Forums of the Megaverse®

RainOfSteel wrote:

demos606 wrote:*ALL* Rifts Ultimate Edition printings are hardcover. There is *NO* softcover for this book.

Yes, I know. I never said otherwise.

(1) "Limited" Edition Gold
(2) "Unlimited" Edition, with picture...

Both are Hardcover...as i said to the other poster.
no softcover version.

Arelius222 wrote:I noticed they didnt list the Juicer skills.

Can you please clarify?

When I check the Juicer OCC, it's skills are listed.

RainOfSteel wrote:

Arelius222 wrote:I noticed they didnt list the Juicer skills.

Can you please clarify?

When I check the Juicer OCC, it's skills are listed.

I think he's refereing to the juicer skills that appeared in Juicer Uprising. All the bloodsports such as Murderball and the like.

Swift-13 wrote:Heheh...and the good ole Coalition C-27 Plasma Cannon still has the best range *ever* for a hand-held weapon...

488 km!

They probably meant 0.488km since 1 kilometer = 3280.8399 feet

I too agree that there is a discrepancy between the Juicer and Crazy OCC's in regards to the auto-dodge bonuses, and the omission of the PP bonus and minimum. Especially since it specifically states under the Crazy OCC that nine times out of ten juicers are superior to crazies.

I also caught the whole "SDC listed under OCC" thing and had hoped that they had altered it to this format. Alas, my hopes were dashed when I began reading through the OCC's.

When I didn't see the Trap/Mine construction skill, I thought maybe they had combined it with the Trap/Mine detection skill... nope, just left out. Although you would think, if someone was skilled in constructing these traps then they would almost certainly know what to look for when in the wild. I also feel that this should give a slight bonus to perception, because I've been told that after the military teaches you how to spot such things you look at your surroundings very differently (and give them much more scrutiny). Of course, I also belive that certain bionics and cybernetics should give bonuses to perception (enhanced senses), yet neither the borg nor headhunter get them.

Under the spell Ballistic Fire (pg. 212) it states that the spell only uses up a single spell attack. However it then lists in parenthesis that it takes approximately 7 seconds. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that half a melee (i.e. half of the caster's attacks)?

I agree that there are discrepancies with the ammo capacity and the listed weight and dimensions for the suit and ammo drum. However, in game context, the thousand round ammo capacity makes more sense. I mean, these suits were supposed to have lasted through the Dark Ages. That's 200 years of brutal conditions and I'm pretty sure re-supplies were few and far in-between. Do they need such a high ammo capacity now? Probably not, since the suits are more easily supplied and serviced now. However, the payload does make sense when you consider the history of the suit.

Just a couple of little typos, but anyway: (underlined for convenience)

Page 98, second paragraph, last sentence: ...and traverse the wilderness without leaving a leaving a trace that he was there.

Also, page 103, under the description of clattering trees: ...and other than a few leaves and TWigs, nothing breaks off.

That's all for now, more as I finish reading the book.

This is what I've accumulated so far in my reading. Some entries are repeats from other posts in other topics (thank you), and I am listing them here.

Some of these entries may arise from an imperfect understanding on my part . . . remember that.

--------------------------------

p.2 para.9: "Fusionist" is listed. I'm guessing that should have been "Elemental Fusionist".

p.2 para.9: "Grey Man" is listed twice.

p.3, under "Additional Text and Ideas:" A serial comma appears after "Trent Ward". PB usually doesn't use the serial comma.

p.3, under "Special Thank to:", para.2: A serial comma appears after "Julius Rosenstein". PB usually doesn't use the serial comma.

p.46 col.1 para.3: Out of Order Text Arrangement: Lasts until p.47 col.1 para.6; as of para.7, the text arrangement begins normally again.

p.102 col.1 para.5: Fire/Water Protective Field: "This is a natural, instinctive defense mechanism that clicks on at the first instance of potential danger." The phrase "First instance of potential danger" is not a combat term as far as I know, and exactly what is meant by it is unclear, and how it works in combat is open to many interpretations.

p.115 col.1 para.3 "Note; Ley Line Phasing [...]" A semi-colon was used where a colon should be.

p.131 col.2 para.4 under "10. P.P.E. Storage." mentions two spells, Energy Sphere and Talisman, that are not actually in RUE.

p.186 col.1 para.7: "different spell" should have been "different spells".

p.186 col.1 para.8: "Draining P.P.E from an unwilling subject is difficult." It says, "The unwilling participant must first be made aware of the mages intentions," This seems to say that if a participant is unaware of the mage's intentions, the participant is safe and PPE cannot be drawn out. Is that correct? There is no case where PPE can be drawn from those who are unaware of it?

p.186 col.1 para.10: "This is where human and animal sacrifices come into play." It says: "For reasons unknown, a living being's P.P.E. doubles at death." Then, further down, it says: "Only animals of a certain size have enough P.P.E. to make their sacrifice worthwhile." The second statement appears to contradict the first by restricting sacrifices for P.P.E. to "Only animals of a certain size [...]", and then has specific PPE amounts by animal size class without indicating whether the amounts are an animal's base PPE, or the doubled PPE amount retrieved by the sacrifice. Needs a slight re-wording to distinguish between the classes of being's being worked on, and whether the amounts listed for animals are base PPE before death or doubled PPE acquired during death.

p.186 col.2 para.3: "A matrix of Potential Psychic Energy [...]" PPE has been abbreviated many times before and after this on this page, but is fully spelled out here.

