LLW and Scrolls ?

[flatline]

If I was a fellow who knew 'Create Scroll' and aimed to make a living selling scrolls, I might have a financial incentive to pay to have others who knew how to create scrolls murdered so as to increase the demand for my wares.

Were I a fellow with such an ability who were not adequately protected, I might be hesitant to make many scrolls, lest people think I had made them myself instead of purchasing them.

as far as i've ever found, reading a scroll is only a single action. if there's a rule that gives it a time, i'd like to get the page number

Could have sworn at some point I encountered something about it taking as long to read as it does to cast, but couldn't tell you where. Lemme consult the FAQ...

http://www.palladium-megaverse.com/questions/magic.html (Updated: 06/11/02)
44. How many attacks are used when casting a spell from a scroll? Is it dependant on the level of the spell? The description says anyone can use a scroll, but the eye of mystic knowledge tattoo gives a percentage chance to use scrolls.
Answer: Reading a scroll requires at least two melee actions. The higher level spells (7 or higher) may require up to four melee actions. It requires at least a 55% literacy in the language that the scroll is inscribed in to use it.

137. With a Talisman charged with spells, can anyone invoke the magic in it (Just as anyone can read a scroll & get an effect). How quickly do the spells manifest? Say a fire bolt spell is charged. Does it fire in one melee action, or does it take the same time as a normally cast firebolt spell.
Answer: Anyone could use it, and one action is all it takes to release the magic within.

This could be the source of our general idea of Talisman = 1 action Scroll = casting time thing.

Ah, yes, the infamous, sometimes inaccurate, and completely nonoffical FAQ. it dosn't count as an offical source, though it does say where the idea comes from. though unless you have something more solid, as far as i'm concerned there's still nothing saying it takes a long time to read.

i would say that the spell description itself is more solid, just vague.

the spell indicates that you are writing down the words to the spell. you activate the spell by reading it.

how long should it take to read the words to the spell? well, probably exactly as long as it takes to speak the words of the spell normally.

it's pretty solid as a source, but it does require that you make a few assumptions (for example, you must assume the words to the spell are what you say when you cast it normally, and that there isn't any other factor when you cast a spell that makes it take longer than the amount of time to speak the words of the spell).

which is why, like i said, my personal ruling is that using a scroll takes as long as casting the spell normally would... but that's just my personal ruling. it's arguably the canon interpretation, but that's not spelled out anywhere

(egad... was that just two puns in one? i'm getting worse... )

if you happen to have the scroll handy. Who walks around with a scroll in hands ready to read. whould it not take 1 or more actions to fish it out from your pack? you whould need to pull it out and ready it to read.

Totally depends on the situation. The size of a scroll is never detailed that I'm aware of, so GM willing, a "scroll" on a 3x5 card taped to the dash of your vehicle might be ready to be read without any extra actions to prep. Or a binder with tabs so you can open it directly to the desired scroll might not qualify as an action (I have a notebook at work where I can instantly open it to about a dozen important pages that might be a good model for this sort of thing).

For the record, I've always assumed a scroll to be 6x9 or 8.5x11 although, quite honestly, it's never come up. If the spell on the scroll can be recited in full in 10 seconds or less (that's good enough for a 15th level spell according to RUE), a post-it note is probably big enough to contain it when it comes down to it.

Just food for thought.

--flatline

[Nekira Sudacne]

If I was a fellow who knew 'Create Scroll' and aimed to make a living selling scrolls, I might have a financial incentive to pay to have others who knew how to create scrolls murdered so as to increase the demand for my wares.

Were I a fellow with such an ability who were not adequately protected, I might be hesitant to make many scrolls, lest people think I had made them myself instead of purchasing them.

as far as i've ever found, reading a scroll is only a single action. if there's a rule that gives it a time, i'd like to get the page number

Could have sworn at some point I encountered something about it taking as long to read as it does to cast, but couldn't tell you where. Lemme consult the FAQ...

http://www.palladium-megaverse.com/questions/magic.html (Updated: 06/11/02)
44. How many attacks are used when casting a spell from a scroll? Is it dependant on the level of the spell? The description says anyone can use a scroll, but the eye of mystic knowledge tattoo gives a percentage chance to use scrolls.
Answer: Reading a scroll requires at least two melee actions. The higher level spells (7 or higher) may require up to four melee actions. It requires at least a 55% literacy in the language that the scroll is inscribed in to use it.

137. With a Talisman charged with spells, can anyone invoke the magic in it (Just as anyone can read a scroll & get an effect). How quickly do the spells manifest? Say a fire bolt spell is charged. Does it fire in one melee action, or does it take the same time as a normally cast firebolt spell.
Answer: Anyone could use it, and one action is all it takes to release the magic within.

This could be the source of our general idea of Talisman = 1 action Scroll = casting time thing.

