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Lenwen wrote:

keir451 wrote:

Lenwen wrote:

keir451 wrote:Alright then how does the mage breathe?

Sustain = 24 hrs per level of the caster ..

keir451 wrote:How long can he be underground and not have air?

depends on the level of the caster .. but at bere minimum .. long enough to get threw the walls of Chi-Town ..

keir451 wrote:He has to be able to speak to cas the spells and he can't do that if he's holding his breath while passing through solid stone.

Sustain completely negates your only argument .. 24 hrs per cast per level of caster .. with out air.

What, specifically, does the spell do? I can't find it in the RUE. If it's in the book of magic, then I don't have that book as I and most of my players) don't use magic or play the Magic O.C.C.s.

sustain = do not need to breath for this instance among other such benefits ..

that is thee only aspect needed tho an will suffice for the mage to get to where he needs to ..

OK, so the mage doesn't need to breathe(among other things). Got it. But if he's not breathing then he's not taking in air so he can't speak. If he can't speak he can't cast the spell. Now once he gets to an area where he can breathe again and there's air with which to carry his voice,THEN he can cast his spell.

keir451 wrote:

Lenwen wrote:

keir451 wrote:

Lenwen wrote:

keir451 wrote:Alright then how does the mage breathe?

Sustain = 24 hrs per level of the caster ..

keir451 wrote:How long can he be underground and not have air?

depends on the level of the caster .. but at bere minimum .. long enough to get threw the walls of Chi-Town ..

keir451 wrote:He has to be able to speak to cas the spells and he can't do that if he's holding his breath while passing through solid stone.

Sustain completely negates your only argument .. 24 hrs per cast per level of caster .. with out air.

What, specifically, does the spell do? I can't find it in the RUE. If it's in the book of magic, then I don't have that book as I and most of my players) don't use magic or play the Magic O.C.C.s.

sustain = do not need to breath for this instance among other such benefits ..

that is thee only aspect needed tho an will suffice for the mage to get to where he needs to ..

OK, so the mage doesn't need to breathe(among other things). Got it. But if he's not breathing then he's not taking in air so he can't speak. If he can't speak he can't cast the spell. Now once he gets to an area where he can breathe again and there's air with which to carry his voice,THEN he can cast his spell.

Wrong. 100% wrong ..

the spell does not say he does not breath .. it says .. he does not need to .. ergo .. is still capable of casting spells ..

That was a good try .. hehe

no, he doesn't NEED to breathe. big difference. he can take in air and expell it, but he no longer needs the oxygen from that air, since the magic sustains him. same thing with food and water (also part of the spell.) for the duration of the spell he does not need to eat or drink, since the magic sustains him..but he can choose to do so anyway.

and last i checked, magic in rifts did not require oral or somatic components. spells can be cast without speaking or fancy movements. the mage just needs to know the spell he wants and concentrate on manipulating magic energy to get it.

but how about his need to use the restroom

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:but how about his need to use the restroom

The NEW spell "Magic Bathroom"!!!! Magically eliminates your need to eliminate waste for a 24 hr period!!

glitterboy2098 wrote:no, he doesn't NEED to breathe. big difference. he can take in air and expell it, but he no longer needs the oxygen from that air, since the magic sustains him. same thing with food and water (also part of the spell.) for the duration of the spell he does not need to eat or drink, since the magic sustains him..but he can choose to do so anyway.

and last i checked, magic in rifts did not require oral or somatic components. spells can be cast without speaking or fancy movements. the mage just needs to know the spell he wants and concentrate on manipulating magic energy to get it.

Yeah last time I checked there wasn't any descriptions of how spell casting functioned in Rifts so I use the D&D standards for lack of anything better. But I do see where you're coming from, I posited the same idea for how magic worked in Chaos Earth days, you wish it and it happens.

keir451 wrote:

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:but how about his need to use the restroom

The NEW spell "Magic Bathroom"!!!! Magically eliminates your need to eliminate waste for a 24 hr period!!

Nope .. its surrounded by Black Vault heavy door style MDC alloy's ..

Its impervious to such magic !!

Lenwen wrote:

keir451 wrote:

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:but how about his need to use the restroom

The NEW spell "Magic Bathroom"!!!! Magically eliminates your need to eliminate waste for a 24 hr period!!

Nope .. its surrounded by Black Vault heavy door style MDC alloy's ..

Its impervious to such magic !!

To what are you referring?