p.186 col.2 para.3: "[...] nexus points -- the energy is at its greatest. These P.P.E. intersections are where Rifts can be opened.." This appears, quite reasonably, to restrict rift formation to actual nexus points. Refer to p.193 col.1 para.4: A chance is given for a rift to open on a ley line. P.193 col2. para.7: A chance is given for a rift to open anywhere. The phrase on p.186 noted above needs an extension, "[...], in most circumstances (see p.193)."

p.258 col.1 para.21: C-27 Heavy Plasma Cannon: "Effective Range: 1600 ft (488 km)."

p.340 col.1 para.6: "As always, a roll o 1-4 misses." An apparent printing difficulty, the "f" after the "o" appears to have been partially printed. Other comments on FotM indicate that this error occured in more than one copy.

I know I'm reiterating stuff, please be patient, but I JUST got my own copy of R:UE last night and have now confirmed much of what is in these posts.

*sigh* Okay...I thought that the list of FUBAR's and SNAFU's was only going to be a small one.
I was wrong!
Okay, off the bat...The Juicer P.P.p omission (which has been posted and re-posted ad-naseum), which had me rubbing my eyes and going over & over the OCC description until I just gave up.
Secondly, while reading this thread, I found out about the lack of starting SDC for characters. For a new player into Rifts, this would have them ripping their hair out.
Okay, I know space constarints, the material is "out there" in another book, etc etc etc... but really...leaving ALL the cybernetics & bio systems out? No excuse!

Fortunately (for me) I still have the original FIRST EDITION FIRST PRINTING of 'Rifts' so I can fill in the gaps, but honestly I pity the poor 'NOOB just getting into the game. My advice to them (and please pass the word) is for them to forgo grabbing the book for themsleves, and wait untill the second print run (which hopefully will adress these gross errors), or for them to talk to a vetren Rifts player / GM and get any blanks filled in on a crib sheet from the old RMB. Damn shame really, because it IS a decent book; it's just that R:UE will make any newcommer want to beat their heads against a wall (or more likely: the staff at PBook's heads) in furstration!

DhAkael wrote:Secondly, while reading this thread, I found out about the lack of starting SDC for characters.

Check RUE p.287 col.1 para.1: "Each O.C.C. should indicate how many S.D.C. points a character gets. In the event it does not, the character starts out with 2d6+12 S.D.C. [...]"

I had been really looking forward to this, but I won't be picking this edition up with all these errors. Can anyone at Palladium confirm if there will be a revision printing that will clean up at least most of those errors?

RainOfSteel wrote:

DhAkael wrote:Secondly, while reading this thread, I found out about the lack of starting SDC for characters.

Check RUE p.287 col.1 para.1: "Each O.C.C. should indicate how many S.D.C. points a character gets. In the event it does not, the character starts out with 2d6+12 S.D.C. [...]"

So if what you are saying is true, then most men at arms are now effeminate gimps.
I refuse to believe that a Head-hunter, Merc, or Cyber-Knight has the same SDC as a Body-fixer or Vagabond.

DhAkael wrote:

RainOfSteel wrote:

DhAkael wrote:Secondly, while reading this thread, I found out about the lack of starting SDC for characters.

Check RUE p.287 col.1 para.1: "Each O.C.C. should indicate how many S.D.C. points a character gets. In the event it does not, the character starts out with 2d6+12 S.D.C. [...]"

So if what you are saying is true, then most men at arms are now effeminate gimps.
I refuse to believe that a Head-hunter, Merc, or Cyber-Knight has the same SDC as a Body-fixer or Vagabond.

Why? If they are all human they all could have roughly the same physical characteristics.

DhAkael wrote:

RainOfSteel wrote:

DhAkael wrote:Secondly, while reading this thread, I found out about the lack of starting SDC for characters.

Check RUE p.287 col.1 para.1: "Each O.C.C. should indicate how many S.D.C. points a character gets. In the event it does not, the character starts out with 2d6+12 S.D.C. [...]"

So if what you are saying is true, then most men at arms are now effeminate gimps.
I refuse to believe that a Head-hunter, Merc, or Cyber-Knight has the same SDC as a Body-fixer or Vagabond.

Headhunter SDC Bonus: +3d6 (plus bionics/cybernetics)
Merc SDC Bonus: None*
Cyber-Knight SDC Bonus: +1d4 x 10

Body-Fixer SDC Bonus: +1d6 + 4
Vagabond SDC Bonus: +2d6 + 10**


*It seems out of place for the Merc soldier to have no bonuses at all. I'll probably house-rule that one.
**It seems somewhat out of place for the Vagabond to get more than the Headhunter (except for the binoics/cybernetics advantage the Headhunter has). I'm thinking of tossing the Vagabond a scavenging special ability and perhaps a contacts special ability. Or maybe I'll just make a different OCC . . . hmm . . .

DhAkael wrote:

RainOfSteel wrote:

DhAkael wrote:Secondly, while reading this thread, I found out about the lack of starting SDC for characters.

Check RUE p.287 col.1 para.1: "Each O.C.C. should indicate how many S.D.C. points a character gets. In the event it does not, the character starts out with 2d6+12 S.D.C. [...]"

So if what you are saying is true, then most men at arms are now effeminate gimps.
I refuse to believe that a Head-hunter, Merc, or Cyber-Knight has the same SDC as a Body-fixer or Vagabond.

