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Why would the CS even want to bother with the Baronies or Arzno? Neither of them are openly antagonistic toward the CS, while they tolerate magic and D-Bees they aren't militantly pro-Magic and anti-CS in the way that Tolkeen was, and they pose absolutely no threat to the CS at large. They have plenty of other legit threats to worry about, like pacifying Tolkeen territory, the Xiticix, the Calgary rift and the FoM. While they were written as hard-headed Fascists in many of the early books, the events of SoT have shown that while most of the CS brass and leadership are bigoted and bellicose, they're not going to go around smashing smaller kingdoms and absorbing their land simply because they can. Plus, there's always a risk involved when you're dealing with powerful magic and psionics users, as the Sorcerer's Revenge showed. One of the Baronies is ruled by a high-level Mind Melter, and you've got Vampires and huge tribes of Simvan and Psi-Stalkers running around in that area, too. A couple of experienced Shifters would have no problem summoning some otherworldly baddies and watching them take out a whole CS battalion while they sat back and ate sandwiches. As for the CS's nukes, why the hell would they want to lord over conquered territory that's nothing more than smoldering craters? I could see them moving into Kingsdale because it's right there almost on the border of Arkansas, but the CS would have little to gain from messing around the New West, particularly this soon after the Tolkeen War.

FrankSerpico wrote:Why would the CS even want to bother with the Baronies or Arzno? Neither of them are openly antagonistic toward the CS, while they tolerate magic and D-Bees they aren't militantly pro-Magic and anti-CS in the way that Tolkeen was, and they pose absolutely no threat to the CS at large. They have plenty of other legit threats to worry about, like pacifying Tolkeen territory, the Xiticix, the Calgary rift and the FoM. While they were written as hard-headed Fascists in many of the early books, the events of SoT have shown that while most of the CS brass and leadership are bigoted and bellicose, they're not going to go around smashing smaller kingdoms and absorbing their land simply because they can. Plus, there's always a risk involved when you're dealing with powerful magic and psionics users, as the Sorcerer's Revenge showed. One of the Baronies is ruled by a high-level Mind Melter, and you've got Vampires and huge tribes of Simvan and Psi-Stalkers running around in that area, too. A couple of experienced Shifters would have no problem summoning some otherworldly baddies and watching them take out a whole CS battalion while they sat back and ate sandwiches. As for the CS's nukes, why the hell would they want to lord over conquered territory that's nothing more than smoldering craters? I could see them moving into Kingsdale because it's right there almost on the border of Arkansas, but the CS would have little to gain from messing around the New West, particularly this soon after the Tolkeen War.

simple answer the baronies could be sitting on buttload of pre-rifts tech who out knowing it, with number of military bases that were once around Colorado Springs two air force bases, airforce academy, army base and NORAD, so if I'm the leader of the CS, I'm sending at least one brigade to check the area out, with a pre rifts map, compass and a sextant with orders to secure this area and dig, then hire a workforce made up with workers from the burbs to do the heavy lifting, at worse I now have a base outside the CS land, the buried tech is worth too much to risk it falling into the wrong hands namely anyone besides the coalition.

^I think if the CS thought they could take and secure NORAD that easily, they'd have already done it. Mounting and maintaining an operation that size would require a full-scale invasion/occupation force, and running supply lines through an area where you've got a Simvan/Psi-Stalker war going on and Indian tribes capable of producing their own SAMAS who also have magic at their disposal. It would also require diverting much needed troops and resources needed to deal with aforementioned real and legitimate threats like the Xiticix. There's absolutely no logical reason for the CS to expand westward right now.

It is possible and likely that all major known pre rifts military bases have mostly been scouted/looted already by the CS or other forces. There is no particular need to occupy any of them unless you hit the omg jackpot of lonestar with fully intact base. There are probably some super secret bases/caches of equipment to be found but most of the major norad bases likely have been long since looted.

FrankSerpico wrote:^I think if the CS thought they could take and secure NORAD that easily, they'd have already done it. Mounting and maintaining an operation that size would require a full-scale invasion/occupation force, and running supply lines through an area where you've got a Simvan/Psi-Stalker war going on and Indian tribes capable of producing their own SAMAS who also have magic at their disposal. It would also require diverting much needed troops and resources needed to deal with aforementioned real and legitimate threats like the Xiticix. There's absolutely no logical reason for the CS to expand westward right now.

