Bringing Robotech through the Rifts

[FreelancerMar]

There is another thing that must be said About the REF vs CS thing. Most Rifts Infantry energy weapons do more damage than Most Robotech MECHA energy weapons. and most Rifts Robot weapons clearly outclass most robotech weapons period. This is true even in RT 2e. Not to mention a few well placed CS Launched BGM-109 Tomohawk's could ruin the day of a lot of people in mushroom cloud like fashon.

[DhAkael]

There is another thing that must be said About the REF vs CS thing. Most Rifts Infantry energy weapons do more damage than Most Robotech MECHA energy weapons. and most Rifts Robot weapons clearly outclass most robotech weapons period. This is true even in RT 2e. Not to mention a few well placed CS Launched BGM-109 Tomohawk's could ruin the day of a lot of people in mushroom cloud like fashon.

CURRENT Robotech stuff is much more on par with Rifts Terra stuff, but only just.
It is the VF and VAF that would be an equalizer: Flight beats mud-slugs most days.

[Akashic Soldier]

Flight beats mud-slugs most days.

I'll make you eat those words flyboi.

Mugslug-Pride!!

[DhAkael]

Flight beats mud-slugs most days.

I'll make you eat those words flyboi.

Mugslug-Pride!!

*Alto-Hime kabuki pose*
"You can't touch this..."

[Akashic Soldier]

Alto... the ancient enemy of my Akashan People.

I swear on the blood of a thousand Lizard Wizards my mighty steel giant will smash you to pieces!

Question!

You know how they've got those Triax panel things that you stick on crates to make them lighter so you can move them around easily?

How much work would it take to reverse that technology so that it makes things HEAVIER and then how much tinkering would it take to rig it up like Bassara's sound weapons so you can SHOOT them at your enemies?

Sure, useless in space combat... but...

[DhAkael]

Alto... the ancient enemy of my Akashan People.

I swear on the blood of a thousand Lizard Wizards my mighty steel giant will smash you to pieces!

Question!

You know how they've got those Triax panel things that you stick on crates to make them lighter so you can move them around easily?

How much work would it take to reverse that technology so that it makes things HEAVIER and then how much tinkering would it take to rig it up like Bassara's sound weapons so you can SHOOT them at your enemies?

Sure, useless in space combat... but...

oh dear gawds... NO MACROSS 7!
*hides under desk*

[Akashic Soldier]

oh dear gawds... NO MACROSS 7!
*hides under desk*

Hey, M7 rocks.. but more importantly... I just need a way of SHOOTING a device at an enemy ship from a giant robot that will not result in the device being smashed to pieces on contact.

Then I just rapid fire it into the flyer and penalize their skill checks until they crash or their air-crafts engines can no longer keep it airborne.

That is assuming Anon could reverse those panel do-hickies so they made stuff heavier instead of lighter though...?

EDIT: I'm over complicating things! Anon just needs a way of shooting stonking big heavy magnets at enemy ships. Who cares if it busts them up if it sticks and weighs an extra half a half a ton.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

I'm sure the REF will see the coalition states as the only evil thing on the planet , sometimes i really wonder about you guys

[Akashic Soldier]

I'm sure the REF will see the coalition states as the only evil thing on the planet , sometimes i really wonder about you guys

Shhh. Thinking outside their preconceptions hurts them.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

I'm sure the REF will see the coalition states as the only evil thing on the planet , sometimes i really wonder about you guys

Shhh. Thinking outside their preconceptions hurts them.

not like there is a faction within the rdf/sc/ref that would more then happy to follow in the CS policies

[taalismn]

I'm sure the REF will see the coalition states as the only evil thing on the planet , sometimes i really wonder about you guys

Shhh. Thinking outside their preconceptions hurts them.

not like there is a faction within the rdf/sc/ref that would more then happy to follow in the CS policies

Post Rain of Death, sure! You can't smash a planetary civilization without the survivors getting a LITTLE bit xenophobic and mad at you. The UEDF? Not so much...they've learned it's a good idea to have lots of alien cannon-fodderallies to help out. After learning about the Haydonite betrayal, however, there might be more folks who distrust aliens a great deal more...ANY aliens.

Me? I've considered the fun that could be had with Rifts characters visiting the Robotech continua. Mage classes might be rather powerless without non-bloody means of recharging their PPE reserves in a hurry, and dragons and other supernatural beings cut down in power, but a Cyberknight, with his or her anti-tech powers, would be a force to be reckoned with against even mecha(I'll just cloak myself from your sensors and sit here letting my psi-sword burn through your armor, thank you. very much!")...And Rifts power armors? No need for Protoculture? Oy, but the Invid would have trouble... If Northern Gun had reliable access to Robotech Earth, post-Invid, they could make a profit(provided they found something on Robotech Earth they really wanted in trade) selling the reliable old NG-X9 Samson to the Resistance, especially if they refitted it with energy weapons. Of course, there might come a time when people might become aware that 'Northern Gun' isn't from THEIR Earth, and that might incite the same reaction we see on Rifts Earth with regards to Naruni Enterprises...some folks might see them as little more than profit-hungry alien warmongers leeching off human misery and desperation.

[Zer0 Kay]

I'm sure the REF will see the coalition states as the only evil thing on the planet , sometimes i really wonder about you guys

Uh... no but siding with Prosek would be like siding with T.R. Edwards and Prosek isn't half as sneaky.

[Zer0 Kay]

I'm sure the REF will see the coalition states as the only evil thing on the planet , sometimes i really wonder about you guys

Shhh. Thinking outside their preconceptions hurts them.

not like there is a faction within the rdf/sc/ref that would more then happy to follow in the CS policies

Uh... yeah, but T.R. is already dead, unless you pull the ship through prior to his, departure.

RDF: less than more
SC: more than less
REF: much less

hopefully the ship that came through isn't co-habitated by Sentinels.

[Zer0 Kay]

I'm sure the REF will see the coalition states as the only evil thing on the planet , sometimes i really wonder about you guys

Shhh. Thinking outside their preconceptions hurts them.

not like there is a faction within the rdf/sc/ref that would more then happy to follow in the CS policies

Post Rain of Death, sure! You can't smash a planetary civilization without the survivors getting a LITTLE bit xenophobic and mad at you. The UEDF? Not so much...they've learned it's a good idea to have lots of alien cannon-fodderallies to help out. After learning about the Haydonite betrayal, however, there might be more folks who distrust aliens a great deal more...ANY aliens.

Me? I've considered the fun that could be had with Rifts characters visiting the Robotech continua. Mage classes might be rather powerless without non-bloody means of recharging their PPE reserves in a hurry, and dragons and other supernatural beings cut down in power, but a Cyberknight, with his or her anti-tech powers, would be a force to be reckoned with against even mecha(I'll just cloak myself from your sensors and sit here letting my psi-sword burn through your armor, thank you. very much!")...And Rifts power armors? No need for Protoculture? Oy, but the Invid would have trouble... If Northern Gun had reliable access to Robotech Earth, post-Invid, they could make a profit(provided they found something on Robotech Earth they really wanted in trade) selling the reliable old NG-X9 Samson to the Resistance, especially if they refitted it with energy weapons. Of course, there might come a time when people might become aware that 'Northern Gun' isn't from THEIR Earth, and that might incite the same reaction we see on Rifts Earth with regards to Naruni Enterprises...some folks might see them as little more than profit-hungry alien warmongers leeching off human misery and desperation.

