Create Force Fields & Gravity

[Reagren Wright]

I've always wondered how gravity effects the major super ability of
Create Force Field? Its energy (solid energy I suppose) so does that mean
its effected by gravity? To be effected by gravity means mass and
density. The main reason I'm wondering is if you make a platform does it
float off the ground or rest on top of it. Suppost you're on water, does it
sink or float?

[Nekira Sudacne]

Force Feilds are not affected by gravity

[Killer Cyborg]

Force Feilds are not affected by gravity

Yup.

[cornholioprime]

Force Feilds are not affected by gravity

Yup.

Agreed.

Force Fields are Energy.

Energy isn't affected by Gravitonic Waves to any extent noticeable to human Perception -unless you're near a Black Hole or Neutron Star, of course......

[Qev]

Actually, this brings to mind a question I was going to ask about Create Force Field. Are fields created by this power always required to be stationary (relative to the Earth)? Or can they be 'attached' to a moving object? Eg. could one surround the top of their convertible car with a force-dome? Could they create a 'force tower shield' attached to their arm?

If they are required to be stationary relative to the ground, Create Force Field becomes a truly savage weapon if you're in a superpower battle on, say, a train, or even worse, a jetliner...

[Nekira Sudacne]

Actually, this brings to mind a question I was going to ask about Create Force Field. Are fields created by this power always required to be stationary (relative to the Earth)? Or can they be 'attached' to a moving object? Eg. could one surround the top of their convertible car with a force-dome? Could they create a 'force tower shield' attached to their arm?

If they are required to be stationary relative to the ground, Create Force Field becomes a truly savage weapon if you're in a superpower battle on, say, a train, or even worse, a jetliner...

the power is reletive the object your standing on. be it terra firma or a train.

[Sir_Spirit]

Force fields are made of force not energy.
but otherwise I agree with everyone.

[Qev]

the power is reletive the object your standing on. be it terra firma or a train.

How about the 'attach to arm' thing?

[Nekira Sudacne]

the power is reletive the object your standing on. be it terra firma or a train.

How about the 'attach to arm' thing?

I don't think so

but kinda remember, the planet as a whole is moving at thousands of miles a second. it it's NOT relative you'd be smacked into it instantly.


for that matter, Teleportation would put you out into space every time if it's not relative.

[Qev]

but kinda remember, the planet as a whole is moving at thousands of miles a second. it it's NOT relative you'd be smacked into it instantly.

for that matter, Teleportation would put you out into space every time if it's not relative.

[Jesterzzn]

So to sum up everything everyone has said:

"Force fields are effected by gravity except when the effect would give the user a gameplay crippling positive or negative advantage."

[Qev]

So to sum up everything everyone has said:

"Force fields are effected by gravity except when the effect would give the user a gameplay crippling positive or negative advantage."

Er, rather, force fields are not effected by gravity, but in most cases remain stationary relative to the user's frame of reference.

[Glistam]

Actually, this brings to mind a question I was going to ask about Create Force Field. Are fields created by this power always required to be stationary (relative to the Earth)? Or can they be 'attached' to a moving object? Eg. could one surround the top of their convertible car with a force-dome? Could they create a 'force tower shield' attached to their arm?

If they are required to be stationary relative to the ground, Create Force Field becomes a truly savage weapon if you're in a superpower battle on, say, a train, or even worse, a jetliner...

the power is reletive the object your standing on. be it terra firma or a train.

The question of course arises then: what happens if the person gets knocked off?

The force field would continue to exist in it's place until it went out of your maximum range or you dispelled it. It would maintain it's relativity in respect to where you were when it was created, unless it was created around you. In that case, you are it's what it's relative to.

[Sir_Spirit]

I can't see why this post hasn't been moved to the HU forum, as it clearly belongs there.
I will ask a mod to due so.

Edit:thanx! her black wings!

[Sir_Spirit]

Force fields are made of force not energy.
but otherwise I agree with everyone.

