Damian Magecraft wrote:the only way to "win" at one is to ensure everyone (not just yourself) has fun.
Yes, but you don't see the full implicature of your own statement.
What if the thing that is fun is
winning (and trying to win)?
I'm not arguing you have to run an rpg with such a goal in mind. Though if all your players are excited primarily by winning, but you try to do something else, that'd be making fun just for yourself.
This urge to excise winning even from RPG discussion - look, maybe you try and fend off any winning stuff from getting into your table top game. Okay. But don't try and tell people what to do in general discussion.
Icefalcon wrote:RPG's are designed to be stories. I shouldn't have to tell players that it is the goal to tell a collective one.
If it's so obvious, then why don't they get it? You can either default to A: They are deliberately ignoring it or B: Actually the rules can be seen in two ways, like a
young lady/old lady optical illusion. Look at the book one way, it seems like it's for stories. Look at the book another way, it looks like it's for winning.
It's like saying you shouldn't have to tell players it's a picture of an old lady.
It might be a good idea, until it kills all of the society that relied on that lake for their livelihood. A supposed good character was told that an entire society depended on that lake. He decided to drain it anyway because it offended him. You think I should have rewarded him for that? Not a chance.
Have you sat down with these guys and said 'Hey, if you want to game I expect you to try and adhere to a large degree the way I see various concepts, like being a good character'?
You can dig your heels in with 'Oh, I shouldn't have to tell them'. But I think if telling them would lead to better gaming, this it's just stubborness to not tell them.
Yeah, maybe it breaks some magic circle idea that it's not them adhering to your idea, it's just 'how it is'. But seriously, that's like trying to make people think a RL magic trick actually involves magic. It's even worse if you're actually successful at making them think that.
Fact is, it's your idea of what a 'good' character is, in your example. Adhering to your concept of that isn't that thrilling in and of itself enough that people go 'Oh yeah, THAT's what you do'. Make it clear that if people play, they need to adhere largely to the concept of 'good' (or whatever) that you hold.
Seriously, that's what you expect in play, it's clear from your account (and if stated up front, I think that's a viable thing, I'm not pointing it out to dismiss it) - but
if you can't bring yourself to say it, I say the guy is fine. Atleast he speaks up for what's important to him.
For three, he was only doing it to intentionally screw up the game (by his own admission).
Really, you don't seem to be making a distinction between an example where someone thinks what they'd do is viable, fun gaming (atleast to their own mind) Vs someone who just wants to disrupt the game (like someone screwing around in chess could disrupt a chess game as well).
The former can seem to 'spoil' the game, but in their head its fun gameplay for all. If you don't seperate that good intent from the latters bad intent...no, that's just a dark world.