Depending on where the troops are coming from the flight time changes some have 1 1/2 hour flight for CS Missouri and CS Iowa and 2 1/2 hours from CS Chi-town, yup long supply lines for those death head transport, once boots are on the ground, so about time the four transport, the city of testament might see something, but by then a brigade or two are on the ground, so any force coming at it would runs into a number of CS troops. If not just intercepted by helicopters and removed from the planet. Then add in the other assets that coalition might have in the area, only adds to it, sure they might have some problems with the simvans, but then again it's not a problem they can't handle.

kaid wrote:It is possible and likely that all major known pre rifts military bases have mostly been scouted/looted already by the CS or other forces. There is no particular need to occupy any of them unless you hit the omg jackpot of lonestar with fully intact base. There are probably some super secret bases/caches of equipment to be found but most of the major norad bases likely have been long since looted.

True but everything was lefted open ended so it comes down to everyone's opinion on it, some say yes , some say no. But it's up for the gm to decide.

Like I said, if the CS was capable of a smash and grab operation involving NORAD they'd have done it by now. It's more than likely they studied the matter and decided it wasn't worth the effort, and would require a long term occupation with construction crews, engineers and such to get them into NORAD. They aren't going to drop a nuke on it, because that would defeat the purpose and leave them with no pre-Rifts artifacts or anything of value to recover. It's also likely that they lack the technology to interface with computers that are hundreds of years old, and so does everyone else in America. Unless the Splugorth or Naruni develop a sudden interest in NORAD, it's not like they have to worry about anyone else getting their hands on everything stored there.

FrankSerpico wrote:Why would the CS even want to bother with the Baronies or Arzno? Neither of them are openly antagonistic toward the CS, while they tolerate magic and D-Bees they aren't militantly pro-Magic and anti-CS in the way that Tolkeen was, and they pose absolutely no threat to the CS at large. They have plenty of other legit threats to worry about, like pacifying Tolkeen territory, the Xiticix, the Calgary rift and the FoM. While they were written as hard-headed Fascists in many of the early books, the events of SoT have shown that while most of the CS brass and leadership are bigoted and bellicose, they're not going to go around smashing smaller kingdoms and absorbing their land simply because they can. Plus, there's always a risk involved when you're dealing with powerful magic and psionics users, as the Sorcerer's Revenge showed. One of the Baronies is ruled by a high-level Mind Melter, and you've got Vampires and huge tribes of Simvan and Psi-Stalkers running around in that area, too. A couple of experienced Shifters would have no problem summoning some otherworldly baddies and watching them take out a whole CS battalion while they sat back and ate sandwiches. As for the CS's nukes, why the hell would they want to lord over conquered territory that's nothing more than smoldering craters? I could see them moving into Kingsdale because it's right there almost on the border of Arkansas, but the CS would have little to gain from messing around the New West, particularly this soon after the Tolkeen War.

I agree with pretty much all of this.

Also, after some psychics sense an attack, wouldn't it be possible for a shifter to open a rift in the path of a strategic nuke and rift it away to someplace else, like Chi Town? "Hey where'd our missle go?"

FrankSerpico wrote:Like I said, if the CS was capable of a smash and grab operation involving NORAD they'd have done it by now. It's more than likely they studied the matter and decided it wasn't worth the effort, and would require a long term occupation with construction crews, engineers and such to get them into NORAD. They aren't going to drop a nuke on it, because that would defeat the purpose and leave them with no pre-Rifts artifacts or anything of value to recover. It's also likely that they lack the technology to interface with computers that are hundreds of years old, and so does everyone else in America. Unless the Splugorth or Naruni develop a sudden interest in NORAD, it's not like they have to worry about anyone else getting their hands on everything stored there.

more the effort. Psi-Battalion has Psi-Techs that could do the interface. Plus with lonestar..they don't really need to take the risk. And as GM I'd use Norad as a New Republican base..after the attack on their colony they learned very fast to not put all their eggs in on basket. I'd even have Fort Brag or other famous military bases used as bases. Such as Whitesands..though the vamps may make that untenable in the long run.

FrankSerpico wrote:Like I said, if the CS was capable of a smash and grab operation involving NORAD they'd have done it by now. It's more than likely they studied the matter and decided it wasn't worth the effort, and would require a long term occupation with construction crews, engineers and such to get them into NORAD. They aren't going to drop a nuke on it, because that would defeat the purpose and leave them with no pre-Rifts artifacts or anything of value to recover. It's also likely that they lack the technology to interface with computers that are hundreds of years old, and so does everyone else in America. Unless the Splugorth or Naruni develop a sudden interest in NORAD, it's not like they have to worry about anyone else getting their hands on everything stored there.