RT isn't devoid of PPE/ISP they have psychics and the FoL is a big psychic collective intelligence... going by McKinney's books and Maceks notes.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

I'm sure the REF will see the coalition states as the only evil thing on the planet , sometimes i really wonder about you guys

Shhh. Thinking outside their preconceptions hurts them.

not like there is a faction within the rdf/sc/ref that would more then happy to follow in the CS policies

Uh... yeah, but T.R. is already dead, unless you pull the ship through prior to his, departure.

RDF: less than more
SC: more than less
REF: much less

hopefully the ship that came through isn't co-habitated by Sentinels.

like i said a faction, edwards dont get followers because of his looks

[Zer0 Kay]

I'm sure the REF will see the coalition states as the only evil thing on the planet , sometimes i really wonder about you guys

Shhh. Thinking outside their preconceptions hurts them.

not like there is a faction within the rdf/sc/ref that would more then happy to follow in the CS policies

Uh... yeah, but T.R. is already dead, unless you pull the ship through prior to his, departure.

RDF: less than more
SC: more than less
REF: much less

hopefully the ship that came through isn't co-habitated by Sentinels.

like i said a faction, edwards dont get followers because of his looks

Nope he got those few with the same reason Hitler did, Charisma and a group that needed a scape goat. Wonder how many of his friends liked him when he sided with the Regent.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Nope he got those few with the same reason Hitler did, Charisma and a group that needed a scape goat. Wonder how many of his friends liked him when he sided with the Regent.

well atleast he dont get play as a chump like Rick and the gang did

[taalismn]

I'm sure the REF will see the coalition states as the only evil thing on the planet , sometimes i really wonder about you guys

Shhh. Thinking outside their preconceptions hurts them.

not like there is a faction within the rdf/sc/ref that would more then happy to follow in the CS policies

Post Rain of Death, sure! You can't smash a planetary civilization without the survivors getting a LITTLE bit xenophobic and mad at you. The UEDF? Not so much...they've learned it's a good idea to have lots of alien cannon-fodderallies to help out. After learning about the Haydonite betrayal, however, there might be more folks who distrust aliens a great deal more...ANY aliens.

Me? I've considered the fun that could be had with Rifts characters visiting the Robotech continua. Mage classes might be rather powerless without non-bloody means of recharging their PPE reserves in a hurry, and dragons and other supernatural beings cut down in power, but a Cyberknight, with his or her anti-tech powers, would be a force to be reckoned with against even mecha(I'll just cloak myself from your sensors and sit here letting my psi-sword burn through your armor, thank you. very much!")...And Rifts power armors? No need for Protoculture? Oy, but the Invid would have trouble... If Northern Gun had reliable access to Robotech Earth, post-Invid, they could make a profit(provided they found something on Robotech Earth they really wanted in trade) selling the reliable old NG-X9 Samson to the Resistance, especially if they refitted it with energy weapons. Of course, there might come a time when people might become aware that 'Northern Gun' isn't from THEIR Earth, and that might incite the same reaction we see on Rifts Earth with regards to Naruni Enterprises...some folks might see them as little more than profit-hungry alien warmongers leeching off human misery and desperation.

RT isn't devoid of PPE/ISP they have psychics and the FoL is a big psychic collective intelligence... going by McKinney's books and Maceks notes.

Indeed, yes, but while one can convert ISP to PPE, it's a rather expensive process. And there's no evidence of ley lines or other signs of a high ambient PPE level on Robotech Earth. Mindmelters would be at home, but LeyLine Walkers and others dependent on high PPE in the environment would be put off, unable to recharge quickly. Yes, a mage could horde PPE for a few bursts of magic mayhem that would ASTONISH Zentraedi and Tirolians, but would leave the mage essentially with an empty clip afterwards and vulnerable, compared to what they might be used to on worlds like Rifts Earth.

[Zer0 Kay]

Shhh. Thinking outside their preconceptions hurts them.

not like there is a faction within the rdf/sc/ref that would more then happy to follow in the CS policies

Post Rain of Death, sure! You can't smash a planetary civilization without the survivors getting a LITTLE bit xenophobic and mad at you. The UEDF? Not so much...they've learned it's a good idea to have lots of alien cannon-fodderallies to help out. After learning about the Haydonite betrayal, however, there might be more folks who distrust aliens a great deal more...ANY aliens.

Me? I've considered the fun that could be had with Rifts characters visiting the Robotech continua. Mage classes might be rather powerless without non-bloody means of recharging their PPE reserves in a hurry, and dragons and other supernatural beings cut down in power, but a Cyberknight, with his or her anti-tech powers, would be a force to be reckoned with against even mecha(I'll just cloak myself from your sensors and sit here letting my psi-sword burn through your armor, thank you. very much!")...And Rifts power armors? No need for Protoculture? Oy, but the Invid would have trouble... If Northern Gun had reliable access to Robotech Earth, post-Invid, they could make a profit(provided they found something on Robotech Earth they really wanted in trade) selling the reliable old NG-X9 Samson to the Resistance, especially if they refitted it with energy weapons. Of course, there might come a time when people might become aware that 'Northern Gun' isn't from THEIR Earth, and that might incite the same reaction we see on Rifts Earth with regards to Naruni Enterprises...some folks might see them as little more than profit-hungry alien warmongers leeching off human misery and desperation.

RT isn't devoid of PPE/ISP they have psychics and the FoL is a big psychic collective intelligence... going by McKinney's books and Maceks notes.

Indeed, yes, but while one can convert ISP to PPE, it's a rather expensive process. And there's no evidence of ley lines or other signs of a high ambient PPE level on Robotech Earth. Mindmelters would be at home, but LeyLine Walkers and others dependent on high PPE in the environment would be put off, unable to recharge quickly. Yes, a mage could horde PPE for a few bursts of magic mayhem that would ASTONISH Zentraedi and Tirolians, but would leave the mage essentially with an empty clip afterwards and vulnerable, compared to what they might be used to on worlds like Rifts Earth.

Uh... yeah. Just like ley lines aren't evident on BtS. Just because no one ever looked for them on RT Earth doesn't mean they weren't/aren't there. You state a lot and both sides are assumptions, the one thing we're sure of is that every other dimension in the MV (though RT really isn't, since it is a liscensed product) that has ISP also has PPE, even if it isn't evident.

[taalismn]

I'm not saying that there ISN'T PPE(or leylines) on Robotech Earth, I'm saying that there isn't ENOUGH to sustain the sort of magic effects we see on Rifts Earth.
Compared to Rifts Earth, BTS and PFRPG world magic is pretty weak(no megadamage magic, for instance). At best, ambient PPE levels on Robotech Earth are akin to those on BTS Earth...higher levels would likely be resulting in evident changes in the population, such as increased manifestation of metaphysical abilities, especially in the younger generations(a fact not reflected in character generation charts for the ASC and New Generation arcs). Psionics seem to be the domain of the genetically-engineered Tirolians and
Now, there MAY be ley line flares and spikes in the ambient PPE levels(especially around the time of the Rain of Death, with all those billions of people dying), but nowhere near the sort of big surge that would sustain glowing lines being seen all over the Earth for the UEDF and the ASC to see and comment on. Now, a mage from Rifts Earth would be able to sense them and predict when, and likely where, the best times and places to gather a maximum amount of PPE would be, and they'd likely, if they had the time and peace, use them to soak up PPE, charge up their TW devices.
However, I don't see the Southern Cross Civil Defense Corp or the GMP going hunting dragons on a regular basis.

