Wanted to get your input on MMA

[Nekira Sudacne]

Very much unbalanced as the attacks pre melee and bonuses would put any other martial art to shame...

[Nekira Sudacne]

Very much unbalanced as the attacks pre melee and bonuses would put any other martial art to shame...

What if you combined them in the same manner as one combines HWARANG-DO and Moo Gi Gong. But you picking wich aspects you pull from the two quicky forms.

that mixture is a bit different in that Moo Gi Gong more or less sucks on it's own.

I mean yea, using anything as a weapon is cool--but the bonuses suck on it's own.

[Guest]

If you're taking concepts from two styles and combining them, that would work. If you're taking the bonuses and attacks of two styles and adding them together, no, it won't work.

[Sentinel]

I recommend choosing two composite styles (something like Yu Sool, which has strikes, kicks, grappling, and esoteric abilities like Chi powers).
There are already existing styles that incorporate diverse elements of combat styles.
Other good styles include Sankukai Karate (good strikes, combination moves and advanced defenses, and automatic holds), Jujitsu, Shaolin Kung Fu, Kyokushinkai Karate, and Chin'Na.

[Sentinel]

I recommend choosing two composite styles (something like Yu Sool, which has strikes, kicks, grappling, and esoteric abilities like Chi powers).
There are already existing styles that incorporate diverse elements of combat styles.
Other good styles include Sankukai Karate (good strikes, combination moves and advanced defenses, and automatic holds), Jujutsu, Shaolin Kung Fu, Kyokushinkai Karate, and Chin'Na.

Yeah I know what your saying but it isn't exactly what I was looking for but thank you. On a side note If I am going to pick two arts I like to pick Choy-Li-Fu and Ch'in-Na if I am playing a charater that only gets one art I have always liked Drunken Style(although its a bit over powered) if I am playing with a group that I know that leans towards munchins I will usally use Drunken with Jujitsu. I find that that these combinations to be worth switching from one art to another between each round.

Try Drunken Style and Monkey Style as a combination.
Tae Kwon Do and Yu Sool: trade one Martial Art Power for a skill program.
I liked a character I built with Kyokushinkai and Jujutsu.

If you have HUII, look over the Physical Training character: for low-powered games, I was given the suggestion of dropping the Superhuman PS for a PS bonus instead.

[Sentinel]

I recommend choosing two composite styles (something like Yu Sool, which has strikes, kicks, grappling, and esoteric abilities like Chi powers).
There are already existing styles that incorporate diverse elements of combat styles.
Other good styles include Sankukai Karate (good strikes, combination moves and advanced defenses, and automatic holds), Jujutsu, Shaolin Kung Fu, Kyokushinkai Karate, and Chin'Na.

Yeah I know what your saying but it isn't exactly what I was looking for but thank you. On a side note If I am going to pick two arts I like to pick Choy-Li-Fu and Ch'in-Na if I am playing a charater that only gets one art I have always liked Drunken Style(although its a bit over powered) if I am playing with a group that I know that leans towards munchins I will usally use Drunken with Jujitsu. I find that that these combinations to be worth switching from one art to another between each round.

Try Drunken Style and Monkey Style as a combination.
Tae Kwon Do and Yu Sool: trade one Martial Art Power for a skill program.
I liked a character I built with Kyokushinkai and Jujutsu.

If you have HUII, look over the Physical Training character: for low-powered games, I was given the suggestion of dropping the Superhuman PS for a PS bonus instead.

You know that just might work maybe by throwing in one or two external martial art powers it would probally balance out fine.
If you have rifter #3 I find Kodokan Judo or Wrestling to be very nice 2nd M/As Wrestling being best if you can use your primary martial art to start a hold or choke then transition into wrestling on your next turn.
I am in the minority of those who doesn't use the martial arts presented in the Rifter (not all of my players get the Rifter, and I don't get every issue myself). While there is a definite need for more variety of styles, the Rifter styles tended to be a little over-balanced compared to the Canon material of N&SS and Mystic China.
If you can't tell I enjoy grappling martial arts. While grappling really isn't that great in a "Street Fighting". But where it is triumphant is hand to hand one on one fighting(how often do you really run into that in a campaing?)
I do a lot of one-on-one combats in my campaigns.
I like grappling arts as well (although my favorite style of cinematic martial arts is high speed kicking arts like TKD).
NPCs and GMPCs of mine made use of Chin'Na, Jujutsu (a favorite for Super Soldiers in my HUII games), and Preying Mantis.
I love to use Drunken Style at the begining of a fight to Stagger giving you initiative, then using a tackle, then if you still have an attack to go into a body hold. Next round switch to wrestling move to a lock and start using grasping hand. I also in this case like to use drunken style to take "Art of escape" so that if the tables get turned you can get out of it with out to much trouble.