Having an real possible advance over the other kingdom including ngr, is well worth the risk. the chance of having real time images on the battlefield and communications unseen since ppre-rifts times, and then add the chance of see what other military bases or place that it might be linked too, then it becames a greater prize to outlook or not to secure and leave it for others to find. now imagine what if lone star was found by someone esle then the coalition, imagine the horrors that could have been released.

Jerell wrote:

FrankSerpico wrote:Why would the CS even want to bother with the Baronies or Arzno? Neither of them are openly antagonistic toward the CS, while they tolerate magic and D-Bees they aren't militantly pro-Magic and anti-CS in the way that Tolkeen was, and they pose absolutely no threat to the CS at large. They have plenty of other legit threats to worry about, like pacifying Tolkeen territory, the Xiticix, the Calgary rift and the FoM. While they were written as hard-headed Fascists in many of the early books, the events of SoT have shown that while most of the CS brass and leadership are bigoted and bellicose, they're not going to go around smashing smaller kingdoms and absorbing their land simply because they can. Plus, there's always a risk involved when you're dealing with powerful magic and psionics users, as the Sorcerer's Revenge showed. One of the Baronies is ruled by a high-level Mind Melter, and you've got Vampires and huge tribes of Simvan and Psi-Stalkers running around in that area, too. A couple of experienced Shifters would have no problem summoning some otherworldly baddies and watching them take out a whole CS battalion while they sat back and ate sandwiches. As for the CS's nukes, why the hell would they want to lord over conquered territory that's nothing more than smoldering craters? I could see them moving into Kingsdale because it's right there almost on the border of Arkansas, but the CS would have little to gain from messing around the New West, particularly this soon after the Tolkeen War.

I agree with pretty much all of this.

Also, after some psychics sense an attack, wouldn't it be possible for a shifter to open a rift in the path of a strategic nuke and rift it away to someplace else, like Chi Town? "Hey where'd our missle go?"

well that means you have a mage giving off a free meal sign to every psi-stalker in the region, yeah good luck with that

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:

Jerell wrote:

FrankSerpico wrote:Why would the CS even want to bother with the Baronies or Arzno? Neither of them are openly antagonistic toward the CS, while they tolerate magic and D-Bees they aren't militantly pro-Magic and anti-CS in the way that Tolkeen was, and they pose absolutely no threat to the CS at large. They have plenty of other legit threats to worry about, like pacifying Tolkeen territory, the Xiticix, the Calgary rift and the FoM. While they were written as hard-headed Fascists in many of the early books, the events of SoT have shown that while most of the CS brass and leadership are bigoted and bellicose, they're not going to go around smashing smaller kingdoms and absorbing their land simply because they can. Plus, there's always a risk involved when you're dealing with powerful magic and psionics users, as the Sorcerer's Revenge showed. One of the Baronies is ruled by a high-level Mind Melter, and you've got Vampires and huge tribes of Simvan and Psi-Stalkers running around in that area, too. A couple of experienced Shifters would have no problem summoning some otherworldly baddies and watching them take out a whole CS battalion while they sat back and ate sandwiches. As for the CS's nukes, why the hell would they want to lord over conquered territory that's nothing more than smoldering craters? I could see them moving into Kingsdale because it's right there almost on the border of Arkansas, but the CS would have little to gain from messing around the New West, particularly this soon after the Tolkeen War.

I agree with pretty much all of this.

Also, after some psychics sense an attack, wouldn't it be possible for a shifter to open a rift in the path of a strategic nuke and rift it away to someplace else, like Chi Town? "Hey where'd our missle go?"

well that means you have a mage giving off a free meal sign to every psi-stalker in the region, yeah good luck with that

No offense, but Psi-stalkers are hardly a threat to anyone. Even with the "upgrade" they got from RUE.