Yeah, I'm saying a lot, so I'll reiterate:

Rifts Characters using high tech will be well off in a Robotech setting, barring some problems in finding compatible repair parts and materials.
Psionic characters, with the exception of Psi-Stalkers, are going to be very well off as far as their powers go, since their powers come from within, fueled by their inner strength. Even if the GM rules that their powers do only SDC, they'll still be very impressive. A MindMelter or a Psi-Ghost would be very fearsome adversaries to set loose on Zentraedi, Tirolians, and even Invid.
Magic-Users are going to be hamstrung. They might be able to perform some really keen spell-fests, but they'll have to nurse their PPE reserves and use their magic sparingly, because they're not going to recharge as fast. Again, though, a GM might want to rule that even with hording their PPE, their spells will do only SDC. Again, though, the right combination of spells used appropriately would be murderous on Robotech opponents. But don't expect sustained magic powerfests.
Creatures of Magic are going to have trouble; especially if they rely on a high level of ambient PPE to sustain them.. ESPECIALLY if the GM rules that they have to revert to SDC and Hit Points. HOWEVER, if they use their other abilities(those that have the appropriate ones) to screen themselves, they may be able to lay low and avoid having to face MDC technology(and SDC dragon does NOT want to face a Destroid) while they're at their most vulnerable. ESPECIALLY if they play on the general blindness of technocratic Robotech peoples to the supernatural("Oh really, you saw a dragon? Dragons don't exist. Zentraedi bandits on the other hand..."). This actually presents a window of opportunity for creatures like BTS predators to exploit the general lawlessness and chaos following the Rain of Death, or during the Invid Occupation...Bogeymen might make great unexpected opponents for Urchin characters...

[Zer0 Kay]

I'm not saying that there ISN'T PPE(or leylines) on Robotech Earth, I'm saying that there isn't ENOUGH to sustain the sort of magic effects we see on Rifts Earth.
Compared to Rifts Earth, BTS and PFRPG world magic is pretty weak(no megadamage magic, for instance). At best, ambient PPE levels on Robotech Earth are akin to those on BTS Earth...higher levels would likely be resulting in evident changes in the population, such as increased manifestation of metaphysical abilities, especially in the younger generations(a fact not reflected in character generation charts for the ASC and New Generation arcs). Psionics seem to be the domain of the genetically-engineered Tirolians and
Now, there MAY be ley line flares and spikes in the ambient PPE levels(especially around the time of the Rain of Death, with all those billions of people dying), but nowhere near the sort of big surge that would sustain glowing lines being seen all over the Earth for the UEDF and the ASC to see and comment on. Now, a mage from Rifts Earth would be able to sense them and predict when, and likely where, the best times and places to gather a maximum amount of PPE would be, and they'd likely, if they had the time and peace, use them to soak up PPE, charge up their TW devices.
However, I don't see the Southern Cross Civil Defense Corp or the GMP going hunting dragons on a regular basis.

Yeah, I'm saying a lot, so I'll reiterate:

Rifts Characters using high tech will be well off in a Robotech setting, barring some problems in finding compatible repair parts and materials.
Psionic characters, with the exception of Psi-Stalkers, are going to be very well off as far as their powers go, since their powers come from within, fueled by their inner strength. Even if the GM rules that their powers do only SDC, they'll still be very impressive. A MindMelter or a Psi-Ghost would be very fearsome adversaries to set loose on Zentraedi, Tirolians, and even Invid.
Magic-Users are going to be hamstrung. They might be able to perform some really keen spell-fests, but they'll have to nurse their PPE reserves and use their magic sparingly, because they're not going to recharge as fast. Again, though, a GM might want to rule that even with hording their PPE, their spells will do only SDC. Again, though, the right combination of spells used appropriately would be murderous on Robotech opponents. But don't expect sustained magic powerfests.
Creatures of Magic are going to have trouble; especially if they rely on a high level of ambient PPE to sustain them.. ESPECIALLY if the GM rules that they have to revert to SDC and Hit Points. HOWEVER, if they use their other abilities(those that have the appropriate ones) to screen themselves, they may be able to lay low and avoid having to face MDC technology(and SDC dragon does NOT want to face a Destroid) while they're at their most vulnerable. ESPECIALLY if they play on the general blindness of technocratic Robotech peoples to the supernatural("Oh really, you saw a dragon? Dragons don't exist. Zentraedi bandits on the other hand..."). This actually presents a window of opportunity for creatures like BTS predators to exploit the general lawlessness and chaos following the Rain of Death, or during the Invid Occupation...Bogeymen might make great unexpected opponents for Urchin characters...

You forget that even though the Sentinels aren't canon the Sentinel races still exist they met them and Lisa is an amasador to them. Which means there are still Perytonians and Garudians. The Regis' power according to the game are also ISP based or at least they were in 1E I don't recal 2E. So somehow without visible leylines the energy is strong enough to empower beings of magic to MDC levels. Besides dragons are MDC reguardless of magic levels, in splicers where the world is devoid of PPE Dragons and all other things that were said to be MDC because of the magic energy in Rifts... are still MDC in Splicers. (Sure it doesn't make sense but that is what it says) Technocratic huh? A government based on technology? So playing MDC Creatures of Magic from Rifts as SDC in RT wouldn't be canon, it would be a house rule (even though it makes sense based on their reason for being MDC in the first place).

[FreelancerMar]

Just a Note. In the Old Sentinels RPG Peryton magic is MegaDamage. So using that as a president, Some MDC beings will have less MDC than they would on Rifts earth but that does not mean that they instantly become SDC the very moment they come to Robotech earth. Robotech is still very much a Mega damage setting in some respects so striping away megadamage abilities would be horrendously unfair to the PC's. However In a Robotech setting, Playing a squishy is not as much as a disadvantage as it would be in a rifts setting.

[taalismn]

[

You forget that even though the Sentinels aren't canon the Sentinel races still exist they met them and Lisa is an amasador to them. Which means there are still Perytonians and Garudians. The Regis' power according to the game are also ISP based or at least they were in 1E I don't recal 2E. So somehow without visible leylines the energy is strong enough to empower beings of magic to MDC levels. Besides dragons are MDC reguardless of magic levels, in splicers where the world is devoid of PPE Dragons and all other things that were said to be MDC because of the magic energy in Rifts... are still MDC in Splicers. (Sure it doesn't make sense but that is what it says) Technocratic huh? A government based on technology? So playing MDC Creatures of Magic from Rifts as SDC in RT wouldn't be canon, it would be a house rule (even though it makes sense based on their reason for being MDC in the first place).

That may apply to Pertyon(which by the old storyline and the McKInney novels could be argued to be stuck in a standing Ley Line storm, dimensional flux, or stuck-open Rift) and Garuda, because it's swimming in a bio-active ecology that drenches the environment in life energy. Mages more used to PPE-rich environs would likely have no problems casting spells(including medagamage spells) in such environs. Earth lacks either of those conditions.
I'd allow for megadamage beings IF it could be definitely said their toughness wasn't tied wholly to PPE. On the other hand, I'd hamstring their abilities to recover PPE as quickly; it's like an athlete who's more used to running at sea level being forced to do the same level of activity at, say, the top of Mount Everest, with PPE being equated with oxygen. Without some form of concentrated, supplemental oxygen/PPE to sustain their normal levels of activity, the mage/creature of magic/marathoner/athlete is going to be wheezing and staggering after their usual routine, maybe even to the point of physical illness. Note that a being with BOTH magic and psionics is still going to have their psionics to use without any problems, and they should have no problems recharging themselves, since it's an inner power, and not something absorbed from without, but unless they have some means of converting their ISP to PPE, those ISP reserves/regeneration abilities are going to do jack squat for their spell-casting abilities.
And yes, the Robotech governments and militaries are technocratic(or perhaps I should say technoPHILIC); they rely on the products of SCIENCE to defend themselves first, not spellcasting or psionic goat-starers to slay the enemy with their minds. An ASC or UEDF/UEEF planner is more likely to approve funding for a new mecha or missile system than invest in the proposal put forward by somebody like the Lazlo Agency, unless that organization can put forward a VERY convincing argument/demonstration that psionics or magic really exist and are trustworthy as weapons systems.

