition's ranks because they wouldn't want to put potential-child-bearing women in harm's way. But at the same time they need every body they can get to fill out the ranks of their million man amry, so they can't be too discrimitory. So odds are the CS limits and discourages women from becoming infantry soldiers and puts those that wish to see combat in positions where they'd have greater protection, like in power armor and tanks.

[Pox]

wow...lots of theories, conjecture, and guesses but no one providing canon references...

CWC Page 36: 3 (possibly 4 with Col. LJ Klonicki having no assignable gender) of the Emporer's Executive Counsel are women...including Loni Kashbrook.

CWC Page 100: the Creation of the CA-3 body armor that was made a bit lighter, BUT CA-4 is available if the female soldier can handle it.

CWC Page 190+ plus many pages in Psyscape talking about PSI-Battlion/Division and it's CO Lt. Col Carol Black...would the CS give such a pet project to a woman if they were sexist?

On the other hand here is some counter-arguement to the above...

WB 22: Free Quebec, Page 87 (Glitter Girl write-up): (snip) Women play a more traditional role in the CS military, where the majority of female personnel hold positions in communications, medicine, and logistics as opposed to front-line combat troops or Special Operations.


Conclusion: I don't think there is sexism in the CS, but the need to propogate the race as a whole is in the minds of the both sexes and addressed....I would not call it sexist, just realistic.

that's just my opinion.

[cornholioprime]

male salmon pregnant? umm don't fish lay eggs?

Not all varieties.

Besides, Fish don't really get pregnant in the way you might think.

Think of it as more like "holding SEPARATELY VIABLE Lifeorms in a biological makeshift Pouch" rather than the Parent's Body actually bringing the young to term.

[cornholioprime]

I think there is, after all it's still evident in the 21st century, why would it be so quick to die out in the 24th? I mean there's still enough of a gap between the male and female numbers in the CS military to say that Gender Roles still apply right? and gender roles are still a form of sexism aren't they?

Not neccesarly some gender roles are part of tradition and culture having nothing to do with sexism.

The Key word being "some" however, in American Culture which is the basic culture of origin of the CS, [b]Gender Roles are more a part of sexism especially in modern post-industrial society,[/b] now if we were a hunter-gatherer, or Agrarian Society then I'd say our Gender roles are a result of tradition and culture rather than sexism

Willful decisions of the populace to make DISTINCTIONS between Male and Female are NOT what defines "sexism" unless you live in the world of Politically-Correct-Speak.

And by the way, ALL Cultures make distinctions between Male and Females, and virtually ALL of them have the Roles assigned to Male or Female based NOT on some secretly oppressive Scheme, but on good ol' Common Sense/Efficiency/Division of Labor.

Sheesh.

[cornholioprime]

I think sexism and racism are human qualities and always will be. Rifts Earth is such a harsh place though, these qualities probably take a backseat. Manpower (no pun intended) in the CS would be an issue with wars on so many fronts. You couldn't really afford to reject anyone willing to fight. The CS may be based loosely on American ideals, but look at us now. In the past few years our own military has greatly increased the number of fields women can get into. I bet military culture reflects a certain level of sexism though. Anyone have stats on the male/female ratio of the CS? Put a group of men in the field with some women and you get catcalls and harassment.

However old or young you may be, Sir Ramse, you have definitely picked up wisdom in your Travels.....

[Toc Rat]

I think there is, after all it's still evident in the 21st century, why would it be so quick to die out in the 24th? I mean there's still enough of a gap between the male and female numbers in the CS military to say that Gender Roles still apply right? and gender roles are still a form of sexism aren't they?

They got females in their infantry. If THAT isn't a classic "male" role I don't know what is.

I would say there is little to no "sexism" as we know it the CS. Their hate of all things none-human and magic unify them. When their enemies are inhuman, little things like a person being male or female really don't matter.

[Toc Rat]

Racism and sexism are pretty much nonexistant, in my opinion. Any segregation, persecution, or discrimination is focused on and centered around D-bees and magic users.

Dont forget the psychics! They have to get ID coded and are forbidden to enter some buisnesses simply because they are psychic.

[Toc Rat]

A lot of this leads into another major CS hang-up - human purity.

The CS has at disposal the capacity to create nearly limitless numbers of perfect cloned human embryoes, fast-grown, and gene modified for better combat survivability, enhanced strength and reflexes, yet they focus on external augmentation, artificial contructs, AI systems, powered armor and cybernetics. They even used to have taboos about juicers, and limit gene modification to non-humans (dogboys etc.).

Given the choice, based on their previous track record, the CS would very much prefer to increase their population the 'old-fashioned' way. For this reason, like any good socialist state on a war footing, they will discourage women from joining the military, but not forbid it. They will have lots of propaganda promoting 'traditional' gender roles, and the 'vital' contribution women are uniquely suited to facilitate in the great CS war machine - babies.

Under the present circumstances, many of you are right, the CS would like every available able-bodied person to join the military. But unlike previous military states are not as dependent on simple manpower resources thanks to their advances in technology, which attempts to maximize the effectiveness of every combatant fielded.