As for how spells are cast; We seem to be in a grey zone, tho' Kevin does not specifically state that all spells are voiced, certain areas of text seem to imply that vocal incantations are used. Specifically in the Rifts rpg, pg. 165, under interrupting a spell caster... "A spell caster can stop reciting a spell in mid-incantation without exepnding any P.P.E or causing any side effect."
That seems to imply the verbal recitiation and incantation of spells, even tho' many (but not all) of the spells don't list a verbal or somatic component. Due to Kevin's repeated use of the word "incantation" in many of the spell description it appears that speaking a spell is required for some spells.
Aslo, Globe of Silence ... "A spell caster, reliant upon spoken incantations, is completely powerless inside a globe of silence because his words cannot be heard." This seems to imply that all spell casters need to speak their spells to cast them, but it's still a grey zone as it's not common throughout the spell descriptions.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/incantation
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/invocation
The terms "invocation" and "incantation" do appear in many of the spells, thus the implication of having to speak the spell aloud to cast it.
The best reference I've been able to find regarding spell casting is on pg. 164 under Spells, Rituals, Summoning, and O.C.C. Powers; ... "Spell magic is spoken incantations that serve as a focus to create/cast magic."

keir451 wrote:

Lenwen wrote:

keir451 wrote:

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:but how about his need to use the restroom

The NEW spell "Magic Bathroom"!!!! Magically eliminates your need to eliminate waste for a 24 hr period!!

Nope .. its surrounded by Black Vault heavy door style MDC alloy's ..

Its impervious to such magic !!

To what are you referring?

The way alotta people on this site think ..

Lenwen wrote:

keir451 wrote:

Lenwen wrote:

keir451 wrote:

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:but how about his need to use the restroom

The NEW spell "Magic Bathroom"!!!! Magically eliminates your need to eliminate waste for a 24 hr period!!

Nope .. its surrounded by Black Vault heavy door style MDC alloy's ..

Its impervious to such magic !!

To what are you referring?

The way alotta people on this site think ..

no its the Super secret elite royal imperial guardian corpsmen warrior-mages of the CS its in Colaition just whipped Traix butt like the chumps they book part 12 are page 679 100th paragraph line 200. not to be confused with the uber guard elite imperial royal corpsmen warrior-mage sercet super guardians that was in WB 50 Wow Lazlo is for losers page 500

the page right after the Uber superb SAMAS Enforcer that has twin quad boom guns

Kevin should've had someone with military experience writing these books...

Arnie100 wrote:Kevin should've had someone with military experience writing these books...

Co-written by someone with extensive magical experience?

Giant2005 wrote:

Arnie100 wrote:Kevin should've had someone with military experience writing these books...

Co-written by someone with extensive magical experience?

Heh, Good one! Kinda hard to find some one with extensive magical experience these days. Tho' a person with a military background or military experience could add something to both sides. In the end it shall be as Kevin wishes it.

Arnie100 wrote:Kevin should've had someone with military experience writing these books...

Or at the VERY .... L E A S T ..


It should be how he plays it .. as he does not even play the magic system as it is .. because its too weak .. he has stated on multiple forums .. that he does not use the magic system in Rifts as it is .. he plays it differently then he has presented it ..

Lenwen wrote:

Arnie100 wrote:Kevin should've had someone with military experience writing these books...

Or at the VERY .... L E A S T ..


It should be how he plays it .. as he does not even play the magic system as it is .. because its too weak .. he has stated on multiple forums .. that he does not use the magic system in Rifts as it is .. he plays it differently then he has presented it ..

I think its funny

Lenwen wrote:

Arnie100 wrote:Kevin should've had someone with military experience writing these books...

Or at the VERY .... L E A S T ..


It should be how he plays it .. as he does not even play the magic system as it is .. because its too weak .. he has stated on multiple forums .. that he does not use the magic system in Rifts as it is .. he plays it differently then he has presented it ..

He has alot of great creative game concepts but when it comes to math and strategy he completely fails. Taking that note, for him to be openly saying how he doesn't even believe or support in the current magic system of Rifts show gross ignorance from the creator and that he has 0 faith in his own system.

This also further shows that the Rifts game needs a updated version to 2.0.

keir451 wrote:As for how spells are cast; We seem to be in a grey zone, tho' Kevin does not specifically state that all spells are voiced, certain areas of text seem to imply that vocal incantations are used. Specifically in the Rifts rpg, pg. 165, under interrupting a spell caster... "A spell caster can stop reciting a spell in mid-incantation without exepnding any P.P.E or causing any side effect."
That seems to imply the verbal recitiation and incantation of spells, even tho' many (but not all) of the spells don't list a verbal or somatic component. Due to Kevin's repeated use of the word "incantation" in many of the spell description it appears that speaking a spell is required for some spells.
Aslo, Globe of Silence ... "A spell caster, reliant upon spoken incantations, is completely powerless inside a globe of silence because his words cannot be heard." This seems to imply that all spell casters need to speak their spells to cast them, but it's still a grey zone as it's not common throughout the spell descriptions.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/incantation
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/invocation
The terms "invocation" and "incantation" do appear in many of the spells, thus the implication of having to speak the spell aloud to cast it.
The best reference I've been able to find regarding spell casting is on pg. 164 under Spells, Rituals, Summoning, and O.C.C. Powers; ... "Spell magic is spoken incantations that serve as a focus to create/cast magic."