The HH, Merc, and CK should get some extra SDC from Physical skills, making them different from Body-Fixers, etc.

(Note - I haven't seen R:UE yet.)

Maxis Lithium wrote: Suggested house rule on missiles: Given that most missles will not have a bonous to strike (SRMs, MRMs & LRMs arenow mostly unguided, and recieve no bonous) I am suggesting that a player be allowed to tae an action to roll his Weapons Systems skill, allowing him his heavy weapons, or Energy heavy weapons (which ever the GM feel aproperate to large missiles) proficency bonous. This represents adjusting for wind speed, angle & pitch, leading the target and so on. In the Navy, Submariens do it. It's called calculating a "targeting solution."

Additionally, with regards to unuided and guided missiles. Do unguided missiles benifit from the +1 to strike from Weapon systems? What about the general +1 to stroke from Robots and power armour targeting systems? Do guided missiles recieve these bonouses?

Yeah..noticed the whole 'most missiles have no bonus to strike' thang.
Um..I call dren on that new tweek. Unless I am actualy running a Pre-CS-rules-the-world campaign, logic dictates that any society able to create full-conversion BIONCS, humaniform 20ft. tall combat robots, and nano-bots, should have the most BASIC heat seeking or laser-guidance system for their rockets!!!!
If people wanna be rules lawyers...fine...all misssiles are only 10% of list cost, as they are now equivalent to a childs' model rocket with a grenade duct-taped to the front. [/b]

Maxis Lithium wrote:Dispite listing enhanced senses including better hearing and sent, and telling us that their senses make it easier for them to pick up on things, the DOG BOY has NO bonous to perception.

Incorrect. Look at the breed bonuses to find the perception bonuses.

Okay, a couple more things. First of all, NONE of the power armors have an MDC value listed for their arms, legs, hands, or feet. I found a few more discrepancies as follows:

Pg. 212-213, the description of the spell Invisibility Superior states: The magic is broken only if the character makes a hostile move, or engages in combat/attacks. However, this doesn't agree with the note on page 203 under Invisibility Simple: Aggressive action (including combat) will NOT terminate and Invisibility spell (either Simple or Superior). I think this is a case of errata being added and the original description not being fixed. However, a newbie will not be able to accurately discern which is right.

Under the description of kickboxing, it states that the character with the skill will have taken a year or so of casual instruction. It just seems that this should be on the list of acceptable secondary skills if that is the case. Also, the skill Outdoorsmanship seems to suggest that it is a personal interest, perhaps even a hobby. Another for the secondary skills list if you ask me.

On page 259, there is no payload listed for the Neural Mace. The stats for Vibro-blades also do not state how long they can operate on a given power source. We also didn't get a ruling as to whether or not it works on supernatural creatures.

On page 236, the illustration labels the new Special Forces armor as "Old Style".

Pg. 109, I notice the cover art for the Adventure Sourcebook made it into the color art section. I always wondered what was up with the "sawed-off" laser rifle.

More to come, I've got about 50 pages to go (and I can't seem to locate a couple of the typos I previously found).

Warwolf wrote:

Maxis Lithium wrote:Dispite listing enhanced senses including better hearing and sent, and telling us that their senses make it easier for them to pick up on things, the DOG BOY has NO bonous to perception.

Incorrect. Look at the breed bonuses to find the perception bonuses.

Okay, a couple more things. First of all, NONE of the power armors have an MDC value listed for their arms, legs, hands, or feet. I found a few more discrepancies as follows:

Pg. 212-213, the description of the spell Invisibility Superior states: The magic is broken only if the character makes a hostile move, or engages in combat/attacks. However, this doesn't agree with the note on page 203 under Invisibility Simple: Aggressive action (including combat) will NOT terminate and Invisibility spell (either Simple or Superior). I think this is a case of errata being added and the original description not being fixed. However, a newbie will not be able to accurately discern which is right.

Under the description of kickboxing, it states that the character with the skill will have taken a year or so of casual instruction. It just seems that this should be on the list of acceptable secondary skills if that is the case. Also, the skill Outdoorsmanship seems to suggest that it is a personal interest, perhaps even a hobby. Another for the secondary skills list if you ask me.

On page 259, there is no payload listed for the Neural Mace. The stats for Vibro-blades also do not state how long they can operate on a given power source. We also didn't get a ruling as to whether or not it works on supernatural creatures.

On page 236, the illustration labels the new Special Forces armor as "Old Style".

Pg. 109, I notice the cover art for the Adventure Sourcebook made it into the color art section. I always wondered what was up with the "sawed-off" laser rifle.

More to come, I've got about 50 pages to go (and I can't seem to locate a couple of the typos I previously found).

Keep digging...you'll find far too many to list in one posting, I assure you

Oh, another thing that struck me as odd was that they added the skill Naval Tactics. And yet, they didn't even import the Military Strategy skill from Nightbane. What's up with that?

Warwolf wrote:Under the description of kickboxing, it states that the character with the skill will have taken a year or so of casual instruction. It just seems that this should be on the list of acceptable secondary skills if that is the case.

The key word here is "instruction." Secondary Skills are learned independently without any kind of instruction, save what one might read in a book or see in a video (and no, you can not learn to fight effectively from action movies ).

DhAkael wrote:

Warwolf wrote:

Maxis Lithium wrote:Dispite listing enhanced senses including better hearing and sent, and telling us that their senses make it easier for them to pick up on things, the DOG BOY has NO bonous to perception.