Force = Mass times Acceleration

Not exactly something that you can make something of I liked the example of it being made of kentic energy.
[/b]

Alright smarty pants, Energy-force times Distance moved.
In your words"Not exactly something that you can make something of"

[NMI]

Well since you can create a body field around yourself -

Speed and Movement are not impaired.

This tells me that

• Force Fields can move.
• That creating a field for the roof of a convertible while/ during movement would be possible.

[Reagren Wright]

So is the concenus with everyone that force fields are not effected by
gravity, and that if you made a flat platform that it would hover in the air
or float on water? Now mind you, I'm not saying their flying platforms.
They only hover, say a foot or a few inches off the ground.

[znbrtn]

So is the concenus with everyone that force fields are not effected by
gravity, and that if you made a flat platform that it would hover in the air
or float on water? Now mind you, I'm not saying their flying platforms.
They only hover, say a foot or a few inches off the ground.

they stay where you put them. simple as that.

[Sentinel]

If you were to fall off a cliff, and put a force field around you, you would still continue to fall.
Yes, to an extent, Gravity affects you.
It'll float on water, but if it's just a platform, then it can also be capsized.

[Qev]

If you were to fall off a cliff, and put a force field around you, you would still continue to fall.

So... could you use the force field to break your fall, ie. a platform to land on (preferrably before you got moving too fast)?

It'll float on water, but if it's just a platform, then it can also be capsized.

I always assumed force fields were 'fixed' in their frame of reference (although the frame of reference itself may be moving), which would imply a force field couldn't be 'capsized'... athough it wouldn't actually be floating, either. No? Yes? Help?

Can the force field creator choose the frame of reference they want to use?

[Sir_Spirit]

Their is a minor super ability in PU1 called Flying force disk.
IT allow you to create a mobile disk of force.

[NMI]

I would allow the Force Fields to be moved, at a maximum speed equal to the users M.E. Of course I also base the max strength of the fields off of the users M.E. as well.

[Sentinel]

If you were to fall off a cliff, and put a force field around you, you would still continue to fall.

So... could you use the force field to break your fall, ie. a platform to land on (preferrably before you got moving too fast)?

You'd need to shape it into a column, but I could see that working.

It'll float on water, but if it's just a platform, then it can also be capsized.

I always assumed force fields were 'fixed' in their frame of reference (although the frame of reference itself may be moving), which would imply a force field couldn't be 'capsized'... athough it wouldn't actually be floating, either. No? Yes? Help?

If you made a force field platform (several inches thick, and circular), I would think it would float (water surface tension being what it is), but if the platform were struck from below, or if the seas were stormy or extremely rough, then the force field could be capsized as any vessel might be. It's hard to be 'fixed' to a surface like water.

Can the force field creator choose the frame of reference they want to use?

I would say it depends in part on the configuration of the field itself, and the surface they are attempting to anchor to, as well as any factor of motion (if any).
Anchoring to the top of a moving train: no problem. But, if the train is breaking into tiny pieces beneath you, then you'd have problems.

[Qev]

If you were to fall off a cliff, and put a force field around you, you would still continue to fall.

So... could you use the force field to break your fall, ie. a platform to land on (preferrably before you got moving too fast)?

You'd need to shape it into a column, but I could see that working.

Why a column? I meant, just like a fixed, flat surface, 'hovering' in the air to catch you... ie. making the platform's position fixed relative to the surface of the Earth.

It'll float on water, but if it's just a platform, then it can also be capsized.

I always assumed force fields were 'fixed' in their frame of reference (although the frame of reference itself may be moving), which would imply a force field couldn't be 'capsized'... athough it wouldn't actually be floating, either. No? Yes? Help?

If you made a force field platform (several inches thick, and circular), I would think it would float (water surface tension being what it is), but if the platform were struck from below, or if the seas were stormy or extremely rough, then the force field could be capsized as any vessel might be. It's hard to be 'fixed' to a surface like water.

Can the force field creator choose the frame of reference they want to use?

I would say it depends in part on the configuration of the field itself, and the surface they are attempting to anchor to, as well as any factor of motion (if any).
Anchoring to the top of a moving train: no problem. But, if the train is breaking into tiny pieces beneath you, then you'd have problems.