--flatline

flatline wrote:

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:

Jerell wrote:

FrankSerpico wrote:Why would the CS even want to bother with the Baronies or Arzno? Neither of them are openly antagonistic toward the CS, while they tolerate magic and D-Bees they aren't militantly pro-Magic and anti-CS in the way that Tolkeen was, and they pose absolutely no threat to the CS at large. They have plenty of other legit threats to worry about, like pacifying Tolkeen territory, the Xiticix, the Calgary rift and the FoM. While they were written as hard-headed Fascists in many of the early books, the events of SoT have shown that while most of the CS brass and leadership are bigoted and bellicose, they're not going to go around smashing smaller kingdoms and absorbing their land simply because they can. Plus, there's always a risk involved when you're dealing with powerful magic and psionics users, as the Sorcerer's Revenge showed. One of the Baronies is ruled by a high-level Mind Melter, and you've got Vampires and huge tribes of Simvan and Psi-Stalkers running around in that area, too. A couple of experienced Shifters would have no problem summoning some otherworldly baddies and watching them take out a whole CS battalion while they sat back and ate sandwiches. As for the CS's nukes, why the hell would they want to lord over conquered territory that's nothing more than smoldering craters? I could see them moving into Kingsdale because it's right there almost on the border of Arkansas, but the CS would have little to gain from messing around the New West, particularly this soon after the Tolkeen War.

I agree with pretty much all of this.

Also, after some psychics sense an attack, wouldn't it be possible for a shifter to open a rift in the path of a strategic nuke and rift it away to someplace else, like Chi Town? "Hey where'd our missle go?"

well that means you have a mage giving off a free meal sign to every psi-stalker in the region, yeah good luck with that

No offense, but Psi-stalkers are hardly a threat to anyone. Even with the "upgrade" they got from RUE.

--flatline

you keep thinking that buddy.

flatline wrote:No offense, but Psi-stalkers are hardly a threat to anyone. Even with the "upgrade" they got from RUE.

--flatline

If by "anyone" you mean...anything with the Temporal descriptor in it's OCC/RCC tag...then i'm inclined to agree with you. However, Psi-Stalkers are generally better than normal humans and their RCC skills aren't even that terrible either. Since they have better stats and psychic powers and can use all the same gear humans can, well, that basically makes them a huge danger. They can also do a lot of the same things other psychics do...like, my game recently lost it's psi-stalker (because another player blew him up by accident...oh man...), but he was one of the strongest and most useful characters in the group.

Sixth Sense, See the Invisible, Astral Projection, Intuitive Combat. With the Psi-Stalker abilities he was basically the ultimate hunter and a pretty damn good assassin too. He made dual vibro-blades surprisingly effective as well.

But that's all besides the point. If a mage is casting his spells and being all oggalie-boogalie and suddenly...a Wild Psi-Stalker appears, he's screwed. He just doesn't know it yet. While he flicks his wrist and throws the poor guy around with magic or sticks him to the ground, or magic nets him or zaps him with a lightning bolt, or turns him into a fish, or etc etc...the others are sneaking up with their can openers and a ravenous hunger.

What makes people think NORAD possesses some great technological advantages that the CS doesn't already have? I believe it's been pretty well established that the CS is either equal to, or better than, the pre-Rifts American Empire when it comes to most facets of military technology. When NORAD was mentioned in Aftermath, it was presented mainly as a huge cache of pre-Rifts artifacts, not some Mindwerks style bunker full of cyborgs and state of the art computers. Unless there's an A.R.C.H.I.E. Three type A.I. entity holed up in there, I seriously doubt the vast majority of NORAD's tech is even operational or useful anymore. Remember, Lone Star was found and secured by the CS relatively early in the P.A. calendar and the CS has been handling its upkeep ever since. NORAD on the other hand has, according to canon, been untouched for hundreds of years with its treasures at the mercy of rust and rot. It's like if some Alien civilization were to come to Earth hundreds of years after Humans nuked themselves out of existence, and found a working ENIAC-era computer. Yeah, it would be cool and interesting but it's not like they're going to have any practical application for the thing.

FrankSerpico wrote:What makes people think NORAD possesses some great technological advantages that the CS doesn't already have? I believe it's been pretty well established that the CS is either equal to, or better than, the pre-Rifts American Empire when it comes to most facets of military technology. When NORAD was mentioned in Aftermath, it was presented mainly as a huge cache of pre-Rifts artifacts, not some Mindwerks style bunker full of cyborgs and state of the art computers. Unless there's an A.R.C.H.I.E. Three type A.I. entity holed up in there, I seriously doubt the vast majority of NORAD's tech is even operational or useful anymore. Remember, Lone Star was found and secured by the CS relatively early in the P.A. calendar and the CS has been handling its upkeep ever since. NORAD on the other hand has, according to canon, been untouched for hundreds of years with its treasures at the mercy of rust and rot. It's like if some Alien civilization were to come to Earth hundreds of years after Humans nuked themselves out of existence, and found a working ENIAC-era computer. Yeah, it would be cool and interesting but it's not like they're going to have any practical application for the thing.

funny NORAD's tech wouldn't be any more alien the lone star's tech and only since 300 yrs have passed and depending on the type of materials used in the new equipment. But hey down play it, could be everything is gone or everything is still there.