Incorrect. Look at the breed bonuses to find the perception bonuses.

Okay, a couple more things. First of all, NONE of the power armors have an MDC value listed for their arms, legs, hands, or feet. I found a few more discrepancies as follows:

Pg. 212-213, the description of the spell Invisibility Superior states: The magic is broken only if the character makes a hostile move, or engages in combat/attacks. However, this doesn't agree with the note on page 203 under Invisibility Simple: Aggressive action (including combat) will NOT terminate and Invisibility spell (either Simple or Superior). I think this is a case of errata being added and the original description not being fixed. However, a newbie will not be able to accurately discern which is right.

Under the description of kickboxing, it states that the character with the skill will have taken a year or so of casual instruction. It just seems that this should be on the list of acceptable secondary skills if that is the case. Also, the skill Outdoorsmanship seems to suggest that it is a personal interest, perhaps even a hobby. Another for the secondary skills list if you ask me.

On page 259, there is no payload listed for the Neural Mace. The stats for Vibro-blades also do not state how long they can operate on a given power source. We also didn't get a ruling as to whether or not it works on supernatural creatures.

On page 236, the illustration labels the new Special Forces armor as "Old Style".

Pg. 109, I notice the cover art for the Adventure Sourcebook made it into the color art section. I always wondered what was up with the "sawed-off" laser rifle.

More to come, I've got about 50 pages to go (and I can't seem to locate a couple of the typos I previously found).

Keep digging...you'll find far too many to list in one posting, I assure you

...
Just a few things
- Superior Invis has ALWAYS not worked if you attacked someone or had a hostile intent
- Invis simple always did allow you to attack while invisible
- Vibro weapons were never given duration in a rifts book.
- kickboxing isn't a secondary skill because it, like boxing grants a boatload of bonuses.
- A lot of the errata people are pointing out are not errata, just Whines.

Gomen_Nagai wrote:

DhAkael wrote:

Warwolf wrote:

Maxis Lithium wrote:Dispite listing enhanced senses including better hearing and sent, and telling us that their senses make it easier for them to pick up on things, the DOG BOY has NO bonous to perception.

Incorrect. Look at the breed bonuses to find the perception bonuses.

Okay, a couple more things. First of all, NONE of the power armors have an MDC value listed for their arms, legs, hands, or feet. I found a few more discrepancies as follows:

Pg. 212-213, the description of the spell Invisibility Superior states: The magic is broken only if the character makes a hostile move, or engages in combat/attacks. However, this doesn't agree with the note on page 203 under Invisibility Simple: Aggressive action (including combat) will NOT terminate and Invisibility spell (either Simple or Superior). I think this is a case of errata being added and the original description not being fixed. However, a newbie will not be able to accurately discern which is right.

Under the description of kickboxing, it states that the character with the skill will have taken a year or so of casual instruction. It just seems that this should be on the list of acceptable secondary skills if that is the case. Also, the skill Outdoorsmanship seems to suggest that it is a personal interest, perhaps even a hobby. Another for the secondary skills list if you ask me.

On page 259, there is no payload listed for the Neural Mace. The stats for Vibro-blades also do not state how long they can operate on a given power source. We also didn't get a ruling as to whether or not it works on supernatural creatures.

On page 236, the illustration labels the new Special Forces armor as "Old Style".

Pg. 109, I notice the cover art for the Adventure Sourcebook made it into the color art section. I always wondered what was up with the "sawed-off" laser rifle.

More to come, I've got about 50 pages to go (and I can't seem to locate a couple of the typos I previously found).

Keep digging...you'll find far too many to list in one posting, I assure you

...
Just a few things
- Superior Invis has ALWAYS not worked if you attacked someone or had a hostile intent
- Invis simple always did allow you to attack while invisible
- Vibro weapons were never given duration in a rifts book.
- kickboxing isn't a secondary skill because it, like boxing grants a boatload of bonuses.
- A lot of the errata people are pointing out are not errata, just Whines.

A few other things:

The Dog Boy has huge perception bouns +5 listed under the psychic bonuses, and another bonus per breed (a wolf has another +3 to perception for a total of +8 )

The problem Gomen isn't that invis simple did allow you to attack, but that the new description for invis:simple also states that you can attack with invis:superior and remain invisible, but that the description of invis:superior has says exactly the opposite.

EDIT: to turn +8) into +8 )

Gomen_Nagai wrote:- A lot of the errata people are pointing out are not errata, just Whines.

On this topic, that category has been a rarity.

I noted that the Anti Magic Cloud Spells is not SO vague as people here make it out


it states "

Magical beings who are caught in it are turned into SDC Beings if they fail their save " ... and if they MAKE their save they are half mdc.

it implies 1:1 MDC reduction, not like universal balance.

In the Psionics Category, TK acceleration attack is now a super psionic

Electrokinesis, Super TK , PyroKinesis now Do MD attacks, with super TK now getting a damage bonus of 1d4 Md per 100 lbs with MDC materials.
making it do 2d4x10 MD per ton ( not really an issue with Most mind melters, but dragons, intelligences, and NEO humans are now really dangerous.)


the New Dragons... lot weaker then the old ones, Differing abiliies in combat too.