Pretty smart tactics.

[Sentinel]

Chin'Na, Jujutsu (a favorite for Super Soldiers in my HUII games), and Preying Mantis

Now thats a brutal combination. I have caught a one GM way off gaurd using Druken Style and Chin'Na and for mentiond tactics. It was a typical you have particapate in this tournament style adventures and the big bad ass to be beaten was a slightly higher level Kickboxer that had levels in Jujutsu. Well it was quite funny indeed.

I have had combats against martial artists (in game) with Muay Thai, and beaten them with Yu Sool. They would find their power punches blocked or tied up in Automatic Holds, they lost many actions and initiatives in Automatic Flip/Throw, and Paralysis Attack ruins many peoples days.

[Guest]

Yes this is why Muay Thai in our house is not a 2 form, form its already exclusive wich should count for something. There has been much talk about an inhouse rule to make Druken Style exclusive.

I use the following replacement for determining Exclusive/non-Exclusive styles:
The following Revised Ninjas & Superspies and Mystic China martial arts are not Exclusive: Aikido, An Yin, Ba Gua, Bak Mei, Bok Pai, Ch'a Ch'uan, Chao Ta, Chi Hsuan Men, Chin-Na, Choy-Li-Fut, Gui Long, Han Yu, Hsing-I, Lee Kwan Choo, Li Chia, Liang Hsiung, Mien Chuan, Moo Gi Gong, Pao Pat Mei, Sankukai Karate, Shan Tung, Shih Ba Ban Wu Yi, Snake Style, Tai Chi Chuan, Taido, Tang Su, Te, Tong Lun, Triad Assassin, Yu Sool, and Zanji Shinjinken Ryu
The following martial art styles are considered Exclusive (meaning they must be the first style learned by the character): Drunken Style, Fong Ngan, Fu Chiao Pai, Hsien Hsia*, Hwarang Do, Isshin Ryu, Jujutsu, Kuo-Ch'uan, Kyokushinkai, Monkey Style, Ninjutsu, Pao Chih, Shao Lin, Sumo, Tae Kwon Do, Thai Kick Boxing, Tien Hsueh, Wu Shu Tsung**, Wui Wing Chun, and Xing Chiao.
*Note: Hsien Hsia, if taken, can be the only martial art learned by that character.
**Wu Shu Tsung is listed in its description as being a requirement for Chinese espionage agents. This note should either be removed, or a reasonable solution should be found which would make the style available for espionage agent O.C.C.s ( I recommend additional loss of skill programs).
This revised system results in a much more balanced approach to equating martial art styles with skills and their availability.

[Sentinel]

Out of curiousity KuSat, why is TKD an Exclusive but Tang Su is not?
They don't seem to be that far off in terms of "power" levels from each other (Tang Su might be slightly better in some respects).

[Guest]

Out of curiousity KuSat, why is TKD an Exclusive but Tang Su is not?
They don't seem to be that far off in terms of "power" levels from each other (Tang Su might be slightly better in some respects).

Tang Su was only above average in 2 of the 4 categories used to redefine Exclusivity, TKD is above average in 3 of 4 areas. (The areas being Attacks per Melee, Martial Art Powers, Number of Combat Moves and Total Combat Bonuses.)

Kuseru Satsujin looks pretty good, I think though I would leave TDK and Jutjutsu as non-exclusive not because of game balance reasons but it seems that you can find these school just about anywhere in the world and don't require dedication to the point of having no other form of life. Just kind of my look at what exlusive should be. A form that requires a charater to devote a huge part of his/her life to studying just the art. Just my outlook.