FrankSerpico wrote:What makes people think NORAD possesses some great technological advantages that the CS doesn't already have? I believe it's been pretty well established that the CS is either equal to, or better than, the pre-Rifts American Empire when it comes to most facets of military technology. When NORAD was mentioned in Aftermath, it was presented mainly as a huge cache of pre-Rifts artifacts, not some Mindwerks style bunker full of cyborgs and state of the art computers. Unless there's an A.R.C.H.I.E. Three type A.I. entity holed up in there, I seriously doubt the vast majority of NORAD's tech is even operational or useful anymore. Remember, Lone Star was found and secured by the CS relatively early in the P.A. calendar and the CS has been handling its upkeep ever since. NORAD on the other hand has, according to canon, been untouched for hundreds of years with its treasures at the mercy of rust and rot. It's like if some Alien civilization were to come to Earth hundreds of years after Humans nuked themselves out of existence, and found a working ENIAC-era computer. Yeah, it would be cool and interesting but it's not like they're going to have any practical application for the thing.

Ragnarok proofing is fairly common in such settings, so it's quite unlikely that NORAD would be some rusted, wasted wreck with little to nothing of value. It was certainly built to last for ages given what it was intended to be used for, with the technology in question being stuff like the SAMAS that the CS has and has only improved on quite recently (as in just in time for the war against Tolkeen). The CS certainly isn't that far ahead of what was around during the Golden Age of Man, it's a lot more like finding a 1990's car compared to a 2000's car. NORAD would provide someone with some significantly useful technology if found.

^Yeah, but is there really anything there that would be that much of an upgrade from what they've already gathered from Lone Star? I'm still of the opinion that the CS has decided it's not worth the risk, and Westward expansion is the last thing on their mind at this point. Sure, if we just ignore current developments in America and have them operate in a vacuum, they could put a military outpost in the former Colorado Springs and easily deal with any conventional military response from the angry Colorado Baronies. As I've previously stated though, they have much more important things to worry about, and messing around out West just for the hell of it is nothing but detrimental and pointless with regard to the greater CS War Campaign.

Agreed.

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:well that means you have a mage giving off a free meal sign to every psi-stalker in the region, yeah good luck with that

Like man, it's the Colorado baronies, there's all kinds of magic and techno wizard stuff there. City of Hope for example, has a population that is 32% Mystics, and 85% of the city is powered by magic. Ley lines and/or nexuses run right through most of their bigger cities. It's already got the equivalent of a massive "Eat at Joe's" sign as far as psi-stalkers are concerned. A mage or even ah few mages commencin' ta opening a portal on a ley line, I should think, would hardly register as anything more than normal for the region, partner. I'd be much more concerned about disturbin' some gun slinger that might be experiencin' ah hangover.

Jerell wrote:Agreed.

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:well that means you have a mage giving off a free meal sign to every psi-stalker in the region, yeah good luck with that

Like man, it's the Colorado baronies, there's all kinds of magic and techno wizard stuff there. City of Hope for example, has a population that is 32% Mystics, and 85% of the city is powered by magic. Ley lines and/or nexuses run right through most of their bigger cities. It's already got the equivalent of a massive "Eat at Joe's" sign as far as psi-stalkers are concerned. A mage or even ah few mages commencin' ta opening a portal on a ley line, I should think, would hardly register as anything more than normal for the region, partner. I'd be much more concerned about disturbin' some gun slinger that might be experiencin' ah hangover.

And since it has a 2% psi stalker there but like you techno wizard stuff. Just means they know where to go to get a meal, and giving the Wild West feel of it I bet many a Mage have became a meal for psi stalkers in hope

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:

Jerell wrote:Agreed.

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:well that means you have a mage giving off a free meal sign to every psi-stalker in the region, yeah good luck with that

Like man, it's the Colorado baronies, there's all kinds of magic and techno wizard stuff there. City of Hope for example, has a population that is 32% Mystics, and 85% of the city is powered by magic. Ley lines and/or nexuses run right through most of their bigger cities. It's already got the equivalent of a massive "Eat at Joe's" sign as far as psi-stalkers are concerned. A mage or even ah few mages commencin' ta opening a portal on a ley line, I should think, would hardly register as anything more than normal for the region, partner. I'd be much more concerned about disturbin' some gun slinger that might be experiencin' ah hangover.