[Zer0 Kay]

Just a Note. In the Old Sentinels RPG Peryton magic is MegaDamage. So using that as a president, Some MDC beings will have less MDC than they would on Rifts earth but that does not mean that they instantly become SDC the very moment they come to Robotech earth. Robotech is still very much a Mega damage setting in some respects so striping away megadamage abilities would be horrendously unfair to the PC's. However In a Robotech setting, Playing a squishy is not as much as a disadvantage as it would be in a rifts setting.

Perytonian magic is also ISP not PPE based IIRC. so... However, it still makes precidence since it apparently takes a lot more energy to make psychic powers MDC than it does magic.

[Nightmask]

Just a Note. In the Old Sentinels RPG Peryton magic is MegaDamage. So using that as a president, Some MDC beings will have less MDC than they would on Rifts earth but that does not mean that they instantly become SDC the very moment they come to Robotech earth. Robotech is still very much a Mega damage setting in some respects so striping away megadamage abilities would be horrendously unfair to the PC's. However In a Robotech setting, Playing a squishy is not as much as a disadvantage as it would be in a rifts setting.

The Peryton are also native to the environment, evolved up to function in it and explicitly noted as mutants and how their spells can be seen more as spell-like powers than actual magic. So while they exist as beings with MD 'spells' they can't be used as an example of how someone from other dimensions should retain MD capabilities. Someone from Rifts Earth like a Ley Line Walker is dependent on that high ambient PPE to make his magic MD, Robotech really doesn't classify as being anywhere close to even Heroes Unlimited in level, and more around Beyond the Supernatural so doesn't have the foundation to support MD magic.

Which doesn't mean that they can't be effective, there are many spells that are just as useful there as they are anywhere else and wouldn't hurt them to learn to husband their magical resources instead of squandering them because they're too used to ready access to Ley Lines to recharge quickly. No reason they shouldn't be learning to do that just like the guy with the rail gun has to ration his ammo, it'll just help them in the long-term to improve their effectiveness.

[Zer0 Kay]

[

You forget that even though the Sentinels aren't canon the Sentinel races still exist they met them and Lisa is an amasador to them. Which means there are still Perytonians and Garudians. The Regis' power according to the game are also ISP based or at least they were in 1E I don't recal 2E. So somehow without visible leylines the energy is strong enough to empower beings of magic to MDC levels. Besides dragons are MDC reguardless of magic levels, in splicers where the world is devoid of PPE Dragons and all other things that were said to be MDC because of the magic energy in Rifts... are still MDC in Splicers. (Sure it doesn't make sense but that is what it says) Technocratic huh? A government based on technology? So playing MDC Creatures of Magic from Rifts as SDC in RT wouldn't be canon, it would be a house rule (even though it makes sense based on their reason for being MDC in the first place).

That may apply to Pertyon(which by the old storyline and the McKInney novels could be argued to be stuck in a standing Ley Line storm, dimensional flux, or stuck-open Rift) and Garuda, because it's swimming in a bio-active ecology that drenches the environment in life energy. Mages more used to PPE-rich environs would likely have no problems casting spells(including medagamage spells) in such environs. Earth lacks either of those conditions.
I'd allow for megadamage beings IF it could be definitely said their toughness wasn't tied wholly to PPE. On the other hand, I'd hamstring their abilities to recover PPE as quickly; it's like an athlete who's more used to running at sea level being forced to do the same level of activity at, say, the top of Mount Everest, with PPE being equated with oxygen. Without some form of concentrated, supplemental oxygen/PPE to sustain their normal levels of activity, the mage/creature of magic/marathoner/athlete is going to be wheezing and staggering after their usual routine, maybe even to the point of physical illness. Note that a being with BOTH magic and psionics is still going to have their psionics to use without any problems, and they should have no problems recharging themselves, since it's an inner power, and not something absorbed from without, but unless they have some means of converting their ISP to PPE, those ISP reserves/regeneration abilities are going to do jack squat for their spell-casting abilities.
And yes, the Robotech governments and militaries are technocratic(or perhaps I should say technoPHILIC); they rely on the products of SCIENCE to defend themselves first, not spellcasting or psionic goat-starers to slay the enemy with their minds. An ASC or UEDF/UEEF planner is more likely to approve funding for a new mecha or missile system than invest in the proposal put forward by somebody like the Lazlo Agency, unless that organization can put forward a VERY convincing argument/demonstration that psionics or magic really exist and are trustworthy as weapons systems.

So I hear excuses. The Perytonians and Garudians aren't restricted in game to their own planets nor is the Regis or the princes and princesses to their own home world. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean the power isn't there. In the three galaxies there are no visible leylines like on Earth but guess what... everything still works as if you are on Rifts Earth. I think the word your trying to make up would be Technophiliac. Uh... you realize the LA receives no government support nor as I recall does any parapsychology agency in the Megaverse... IIRC. Yet according to McKinney it was exactly the goat starer children of the SDF-3 that saved the universe... well them and the FoL. Which is the midocondria (or how ever you spell that stupid SW ep I, II, III Deux ex Machina) of Robotech, guiding fate.

[Zer0 Kay]

Just a Note. In the Old Sentinels RPG Peryton magic is MegaDamage. So using that as a president, Some MDC beings will have less MDC than they would on Rifts earth but that does not mean that they instantly become SDC the very moment they come to Robotech earth. Robotech is still very much a Mega damage setting in some respects so striping away megadamage abilities would be horrendously unfair to the PC's. However In a Robotech setting, Playing a squishy is not as much as a disadvantage as it would be in a rifts setting.

The Peryton are also native to the environment, evolved up to function in it and explicitly noted as mutants and how their spells can be seen more as spell-like powers than actual magic. So while they exist as beings with MD 'spells' they can't be used as an example of how someone from other dimensions should retain MD capabilities. Someone from Rifts Earth like a Ley Line Walker is dependent on that high ambient PPE to make his magic MD, Robotech really doesn't classify as being anywhere close to even Heroes Unlimited in level, and more around Beyond the Supernatural so doesn't have the foundation to support MD magic.

Which doesn't mean that they can't be effective, there are many spells that are just as useful there as they are anywhere else and wouldn't hurt them to learn to husband their magical resources instead of squandering them because they're too used to ready access to Ley Lines to recharge quickly. No reason they shouldn't be learning to do that just like the guy with the rail gun has to ration his ammo, it'll just help them in the long-term to improve their effectiveness.

Again... prove it. You don't have to have visible leylines to be equivalent of MDC. Phase World and the rest of the three galaxies, Manhunter, Wormwood. Even if the world is entirely dead of PPE like Splicers IIRC the dragons are still MDC.

[Nightmask]

Just a Note. In the Old Sentinels RPG Peryton magic is MegaDamage. So using that as a president, Some MDC beings will have less MDC than they would on Rifts earth but that does not mean that they instantly become SDC the very moment they come to Robotech earth. Robotech is still very much a Mega damage setting in some respects so striping away megadamage abilities would be horrendously unfair to the PC's. However In a Robotech setting, Playing a squishy is not as much as a disadvantage as it would be in a rifts setting.