Fusionists... WAY too powerful for their PPE .. Fire Storm lets them summon 6 - 6d6 Firebolts for just 6 ppe. that's 36 to 204 MD attacks at 6th level for 6 PPE!
and at that level, he has 300 MDC for 10 PPE!
fusionists are now combat monsters ...

(and they get to have warlock spells as well, makes them really dangerous )

As for the SDC issue, I'm going to assume that all Fighter OCCS get 1d4 x10 SDc and all the others get 2d6+12, As that makes more sense.


Skills: I was looking at them, Lots of stuff straight off BTS 2, This book is missing lots of equipment, USB1 looks like it'll be a MANDATORY expansion for this one.

I 'll guess we will need to Errata the fusionists from KS's mouth ...

Tinker Dragoon wrote:The key word here is "instruction." Secondary Skills are learned independently without any kind of instruction, save what one might read in a book or see in a video (and no, you can not learn to fight effectively from action movies ).

Eh, I guess I just see things differently. I somewhat beg to differ on that last bit though. I picked up basic martial arts form from action movies when I was little, and if nothing else the kick practice kept me flexible enough to be able to perform certain kicks when I got older. Granted, I have had a few pointers over the years from teachers (and others with "experience" in that subject), but most of my fighting style is self-taught. Oh, and I've been able to fair rather well in sparring matches against "trained" practitioners, and am quite frequently asked what martial art I trained in. But then again, there is an exception to every rule... maybe I am one.

Vibro weapons were never given duration in a rifts book.

I realize this. However, this is supposed to give players all the basic info they need to play the game. I feel players shouldn't have to guess at a prevalent weapon type's payload. No whines here, just things that I felt should be different (within reason of course).

Warwolf wrote:

Tinker Dragoon wrote:Vibro weapons were never given duration in a rifts book.

I realize this. However, this is supposed to give players all the basic info they need to play the game. I feel players shouldn't have to guess at a prevalent weapon type's payload. No whines here, just things that I felt should be different (within reason of course).

As far as I'm concerned it has no payload limit.
Playability should take precedence over realism at times and this is one of those times. Keeping track of "ammo" for a knife is a waste of time.

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Warwolf wrote:

Tinker Dragoon wrote:Vibro weapons were never given duration in a rifts book.

I realize this. However, this is supposed to give players all the basic info they need to play the game. I feel players shouldn't have to guess at a prevalent weapon type's payload. No whines here, just things that I felt should be different (within reason of course).

As far as I'm concerned it has no payload limit.
Playability should take precedence over realism at times and this is one of those times. Keeping track of "ammo" for a knife is a waste of time.

Due to my questions on this onthe Q&A board and the replies I got back, I believe that it's best to use the vibro weapons in Merc Ops as the basis for the knife's payload. The most similar one in that book had a one hour payload per mini-e-clip, so I say go with that.

Tenchi Jeff wrote:Vibro blades have no payload?

wow. Next time I play I am gonna get an Operator or someone to get my NG-P7 hooked up to a vibro blade as a power supply!

Then... I will get a Titan Combat Robot, and mount TWO NG-P7 rifles on it and connect them to the targeting systems and have them fire linked!

Having no effective payload doesn't mean having as much energy as you want.
A trickle of water that never runs out still won't have enough power to run a mill.

Dark Brandon wrote:Overlooking Crazies and Juicers, at 15th level crazies are better at auto-dodging than Juicers (With min stat requirements).

I think (But could be wrong) Juicers are missing a +1 at 15th level (which would put juicers and crazies on par with each other in the auto-dodging department).

In straight bonuses that might be true, but I think it was already pointed out that the Juicer PP bonus was excluded? So their bonus (with stats included) should be better than a Crazy's. Which would make sense. Juicers rely on pure speed (stats) more than they do training.

Kalinda wrote:I'm pretty sure this is an error, and it's kind of funny too.

In the Robot Pilot OCC, the PA pilot gets 2 suits of PA, but no other form of transport, meaning he has no way to carry his PA except to wear one and lug the other around on his back.

Meanwhile the Robot Pilot gets a giant robot plus another form of transport (car, hovercraft, hovercycle or the like.) Meaning that he has to leave one or the other behind when he goes anywhere. (or use the bot to carry the car around...)

I'm pretty sure that the note under Robot Pilot that mentions the extra transport was suppose to go under PA pilot. Either that or PA pilot was suppose to have a similar note, but it got left out.

Or they just assume that the Robot/PA pilot will have some sort of 'home base' where they can leave their extra vehicle or PA. *shrug*

GMastEr wrote:Just a few of the changes / omissions that I noticed:

- The Cyber-Doc doesn't get Bioware Mechanics or Cybernetic Medicine... the OCC does get M.D in Cybernetics - a skill that does not appear to be in the book (and has obviously been replaced by Cybernetic Medicine).

thats simply a silly oversite no doubt

- Full Conversion Borgs are now 'effectively' MDC beings and are immune to attacks that do damage direct to Hit Points. Guess that answers what Phase weapons do to Borgs now, hmm?

I will be ignoring this rule

- Standard body armour has been changed. Gladiator is now less mobile, with -10% to physical skills. However, the major change is to Crusader. No longer is it the ultimate stealth king with no penalty to physical skills, it has been raised to -15%. Of course, the main body MDC has been raised a massive 40 points to 95!!! It seems like Crusader is now the king of defence, and if you want stealth, you want Urban Warrior.

they could have left it alone but I'm ok with the change

- The Sky King, TR-002 and TR-003 have been removed entirely. I hope the stats will be reprinted in "Ultimate Sourcebook 1".