And since it has a 2% psi stalker there but like you techno wizard stuff. Just means they know where to go to get a meal, and giving the Wild West feel of it I bet many a Mage have became a meal for psi stalkers in hope

I would expect the mages and psi-stalkers to have friendly relations. After all, there's lots of stuff the psi-stalkers can "eat" besides the mages and the psi-stalkers need someone to trade with.

If friendly relations aren't possible, then I would expect the mages to organize and utterly wipe out the psi-stalkers.

--flatline

flatline wrote:

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:

Jerell wrote:Agreed.

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:well that means you have a mage giving off a free meal sign to every psi-stalker in the region, yeah good luck with that

Like man, it's the Colorado baronies, there's all kinds of magic and techno wizard stuff there. City of Hope for example, has a population that is 32% Mystics, and 85% of the city is powered by magic. Ley lines and/or nexuses run right through most of their bigger cities. It's already got the equivalent of a massive "Eat at Joe's" sign as far as psi-stalkers are concerned. A mage or even ah few mages commencin' ta opening a portal on a ley line, I should think, would hardly register as anything more than normal for the region, partner. I'd be much more concerned about disturbin' some gun slinger that might be experiencin' ah hangover.

And since it has a 2% psi stalker there but like you techno wizard stuff. Just means they know where to go to get a meal, and giving the Wild West feel of it I bet many a Mage have became a meal for psi stalkers in hope

I would expect the mages and psi-stalkers to have friendly relations. After all, there's lots of stuff the psi-stalkers can "eat" besides the mages and the psi-stalkers need someone to trade with.

If friendly relations aren't possible, then I would expect the mages to organize and utterly wipe out the psi-stalkers.

--flatline

heck everybody is friendly relations until they try to kill and eat you. You just might a meal that just happened by at wrong time.

FrankSerpico wrote:^Yeah, but is there really anything there that would be that much of an upgrade from what they've already gathered from Lone Star? I'm still of the opinion that the CS has decided it's not worth the risk, and Westward expansion is the last thing on their mind at this point. Sure, if we just ignore current developments in America and have them operate in a vacuum, they could put a military outpost in the former Colorado Springs and easily deal with any conventional military response from the angry Colorado Baronies. As I've previously stated though, they have much more important things to worry about, and messing around out West just for the hell of it is nothing but detrimental and pointless with regard to the greater CS War Campaign.

If the coalition is out west and with numbers means they find something, and they will not be giving it up until it's all gone or destroyed.

FrankSerpico wrote:Like I said, if the CS was capable of a smash and grab operation involving NORAD they'd have done it by now. It's more than likely they studied the matter and decided it wasn't worth the effort, and would require a long term occupation with construction crews, engineers and such to get them into NORAD. They aren't going to drop a nuke on it, because that would defeat the purpose and leave them with no pre-Rifts artifacts or anything of value to recover. It's also likely that they lack the technology to interface with computers that are hundreds of years old, and so does everyone else in America. Unless the Splugorth or Naruni develop a sudden interest in NORAD, it's not like they have to worry about anyone else getting their hands on everything stored there.

In response to the bolded:

I dont see this as being even remotely an issue. There are people and technologies out there still using those hundreds-of-years-old computers - like Glitterboys, which have been unchanged in centuries of use - there are even suits out there that ARE 300+ years old, and people can still utilize/upgrade/repair them....

and the CS has access to Lonestar, which is (ostensibly) using the same tech and computer systems that NORAD would have - the very same tech and computer systems CS tech is based on anyway.

There is a LOT of pre-Rifts tech and computer systems out there that are still in use in 109+ PA Rifts Earth - so i cant imagine that interfacing with any of it is hard, or it wouldnt be possible for basically every major operator under the sun to do so (including the Black Market).

FrankSerpico wrote:^Yeah, but is there really anything there that would be that much of an upgrade from what they've already gathered from Lone Star? I'm still of the opinion that the CS has decided it's not worth the risk, and Westward expansion is the last thing on their mind at this point. Sure, if we just ignore current developments in America and have them operate in a vacuum, they could put a military outpost in the former Colorado Springs and easily deal with any conventional military response from the angry Colorado Baronies. As I've previously stated though, they have much more important things to worry about, and messing around out West just for the hell of it is nothing but detrimental and pointless with regard to the greater CS War Campaign.

OI could see them doing the excavation covertly to get the data and historical information that may be there. but not as a base. and since there presently at war..such a mission would not be on there priorities. That said...Desmond or some other power broker..even Psi-Bat...might try to in an effort to get an edge.