The Peryton are also native to the environment, evolved up to function in it and explicitly noted as mutants and how their spells can be seen more as spell-like powers than actual magic. So while they exist as beings with MD 'spells' they can't be used as an example of how someone from other dimensions should retain MD capabilities. Someone from Rifts Earth like a Ley Line Walker is dependent on that high ambient PPE to make his magic MD, Robotech really doesn't classify as being anywhere close to even Heroes Unlimited in level, and more around Beyond the Supernatural so doesn't have the foundation to support MD magic.

Which doesn't mean that they can't be effective, there are many spells that are just as useful there as they are anywhere else and wouldn't hurt them to learn to husband their magical resources instead of squandering them because they're too used to ready access to Ley Lines to recharge quickly. No reason they shouldn't be learning to do that just like the guy with the rail gun has to ration his ammo, it'll just help them in the long-term to improve their effectiveness.

Again... prove it. You don't have to have visible leylines to be equivalent of MDC. Phase World and the rest of the three galaxies, Manhunter, Wormwood. Even if the world is entirely dead of PPE like Splicers IIRC the dragons are still MDC.

I don't have to prove it, since the conversion books made it clear that the Robotech setting doesn't support crossover characters retaining Mega-damage capacity, even natural MDC creatures like Dragons lose most or all of their MDC due to the weakness inherent in that universe magically. Palladium's already made it clear it doesn't work how you insist it does.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Again... prove it. You don't have to have visible leylines to be equivalent of MDC. Phase World and the rest of the three galaxies, Manhunter, Wormwood. Even if the world is entirely dead of PPE like Splicers IIRC the dragons are still MDC.

I don't have to prove it, since the conversion books made it clear that the Robotech setting doesn't support crossover characters retaining Mega-damage capacity, even natural MDC creatures like Dragons lose most or all of their MDC due to the weakness inherent in that universe magically. Palladium's already made it clear it doesn't work how you insist it does.

actually Zero Kay is right , dragon and Gods has bit for dragons and gods being reduced MDC by 25-50% with isp and ppe reduced by 50% page 19 of dragons and gods

[taalismn]

Okay; any mages who want full speed generation of their MDC magic and Creatures of Magic who want their full MDC may go to ZK's Home Rules version of Robotech Earth. Otherwise, don't expect your magic senses or thaumagauges to register much in the way in the way of high ambient PPE levels if you come to my Home Rules baseline Robotech World(s), unless I'm declaring Alternate Universe. On the plus side, your supernatural strength should allow you to carry some fairly heavy weaponry if you've got the skill to use it.
Any mage or supernatural being who contests that, asserting that the same should apply universally will be taken aside by Global Military Police, beaten soundly with the appropriate instrument of correction(including explosives), and booted through a dimensional rift at the appropriate solstice and nexus point by (censored by the order of the United Earth Government Planetary Security Secrets Act).

[Nightmask]

Again... prove it. You don't have to have visible leylines to be equivalent of MDC. Phase World and the rest of the three galaxies, Manhunter, Wormwood. Even if the world is entirely dead of PPE like Splicers IIRC the dragons are still MDC.

I don't have to prove it, since the conversion books made it clear that the Robotech setting doesn't support crossover characters retaining Mega-damage capacity, even natural MDC creatures like Dragons lose most or all of their MDC due to the weakness inherent in that universe magically. Palladium's already made it clear it doesn't work how you insist it does.

actually Zero Kay is right , dragon and Gods has bit for dragons and gods being reduced MDC by 25-50% with isp and ppe reduced by 50% page 19 of dragons and gods

That doesn't make him right, that supports the idea that the setting doesn't support them otherwise they wouldn't see any reduction in power or ability. Halving their ISP and PPE definitely doesn't support the idea that 'well the Robotech setting's magical enough to support these creatures just fine'. While not surprisingly they're inconsistent on how much the setting hampers such creatures it's made quite evident that the setting isn't friendly to them by any stretch of the imagination.

[Zer0 Kay]

Okay; any mages who want full speed generation of their MDC magic and Creatures of Magic who want their full MDC may go to ZK's Home Rules version of Robotech Earth. Otherwise, don't expect your magic senses or thaumagauges to register much in the way in the way of high ambient PPE levels if you come to my Home Rules baseline Robotech World(s), unless I'm declaring Alternate Universe. On the plus side, your supernatural strength should allow you to carry some fairly heavy weaponry if you've got the skill to use it.
Any mage or supernatural being who contests that, asserting that the same should apply universally will be taken aside by Global Military Police, beaten soundly with the appropriate instrument of correction(including explosives), and booted through a dimensional rift at the appropriate solstice and nexus point by (censored by the order of the United Earth Government Planetary Security Secrets Act).

OK taal, give me those degrees... or at least slow down and read what your writing. As you state both our rules are house rules because no PB characters can "legally" rift into RT. The stuff from the old conversion books were for RT1e so don't apply anymore.

How does the GMP know about dimensional rifts when no studies have ever been funded in your world?

So some questions then:
In your RT do living things have PPE?
In your RT do you follow the laws of physics especially conservation of energy?
In your RT when a living thing dies does it produce double its PPE?
In your RT what happened to all the PPE after the Zent orbital strike?

So Rifts started with "millions" of people dying in a single city that was on two nexi with the multiplying effects of the planetary alignment and midnight.

Compared to the Rain of Death's approximate 12 Billion body count across 95% of the Earth (so it probably go that one city too)... should be enough to charge leylines sufficiently. To allow creatures of magic to remain MDC and magic to cause MDC. That doesn't mean they have to erupt and glow. Maybe those are a result of the planetary alignement not specifically the number of deaths. If your going to port in non RT stuff into RT it makes more sense that magic and creatures of magic remain MD than it does that they are not. Again we have ISP, which is a weaker cohabitating partner of PPE, powered abilities causing MD. We have two races that use powers and one (two if you count Haydon IV/Haydon) godlike being that are MDC and we have a vegitable life form that is psychic.

I'd go so far as saying that if the environment of RT dimension wasn't magic rich the FoL wouldn't be able to function as it does according to Jack McKinney(s) and Carl Macek. Now maybe (according to the Megaversal Builder or whatever that book is called) the RT universe may be of a different energy type and that is why the magic reliant FoL isn't able to grow near leylines or nexi on Rifts Earth. Hmm... but I didn't like that so another one of MY HOME RULES (not yelling just emphasising) is that FoL grow like weeds near leylines and nexi.

[Zer0 Kay]

Again... prove it. You don't have to have visible leylines to be equivalent of MDC. Phase World and the rest of the three galaxies, Manhunter, Wormwood. Even if the world is entirely dead of PPE like Splicers IIRC the dragons are still MDC.

I don't have to prove it, since the conversion books made it clear that the Robotech setting doesn't support crossover characters retaining Mega-damage capacity, even natural MDC creatures like Dragons lose most or all of their MDC due to the weakness inherent in that universe magically. Palladium's already made it clear it doesn't work how you insist it does.

actually Zero Kay is right , dragon and Gods has bit for dragons and gods being reduced MDC by 25-50% with isp and ppe reduced by 50% page 19 of dragons and gods

That doesn't make him right, that supports the idea that the setting doesn't support them otherwise they wouldn't see any reduction in power or ability. Halving their ISP and PPE definitely doesn't support the idea that 'well the Robotech setting's magical enough to support these creatures just fine'. While not surprisingly they're inconsistent on how much the setting hampers such creatures it's made quite evident that the setting isn't friendly to them by any stretch of the imagination.