In terms of the 'boat' force field... what frame of reference is it being created in? I imagine that would have to be relative to the creator, not the Earth, otherwise it would just sit there, fixed, while waves beat against it.

If you can make a force field that's in a fixed position relative to a (moving) person, can you create a force field parachute, by throwing a half-dome above them with a hole in the middle?

I think I need some aspirin.

[Sentinel]

If you were to fall off a cliff, and put a force field around you, you would still continue to fall.

So... could you use the force field to break your fall, ie. a platform to land on (preferrably before you got moving too fast)?

You'd need to shape it into a column, but I could see that working.

Why a column? I meant, just like a fixed, flat surface, 'hovering' in the air to catch you... ie. making the platform's position fixed relative to the surface of the Earth.

Well, with a column, you'd actually form it from the top down, so that the bottom struck the Earth, without overly jarring you on top. Force Fields can't really hover on their own, otherwise they would provide a free form of levitation. This is why I suggest the Column: it's still a form of levitation in a way, but it makes sense.

It'll float on water, but if it's just a platform, then it can also be capsized.

I always assumed force fields were 'fixed' in their frame of reference (although the frame of reference itself may be moving), which would imply a force field couldn't be 'capsized'... athough it wouldn't actually be floating, either. No? Yes? Help?

If you made a force field platform (several inches thick, and circular), I would think it would float (water surface tension being what it is), but if the platform were struck from below, or if the seas were stormy or extremely rough, then the force field could be capsized as any vessel might be. It's hard to be 'fixed' to a surface like water.

Can the force field creator choose the frame of reference they want to use?

I would say it depends in part on the configuration of the field itself, and the surface they are attempting to anchor to, as well as any factor of motion (if any).
Anchoring to the top of a moving train: no problem. But, if the train is breaking into tiny pieces beneath you, then you'd have problems.

In terms of the 'boat' force field... what frame of reference is it being created in? I imagine that would have to be relative to the creator, not the Earth, otherwise it would just sit there, fixed, while waves beat against it.

Well, the creator (I imagine) would be at the center of the fields' diameter.
Its' overall stability however is realative to what it's resting on: the field doen't come with an inbuilt Immovability power.

If you can make a force field that's in a fixed position relative to a (moving) person, can you create a force field parachute, by throwing a half-dome above them with a hole in the middle?

You could do that I suppose, but what is it attached to? Or, how are you attaching your self to the field?
On the other hand, see the power Create Force Constructs in PUI.

I think I need some aspirin.

I have some here. You're welcome to them.

[Qev]

Well, the creator (I imagine) would be at the center of the fields' diameter.
Its' overall stability however is realative to what it's resting on: the field doen't come with an inbuilt Immovability power.

I always figured force fields would be stationary in their frame of reference, ie. immovable. Otherwise, you couldn't say, block villains in a hallway or stop an escaping car, or anything like that; they'd just push the field aside. Nor could you protect someone from an explosion, as the force field would simply slam into them anyway.

This is how I'm approaching the 'falling off a cliff' thing, as well. Just create a stationary platform that stops you from falling. It couldn't really be used as levitation, per se, since the force field would be stationary.

If you can make a force field that's in a fixed position relative to a (moving) person, can you create a force field parachute, by throwing a half-dome above them with a hole in the middle?

You could do that I suppose, but what is it attached to? Or, how are you attaching your self to the field?
On the other hand, see the power Create Force Constructs in PUI.

That's kind of a weird paradox, isn't it. The force field would have to stay in its relative position to you, so it falls as fast as you do. But it would also push against the air like any object its size, which would slow it down... uh... so it generates a de facto force on you?

[Sentinel]

I always figured force fields would be stationary in their frame of reference, ie. immovable. Otherwise, you couldn't say, block villains in a hallway or stop an escaping car, or anything like that; they'd just push the field aside.

In these cases the field would be fixed to the ground, and thus as immovable as it can be depending on the force exerted against it (a Supernatural PS of 500 is probably going to do enough to move the field or destroy it outright).
But, when falling off the cliff, the field is relative to the caster, who is falling. The field provides no flight or levitation ability, so the caster keeps falling, although he is wrapped in a protective bubble.