Probably not

- What does Teleport Dodge actually do? The description lists it as "giving a small bonus to dodge and teleport for combat purposes only", yet the description only lists it as giving +X. Does this add to standard dodge bonuses? Is it a separate type of dodge, like auto-dodge? Does it use an action?

I'd rule that it uses normal dodge bonuses plus the special bonus and you can teleport dodge directly behind your attacker and get in a sneak attack that they (unless they're a juicer) cannot dodge...And Yes the T-port does use an action.

Basara_549 wrote:

General_Sarkoff wrote:Yes but can you name a SINGLE vehicle whose ammo weighs 83% of the vehicles unloaded weight?

Most self-propelled artillery units, where they carry a certain number of shots onboard, then have specialized OTHER vehicles traveling with them to supplythe rest of that single vehicle's ammo.

And, almost all ground attack aircraft have a fully loaded takeoff weight twice that of their empty weight - su much that they have to take off on low fuel, and refuel after takeoff, JUST TO GET INTO THE AIR.

I think it's possible that we have another easy to fix typo here. Perhaps they meant to say that each round of ammo weighs .2 lbs? That would put their maximum payload weighing in at 200 lbs, which I think is alot more reasonable.

Also, considering the world of high tech, light weight alloys, I can't see why their rounds would weigh in at a whole 2 lbs each. They must have misplaced a decimal point.

Problem solved.

Danger wrote:

Basara_549 wrote:

General_Sarkoff wrote:Yes but can you name a SINGLE vehicle whose ammo weighs 83% of the vehicles unloaded weight?

Most self-propelled artillery units, where they carry a certain number of shots onboard, then have specialized OTHER vehicles traveling with them to supplythe rest of that single vehicle's ammo.

And, almost all ground attack aircraft have a fully loaded takeoff weight twice that of their empty weight - su much that they have to take off on low fuel, and refuel after takeoff, JUST TO GET INTO THE AIR.

I think it's possible that we have another easy to fix typo here. Perhaps they meant to say that each round of ammo weighs .2 lbs? That would put their maximum payload weighing in at 200 lbs, which I think is alot more reasonable.

Also, considering the world of high tech, light weight alloys, I can't see why their rounds would weigh in at a whole 2 lbs each. They must have misplaced a decimal point.

Problem solved.

No way IMO ...here is why:

1 pound = 16 ounces
.2 pound = 3.2 ounces
Conservitive assumption that .2 ounces is the casing and other internal stuff (high tech light weight alloys you wrote of) leaving 3 ounces for the actual 200 projectiles.
3 / 200 = .015 of an ounce per "flechette"
1 ounce = 437.5 grains
.015 x 437.5 grains per ounce = 6.56 grains per "flechette"
Pretty light (too light I would think) for a round that is capable of doing about 1 MD for each flechette that strikes the target....according to this the energy is 15,443 foot-pounds for a 6.56 grain bullet at 32556 fps. That is a lot of energy coming from a small projectile I'm not sure it would constitute 1 MD....though I could be wrong on this point....though I know the math is correct for the rest of it.

Tenchi Jeff wrote:Found one!


Page 329, the following W.P.'s, Energy Pistol, Energy Rifle, and Mega-Damage Weapons. There is not any W.P. Bonuses listed for these.

Definately a typo, however you can find the new (and yes, changed) bonuses to strike with these weapons on Page: 360 Under "Traditional Guns & Energy Weapons"

Also, hand to hand: Commando has very changed ALOT (no more auto flip, no more critical throw, and Headhunters and Crazies (but not Juicers?) can take it. (Not that ANYONE outside the Coalition should ever be able to get HTH Command, fricken Gunslingers&Fighters)
Also as a typo (I think?) in hand to hand commando, it doesnt list WHEN you get auto dodge (it was lvl 5) but it says at level 5 you get +2 to auto dodge. Interesting typo

As in my previous post, I pointed out changes to HTH Commando.

Looks like ALL hand to hand skills have had changes.

For your benefit, I will type alot now

HTH BASIC CHANGES


Old:

Lvl 3 - Kick attack does 1D6

Lvl 5 - +1 Strike


NEW:

Lvl 3 - Kick attack does 1D8

Lvl 5 - +1 Strike and Disarm


HTH EXPERT CHANGES

Old:

Lvl 1 - 2 (4) attacks to start, +2 pull punch, +2 roll with impact,

lvl 2 - +3 parry and dodge

lvl 3 - +2 strike

lvl 5 - kick attack 1D6

lvl 7 - Paired Weapons

lvl 9 - +1 attack

NEW:

Lvl 1 - Same except they get a 1D8 Kick attack

lvl 2- Same with +1 to pull punch

lvl 3 - same with +2 disarm and gains karate punch

lvl 5 - The "kick attack" which you now have at lvl 1 and that does more damage, becomes karate kick for 2D6

Lvl 7- Same and you get a "backhand strike" that does 1d4. What is even the point of this?

lvl 9- Same with +1 disarm

It just occured to me I may get in trouble for printing out all the changes to the book here, so I'll stop at this point, but I encourage everyone to double check all the new HTH skills. ALOT has changed and well, some of it doesnt make a damn bit of sense.