I went with the more powerful styles being limited to being Exclusive for game balance issues.

[Sentinel]

Tang Su was only above average in 2 of the 4 categories used to redefine Exclusivity, TKD is above average in 3 of 4 areas. (The areas being Attacks per Melee, Martial Art Powers, Number of Combat Moves and Total Combat Bonuses.)
I went with the more powerful styles being limited to being Exclusive for game balance issues.

Sounds more methodical than the process used to determine Exclusivity in place (particularly since with Mystic China, it seems Exclusive styles don't exist).

[Guest]

Tang Su was only above average in 2 of the 4 categories used to redefine Exclusivity, TKD is above average in 3 of 4 areas. (The areas being Attacks per Melee, Martial Art Powers, Number of Combat Moves and Total Combat Bonuses.)
I went with the more powerful styles being limited to being Exclusive for game balance issues.

Sounds more methodical than the process used to determine Exclusivity in place (particularly since with Mystic China, it seems Exclusive styles don't exist).

The only style in MC which can be considered Exclusive (of the new styles) is Hsien Hsia.

[Sentinel]

Didn't Tien Tsueh touch mastery get ported to Mystic China?
Wouldn't that still be Exclusive?

[Guest]

Didn't Tien Tsueh touch mastery get ported to Mystic China?
Wouldn't that still be Exclusive?

The only style in MC which can be considered Exclusive (of the new styles) is Hsien Hsia.

[Sentinel]

Sorry: missed that part about the new styles.

So, are exclusive styles still exclusive?
Or is "exclusivity" gone now, since Mystic China isn't (apparently) using this?
Is it legal to select Tien Hsueh and Shaolin?

[Guest]

Sorry: missed that part about the new styles.

So, are exclusive styles still exclusive?
Or is "exclusivity" gone now, since Mystic China isn't (apparently) using this?
Is it legal to select Tien Hsueh and Shaolin?

Since only one class in MC gets more than one style, it's kinda moot. Evidently though, the Wai Chia Wu Shih can't select both Tien Hsueh and Shaolin.

[Sentinel]

Sorry: missed that part about the new styles.

So, are exclusive styles still exclusive?
Or is "exclusivity" gone now, since Mystic China isn't (apparently) using this?
Is it legal to select Tien Hsueh and Shaolin?

Since only one class in MC gets more than one style, it's kinda moot. Evidently though, the Wai Chia Wu Shih can't select both Tien Hsueh and Shaolin.

( I wonder why not? Although the description leads one to believe Shaolin can be used with weapons, it does not come with a weapon element without choosing a Specialty Kata).

Kinda makes it harder to mix and match DMA and other martial arts OCCs.
The DMA can get one exclusive form, or two non-exclusive. But, if he wants to select Mystic China styles, he could (in theory) select those two aforementioned because Tien Hsueh isn't exclusive in MC.
I have a simple solution for myself, but I would also like to see an official canon solution to this omission.
Does the writer think about this stuff before he does it, or what?

[Guest]

Sorry: missed that part about the new styles.

So, are exclusive styles still exclusive?
Or is "exclusivity" gone now, since Mystic China isn't (apparently) using this?
Is it legal to select Tien Hsueh and Shaolin?

Since only one class in MC gets more than one style, it's kinda moot. Evidently though, the Wai Chia Wu Shih can't select both Tien Hsueh and Shaolin.

( I wonder why not? Although the description leads one to believe Shaolin can be used with weapons, it does not come with a weapon element without choosing a Specialty Kata).

Kinda makes it harder to mix and match DMA and other martial arts OCCs.
The DMA can get one exclusive form, or two non-exclusive. But, if he wants to select Mystic China styles, he could (in theory) select those two aforementioned because Tien Hsueh isn't exclusive in MC.
I have a simple solution for myself, but I would also like to see an official canon solution to this omission.
Does the writer think about this stuff before he does it, or what?

Erick didn't do the rewrites for the "revised" edition of N&S. Whoever did do them didn't appear to have read the book and only made changes based on complaints that the "martial arts" were too powerful (along with some updated material, and new OCCs that were done to HU standards, instead of N&S standards).

As for MC, I think Erick was going for more of a conceptual approach, and the technical problems got left by the wayside.