If you were on top of a speeding vehicle and created a force field, it would be anchored to the top of the vehicle in a relative position to the caster. Thus, it moves as you do.

Remember, all a force field really is suposed to do is provide an invisible form of protection: it doesn't defy gravity, or alter inertia.
Making specific shapes/items is a function of a separate power (Create Force Constructs).

you can stop from falling(do it pretty quickly or you would crash into it..force fields are not soft).

I addressed the 'stopping yourself from falling' point earlier, but in addition, there have been numerous examples in comics of people who created force cushions to break the falls of partners, or victims and by-standers, etc. The description of the power gives it's maximum SDC in resistance and protection: I've always taken the stance that the caster can use less SDC than maximum for cushiony effects.

[Reagren Wright]

Well if you made a force sphere on water it had to float because the sphere if full of air.
If it sinks that means the "force" has mass and
density to it. I guess the best way to solve this answer is to define what
force energy is. Energy that mimics matter or solid energy with all the
properties of normal energy (fire, light, and electricity) which means
impervious to gravity (unless you count a black hole).
to gravity

[Sentinel]

Well if you made a force sphere on water it had to float because the sphere if full of air.
If it sinks that means the "force" has mass and
density to it. I guess the best way to solve this answer is to define what
force energy is. Energy that mimics matter or solid energy with all the
properties of normal energy (fire, light, and electricity) which means
impervious to gravity (unless you count a black hole).
to gravity

The surface tension of water can support dense materials, so I would imagine a force field raft would float apart from being forcibly struck, or rough waters.
I would imagine the sphere would float because of the trapped air.
Moreover, if one were to use the force sphere as a means to return to surface, I would guess the pressure changes might not affect those within the sphere, although they would act as an "attack" on the SDC of the sphere. Unlike a bathyscape or a submarine, I don't see the enviornment in the force field changing (it keeps out heat attacks, cold attacks, etc, so why should changes in the air affect it?)

[Qev]

In these cases the field would be fixed to the ground, and thus as immovable as it can be depending on the force exerted against it (a Supernatural PS of 500 is probably going to do enough to move the field or destroy it outright).

But... why is it fixed to the ground? You can't embed it in the ground, otherwise you could just as easily englobe an enemy's head, and thus sever it from his body.

But, when falling off the cliff, the field is relative to the caster, who is falling. The field provides no flight or levitation ability, so the caster keeps falling, although he is wrapped in a protective bubble.

Well... assuming you can 'afix' the force field to something, why not to the cliff-face, like a diving board? This, of course, conjures images of Looney Tunes...

Remember, all a force field really is suposed to do is provide an invisible form of protection: it doesn't defy gravity, or alter inertia.
Making specific shapes/items is a function of a separate power (Create Force Constructs).

I'd personally allow simple constructs with Create Force Field... like a set of stairs. But again, I've always figured a force field object would simply 'stay where you put it', and not fall under gravity or get pushed out of the way of things. Otherwise, being massless, it would provide little useful protection.

I guess in a lot of superhero comics and stories, it's very much 'writer's fiat' how force fields behave in terms of frames of reference. Maybe this is one of those GM's discression type of things.

On a complete tangent, it's silly that you can't make a motor with Create Force Constructs; an electric motor has like, one moving part.

I addressed the 'stopping yourself from falling' point earlier, but in addition, there have been numerous examples in comics of people who created force cushions to break the falls of partners, or victims and by-standers, etc. The description of the power gives it's maximum SDC in resistance and protection: I've always taken the stance that the caster can use less SDC than maximum for cushiony effects.

I never thought of that... force fields with different 'textures'. So... you could make flexible force fields? That could make for some amusing applications, considering they're nominally invisible...

I wonder... has anyone ever discouraged pursuers with a few hundred invisible, force field ball bearings? Or worse, invisible, force field caltrops?

trying to apply logic to the force fields causes lots of problems

I know. It's my nature to cause these sorts of problems, I guess. I'm too curious.