MDC to less MDC if far more friendly than was being stated with MDC straight to freaking SDC not to mention it doesn't state anything about magical damage being reduced at all just the ammount of PPE/ISP. So it DOES support my statement that MDC creatures REMAIN MDC. Show me where it says they don't? HOWEVER, it's all still home rules because we're messing with RT 1e where PB was allowed to officially rift stuff between the two and RT 2e where RT is a stand alone with limited development potential and creative freedom. Rifting other PB stuff into RT 2e... officially, big no-no. So that means a Dragon rifting into RT2e or a SAMAS rifting into RT2e or a SDC Mechanoid rifting into RT2e = 0 MDC/SDC/HP... it's more dangerous than the mirror wall in Nightspawn... kills everything instead of just non-organics passing through it's dimensional fabric. Its like that electric bug light trap thingy.

[Nightmask]

That doesn't make him right, that supports the idea that the setting doesn't support them otherwise they wouldn't see any reduction in power or ability. Halving their ISP and PPE definitely doesn't support the idea that 'well the Robotech setting's magical enough to support these creatures just fine'. While not surprisingly they're inconsistent on how much the setting hampers such creatures it's made quite evident that the setting isn't friendly to them by any stretch of the imagination.

MDC to less MDC if far more friendly than was being stated with MDC straight to freaking SDC not to mention it doesn't state anything about magical damage being reduced at all just the ammount of PPE/ISP. So it DOES support my statement that MDC creatures REMAIN MDC. Show me where it says they don't? HOWEVER, it's all still home rules because we're messing with RT 1e where PB was allowed to officially rift stuff between the two and RT 2e where RT is a stand alone with limited development potential and creative freedom. Rifting other PB stuff into RT 2e... officially, big no-no. So that means a Dragon rifting into RT2e or a SAMAS rifting into RT2e or a SDC Mechanoid rifting into RT2e = 0 MDC/SDC/HP... it's more dangerous than the mirror wall in Nightspawn... kills everything instead of just non-organics passing through it's dimensional fabric. Its like that electric bug light trap thingy.

Why are you including SAMAS in that? They're a non-magical high-tech device that no more should be subject to turning into an SDC item going into Robotech than any other non-magical material object. High tech items aren't like magical MDC creatures like dragons that are subject to other rules as part of their make-up is supported by the magical nature or lack thereof of a dimension.

I will say I did have a former friend that actually responded quite negatively to a story I'd been writing because I had it that the magical sorts didn't function at MD levels with their magic and were only at SDC levels, feeling it somehow diminished things.

[taalismn]

Okay; any mages who want full speed generation of their MDC magic and Creatures of Magic who want their full MDC may go to ZK's Home Rules version of Robotech Earth. Otherwise, don't expect your magic senses or thaumagauges to register much in the way in the way of high ambient PPE levels if you come to my Home Rules baseline Robotech World(s), unless I'm declaring Alternate Universe. On the plus side, your supernatural strength should allow you to carry some fairly heavy weaponry if you've got the skill to use it.
Any mage or supernatural being who contests that, asserting that the same should apply universally will be taken aside by Global Military Police, beaten soundly with the appropriate instrument of correction(including explosives), and booted through a dimensional rift at the appropriate solstice and nexus point by (censored by the order of the United Earth Government Planetary Security Secrets Act).

OK taal, give me those degrees... or at least slow down and read what your writing. As you state both our rules are house rules because no PB characters can "legally" rift into RT. The stuff from the old conversion books were for RT1e so don't apply anymore.

How does the GMP know about dimensional rifts when no studies have ever been funded in your world? .

One; I'd tell you how the GMP knows about these things, but then I'd have to kill you. Or at least imply that a cigarette -smoking man had something to do with your sudden disappearance.

Two; degree varies by alternate universe, and since there's an infinite number of universes. I'd tell you them all, but I'd insist that you don't get up to use the bathroom, eat, get a drink, or sleep(I, on the other hand, reserve those rights by GM fiat).

Three; I made my reality check. Moving right along.

[Zer0 Kay]

That doesn't make him right, that supports the idea that the setting doesn't support them otherwise they wouldn't see any reduction in power or ability. Halving their ISP and PPE definitely doesn't support the idea that 'well the Robotech setting's magical enough to support these creatures just fine'. While not surprisingly they're inconsistent on how much the setting hampers such creatures it's made quite evident that the setting isn't friendly to them by any stretch of the imagination.

MDC to less MDC if far more friendly than was being stated with MDC straight to freaking SDC not to mention it doesn't state anything about magical damage being reduced at all just the ammount of PPE/ISP. So it DOES support my statement that MDC creatures REMAIN MDC. Show me where it says they don't? HOWEVER, it's all still home rules because we're messing with RT 1e where PB was allowed to officially rift stuff between the two and RT 2e where RT is a stand alone with limited development potential and creative freedom. Rifting other PB stuff into RT 2e... officially, big no-no. So that means a Dragon rifting into RT2e or a SAMAS rifting into RT2e or a SDC Mechanoid rifting into RT2e = 0 MDC/SDC/HP... it's more dangerous than the mirror wall in Nightspawn... kills everything instead of just non-organics passing through it's dimensional fabric. Its like that electric bug light trap thingy.

Why are you including SAMAS in that? They're a non-magical high-tech device that no more should be subject to turning into an SDC item going into Robotech than any other non-magical material object. High tech items aren't like magical MDC creatures like dragons that are subject to other rules as part of their make-up is supported by the magical nature or lack thereof of a dimension.

I will say I did have a former friend that actually responded quite negatively to a story I'd been writing because I had it that the magical sorts didn't function at MD levels with their magic and were only at SDC levels, feeling it somehow diminished things.

I included all of them in that line of thought, because they are all officially worth the same damage value in RT2e... ZERO, nothing, nadda, zip, zilch... get it.
I think it makes senes to reduce magical MDC to SDC in a magic dead realm. But RT1e is not Magic dead which some of the inhabitants and the FoL show and the conversion book proves because MD creatures from Rifts are still MD in RT1e. You know what they are in RT2e? NOTHING nothing nothing nothing nothing.

[Zer0 Kay]

Okay; any mages who want full speed generation of their MDC magic and Creatures of Magic who want their full MDC may go to ZK's Home Rules version of Robotech Earth. Otherwise, don't expect your magic senses or thaumagauges to register much in the way in the way of high ambient PPE levels if you come to my Home Rules baseline Robotech World(s), unless I'm declaring Alternate Universe. On the plus side, your supernatural strength should allow you to carry some fairly heavy weaponry if you've got the skill to use it.
Any mage or supernatural being who contests that, asserting that the same should apply universally will be taken aside by Global Military Police, beaten soundly with the appropriate instrument of correction(including explosives), and booted through a dimensional rift at the appropriate solstice and nexus point by (censored by the order of the United Earth Government Planetary Security Secrets Act).

OK taal, give me those degrees... or at least slow down and read what your writing. As you state both our rules are house rules because no PB characters can "legally" rift into RT. The stuff from the old conversion books were for RT1e so don't apply anymore.

How does the GMP know about dimensional rifts when no studies have ever been funded in your world? .

One; I'd tell you how the GMP knows about these things, but then I'd have to kill you. Or at least imply that a cigarette -smoking man had something to do with your sudden disappearance.

Two; degree varies by alternate universe, and since there's an infinite number of universes. I'd tell you them all, but I'd insist that you don't get up to use the bathroom, eat, get a drink, or sleep(I, on the other hand, reserve those rights by GM fiat).