One major problem with this though is; that there is so many different types of spellcasters out there and not all of them function in the exact same way, ie dnd casters.

Further to this, when talking about a earth elementalist that has a big focus of operating in the earth, it would be completely counterproductive to make them reliant on a form of spellcasting that doesn't even work with thier design.

Lenwen wrote:It should be how he plays it .. as he does not even play the magic system as it is .. because its too weak .. he has stated on multiple forums .. that he does not use the magic system in Rifts as it is .. he plays it differently then he has presented it ..

you got a reference for that?

edit: misdirected quotation tag =S

Lenwen wrote:It should be how he plays it .. as he does not even play the magic system as it is .. because its too weak .. he has stated on multiple forums .. that he does not use the magic system in Rifts as it is .. he plays it differently then he has presented it ..

KS has never stated magic is too weak. Yes, he tweaks the rules as he sees fit (as any GM would do) but the perceived strength/weakness is not the cause.

Mack wrote:

Lenwen wrote:It should be how he plays it .. as he does not even play the magic system as it is .. because its too weak .. he has stated on multiple forums .. that he does not use the magic system in Rifts as it is .. he plays it differently then he has presented it ..

KS has never stated magic is too weak. Yes, he tweaks the rules as he sees fit (as any GM would do) but the perceived strength/weakness is not the cause.

The point is .. not even the creator of the system .. plays the magic system as its written ..

Lenwen wrote:

Mack wrote:

Lenwen wrote:It should be how he plays it .. as he does not even play the magic system as it is .. because its too weak .. he has stated on multiple forums .. that he does not use the magic system in Rifts as it is .. he plays it differently then he has presented it ..

KS has never stated magic is too weak. Yes, he tweaks the rules as he sees fit (as any GM would do) but the perceived strength/weakness is not the cause.

The point is .. not even the creator of the system .. plays the magic system as its written ..

the magic system may not work for his style of game play, which is canon if you dont like it change it

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:

Lenwen wrote:

Mack wrote:

Lenwen wrote:It should be how he plays it .. as he does not even play the magic system as it is .. because its too weak .. he has stated on multiple forums .. that he does not use the magic system in Rifts as it is .. he plays it differently then he has presented it ..

KS has never stated magic is too weak. Yes, he tweaks the rules as he sees fit (as any GM would do) but the perceived strength/weakness is not the cause.

The point is .. not even the creator of the system .. plays the magic system as its written ..

the magic system may not work for his style of game play, which is canon if you dont like it change it

he's also said (on gateway to the megaverse) that the rules he uses eventually become the rules of the game. so it's not that he doesn't use the rules as written, he's just using his own games for playtesting.

In spite of the fact I like Tolkeen better, I think the correct side won.
I'm not going to get into the plot devices, because Northern Tolkeen would still be standing if I did.
But I will say it should have been more costly for the CS, and they should have had damaged cities and a lot less solid infrastructure for years.

glitterboy2098 wrote:

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:

Lenwen wrote:

Mack wrote:

Lenwen wrote:It should be how he plays it .. as he does not even play the magic system as it is .. because its too weak .. he has stated on multiple forums .. that he does not use the magic system in Rifts as it is .. he plays it differently then he has presented it ..

KS has never stated magic is too weak. Yes, he tweaks the rules as he sees fit (as any GM would do) but the perceived strength/weakness is not the cause.

The point is .. not even the creator of the system .. plays the magic system as its written ..

the magic system may not work for his style of game play, which is canon if you dont like it change it

he's also said (on gateway to the megaverse) that the rules he uses eventually become the rules of the game. so it's not that he doesn't use the rules as written, he's just using his own games for playtesting.

He has stated in a couple books that come to mind (BoM) being one .. that he does not play it as it is set up ..

That book was published how long ago ? Given palladium's track record of putting out books they promised .. and putting in new rules ..

I doubt we see any significant changes to the magic system as it is .. in the next 5-10 yrs .. no matter how long Kevin's been playing it differently .. (no offense big guy)

Lenwen wrote:He has stated in a couple books that come to mind (BoM) being one .. that he does not play it as it is set up ..

That book was published how long ago ? Given palladium's track record of putting out books they promised .. and putting in new rules ..

I doubt we see any significant changes to the magic system as it is .. in the next 5-10 yrs .. no matter how long Kevin's been playing it differently .. (no offense big guy)

hell I'm still waiting on the New mechinoids books

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:

Lenwen wrote:He has stated in a couple books that come to mind (BoM) being one .. that he does not play it as it is set up ..

That book was published how long ago ? Given palladium's track record of putting out books they promised .. and putting in new rules ..

I doubt we see any significant changes to the magic system as it is .. in the next 5-10 yrs .. no matter how long Kevin's been playing it differently .. (no offense big guy)

hell I'm still waiting on the New mechinoids books

I wasn't going to say anything, but... ya.