[Sentinel]

In these cases the field would be fixed to the ground, and thus as immovable as it can be depending on the force exerted against it (a Supernatural PS of 500 is probably going to do enough to move the field or destroy it outright).

But... why is it fixed to the ground? You can't embed it in the ground, otherwise you could just as easily englobe an enemy's head, and thus sever it from his body.

It anchors to the surface of the ground. If I remember the description right, the field is immobile as either a wall or as a dome.
While you can't sever a persons' head, you can cut off their oxygen with a small bubble. Try this one: put a small bubble around the head, then hammer them in the gut with a force ball to knock the wind out of them.

But, when falling off the cliff, the field is relative to the caster, who is falling. The field provides no flight or levitation ability, so the caster keeps falling, although he is wrapped in a protective bubble.

Well... assuming you can 'afix' the force field to something, why not to the cliff-face, like a diving board? This, of course, conjures images of Looney Tunes...
No one said how close the cliff face was. I'd allow that attempt, but the caster would have to make a roll to see if he were successful: you still run the risk of messing up, and slamming into your own platform too hard.

Remember, all a force field really is suposed to do is provide an invisible form of protection: it doesn't defy gravity, or alter inertia.
Making specific shapes/items is a function of a separate power (Create Force Constructs).

I'd personally allow simple constructs with Create Force Field... like a set of stairs. But again, I've always figured a force field object would simply 'stay where you put it', and not fall under gravity or get pushed out of the way of things. Otherwise, being massless, it would provide little useful protection.

Under most conditions, I'd agree with you, but when there is nothing upon which to stand, nothing about force field offers flight.
I have run situations in the past, where a caster has used a full bubble (as opposed to a dome) their opponents have been able to roll them into some new hazard.

I guess in a lot of superhero comics and stories, it's very much 'writer's fiat' how force fields behave in terms of frames of reference. Maybe this is one of those GM's discression type of things.

On a complete tangent, it's silly that you can't make a motor with Create Force Constructs; an electric motor has like, one moving part.

I addressed the 'stopping yourself from falling' point earlier, but in addition, there have been numerous examples in comics of people who created force cushions to break the falls of partners, or victims and by-standers, etc. The description of the power gives it's maximum SDC in resistance and protection: I've always taken the stance that the caster can use less SDC than maximum for cushiony effects.

I never thought of that... force fields with different 'textures'. So... you could make flexible force fields? That could make for some amusing applications, considering they're nominally invisible...

Sure. It's like Sonic Running: while you can run at the speed of sound, nothing says you can't run slower. So, while your force field might have a maximum of 900 SDC (or, whatever your maximum is), nothing says it can't be less than that if the caster so chooses to make it weaker.

I wonder... has anyone ever discouraged pursuers with a few hundred invisible, force field ball bearings? Or worse, invisible, force field caltrops?
Ball bearings, yes. I've never done caltrops. Sudden protrusions to act as a 'clothesline' maneuver as well.

trying to apply logic to the force fields causes lots of problems

I know. It's my nature to cause these sorts of problems, I guess. I'm too curious.

It kills cats you know.

[Kalinda]

Fortunately Qev is a dog, it only gives him headaches...

[Sentinel]

Fortunately Qev is a dog,

Must be why I like him so much.

[Qev]

Fortunately Qev is a dog,

Must be why I like him so much.

My poor cat... I'm always chasing her...

[Kalinda]

Fortunately Qev is a dog,

Must be why I like him so much.

My poor cat... I'm always chasing her...

Me too. (My cat I mean, it would be very odd for me to chase your cat...)

[Qev]

Fortunately Qev is a dog,

Must be why I like him so much.

My poor cat... I'm always chasing her...

Me too. (My cat I mean, it would be very odd for me to chase your cat...)

Hey, maybe together, we could actually catch her.

[Sentinel]

Fortunately Qev is a dog,

Must be why I like him so much.

My poor cat... I'm always chasing her...

Must be the dawg in you.
Bow-wow-wow-dibee-yo-dibee-yay...