Three; I made my reality check. Moving right along.

fair enough... but by accepting an infinite number of universes then it makes room for an RT sufficient PPE levels to support the Regis, Haydon and the FoL and one that shouldn't but still does.

[taalismn]

[fair enough... but by accepting an infinite number of universes then it makes room for an RT sufficient PPE levels to support the Regis, Haydon and the FoL and one that shouldn't but still does.

It also allows for a universe where MDC technology exists but anything with a sufficiently high PPE suffers agonizing pain and tissue deteroration as the PPE interacts badly with the environment....like rapid oxidization(known at extremes as FIRE) or tossing a lighted match into a gas-filled room.
A mage or being of magic would NOT want to Rift into a dimension like that...

[FreelancerMar]

Ok here is the thing.

There are Living MD creatures in RT. That being the case means if a MD creature Rifts into an RT enviornment they should be allowed to keep their MD status and Abilities. Even if it is at diminished capacity. The 2ndE of Robotech basically uses the RUE rules set which closes the book on it as far as I am concearned. High powered Psychic's and Mages would and should be astronomically RARE in an RT enviornment but outright screwing them out of their MD abilities in an MD enviornment should be a big fat NO!!!

However the topic is not Rifts to Robotech but Robotech to rifts which means once the pc is gone it is all over unless the stuff gets retrofited back to being able to use nuclear power plants in the mecha.

[Zer0 Kay]

[fair enough... but by accepting an infinite number of universes then it makes room for an RT sufficient PPE levels to support the Regis, Haydon and the FoL and one that shouldn't but still does.

It also allows for a universe where MDC technology exists but anything with a sufficiently high PPE suffers agonizing pain and tissue deteroration as the PPE interacts badly with the environment....like rapid oxidization(known at extremes as FIRE) or tossing a lighted match into a gas-filled room.
A mage or being of magic would NOT want to Rift into a dimension like that...

It also allows for a universe where any creature of magic that rifts in becomes a toster... "DON'T TOUCH IT IT'S PURE EVIL!!!" Yet another example of a dimension a creature of magic would want to Rift into... but it isn't like they'd know or have time to change their minds... clack, "pop tart anyone?"

[Zer0 Kay]

Ok here is the thing.

There are Living MD creatures in RT. That being the case means if a MD creature Rifts into an RT enviornment they should be allowed to keep their MD status and Abilities. Even if it is at diminished capacity. The 2ndE of Robotech basically uses the RUE rules set which closes the book on it as far as I am concearned. High powered Psychic's and Mages would and should be astronomically RARE in an RT enviornment but outright screwing them out of their MD abilities in an MD enviornment should be a big fat NO!!!

However the topic is not Rifts to Robotech but Robotech to rifts which means once the pc is gone it is all over unless the stuff gets retrofited back to being able to use nuclear power plants in the mecha.

You realize that the Regis, Regent... oops that would be Sentinels, and all Invid are psychics? The RT Masters and some of their clones are also psychics. So not exactly rare... maybe in the human race... but not rare in the dimension.

[FreelancerMar]

@Zer0 Kay

I said "HIGH POWERED" Psychics and MAGES.

Translation Rifts Level Master Psionics and Mages. Basically the LLW or MindMelter level of Mage/Psionic classes which keep their MD damage dealing abailities. Those are the things that should be kept astronomically rare in an RT enviornment.

I went over the Sentinels RPG book again and they use something akin to the 1st edition PFRPG magic system. as in a spells per day thing.(No reason why it cannot be updated to use a PPE setup.)

The big thing that I do not agree with in RT espically in NG is that if it does MD then it absolutely must, no if's ands or but's use and be PC powered thus giving it's position away the very moment it is turned on before it can even be used.

This is not really an issue in the Macross or Southern Cross time periods.

[Zer0 Kay]

@Zer0 Kay

I said "HIGH POWERED" Psychics and MAGES.

Translation Rifts Level Master Psionics and Mages. Basically the LLW or MindMelter level of Mage/Psionic classes which keep their MD damage dealing abailities. Those are the things that should be kept astronomically rare in an RT enviornment.

I went over the Sentinels RPG book again and they use something akin to the 1st edition PFRPG magic system. as in a spells per day thing.(No reason why it cannot be updated to use a PPE setup.)

The big thing that I do not agree with in RT espically in NG is that if it does MD then it absolutely must, no if's ands or but's use and be PC powered thus giving it's position away the very moment it is turned on before it can even be used.

This is not really an issue in the Macross or Southern Cross time periods.

Okay I guess the Regis and Haydon are rare.

Hmm, I thought the "goats" used ISP to power the "Spell like abilities"... guess I was wrong.

But none of the missiles use PC. All of the other weapons are energy so... yeah.

That would be because the Zents and RTM don't use PC detection or rather they don't automatically sense it. I've always thought that it is more like the Nids are able to smell their food, but since it is canned they can only detect it when it is being used.

[TechnoGothic]

You forget that even though the Sentinels aren't canon the Sentinel races still exist they met them and Lisa is an amasador to them. Which means there are still Perytonians and Garudians. The Regis' power according to the game are also ISP based or at least they were in 1E I don't recal 2E. So somehow without visible leylines the energy is strong enough to empower beings of magic to MDC levels. Besides dragons are MDC reguardless of magic levels, in splicers where the world is devoid of PPE Dragons and all other things that were said to be MDC because of the magic energy in Rifts... are still MDC in Splicers. (Sure it doesn't make sense but that is what it says) Technocratic huh? A government based on technology? So playing MDC Creatures of Magic from Rifts as SDC in RT wouldn't be canon, it would be a house rule (even though it makes sense based on their reason for being MDC in the first place).

Umm My Splicers book says Dragons and other creatures of Magic/Supernaturals revert to sdc/ar creatures in SPLICERS. That they use x2 PPE/ISP to power the spells/psionics, and cannot regain lost PPE/ISP once used. They feel Naked and Vulnerable and have a feeling of dread that will not go away. They will use their Dimension Teleport ability to get out of their as soon as they can.

Splicers have created MDC Dragon-like War-Mounts. But they are not True Dragons that are Creatures of Magic.

Dragons become SDC even in Magic Rich worlds such as Palladium Fantasy. Dragons love Palladium fantasy. Splicers's world scares them just being there.

Just a Note. In the Old Sentinels RPG Peryton magic is MegaDamage. So using that as a president, Some MDC beings will have less MDC than they would on Rifts earth but that does not mean that they instantly become SDC the very moment they come to Robotech earth. Robotech is still very much a Mega damage setting in some respects so striping away megadamage abilities would be horrendously unfair to the PC's. However In a Robotech setting, Playing a squishy is not as much as a disadvantage as it would be in a rifts setting.

The Peryton are also native to the environment, evolved up to function in it and explicitly noted as mutants and how their spells can be seen more as spell-like powers than actual magic. So while they exist as beings with MD 'spells' they can't be used as an example of how someone from other dimensions should retain MD capabilities. Someone from Rifts Earth like a Ley Line Walker is dependent on that high ambient PPE to make his magic MD, Robotech really doesn't classify as being anywhere close to even Heroes Unlimited in level, and more around Beyond the Supernatural so doesn't have the foundation to support MD magic.

Which doesn't mean that they can't be effective, there are many spells that are just as useful there as they are anywhere else and wouldn't hurt them to learn to husband their magical resources instead of squandering them because they're too used to ready access to Ley Lines to recharge quickly. No reason they shouldn't be learning to do that just like the guy with the rail gun has to ration his ammo, it'll just help them in the long-term to improve their effectiveness.