And not only that, the CS is taking the long view. As much as they need able-bodied persons now, they will need them more in the future. The key to that future is babies. In the CS's mind natural babies, produced in the natural way. I'm not sure if I would call being concerned about the survival of the species sexism though.

Good points and I agree that in a "real" world situation the CS would encourage females to stay in the fortress cities, work at factories to produce weapons for the war machine and increase the population. However I highly doubt KS took those things in to consideration when making Rifts and the CS all those years ago. Heck he didn't even consider where the CS gets all it's raw materials to produce 1 million plus SAMAS! Not to mention all their other equipment.

Remember KS designed the game (rifts) to be fun, simple and easy to learn for the 13-16 year old age group. Consider Starwars, George made the original three more for children then adults. That's why there are certain plot holes and such in it. That's also why the prequels were disapointing for many. Those children grew up and became adults but George wrote the new movies for children once again. He forgot that his fan base had grown up in the 20 years between sets. Don't get me wrong I love starwars but it clearly wasn't writen for someone on a college reading level.

[Library Ogre]

Here's a thought: In the upper classes, is traditional pregnancy still common?

Pregnancy is very hard on a woman, and the CS obviously has the medical technology to do it artificially quite well. I could easily see Lofty couples going in, having a simple procedure (egg/sperm extraction) and then having the child created in a lab. They would go by in the afternoons to visit their developing fetus, sing to it, read it stories, take pictures to show grandparents, but otherwise go on with their lives and have recreational, carefully sterile, sex. Any birth defects could be swiftly dealt with (either by aborting and starting again, or by genetic conditioning), you avoid problems that might come from the mother's activities (having too much to drink at a party, getting beaten by her husband), and you ensure that the next generation is what you want it to be... without genetically engineering, just selecting.

[Toc Rat]

Here's a thought: In the upper classes, is traditional pregnancy still common?

Pregnancy is very hard on a woman, and the CS obviously has the medical technology to do it artificially quite well. I could easily see Lofty couples going in, having a simple procedure (egg/sperm extraction) and then having the child created in a lab. They would go by in the afternoons to visit their developing fetus, sing to it, read it stories, take pictures to show grandparents, but otherwise go on with their lives and have recreational, carefully sterile, sex. Any birth defects could be swiftly dealt with (either by aborting and starting again, or by genetic conditioning), you avoid problems that might come from the mother's activities (having too much to drink at a party, getting beaten by her husband), and you ensure that the next generation is what you want it to be... without genetically engineering, just selecting.

While not on the topic of sexism, it is a interesting subject. With the advanced genetics tech they got from the Tex-Am complex, it would only surprise me if the Coalition's elite civilians didn't have the choice to correct any birth defects while the fetus is still developing. I don't know about having the fetus develope completely outside of the female but they would almost certainly use their tech to prevent sicle cell enemia, deafness, down's syndrome, color blindness, etc.

That is actually a subject that is rapidly becoming a real world issue. In the next 10 years the ability to correct such defects should be more widely available to people. Already people are fighting over the "right" to play god and many other old cliches from science fiction. Interestingtime to be alive!

[Library Ogre]

I highly doubt it see as one of the highest ranking generals in the CS Army is a woman. General Cashbrook I believe.

Bah. She's a token. Everyone knows the REAL work of the Army is done by old white men.

[Library Ogre]

While not on the topic of sexism, it is a interesting subject. With the advanced genetics tech they got from the Tex-Am complex, it would only surprise me if the Coalition's elite civilians didn't have the choice to correct any birth defects while the fetus is still developing. I don't know about having the fetus develope completely outside of the female but they would almost certainly use their tech to prevent sicle cell enemia, deafness, down's syndrome, color blindness, etc.

Ok, now let's get creative:

What does the CS consider a birth defect?

I think it's safe to assume that Bradford & Co. know a heck of a lot more about what individual genes do than we do. I'll bet they can clearly identify genes that will code for traits such as sickle cell, or manic depression, or even the cluster that will make someone more likely to be psychic... or a psi-nullifier... or magically potent.

Now, what if this is part of what Bradford is doing? He's not just cracking the human genome, but he's figuring out how all the blocks can fit together. He's, with or without Karl's permission, removing magical aptitude from the CS's elite's, and inserting a tendency to absorb or disrupt magic as part of basic "pre-natal care".

[Zer0 Kay]

Here's a thought: In the upper classes, is traditional pregnancy still common?

Pregnancy is very hard on a woman, and the CS obviously has the medical technology to do it artificially quite well. I could easily see Lofty couples going in, having a simple procedure (egg/sperm extraction) and then having the child created in a lab. They would go by in the afternoons to visit their developing fetus, sing to it, read it stories, take pictures to show grandparents, but otherwise go on with their lives and have recreational, carefully sterile, sex. Any birth defects could be swiftly dealt with (either by aborting and starting again, or by genetic conditioning), you avoid problems that might come from the mother's activities (having too much to drink at a party, getting beaten by her husband), and you ensure that the next generation is what you want it to be... without genetically engineering, just selecting.