I say Psi-batt because they are not a disposable asset nor are they one that the CS can get rid of. With no mages...they need all the help they can get. even then a covert team might be sent under cover as merc team to get it. would be a fun mission. My more practical side tells me they found a bunch bases and already figured out what info Norad has and buries to prevent problems among the civilians if that history of America and the idea a democratic system came out.
And since they mindwipe the mission and hide the data better than anyone...Well that makes them perfect for covert work.

Kagashi wrote:Personally, I'd like to see the CAN Republic and Freedom Station finally come to blows after battling the Arkhon fleet in a Rifts Space 110 PA update.

Or even another wave of invaders. Perhaps from another clan on their homeworld.

Rimmerdal wrote:

FrankSerpico wrote:^Yeah, but is there really anything there that would be that much of an upgrade from what they've already gathered from Lone Star? I'm still of the opinion that the CS has decided it's not worth the risk, and Westward expansion is the last thing on their mind at this point. Sure, if we just ignore current developments in America and have them operate in a vacuum, they could put a military outpost in the former Colorado Springs and easily deal with any conventional military response from the angry Colorado Baronies. As I've previously stated though, they have much more important things to worry about, and messing around out West just for the hell of it is nothing but detrimental and pointless with regard to the greater CS War Campaign.

OI could see them doing the excavation covertly to get the data and historical information that may be there. but not as a base. and since there presently at war..such a mission would not be on there priorities. That said...Desmond or some other power broker..even Psi-Bat...might try to in an effort to get an edge.

I say Psi-batt because they are not a disposable asset nor are they one that the CS can get rid of. With no mages...they need all the help they can get. even then a covert team might be sent under cover as merc team to get it. would be a fun mission. My more practical side tells me they found a bunch bases and already figured out what info Norad has and buries to prevent problems among the civilians if that history of America and the idea a democratic system came out.
And since they mindwipe the mission and hide the data better than anyone...Well that makes them perfect for covert work.

The CS does have democratic system, remember old Karl was elected to emperor for life, then adds the fact most think of themselves as Americans, and then the 10% of the general population are pro-d-bee which odds are are view like hippies were back in the 50s and 60s. The coalition states is only a darker view of the United States in some ways

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:

Rimmerdal wrote:

FrankSerpico wrote:^Yeah, but is there really anything there that would be that much of an upgrade from what they've already gathered from Lone Star? I'm still of the opinion that the CS has decided it's not worth the risk, and Westward expansion is the last thing on their mind at this point. Sure, if we just ignore current developments in America and have them operate in a vacuum, they could put a military outpost in the former Colorado Springs and easily deal with any conventional military response from the angry Colorado Baronies. As I've previously stated though, they have much more important things to worry about, and messing around out West just for the hell of it is nothing but detrimental and pointless with regard to the greater CS War Campaign.

OI could see them doing the excavation covertly to get the data and historical information that may be there. but not as a base. and since there presently at war..such a mission would not be on there priorities. That said...Desmond or some other power broker..even Psi-Bat...might try to in an effort to get an edge.

I say Psi-batt because they are not a disposable asset nor are they one that the CS can get rid of. With no mages...they need all the help they can get. even then a covert team might be sent under cover as merc team to get it. would be a fun mission. My more practical side tells me they found a bunch bases and already figured out what info Norad has and buries to prevent problems among the civilians if that history of America and the idea a democratic system came out.
And since they mindwipe the mission and hide the data better than anyone...Well that makes them perfect for covert work.

The CS does have democratic system, remember old Karl was elected to emperor for life, then adds the fact most think of themselves as Americans, and then the 10% of the general population are pro-d-bee which odds are are view like hippies were back in the 50s and 60s. The coalition states is only a darker view of the United States in some ways

In Cuba they elect people for life and call that democracy too. Plus democracy usually does not mean for life....What if they wanted to elect a new leader? I'm guessing the opposition that announced the elections would be found the next day dead in dumpster with wounds from "conveniently" stolen CS weapons. So I'd hardly call it true democracy. The CS is what you would call a cuban democracy at best..but that is another thread.

Rimmerdal wrote:

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:

Rimmerdal wrote:

FrankSerpico wrote:^Yeah, but is there really anything there that would be that much of an upgrade from what they've already gathered from Lone Star? I'm still of the opinion that the CS has decided it's not worth the risk, and Westward expansion is the last thing on their mind at this point. Sure, if we just ignore current developments in America and have them operate in a vacuum, they could put a military outpost in the former Colorado Springs and easily deal with any conventional military response from the angry Colorado Baronies. As I've previously stated though, they have much more important things to worry about, and messing around out West just for the hell of it is nothing but detrimental and pointless with regard to the greater CS War Campaign.