Again... prove it. You don't have to have visible leylines to be equivalent of MDC. Phase World and the rest of the three galaxies, Manhunter, Wormwood. Even if the world is entirely dead of PPE like Splicers IIRC the dragons are still MDC.

Again, My Splicer book says Dragons become sdc in Splicers. Its hard for them to use magic or psionics (x2 cost, sdc effects).

[Zer0 Kay]

You forget that even though the Sentinels aren't canon the Sentinel races still exist they met them and Lisa is an amasador to them. Which means there are still Perytonians and Garudians. The Regis' power according to the game are also ISP based or at least they were in 1E I don't recal 2E. So somehow without visible leylines the energy is strong enough to empower beings of magic to MDC levels. Besides dragons are MDC reguardless of magic levels, in splicers where the world is devoid of PPE Dragons and all other things that were said to be MDC because of the magic energy in Rifts... are still MDC in Splicers. (Sure it doesn't make sense but that is what it says) Technocratic huh? A government based on technology? So playing MDC Creatures of Magic from Rifts as SDC in RT wouldn't be canon, it would be a house rule (even though it makes sense based on their reason for being MDC in the first place).

Umm My Splicers book says Dragons and other creatures of Magic/Supernaturals revert to sdc/ar creatures in SPLICERS. That they use x2 PPE/ISP to power the spells/psionics, and cannot regain lost PPE/ISP once used. They feel Naked and Vulnerable and have a feeling of dread that will not go away. They will use their Dimension Teleport ability to get out of their as soon as they can.
Splicers have created MDC Dragon-like War-Mounts. But they are not True Dragons that are Creatures of Magic.

Dragons become SDC even in Magic Rich worlds such as Palladium Fantasy. Dragons love Palladium fantasy. Splicers's world scares them just being there.

Thanks, some how I missed the reduction. PFRPG is NOT magic rich. It is slightly higher than BtS but no where near Rifts or Phaseworld.

Just a Note. In the Old Sentinels RPG Peryton magic is MegaDamage. So using that as a president, Some MDC beings will have less MDC than they would on Rifts earth but that does not mean that they instantly become SDC the very moment they come to Robotech earth. Robotech is still very much a Mega damage setting in some respects so striping away megadamage abilities would be horrendously unfair to the PC's. However In a Robotech setting, Playing a squishy is not as much as a disadvantage as it would be in a rifts setting.

The Peryton are also native to the environment, evolved up to function in it and explicitly noted as mutants and how their spells can be seen more as spell-like powers than actual magic. So while they exist as beings with MD 'spells' they can't be used as an example of how someone from other dimensions should retain MD capabilities. Someone from Rifts Earth like a Ley Line Walker is dependent on that high ambient PPE to make his magic MD, Robotech really doesn't classify as being anywhere close to even Heroes Unlimited in level, and more around Beyond the Supernatural so doesn't have the foundation to support MD magic.

Which doesn't mean that they can't be effective, there are many spells that are just as useful there as they are anywhere else and wouldn't hurt them to learn to husband their magical resources instead of squandering them because they're too used to ready access to Ley Lines to recharge quickly. No reason they shouldn't be learning to do that just like the guy with the rail gun has to ration his ammo, it'll just help them in the long-term to improve their effectiveness.

Again... prove it. You don't have to have visible leylines to be equivalent of MDC. Phase World and the rest of the three galaxies, Manhunter, Wormwood. Even if the world is entirely dead of PPE like Splicers IIRC the dragons are still MDC.

Again, My Splicer book says Dragons become sdc in Splicers. Its hard for them to use magic or psionics (x2 cost, sdc effects).[/quote]
??Yeah... you can't act like your right twice You only brought it up once.

Still Regis, Regent, All Invid but especially Stage 5, Perytonians, Heydon, Guardians, RT Masters, the Children of the SDF-3 and the FoL are the rule NOT the exception that shows that there is mystic energy in RT AND that it is capable of sustaining MDC creatures IF we apply the reason for PB creatures being MDC in Rifts. IF we do not apply the "laws" of the Megaverse to RT (as it is a liscensed product and not really subject to Megaversal laws) then transfering from or to RT is not possible, worse than going through the dimensional walls of Splicers or Nightspawn, it just doesn't exist, it simply isn't in the Megaverse.

[Nightmask]

Still Regis, Regent, All Invid but especially Stage 5, Perytonians, Heydon, Guardians, RT Masters, the Children of the SDF-3 and the FoL are the rule NOT the exception that shows that there is mystic energy in RT AND that it is capable of sustaining MDC creatures IF we apply the reason for PB creatures being MDC in Rifts. IF we do not apply the "laws" of the Megaverse to RT (as it is a liscensed product and not really subject to Megaversal laws) then transfering from or to RT is not possible, worse than going through the dimensional walls of Splicers or Nightspawn, it just doesn't exist, it simply isn't in the Megaverse.

Except those aren't proof of mystic energy in Robotech nor are they proof that the energies/physics of the Robotech universe will anymore support creatures alien to it that require mystic energies and other supportive physics to remain MDC and capable of doing MD. Of which the laws of the megaverse don't preclude someone from entering or existing that particular dimension, they only preclude certain beings and items retaining the same properties that they had outside of it. There's no reason for something like a dragon to remain MDC in Robotech, and 'but they're dragons they shouldn't be vulnerable SDC creatures when the mecha get to be MDC' isn't a valid reason why they should remain MDC. It's as valid as any other reason for a house rule to that effect but hardly a given.

[Zer0 Kay]

The arguement for Dragons remaining MDC is because other creatures of magic, the goats and the cats would be users not creatures of, in the dimension are also MDC and has nothing to do with what Veritechs and other war machines are.

Either way is completely valid as a house rule, but with 2e that is all they are.

I can see both sides of the arguement. Dragons and other creatures of magic don't need to be MDC in RT because they can operate Veritechs and other mecha just like humans can. So is it necessary? No. Would a bunch of critters that walk around with MDC be unballancing? No. So I don't have a real beef either way, it is just that there are more no's than yes' so I'm arguing for the yes side. Which I say again, is pretty pointless since officially all other PB games rifted into RT have a MDC/SDC/HP amount of 0.

[GrampaAllen]

I ran a campaign that merged a couple of our robotech games and put it all into Rifts.
The freedom fighters and and anti masters forces from the return of the masters, got together and launched a reconditioned Zentreadi scout ship in pursuit as the Masters left, with a quick restock and reinforced by moonbase REF they launched for the confrontation on the satellite factory. After the end of the scenario. Their attempt at folding after the invid attack did not turn out as planned.

After the fold they were forced to land after they came under fire from the orbital satelites. It made for a fast paced entry into the story.

We ran it with multiple PCs per player with one "Bridge Crew" per player. It led to some good times, especially since the ranks were inverted aka the player of the captain was the pfc on the recon squad.

[masslegion]

We ran it with multiple PCs per player with one "Bridge Crew" per player. It led to some good times, especially since the ranks were inverted aka the player of the captain was the pfc on the recon squad.

This kind of play sound pretty interesting and sounds like a blast. Where each player has several characters to play in the different settings of a campaign.
1. Bridge officera
2. veritech pilot/ace squad
3. Destroid squads.
4. cyclone squads
etc. etc.

This means the GM can tell a top-down, bottom-up overarching story line. And if one story line has reached a dead end or lull you can pop in on a different story. Almost like you are writing your own complex TV-Series. I wonder how hard this is to pull off.

[ZINO]

well anything new??