My FAVORITE random change EVER tho is in HTH Assassin

Lvl 15 (new) +1 to strike with guns

Now, THAT is random

Also, considering these HTH skills have been the same thru ALL the games for years (as far as I know) making this many changes to them now (esp without saying openly) could cause alot of problems for some of the older settings. Just my opinion....and bring back the old HTH Commando!

GMastEr wrote:Just a few of the changes / omissions that I noticed:

- The Sky King, TR-002 and TR-003 have been removed entirely. I hope the stats will be reprinted in "Ultimate Sourcebook 1".

I think the Sky King is still in there (I know I seen the old pic next to a set of Stats) along with the Big Boss and Mountaineer ATV. Check the book again. I'll look when I get home for Page Numbers.

Here's a good one that we found last night.

Is it correct in the books, that Dragons get so few skills? Seems a little odd to me. Not only that, but it creates a problem:

One of the Dragons (I forget which one, I didn't find this; my roomie did.) is stating as preferring martial arts fighting techniques. Guess what? Dragons can't take Martial Arts! All they get are Secondary Skills, and you can only take H2H Basic with Secondary Skills.

Oops!

Danger wrote:Here's a good one that we found last night.

Is it correct in the books, that Dragons get so few skills? Seems a little odd to me. Not only that, but it creates a problem:

One of the Dragons (I forget which one, I didn't find this; my roomie did.) is stating as preferring martial arts fighting techniques. Guess what? Dragons can't take Martial Arts! All they get are Secondary Skills, and you can only take H2H Basic with Secondary Skills.

Oops!

They prefer martial arts fighting techniques... they just don't really know many...
But they do yell "Hiah!" a lot when using their HTH: Basic...

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Danger wrote:Here's a good one that we found last night.

Is it correct in the books, that Dragons get so few skills? Seems a little odd to me. Not only that, but it creates a problem:

One of the Dragons (I forget which one, I didn't find this; my roomie did.) is stating as preferring martial arts fighting techniques. Guess what? Dragons can't take Martial Arts! All they get are Secondary Skills, and you can only take H2H Basic with Secondary Skills.

Oops!

They prefer martial arts fighting techniques... they just don't really know many...
But they do yell "Hiah!" a lot when using their HTH: Basic...

I think we made a similar joke last night after my roomie found that.

Here's one that first showed up in Splicers and still hasn't been corrected.

Under W.P. Forked it lists "tiger fork" as a small weapon (and equates it with a sai).

Here's some comparative pictures to help clear up that problem.

Sai

Tiger Fork

The damage should be on par, if not better than the damage of a trident.

Takilong wrote:

Dustin Fireblade wrote:

TechnoGothic wrote:

Adam of the Old Kingdom wrote:kind of make some of the inspiration for the free quebec books reload occ redundant.

1000 rounds wont last long in a real battle though.
100 rounds is not enough ammo for a PA like a GB to be really effective either...


BTW, is just the GB-USA-10 Glitterboy detailed in the Ultimate book or do they include the FQ models too ??

Just the original. Honestly though I found 100 rounds to be more than enough to get the job done.

I'm curious, could someone check the Chaos Earth book GB and see how many rounds it has listed?

Rifts main book 12th printing pg 223 the GB is listed as having a payload of 1000 rounds and i checked with my friends except for the oldest manual we have (not shure on print ing as that page is missing) it is 1000 rounds for the GB. Also this is a fantasy game what does reality have to do with it? unless you have met a dogboy recently it is not real so gust relax and have fun.

Chaos Earth lists Chromium Guardsmen armor having a payload of 1,000 rounds

RevRifts wrote:Has anyone else noticed the absence of the spell Time Slip?? I assume this is a mistaken omission, yet I looked for it specifically after the new spell casting changes. This spell has become much more powerful now that a mage can disappear for a melee and come back having equipped himself with 2-3 spells without anyone getting a chance to retaliate.

First where did you see that it is a full melee? I always thought it was only 7 sec/HALF a melee...

So what happened to the spell Time Slip?? Its not even in the Invocations by Level listing, but it is listed as appearing in the Book of Magic on pg. 227 of RUE.

That was in England at first then the BoM as well as the main book....this could just be a space saver.... who knows. Its still availble in the BoM and England so just cus it missing in RUE doesn't mean you cant use it still

Here's some errata I found while browsing earlier today.

-------------------------------

p.282 col.2 under "Penalties For Low Attributes", and p.283 col.1: The stat-ranges for IQ are written in an upwards range, 7-8, 5-6. But for all the other stats that follow, the ranges are written in a downwards range, 7, 6, or 5; 6 or 5, etc.

p.283 col.1 para.2: "can only learn the simplest of skills". The available/restricted skills are not noted.

p.283 col.1 para.5: Interrogation is noted as having a -20% penalty for the MA 4-3 level, and immediately after is noted as having a -30% penalty, also on the MA 4-3 level. (It isn't possible to tell whether this is meant to be combined, or if one of the listings is in error.)

This may have been mentioned but page 258 under C-27 Plasma cannnon...Range: 1600ft. (488km)....

The spell "Ballistic Fire" says it takes half a melee (aprox. 7 seconds) to cast. Is this a re-print error or the way it's supposed to be?

grandmaster z0b wrote:The spell "Ballistic Fire" says it takes half a melee (aprox. 7 seconds) to cast. Is this a re-print error or the way it's supposed to be?

Yeah, see one of my previous posts about that one.