Ah, yes, the infamous, sometimes inaccurate, and completely nonoffical FAQ. it dosn't count as an offical source, though it does say where the idea comes from. though unless you have something more solid, as far as i'm concerned there's still nothing saying it takes a long time to read.

i would say that the spell description itself is more solid, just vague.

the spell indicates that you are writing down the words to the spell. you activate the spell by reading it.

how long should it take to read the words to the spell? well, probably exactly as long as it takes to speak the words of the spell normally.

it's pretty solid as a source, but it does require that you make a few assumptions (for example, you must assume the words to the spell are what you say when you cast it normally, and that there isn't any other factor when you cast a spell that makes it take longer than the amount of time to speak the words of the spell).

which is why, like i said, my personal ruling is that using a scroll takes as long as casting the spell normally would... but that's just my personal ruling. it's arguably the canon interpretation, but that's not spelled out anywhere

(egad... was that just two puns in one? i'm getting worse... )

if you happen to have the scroll handy. Who walks around with a scroll in hands ready to read. whould it not take 1 or more actions to fish it out from your pack? you whould need to pull it out and ready it to read.

yes, the same way you need to fish out your gun if it happens to be in your backpack. it still only takes 1 turn to fire once you have it.

[Blue_Lion]

if you happen to have the scroll handy. Who walks around with a scroll in hands ready to read. whould it not take 1 or more actions to fish it out from your pack? you whould need to pull it out and ready it to read.

yes, the same way you need to fish out your gun if it happens to be in your backpack. it still only takes 1 turn to fire once you have it.

Wait who puts their gun in a back pack, rifles whould likely be slung. Pistoles in a holster. There is nothing saying that you always do not need a action to ready a weapon. A GM whould be more than resonable to make you spend a action or more to fish a gun out of the pack if that is where you had it. Think about how long a action is, I am willing to bet this might even warrent looking into new west on rules for quick draw.
If you have 4-5 actions in 15 seconds that means each action is 3-4 seconds long. Getting something out of a back pack and using it seams a bit of a streach. (heck depending on the size of, and type the back pack and if the item is on top you might not be able to get to it that fast.)

[Nekira Sudacne]

if you happen to have the scroll handy. Who walks around with a scroll in hands ready to read. whould it not take 1 or more actions to fish it out from your pack? you whould need to pull it out and ready it to read.

yes, the same way you need to fish out your gun if it happens to be in your backpack. it still only takes 1 turn to fire once you have it.

Wait who puts their gun in a back pack, rifles whould likely be slung. Pistoles in a holster.

depeds on how many guns you have now dosn't it? I've had characters who routinely carried around 7+ guns, not all of them fit in a holster or sling

There is nothing saying that you always do not need a action to ready a weapon. A GM whould be more than resonable to make you spend a action or more to fish a gun out of the pack if that is where you had it.

That is preciely my point. are you agreeing or disagreeing with me?

Think about how long a action is, I am willing to bet this might even warrent looking into new west on rules for quick draw.
If you have 4-5 actions in 15 seconds that means each action is 3-4 seconds long. Getting something out of a back pack and using it seams a bit of a streach. (heck depending on the size of, and type the back pack and if the item is on top you might not be able to get to it that fast.)

The math gets fuzzier if a PC has 8, 10, or more attacks per melee.

[Shark_Force]

also, you could theoretically keep a scroll case or something on your belt, just the same as you could have a gun on your belt. it isn't as if storing things on your belt is some sort of unique super-advanced technology after all. we don't generally have suitable easy-access scroll storage devices today because we don't need them, not because it's some sort of physically impossible task.

[Blue_Lion]

if you happen to have the scroll handy. Who walks around with a scroll in hands ready to read. whould it not take 1 or more actions to fish it out from your pack? you whould need to pull it out and ready it to read.

yes, the same way you need to fish out your gun if it happens to be in your backpack. it still only takes 1 turn to fire once you have it.

Wait who puts their gun in a back pack, rifles whould likely be slung. Pistoles in a holster.

depeds on how many guns you have now dosn't it? I've had characters who routinely carried around 7+ guns, not all of them fit in a holster or sling

There is nothing saying that you always do not need a action to ready a weapon. A GM whould be more than resonable to make you spend a action or more to fish a gun out of the pack if that is where you had it.

That is preciely my point. are you agreeing or disagreeing with me?

Think about how long a action is, I am willing to bet this might even warrent looking into new west on rules for quick draw.
If you have 4-5 actions in 15 seconds that means each action is 3-4 seconds long. Getting something out of a back pack and using it seams a bit of a streach. (heck depending on the size of, and type the back pack and if the item is on top you might not be able to get to it that fast.)

The math gets fuzzier if a PC has 8, 10, or more attacks per melee.

I was under the impresion that you where saying that it never took a action to ready a gun. I was saying there are times when it might take a action to be ready for an attack.

I went with 4-5 because that is what most low level mages have. Think a level 5 LLW usally only has 5. Usaly 8+ is a combat spec charter and more away from the mage.

[Nekira Sudacne]

I was under the impresion that you where saying that it never took a action to ready a gun. I was saying there are times when it might take a action to be ready for an attack.

And that's exactly what I was saying in the first place.

It's cool, though