OI could see them doing the excavation covertly to get the data and historical information that may be there. but not as a base. and since there presently at war..such a mission would not be on there priorities. That said...Desmond or some other power broker..even Psi-Bat...might try to in an effort to get an edge.

I say Psi-batt because they are not a disposable asset nor are they one that the CS can get rid of. With no mages...they need all the help they can get. even then a covert team might be sent under cover as merc team to get it. would be a fun mission. My more practical side tells me they found a bunch bases and already figured out what info Norad has and buries to prevent problems among the civilians if that history of America and the idea a democratic system came out.
And since they mindwipe the mission and hide the data better than anyone...Well that makes them perfect for covert work.

The CS does have democratic system, remember old Karl was elected to emperor for life, then adds the fact most think of themselves as Americans, and then the 10% of the general population are pro-d-bee which odds are are view like hippies were back in the 50s and 60s. The coalition states is only a darker view of the United States in some ways

In Cuba they elect people for life and call that democracy too. Plus democracy usually does not mean for life....What if they wanted to elect a new leader? I'm guessing the opposition that announced the elections would be found the next day dead in dumpster with wounds from "conveniently" stolen CS weapons. So I'd hardly call it true democracy. The CS is what you would call a cuban democracy at best..but that is another thread.

It's a democracy, I tell you, keep it up and I'll called the secret police on you, and then you can visit one of democracy re-education centers, while they beat democracy into you you commie pinko

Norad has been covered in a rifter. While not 'canon', it's rare that something is presented in the rifter, and at length (Two different full length rifter articles, maybe three, but I clearly remember at least two) and is then totally overwritten in the world books.

Yeah, the Rifter stuff is optional, but it took alot of page count and Palladium seldom just invalidates it. It's happened (Dead Reign) but it doesn't happen often.

Sort of like the multiple articles on Lazlo have me believing that there will be no Lazlo book any time soon, the Stuff on NORAD in the Rifter pretty much precludes it's inclusion in any actual world book.

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:

Rimmerdal wrote:

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:

Rimmerdal wrote:

FrankSerpico wrote:^Yeah, but is there really anything there that would be that much of an upgrade from what they've already gathered from Lone Star? I'm still of the opinion that the CS has decided it's not worth the risk, and Westward expansion is the last thing on their mind at this point. Sure, if we just ignore current developments in America and have them operate in a vacuum, they could put a military outpost in the former Colorado Springs and easily deal with any conventional military response from the angry Colorado Baronies. As I've previously stated though, they have much more important things to worry about, and messing around out West just for the hell of it is nothing but detrimental and pointless with regard to the greater CS War Campaign.

OI could see them doing the excavation covertly to get the data and historical information that may be there. but not as a base. and since there presently at war..such a mission would not be on there priorities. That said...Desmond or some other power broker..even Psi-Bat...might try to in an effort to get an edge.

I say Psi-batt because they are not a disposable asset nor are they one that the CS can get rid of. With no mages...they need all the help they can get. even then a covert team might be sent under cover as merc team to get it. would be a fun mission. My more practical side tells me they found a bunch bases and already figured out what info Norad has and buries to prevent problems among the civilians if that history of America and the idea a democratic system came out.
And since they mindwipe the mission and hide the data better than anyone...Well that makes them perfect for covert work.

The CS does have democratic system, remember old Karl was elected to emperor for life, then adds the fact most think of themselves as Americans, and then the 10% of the general population are pro-d-bee which odds are are view like hippies were back in the 50s and 60s. The coalition states is only a darker view of the United States in some ways

In Cuba they elect people for life and call that democracy too. Plus democracy usually does not mean for life....What if they wanted to elect a new leader? I'm guessing the opposition that announced the elections would be found the next day dead in dumpster with wounds from "conveniently" stolen CS weapons. So I'd hardly call it true democracy. The CS is what you would call a cuban democracy at best..but that is another thread.

It's a democracy, I tell you, keep it up and I'll called the secret police on you, and then you can visit one of democracy re-education centers, while they beat democracy into you you commie pinko

Whatever it is no doubt it will be stoppable by saying the wise ancient words of "Klaatu barada nikto".

Now returning you to your regularly scheduled mayhem.