Here's another one for you:

Another copy/paste error: In the description of both Hand to Hand: Basic and Expert the note at the bottom states that basic combat training allows the character to use certain basic moves. This note goes on to list Body Flip/Throw as one of those moves that characters with this training can use off the bat. However, if one reads on you find that both HTH skills obtain Body Flip/Throw at level 8 (the exact same maneuver they are supposed to start with). So which is it?

Warwolf wrote:

grandmaster z0b wrote:The spell "Ballistic Fire" says it takes half a melee (aprox. 7 seconds) to cast. Is this a re-print error or the way it's supposed to be?

Yeah, see one of my previous posts about that one.

Here's another one for you:

Another copy/paste error: In the description of both Hand to Hand: Basic and Expert the note at the bottom states that basic combat training allows the character to use certain basic moves. This note goes on to list Body Flip/Throw as one of those moves that characters with this training can use off the bat. However, if one reads on you find that both HTH skills obtain Body Flip/Throw at level 8 (the exact same maneuver they are supposed to start with). So which is it?

Maybe at first they can do it but the person lands back on their feet and takes no damage , or maybe at first they can do it but it does no damage but does give the knockdown "lose next action" aspect, or maybe....ah who the **** cares!...I quit!

GMastEr wrote:

ApocalypseZero wrote:I think the Sky King is still in there (I know I seen the old pic next to a set of Stats) along with the Big Boss and Mountaineer ATV. Check the book again. I'll look when I get home for Page Numbers.

The Sky King definitely isn't there. There are a couple of references to it in the book, and I believe a couple appear in the tiny picture for Dweomer [ pp. 38 ].

With reference to Ballistic Fire, the same can be said for Electric Arc. Now that magic is quicker to cast, the spell is entirely useless, given the existence of Firebolt at the same level (it has double the damage and strike bonus, triple the range and costs 1 PPE less). The only use would be as an offensive spell against beings immune to fire.

I'd halve the PPE cost and make it a Level 3 spell.

Uh... no.

Faster spellcasting makes Fire Bolt more useful, but Electric Arc is not rendered useless.
A Fire Bolt does 4d6 MD for 7 PPE.
An Electric Arc does 2d6 MD per attack for one melee.

A character with 4 attacks per melee can cast Fire Bolt 4 times, for a total of 16d6 MD and 28 PPE.
A character with 4 attacks per melee can cast Electric Arc once, and dish out a total of 6d6 MD for 8 PPE.
Sure, Fire Bolt cast 4 times does drastically more damage, but if you are low on PPE or are up against lesser foes then Electric Arc is still extremely useful.

Of course, the more attacks the mage has the more useful this is.

Killer Cyborg wrote:Faster spellcasting makes Fire Bolt more useful, but Electric Arc is not rendered useless.
A Fire Bolt does 4d6 MD for 7 PPE.
An Electric Arc does 2d6 MD per attack for one melee.

A character with 4 attacks per melee can cast Fire Bolt 4 times, for a total of 16d6 MD and 28 PPE.
A character with 4 attacks per melee can cast Electric Arc once, and dish out a total of 6d6 MD for 8 PPE.

Wait, something is not adding up here. 2d6/attack x 4 attacks = 8d6 MD for 8PPE.

When I read Electric Arc, though, it makes no sense at all.

RUE p.204 Electric Arc: For someone with four attacks, it says "This means a character with four attacks per melee round uses up two attacks to cast the spell, leaving him with two electrical attacks possible that melee round". <-- This contradicts RUE p.189 col.1 under "3. Time it takes to cast a spell."

My reading of the rules says: 4 attacks = Spell cast, followed by an electric blast, followed by 3 more electric blasts.

Separating out the spell casting from the blasts is not indicated, and would not be similar to how other spells work.

RainOfSteel wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:Faster spellcasting makes Fire Bolt more useful, but Electric Arc is not rendered useless.
A Fire Bolt does 4d6 MD for 7 PPE.
An Electric Arc does 2d6 MD per attack for one melee.

A character with 4 attacks per melee can cast Fire Bolt 4 times, for a total of 16d6 MD and 28 PPE.
A character with 4 attacks per melee can cast Electric Arc once, and dish out a total of 6d6 MD for 8 PPE.

Wait, something is not adding up here. 2d6/attack x 4 attacks = 8d6 MD for 8PPE.

When I read Electric Arc, though, it makes no sense at all.

RUE p.204 Electric Arc: For someone with four attacks, it says "This means a character with four attacks per melee round uses up two attacks to cast the spell, leaving him with two electrical attacks possible that melee round". <-- This contradicts RUE p.189 col.1 under "3. Time it takes to cast a spell."

My reading of the rules says: 4 attacks = Spell cast, followed by an electric blast, followed by 3 more electric blasts.

Separating out the spell casting from the blasts is not indicated, and would not be similar to how other spells work.

They neglected to rewrite that spell when they upgraded the spellcasting rules.
So it would currently be 1 attack to cast, and 3 blasts afterward (if the character had 4 attacks).

Killer Cyborg wrote:They neglected to rewrite that spell when they upgraded the spellcasting rules.
So it would currently be 1 attack to cast, and 3 blasts afterward (if the character had 4 attacks).

I disagree.

By sticking to your position, and evenly applying that position to other direct-fire attack spells, then Firebolt would take 1 attack to cast, and another attack to send flying at someone. The same would go with all other direct-fire attack spells, at least AFAIC.

I'll have Electric Arc would like all other attack spells instead of as a special exception.