There was a movie I had watched... I beleive it was also a book I read but anyway. It was post apocolyptic and many females had become sterile after the war. All of the viable females were used as serrogate mothers and had to carry the children of the rich. So maybe that is how they do it... the rich become pregnant and the poor volunteer in order to become 'taken care of' by carrying the child by transplant.

[Zer0 Kay]

I highly doubt it see as one of the highest ranking generals in the CS Army is a woman. General Cashbrook I believe.

Isn't that sweet so how many of the ruling body are female... you know the people who actually make the laws?

[Zer0 Kay]

I highly doubt it see as one of the highest ranking generals in the CS Army is a woman. General Cashbrook I believe.

Bah. She's a token. Everyone knows the REAL work of the Army is done by old white men.

Too many nasty comments to make about this statement and so little time...
Anyway, I can see Uncle Karl quite easily making posters promoting the traditional values of womanhood, kitchen, children, and church (or whatever passes as such in the CS) and writing up a absurd number of edicts that give incentives for large families. Hey, it worked for his idol Adolf Hitler...

:nh: and just like the three 'R's Reading, Riting and R-itmatic they'd call it the three 'K's (oh god... I just thought of how that could be taken so terribly bad. I am so sorry. I shall now self-flagellate self-:thwak:. I shall however finish my thought in the innocent facetious gesture towards the U.S. education system as it was intended. But now I feel so... so dirty) any way the 3 'K's of Karl. I must go bathe now

[Kalinda]

I highly doubt it see as one of the highest ranking generals in the CS Army is a woman. General Cashbrook I believe.

Bah. She's a token. Everyone knows the REAL work of the Army is done by old white men.

Too many nasty comments to make about this statement and so little time...
Anyway, I can see Uncle Karl quite easily making posters promoting the traditional values of womanhood, kitchen, children, and church (or whatever passes as such in the CS) and writing up a absurd number of edicts that give incentives for large families. Hey, it worked for his idol Adolf Hitler...

:nh: and just like the three 'R's Reading, Riting and R-itmatic they'd call it the three 'K's (oh god... I just thought of how that could be taken so terribly bad. I am so sorry. I shall now self-flagellate self-:thwak:. I shall however finish my thought in the innocent facetious gesture towards the U.S. education system as it was intended. But now I feel so... so dirty) any way the 3 'K's of Karl. I must go bathe now

"Kirche, Kueche, Kinder"

[Zer0 Kay]

I highly doubt it see as one of the highest ranking generals in the CS Army is a woman. General Cashbrook I believe.

Bah. She's a token. Everyone knows the REAL work of the Army is done by old white men.

Too many nasty comments to make about this statement and so little time...
Anyway, I can see Uncle Karl quite easily making posters promoting the traditional values of womanhood, kitchen, children, and church (or whatever passes as such in the CS) and writing up a absurd number of edicts that give incentives for large families. Hey, it worked for his idol Adolf Hitler...

:nh: and just like the three 'R's Reading, Riting and R-itmatic they'd call it the three 'K's (oh god... I just thought of how that could be taken so terribly bad. I am so sorry. I shall now self-flagellate self-:thwak:. I shall however finish my thought in the innocent facetious gesture towards the U.S. education system as it was intended. But now I feel so... so dirty) any way the 3 'K's of Karl. I must go bathe now

"Kirche, Kueche, Kinder"

Are you actually trying to make me feel better Kalinda? Thanks for not bitting me You do know I was refering to Kitchen, Khildren and Khurch (:lol: they seem even funnier written down) right.

[Kalinda]

I highly doubt it see as one of the highest ranking generals in the CS Army is a woman. General Cashbrook I believe.

Bah. She's a token. Everyone knows the REAL work of the Army is done by old white men.

Too many nasty comments to make about this statement and so little time...
Anyway, I can see Uncle Karl quite easily making posters promoting the traditional values of womanhood, kitchen, children, and church (or whatever passes as such in the CS) and writing up a absurd number of edicts that give incentives for large families. Hey, it worked for his idol Adolf Hitler...

:nh: and just like the three 'R's Reading, Riting and R-itmatic they'd call it the three 'K's (oh god... I just thought of how that could be taken so terribly bad. I am so sorry. I shall now self-flagellate self-:thwak:. I shall however finish my thought in the innocent facetious gesture towards the U.S. education system as it was intended. But now I feel so... so dirty) any way the 3 'K's of Karl. I must go bathe now

"Kirche, Kueche, Kinder"

Are you actually trying to make me feel better Kalinda? Thanks for not bitting me You do know I was refering to Kitchen, Khildren and Khurch (:lol: they seem even funnier written down) right.

Yes, I was trying to make you feel better, or at least show others that you're not a complete raving nutcase.(yeah yeah I know, lost cause...)

Mainly I thought it was a good link that showed the nazi attitude toward women and might be relevant to the thread.